Memphis_Bill

Heh. This is true. That and I loved having people complain about "That $(*#&$ Stalker!" ... well, long ago, in PVP - with my En/En brute.

Hmm. Funny. Not only do I not bother with the numbers, as stated earlier, nor do I do billion INF builds (or anything anywhere close,) but I - as stated earlier - have FAR more fun and enjoy my HEATs far more than my VEATs. My HEATs have no problem accomplishing "anything of worth," just fine, thanks. Including the main point of the *game* from a subscriber's point of view - me *having fun* - as well as NC's - giving me incentive to keep subscribing.

Is that "Poor" design, or just "different designs?"

Oh, my VEATs don't solo at your settings either. None of my characters do. Because... I don't find it fun. If you love those settings, good for you. But don't tell me because I *don't* that that's the measure of how much worth the character has.

I don't play "City of Spreadsheets" either.

For me, HEAT > VEAT, by a LARGE margin. If everything played like a VEAT - or like your scrapper, or every tank like a stone tank - I'd have left LONG ago. If this were still pre-ED, pre-GDN "City of godmode," everyone stand around waiting for the tank to herd the map so one blaster nuke can clear the whole thing - I'd have left long ago as well. Personally I find it amusing that you ask the second after the spreadsheet comment.

Edit: And from Dechs' post, this, 100%:

... For tankers? For almost anyone, TBH. OK, solo controller or dom, maybe. And Mind, I seem to actually use it more than anywhere else. Otherwise - throw the heal proc from the sleep set in, and you have a nice, unreliable heal otherwise, generally - yeah, I agree that's kind of useless.

Heck, I use *dimension shift* and I call PBAOE sleeps on a tank useless. That's pretty bad.

Precisely.

None of the items I have from any of the "packs" (starting from the COH DVD I first started with) are transferrable. I can't put my Cape of Four Winds on the market, sell my Pocket D VIP pass, or auction off my Valkyrie Wings to the highest bidder. And none of the "stuff" really makes my character all that much more powerful.

The same cant' be said for buying sets, buying INF, buying purples, etc.

It has it for.... immobilize protection, perception, and a little defense. And yeah, sometimes stealthing is nice. But it can be put off, yes. I tend to take CJ on my FA and DA tanks anyway, so immob's not as important.

As far as "the formula? Try charge in, get group's attention, Cloak of Fear/Oppressive Gloom/etc. (Not necessarily at the same time.) Use your other mitigation options. And, of course, take advantage of whatever else is in your secondary. Yes, DA makes for a more "controllery" tank. If you try to play it like Stone, you'll faceplant.

Of course, this is coming from someone who plays a lot of Fire tanks, which also don't have (or need) a "godmode." It's a more active tank. Just might not mesh with your playstyle. (Mine's mid/20s, DA/SS. Also have a DA/El at 10, just not very active on the lowbie's server. I like it because it *is* different. )

And here we have a good example of reading comprehension. Thank you. (And I'm not bothering to respond to the other individual at this point.)

(Though I can nitpick and say "don't like them so far," as I am still giving the Crab and, eventually, Huntsman a chance still. No, won't respec the Bane, since that wouldn't tell me how the Crab played from 25-40... have this thing about actually wanting to understand the powerset.)

Note - back up your player notes, in this case. (Just a text file in the directory, as I recall.) Should you move computers or have to reinstall, you can put it back instead of starting from scratch. Unlike the ignore lists, they're not saved on the servers.

Wow. You're having real trouble with comprehension. You pretty much call me a liar,after reciting EXACTLY the sort of things I dealt with on the way up AND my impressions - even though, of course, you weren't there. And now you don't understand "I WAS looking forward to it thanks to beta (hint, genius, beta = pre-live) and was disappointed afterward (note, that's AFTER beta, IE, live.)" That is not "lauding" it. Or is this too hard for you to follow?

Let me put it very simple:
Step 1: Thought it would be interesting. Said so then.
Step 2: Found it was disappointing. Saying so now.

Does that clarify the order of events enough for you?

No, I did not "want to play a VEAT as a stalker." How about not making assumptions. I wanted to play a VEAT as a VEAT. As much like the NPCs they represent as possible. They fell short in many areas.

Listen very closely. I wondered why I *didn't* just roll another stalker, as the playstyle was running close to it. Understand? Not "I wanted to play it AS a stalker." I play VEATs as VEATs. I'm willing to TRY the others, EVEN AFTER bad experiences with two of tthem. Hence, lack of tunnel vision.

Edit: Said at this point I'd wondered how you'd twist this. However, no, no I'm not. You've proven a lack of comprehension and inability to follow a chain of events OR a thread of posts. You don't even have comedy value for me at this point.

Base raids are in the "Foundations getting redone" stage - PVP changes themselves didn't sound like the devs were finished, and other changes in base editing seem like they're still works in progress.

The COP *was* live - for a very short time, until an exploit was found and abused that (as I recall) was letting people just join, and keep "completing" the same mission over and over, essentially PLing themselves. The problem was so deepseated that the trial had to be completely scrapped.

That said... *More stuff for the base computer* (or ANY stuff for it blueside,) please.

... can I point out that a friend and I both get the comments from... I don't recall which Warcraft it is, II or III in mind with Self Destruction.

