Naz_Nomad

Stamina is more useful than DC, but don't drop DC completely. With three bad guys round you, it gets your endurance to full and damages them to boot.

My attack chain is shadow punch/air auperiority/smite/maul. I don't use the tentacle thing, tried it, respecced it out. Same with Touch of Fear, though I may respec that back in again. I also never use taunt, but thats a personal preference, I know a lot of scrappers love their taunts. Every person who has taken the DM powerset has a different opinion on it and virtually everybody has taken and dropped different powers. I suggest playing with it and respeccing when you aren't happy. One piece of advice I do stick to though is that the first three attacks in the set can form the basis of a very effective attack chain and often as shadow punch is dropped by many, I suggest you take it at level 1 and use it. In the early levels it can be very frustrating waiting for the other attacks to recharge and SP makes a nice gap-filler until it's slotted and does damage that is useful.

Soul Drain is a very useful power but IMHO is more useful in teams than solo, so it can be partially dependant on your playstyle. I use it a lot on teams as an opening attack on groups of bad guys and love it. Solo, the groups of bad guys are generally smaller so it has less use, not entirely useless though because a gang of three or more can give a nice boost. As solo play tends to be at your own pace, then you are less often required to have huge attacks with smaller groups of villains and the chance to rest/regen when needed and hence less need for a massive boost to attacks. Thats my opinion anyway, I find I use it less solo than in teams. It's always nice to be able to hit harder though... any time.

I think for a team tank, then yes, taunt is a fairly vital power, not compulsary by any means but can be important. Everyone in CoH has a job to do on a team, and the tank's is to hold aggro. For a solo tank, taunt is less vital but can be useful as a pull. So my answer is... yes... and no.

You are taking the mickey right?

And while I think about it - Am I right in saying that Chilling Embrace only holds the attention of mobs for a limited time before they scatter? There have been a few times now whilst playing with CE to see how it works that the bad guys have all turned and run simultaneously, despite any damage my attacks may have done to them in the mean time.

Well, Venery has been duly created and has had two sessions so far, both fairly short due to limited time whilst working nights.

She is level 6 (and a bit) and has the following powers...

Level 1 - Frozen Armour + Scorch
Level 2 - Chilling Embrace
Level 4 - Combustion
Level 6 - Hoarfrost

I played in a PUG from levels 4 to 6 and had problems with a /energy blapper who insisted he had to run in and use that damn punchy/push thingy on the tank's targets (two tanks in the team, me and an invul). I decided the best tactic when this sort of attack was preferred was to switch targets myself and concentrate on holding aggro from the remaining bad guys. Let the blapper have fun with the guy he just pushed out of my Chilling Embrace, no longer my problem til taunt comes around. I did ask him to stop, more than once.

Combustion is a funny old attack for someone used to scrapping. OK, I like its AoE, quite large for a low-level attack, probably wider than CE. Therefore, using punchvoke, it holds aggro reasonably well. BUT... it's a slow recharge, way too slow to rely as a main attack without recharge being heavily enhanced. It is also quite light on damage 7 + 1/tick for about 6 ticks vs white mobs. Obviously this will change once DO's kick in, but I see my self struggling solo.

Therefore, perhaps a slight change to my build plan would be in order. I was thinking of taking Air Superiority at 8, Wet Ice at 10, Taunt at 12, to give one more attacking option for solo play in the earlier levels. Thoughts?

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Can you feel our pain? Some of us have to put up with this on Coalition chat... a LOT...

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Took me longer to make sense of the original post than it took to read the whole of the rest of the thread. You have my most profound sympathies.

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The first heavy mezzer I encountered was Frostfire. Only CoT bosses mez AFAIK. I got Wet Ice at 6 and Hoarforst at 8 and I don't think I needed Wet Ice between 6 and 8.

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A good point, I was thinking along the lines of the stolen jewel mission, which is a very early CoT cave mission with a named mage at the end - can't remember what type he was though. Also the Perez hunt 10 CoT thing. I wasn't really intending to go to the Hollows until after 10, prefering KR missions instead.

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Seems like a good power choice selection. It leaves 16, 18 and 20 to get the fitness pool.

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Doesn't Glacial armour slip in there at 18? If so, stamina may have to wait until 22.

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You may want to swap Air Superiority and Taunt around depending if you feel you are needing Taunt or not. I did get it and 10 but I like corner pulling and for you Air Superiority seems a pretty useful power for making bosses less dangerous. You should have no problems keeping the majority of aggro in melee with just CE, taunt is for regaining any lost aggro or initiating combat.

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Taunt is also for pulling in those pesky cave missions where groups stand too close to charge in without aggroing a second group and getting overwhelmed. This can be a problem especially if solo.

Air Superiority is a fantastic attack for the knockdown effect - it also recharges quite fast and with luck can keep a boss or lt on their backsides throughout a fight. My level 41 scrapper still has it as part of her attack chain, and with flying being my travel power of choice, it seems a logical choice for a tank too.

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Defence buffs TOs hardly make any difference.

