Naufragus

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[quoteNot to mention the farmers in an attempt to get back what they want will probably 0 star anything they don't think will be farmable.

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we dont rate... and we especially dont rate great missions becuase uptight folks like the OP might get wind of them

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Thats the crux of your bad attitude. No one wants to play your little mission.

[/ QUOTE ]This thread is for constructive feedback, we want to include you in our discussion.

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no its not its just you [censored] because other people dont play like you do.

There is no problem other than you thinking everyone needs to suffer slowly thru 50 levels the gave already done numerous times so you somehow feel validated.

No everyone wants the same game you do. Some even <GASP> prefer to team.

What other peopel do in and with the MA doesnt effect you in anyway.

In short, mind your own business.

How about missions are rated on the NUMBER of PLAYs. Of couse with the Devs trying to keep content down with their Devs Choice clogging up the list noobs are sure to try those fist. But I would rather like to try something a lot of others are trying. That tells me that it is enjoyed for some reason regargless of ratings.

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...And let's face it, for all of you out there that feel the same way as I do about these farms. Doesn't it suck to have all your mission arcs you worked hard on buried under all those farm missions?

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Thats the crux of your bad attitude. No one wants to play your little mission.

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How come we have not seen any new devs choices getting picked yet?

Any thing ever been said as to how they will get released? I kinda assumed with the target of 1% dev choice (I think thats right) that we would be getting a steady stream of missions pinged for us to try out.

With the search facility annoying alot of people some new Dev's choices would also help bring more good missions to the fore. Anyone got any info?

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They should do away with Dev's Choice. It really isnt player generated content of their stuff always comes up first. "Players Choice" should be the first ones listed.

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This means no suppression either, right? That would incur most of the same problems the original nerf brought, so I hope we're sticking with stealth as-is.

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If you read Statesman's comment on it, yes supression of stealth will be coming in a future patch. They will be pulling the current method so they can code supression in.

Its only being pulled because otherwise idiots would use group and castable invisibility abilities to grief and harass players.

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Hate to spoil the fun but you do realise those who predicted abait and switch were...right

The devs AI is as predictable as a vazalok cadaver without a mortie

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So...

Your not happy with the Dev's because they never listen to the playerbase, however, anything thats done that appears to be listening to the playerbase is all really part of some bait and switch?

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It's more like they do some change that is extreme, and then like usual some players suggest something less extreme even though the original change in the first place was unneeded and the alternative is only reasonable in comparison to the original change, rather than being reasonable in itself. That's what is now happening with stealth powers. Changing them in the first place was asinine, and suppression still retains most of the problems and is nearly as unreasonable. Most clickies don't even give XP, and risk v. reward is making fun and time v. reward take a back seat even though they have a lot more to do with making the game enjoyable. I remember ED was also mentioned as "player suggestion" despite it being a suggestion in place of the I5 nerfs. We got I5 nerfs + ED and the blame was placed on "see! we listen to our customers!" in order to make it look like we're really being listened to.

What would probably be a more effective tactic in the future when changes like this come is to not offer an alternative for the devs. All we end up doing is giving them some sort of excuse to implement something largely similar when we wanted neither in the first place. Otherwise, we end up just pressuring them into implementing something we didn't even want in the first place, but merely would have wanted rather than the original change. It's not a productive cycle to be in, and the forums seem to fall into it every single time in an incredibly mechanistic manner.

People say Jack and co. don't know PR, but they've managed to rather successfully placate their customers _repeatedly_ even after the most egregious of changes. The best PR is the PR that people don't even recognise.

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QFT!!!!!

especially : What would probably be a more effective tactic in the future when changes like this come is to not offer an alternative for the devs.


Give me the doooooom posts anyday. These bootlicking marathons just make me ill.

I am also against the costume pieces. I would like the games to be seperate istead of more homogenized. If its missing peices thats fine but there should be some things that just dont cross over. If they must implement the awful switching sides then thats when you should be able to choose villain costumes.

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Like popping a break free for a hold all you have to do is pop a blue and problem solved

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Not if it drops all your toggles first.