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I tend to avoid actually buying TO's, preferring to save cash for DO's as soon as they are available. I slot what drops if it is immediately useful, and do tend to concentrate mainly on end reds and accuracy in preference to anything else.

Thank you for the advice, very much appreciated and I am hoping that with a bit of guidance this will actually be a succesful tank capable of team and solo play.

The attacks I was having great trouble planning, especially having specialised in scrappers and blasters these last 18 months, where getting another attack is vital!!! Must... hit... bad... guy... one... more... time... So thank you very much for the advice on that.

I am going to have to ask about wet ice though - with a magic origin I will be fighting CoT fairly early on. Wouldn't wet ice be better taken earlier rather than later? Though I suppose 8 isn't really all that late, thinking about it.

Level 1 - Frozen Armour + Scorch
Level 2 - Chilling Embrace? (I am at work - is this available at 2?)
Level 4 - Combustion
Level 6 - Hoarfrost
Level 8 - Wet Ice
Level 10 - Taunt
Level 12 - Air Superiority
Level 14 - Fly

How's that for a start? Slotting will focus primarily on defences, attacks getting an acc and a damage each, defences an end rec plus however many defence buffs I can fit in.

For everyone's information, she will be called Venery and will be starting on Union on the evening of 3rd May UK time. Any help very much appreciated should you run across her.

Now if she's going to look stylish, then that might well be the one! I was looking at the various powersets earlier today, fiddling around. Stone and Ice seemed the most attractive primaries for a mainly-solo-but-still-wants-to-team tank, and either fire or ss for a secondary.

Apart from the usual slotting end recs and taking stamina, anybody out there got any advice for the endurance issues a solo tank seems to suffer in my somewhat limited experience pre-20? ie. which powers can be not bothered with until later, which toggles to run and not run based on fire/ice?

With fire as a secondary, is scorch enough to see me through the first ten levels or so solo while I build defences or will I be needing a fire sword and/or combusion?

With Ice, I am presuming that frozen armour, hoarfrost, chilling embrace and wet ice are all more or less compulsary to be an effective tank? Permafrost seems quite meh, icicles a bit love-or-hate.

You are forgiven, but must worship at the Church of Alice more often in future!

When I first started scrapping, I used to swear by Flurry. I used to just LOVE Shadow Maul followed by Flurry - two attacks with similar animations and lots of little damage numbers coming out of the bad guy's head. However.... Flurry is a pool power, and these should IMHO always be considered supplimentary to your primary and secondary powersets rather than relying on them instead of powers taken from your main powers. The exception to this is obviously your travel power, for which there isn't an equivalent in a primary or secondary powerset.

Other pool powers that are often quoted as being almost compulsary are stamina and hasten. It is possible to be a very succesful hero without either of these, but there are going to be times later in your Co* experience when you curse and swear because you haven't taken them. Stamina comes from the fitness pool and can be taken at level 20 after 2 of hurdle, swift and heath. It increases your endurance regeneration and is the answer to a LOT of endurance problems for many heroes. It is ideally slotted with three endurance modifier enhancements.

Hasten comes from the speed pool and can be taken at level 6. It has the useful effect of increasing your recharge times for its duration. However, the downside of it is that your endurance still gets used at the same rate by your powers, which are of course recharging faster. For a scrapper though, this does kind of mean you can hit bad guys faster and more often, which is about as good as it gets for a scrapper. It is a particularly useful power to activate when fighting elite bosses and AV's when damage per minute/second can be very important and sppeding up your attacks can make the fight go a little faster. Don't forget that along with the blaster, a scrapper is the main damage source for most teams. Hasten is ideally slotted with three recharge reduction enhancements as it is often important to get it going again once its duration runs out.

Another important consideration in your build is how you prioritise the enhancement slots in your powers. For my own personal preference, every attack in my main attack chain has an endurance reducer in it. Every toggle that I have to run has endurance reducers in it (up to 3) The less endurance any power uses keeps you fighting that little bit longer, keeps your toggles up a bit longer and means you can squeeze in just one more attack if needed. An important consideration is that although your hit points go up with your level, your endurance never increases without accolades such as the Atlas Medallion. So, at level 50 you will have the same endurance running ten toggles (perhaps), and using ten different attacks (perhaps), as you had doing the tutorial with one toggle and one attack. Reducing your endurance drain is an important consideration as you progress through the levels.

Hope this helps.

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Anyway, for my money if she's inventing the stuff herself that would be Tech, buying/requistioning/stealing it is Natural.

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Bugrit, you beat me to exactly what I was going to say! This is the reasoning I use for a hero or villain with natural origin, otherwise how can you rationalise "super-powers" with a natural origin other than perhaps Archery, Katana, Assault Rifle, Broadsword and MA? Secondaries are even more problematical to explain using a natural origin apart from archery (again) and devices. It's possible to explain away some powers with the use of a stolen/borrowed/donated/sponsored suit of techno armour type thing, but then you're straying quite strongly into the arena of a technology/science background, even though the hero may be a natural. The choice and rationalisation of an origin is one of the most difficult areas for a role-player. No wonder there are so many heroes running round with no background bio.

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But Marilyn Manson? Little Alice Cooper Junior?