You also seem to have some bizarre notion that we can use an inspiration in every fight. Maybe more than one. How many inspiration slots do you have, exactly?

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actually again the same can be said for PVP where I must have a tray of Break frees otherwise you just get held, and die.

Same goes for toggle dropping.

I only brought up the Longbow acting like PCs because one of the devs commeneted that they tried to make some of the officers or commanders or wardens as close to PCs as they could.

I just think its funny that issues are taken seriously when dealing with the PVE game but the same issues are blwon off when it comes to PVP.

As far as the one shotting puches, family bosses will do that too. Consignlares can be really tough.

My Crey comment was realetd to the fact that not only do you get protectors which are about like wardens, you also get Tanks and Scientists. The tanks have that Super Strength attack and the Scientists will hiold you with freeze rays

I have just never seen long bow as a problem, they seem about on par with many groups we face.

Maybe its just because they appear so frequenlty.

But genefral if I walk into a mish and it turns out to be long bow I will just say "Oh, its just loNg bow" quick and easy XP

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The mere fact that the devs decided to give an enemy, and a Lt-level at that, the ability to just utterly negate ALL defenses, no matter the AT...it's staggering. It's damn near terrifying in its implications: could it be the beginning of a trend?

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I thought the idea was to make make some of the mobs as much like PCs as possible. This is exactly what you face in PVP.

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Guess what?

PvP is optional.

Not everyone wants it. Not everyone plays it. Not everyone gives one flat damn what it's like.

Moreover, many who do want PvP despise toggle dropping there.

And finally, players have powers that are massively unfun to players when they are used on them. Huge damage, massive debuffs, and frankly mezzes top out the list. We fight hundreds upon hundreds of AI foes per day, and those powers are useful and fun for us to use on the AI opponents. But what's good for the goose is not good for the gander, because we have powers that can devastate our own characters. Facing that with any frequency is frustrating, not fun. It's what AVs and Elite bosses are for, not foes we meet from 1-50 of in a mission.

So sorry, but your argument doesn't fly even with a good kick.

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actually that was my point....

it isnt at all fun in PVP... so why would it be fun in PVE.

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Man, I'm feeling stupid today...having trouble getting across what I mean. I'll try again. (I've kinda gotten off-topic here.)

What I was saying is not that enemies do too much damage (to end and hp), but that certain enemies do too much in a single hit. It just shouldn't happen. If it all ADDS UP to you being defeated, or your end drained to nothing, that's fine. If a Boss or Elite or AV can kill you in TWO hits, we as players have the potential to deal with that too.

What we CANNOT deal with, is being one-shotted. Yes, I include the end bar in this as well...think of it like hp. There is NO challenge in this, it's just death, or detoggling. Mezzes at least can be broken, or negated with certain powers.

And yes, I do include AVs in this. NO AV in the game, at even level, should kill you or drain you in a hit. None, period, zero. Take us down to 1 hp, fine, but one-shotting should be out of here. I DO NOT CARE what AV it is, and I don't care what AT you are either. Even a Defender should be able to take a SINGLE AV attack and survive. Now, if that Defender's still there for the follow-up...well, can't help there.

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I must be fighting a different long bow because I have never seen them one-shot anybody.

I have never found the end drain to be more than an annoyance.

Like popping a break free for a hold all you have to do is pop a blue and problem solved

I just still dont see how Long Bow are overpowered.

They are no worse than Crey or Malta

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Question, though: don't the spec ops EMP grenades do damage to bots?

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Yes, they do damage, and there is some endurance effect. But, it doesn't disable them, because their defenses aren't dependant upon endurance-burning powers nor do they have to turn toggles back on.

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SSHHHHHH... please dont give any MM deatils on the public forums. Our stance should always be we are ultra squishy and uinderpowered and totally dependent on other ATs.

My god if Jack ever gets wind of anything different--- i shudder to think.

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The mere fact that the devs decided to give an enemy, and a Lt-level at that, the ability to just utterly negate ALL defenses, no matter the AT...it's staggering. It's damn near terrifying in its implications: could it be the beginning of a trend?

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I thought the idea was to make make some of the mobs as much like PCs as possible. This is exactly what you face in PVP.

So the advice all the controllers and defenders would give is to just have a break free on hand nad shut up --- except some of them want break frees eliminated or nerfed.

Anyway... I still dont get it. Longbow have never been a problem for me. Only thing I find tough is when there is a spines warden.

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No offense, but focus groups are next to useless.

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I'm going to have to disagree with you there.

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They were concieved as a way for corperations to generate statistical models without all the cost of, y'know, generating statistics.

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No, they weren't. Anyone using them for such is violating the codes of the entire industry.

Focus groups are qualititative research. They are designed to establish the breadth of range of opinions that exist concerninga given topic. They are not quantitative research they give no insight into how commonplace those views are in the general public unless thos views are nearly universal.

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Their functional value has -always- been dramatically overrated.

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In fact, I'll actualy agree with this. Many people use them incorrectly. That does not mean, however, they are useless when used for what they are designed to do.

There are just too many ways that people differ from each other for a small number of people to speak for a large number of people.

Nor is that their purpose. By carefully crafting your group(s) composition to target as wide range of respondents you inherently skew any chance they offer a numerical representation of the population. People who try to do so are wasting their time.

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The only way to get reliable data is to poll a significant number of people. The more you poll, the more likely your data isn't being skewed by personal quirks.

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Yes, but you can't design your poll in the first place until you have a sense of the range of opinions you need to test.

A focus group with CoH players will tell you, for example, that some people feel they level too slowly in CoH while others feel they level too quickly.

A follow-up survey will then establish how many people in the player base feel one way, feel the other or have no strong opinion either way.

But to simply design a survey with no foundation to design it on leaves that survey instrument vulnerable to missing critical questons, or phrasing those questions in a way that skews the results, or bias by the designer.
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Modern psychology just is not effective enough to categorize people in the way Focus groups try to.

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Again, you have an erroneous view of what focus groups are designed to do. But I can't say I blame you since they are often misused in just the way you describe.

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actully i have to agree that they are next to useless... working in advertising I would often have CDs waste time with focus groups... Unless it was something of a specific technical nature we could get the same results just by quizzing people in the office.

But we all digress....

There is no need for a focus group... here is what it boils down to:

Rent sux. Make it go away.

Items cost too much. Lower the cost or increase Prestige gain.

Bases need more usefulness. Seriously, the med reclaimers need a big boost to compete with hospitals

I have actually seen things from both sides now. Last month our group was very active and could earn around 100K a day. We quickly built the base and upgraded the plot.

Now between the holidays and exams and people quitting the game we went from haveing 10 people on most of the time to having a couple of people play a couple of hours a day. A good day now is 10K.

I just cant imagine how a small group who just plays a few hours a week can ever get ahead. At this point I dont even know how I will pay rent in couple of weeks

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is the exact kind of thing that will get stealth nerfed by the Devs.

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i dont know about you but i can just run straight to the objectives in nearly every map without using any powers.

I will agree with you there... what is often a minority opinion on the forums --- poo-pooed and one starred -- turns out to be a widely held belief in the live game.

But then how would they form your focus group.. RPers and PVPers would have different issues. The test center Carebear fanbois arent a good choice IMO. You cant randomlly pick people since not everyone is into to base building or experienced at it.

Isnt this forum the de facto focus group.... We know Recluse reads these posts.. and Jack, well he isnt as bad as Koster but he seems pretty out of touch with the game in general

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I also think they had to be concerned that the large CoH SGs who potentially had billions in stored influence would convert it all to prestige and gain a huge headstart on the villain groups.

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[censored] would you let that go!

Do you seriously think that most players will turn over their saved prestige to their SG.

OMG, they are nerfing longbow...

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4) The Sonic Concussion power blows through anyones Hold protection, but it only lasts 1/4 of a second. It is working as designed, however, I'll pass this to geko to see if it is too strong of an effect.


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I'm going to be blunt here.

Do the people who come up with this stuff know how to balance games?

I'm serious.