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Marilyn Manson, an Alice Cooper Junior??

Thats like comparing God to erm.... someone who isn't. Alice Rocks, Marilyn sucks. Take that literally.

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And sappers are wussies when you got rooted running, gives huge drain-resist

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Sappers are wussies anyway - Rooted or not. My dark/inv scrapper loves Matla, excellent xp, and little danger. All you need for sappers IMHO is Air superiority and a good amount of fast damage, Shadow Maul and Smite take care of a sapper easily. By the time they stand up after Air Sup, they are ready to drop dead anyway.

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My philosophy of tanking:
First on the Battle Field.
Last to leave.
Leave no one behind.
Death before dishonour.



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Strange that, apart from the first one, thats how my Empath works - ALWAYS last to leave a mission. Yes, argued the "after you/no after you" thing with the team tank many a time and always won!

I agree - I spent a LOT of time scrapping my way through the PvP zones from lev 38 onwards when I had a gap in contacts. Players jumping like a bugger out of and into combat was an eye opener. My tongue-in-cheek reply was because I had never really considered the slotting to that extent.

A silly question probably... can you enhance jump enough to take damage from a "flat" jump? ie one going from level ground to level ground? Probably not, but.... just interested. I'm a flier not a jumper.

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(08) --> Combat Jumping==> Jump(8) Jump(42) Jump(43)
12) --> Hurdle==> Jump(12) Jump(42) Jump(42)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14)

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You really really want to be able to jump tall buildings in a single bound don't you?

Personally, I quite like your build, but I play scrappers, so don't take me seriously at all! (until it's the scrapper survives the team wipe........ again!!)

OK, I have tried tanks, over and over. I actually played one all the way to level 14 once, but have always always ended up deleting them.

Why? Because of time differences and a real life, I have irregular playing hours and often end up playing solo and my tanks have never seemed to suit my mainly solo style. Instead I have gone along the route of scrappers and blasters - easily the best solo classes IMHO.

But....

I am still determined to conquer the Tank AT, at least until the thirties. Most other AT's I have managed to a lesser or greater extent. My target for my Tank is level 34 before possible deletion! (highest level deletion so far is 27 and that was a dark/dark scrapper after I4 or 5, ages ago anyway, due to some long forgotten nerf that meant I needed to change the whole build from the ground)

So what Tank powersets to take? All the guides here and on the US forums are pretty good, every power set very attractive, and all the powersets seem to have good and bad points, but which combination of powers do you tanky-types think would suit an often-solo-but-likes-to-team player?

Looking for something that is fun to play, able to easily solo, fits reasonably easily into a team and looks damn good. It's always important when heroing, looking good - otherwise the citizens don't take enough time to admire the good work you are doing.

Any advice is more than welcome.

Cheers folks.

PS - the Tank will be a female toon,about 5' tall and a red head (it's a theme, all my toons fit this description) and stone armour really plays havoc with hair-styles, so if you suggest stone as a primary, then please also suggest the most suitable hair-styles. Thank you.

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Meteorologist
Arc name:- Find out why Nemesis is Concerned with the Weather
Lv 40 - 44
Mish name:- Defeat all foes in weather lab (6th mish in the arc)
Obtained from contacts... Technology: Maxwell Christopher



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I have Maxwell Christopher as an unused contact and a spare mission slot, currently level 40. You can send a /t to Ennil Pwysau or @lady wren.

I am on New Zealand time, which is GMT+12 at the moment, so early evening for you is the next morning for me....

I will be free my tuesday morning from about 7 am, so monday night 7pm in the UK would be a good time. I can clear the first couple or four missions by then too so we can get straight down to it.

Cheers,

Ennil Pwysau, the most famous and succesful scrapper in Paragon

(PS, SHE [Ennil] wrote that bit in, not me!! - Hawklord)

Ah... For Ennil Pwysau, modestly claiming to be "The most famous and succesful Scrapper in Paragon..." it would have to be:- Forward to Death by the Dead Kennedys

For Scrapper Girl, my Brute who wants to be a scrapper but can't find the ferry to Paragon... Am I Evil? by Diamond Head

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Oh and avoid Siphon Life its pants.

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I have a level 40 DM/Inv and use Siphon Life fairly regularly. It's useful, it heals 250 damage at 40 with 3 SO's. Not bad, and not as slow as some people seem to make out. I like it.

DM gives a good three-attack chain at low levels with punch, smite and maul and this will be your bread and butter til you hit 50. After picking up these three attacks, the rest of the powers are up to you and your own play style. Personally, I don't use Touch of Fear or Provoke and have respecced out Midnight Grasp. I find that I can easily cope with pretty much anything with the three attacks in DM, Air Superiority which is great for leaving mobs on their [censored] while you beat their hp away. For large groups, soul drain is a fantastic power and should be made compulsary for all scrappers.

BS I find a fairly one-sided set. As people have mentioned several times already, lethal damage is easily resisted and you'll find times when opponents you'd expect to defeat easily have that annoying slither of health after your attack chain which allows them to get that last attack back at you. Animations are long and recharges are slow. Still, it does a shed load of damage!

Your choice.