I'm going to give you an example from a game system lots and lots of people are famliar with: Dungeons and Dragons. D&D is balanced on the idea of players making a certain income by facing foes of certain threat ratings roughly matched to their own team's rating. Part and parcel of the income won by characters is the idea that they will spend it on equipment. That ability to have equipment is factored into the threat rating of foes tossed at the PCs. It is understood that if you have level 10 D&D characters with no magic weapons or magic armor that they are very likely underpowered to face Challenge Rating 10 foes, because those foes will assume characters who bought such things by then.

CoH and CoV are no different. Foes are balanced in damage dealt per blow, HP, and mez capability on the assumption that heroes will have key powers (and will have lots of slots in them!). Melee heroes are given armors, and Critter melee damage is very high to balance it. Other crucial, non-armor toggles that can be expected of level 35+ heroes are ones that affect accuracy or prevent mezzing.

Toggle dropping removes these assumed capabilities from our characters. This means that the character is put in a state that imbalances the level of threat they can handle - they can no longer deal with threats appropriate to their level. Yet toggle dropping foes do not, in general, deal less damage, and certainly no allied critters they are in a group with do so. They lower the effective level of the player's character but have no compensating reduction of their own.

Stop with the PvE negation of our powers. As implemented it is blatant poor game balance in the favor of the critters. Powers are the only reward we get in this game. It is tiresome and frustrating for cancellation of them to be more than an occasional occurence.

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the same thing can be said about PVP... once some toggles go down you are basically dead in many cases... same thing with being held in a block of ice... once you are held its all over but the dying.. thats why Im getting bored with PVP here...its nothing but trying not to get mezzed.

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I dont play games to pay bills.

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That's funny (meaning odd), because thinking about it I'm hard pressed to think of many games I play where I don't have some form of bills to pay in the game itself...

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i bet you stuck with E&B until they literally unplugged the servers

Rent just needs to go away!!!!!!!!!!

Its nothing but an annoyance.

I dont play games to pay bills. I had my fill of maintence costs playing SWG a few years ago. The rooms and objects in the room have enough front loaded costs as to make rent an unecessary mechanic.

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This is a gross exaggeration. They don't start getting the flamethrowers till later levels including the eagles. Then the spec ops come in at an even higher level. This is about equivalent to most of the other mobs in the game.

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He means they all look alike

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no i meant that there is absolutly no variety. they are stagnant, stale, uniform.

Doing them solo you get the exact same spawn. Flamethrowerm Eagle, Rifleman, Spec-Ops. then 5 feeet away is the same spawn and so on and so on and so on. Only grouped do you get to mix thigs up with a nullifier thrown in then a warden here and there.

I played CoH over the weekend and was doing a Crey series. They have maybe 10 templayes to choose from. Every mob group moving through the missions were varied. You walk into a long bow nission and there is no question about what you will face.

They are just pretty dull. Getting a mission from thenm at level 15 is the same as getting one at 35. Sure in the 30s they all get grenades and the spec-ops starts a little sapping but its still the exact same grouping.

I mean atleast in CoT they switch out the ThornCasters, fire casters then earth then air.

I dont just think they are easy, I think they are boring.

I have seem teams have a rough time withthem though. Thats usually because the team doesnt coordinate their attacks and they all attack a differnt Mob and aggro the entire group or pull 2-3 groups at once. One time no one would listen to me to take out the Nulliferes first

They arent overpowered... THEY ARE JUST DULL

There is no variation. Every mission and every spawn in every mission is exactly the same. From level 2-40. Its just boring.

They need to mix things up like Archnos and Crey. They are very easy to fight but just not that entertaining.

Itd nearly to the point I would ratehr fight CoT than do another dull longbow mission..

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Is there any reason for a non-raiding base to do ANYTHING with salvage?

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Not really... only "useful
" items are the telepads and the medical stuff. everything else is related to power, control and defense. If you dont add defense then you wont need more power and control..

Once you get the telepads in and a med bay set up you are basically thru with base building unless you just want to add rooms to have imagimary tea parties in.

I would not call todays thing an event by any stretch...

It was simply a short, simple mission that takes a few minutes