"I've got explosives. Kabooooooom! Ahhh, it's beautiful..."

Two words.

Dual Build.

I know, it's not *just* what you were talking about, but seriously - take advantage, having a more primary-heavy build for when you solo.

Other than that, I tend to find binds help with my shield-ing characters, speeding up the process some. I like to use the arrow keys - left for fire shield, right for plasma, up for thaw on whoever needs it. Forge isn't quite as much a "process" for me, and who gets it depends on the team.

And of course... let masterminds (past, oh, level 10) deal with their own pets. They've got a support secondary, they can keep them alive.

Everything else, honestly, depends on team, level, how things are going, etc - including how important keeping various shields up are. Fire shield? Priority. Not dealing with something doing a lot of energy? Save time and END, don't bother with Plasma. Just pay attention to the situation.

Note that Dark Melee's AS, at least, has you shoving a skull through the target. Which has to count for something.

Also - female (and non mix-and-match) appropriate sounds for Sonic... everything. And a better "matched" set for males and huge.

One note - if you plan on PVPing, don't take Teleport (or don't take it in your second build.) While in the arena you can turn off travel power suppression, in zone, you can't - and if you attack or are attacked, you will lose the ability to teleport *at all* for a short time. (Unless that's changed very recently, but I don't recall a note on it.)

I don't care what you think about that, chuckles. I was, frankly, looking forward to them. I thought the branching mechanic would be an interesting new one (and still think, frankly, it should have been brought in earlier.) You don't want to believe that, too damn bad. I have no reason to lie about it, and if you don't believe that, put me on ignore and quit wasting my time.
Did you see my statement about not playing for the numbers? Or the one about better stealth? (which I don't need numbers to see, since bane/widow = "detected as I come up, knocked out of stealth when I got hit" and the stalkers weren't.)

Gee, I said this once, and quoted it again just recently:

Hmm. Yeah. real tunnel vision there. Absolute lack of wanting to understand them. Except for the whole "I want to play the other options to see what they're like." (Except, admittedly, the fort. Looks a bit too similar when I went over it.)

When one complains about an AT not being "epic," and is not using the definition handed down, then the point has to be made. Clear enough?

And I happen to find Khelds better designed - and even with fewer slots, FAR more flexible in build options than VEATs.

The devs, by definition, develop the game. I don't care if you want to use the definition EPIC = "Extremely Pink International Cargo." Their definition is the one that, in this arena, is the one we get to go with.
... wow, what are you reading? My "If you have defenders, do you need anything else? If you have controllers, do you need a tank?" That is not "Comparing Khelds to controllers" (or VEATs to controllers, for that matter.)

Regardless of that being the *precise* feeling I had playing them. Of course. Again, my *exact* feeling - I believe I even said this to one of my SG mates - was "Why didn't I just roll another Stalker and give it leadership?"

And yet I have a not-quote-as-stealthy melee AT (in three of the four cases,) which gets detected right at melee range, with no KB protection, no self heal in many cases, and END-draining leadership toggles. Two sets of them, if you choose to go by some of the SOA forum builds (which I did not.)

Not going to argue if you're having fun or not. If you are, hey, great. Keep doing it. In the end, that's what we're here for. (I'll also point out that you're talking about a Crab, where I've been - as mentioned - talking about what I've seen from my Widow and Bane, which may be throwing your view of my comparison off.)

Again - I see the *exact opposite.* VEATs come across as tight, uncompromising builds. I respecced and burned both builds several times on my widow to get something I was - well, not "happy with" but "least unhappy" with. Same on my Bane, so far. If it happens differently when I get my Crab leveled farther (since just looking at the powers, it has a very different playstyle to the other two,) I'll have absolutely no problem saying "Of the VEATs, the Crab's been the only one I enjoyed." It happened, after all, with Masterminds and bot/FF souring me on them for a while. But as I mentioned before, burned twice, so I'm not in a rush to get on that Crab and play.

Honestly, though.... almost any AT can plug any hole. No tank? Control keeps things from affecting the team (as well as debuffs.) No blaster? Debuffs increase team efficiency (reducing resistance, increasing performance, etc.)

Khelds get slammed because they're not specialists - they *are* a swiss army knife. And there's no "one true build." I can complain about the rad/ corruptor a few halloweens ago having only AM, the heal and rez in the mid-30s because it was really gutting what the character could do - *and what was expected of it* (especially fighting Eochai at the time. We invited the guy because we needed debuffs, not weak PBAOE heals.)

They may have "higher than normal recovery" - but not by much. They don't have built in Stamina. It's not enough to, say, offset the leadership toggles noticably. I'm out of breath on my VEATs not noticably later than I am on my normal characters - and they end up trying to fit in stamina more times than not. So how is this little extra bit of recovery helping the team?

And while that blaster's "flying past" in damage on my Kheld, I'm adding control, self or team buffs, and the ability to tank, if needed.
Nothing I've said - on *either* side - is untrue from my experience playing them. That's with Khelds from I4, and VEATs from introduction.

Never have I said a Kheld is 100% blaster, 100% tank, etc. Obviously being able to switch roles on the fly comes with a price. So what?

If there's a blaster, do you need a scrapper?
If there's a scrapper, do you need a tank?
If there's a controller, do you need a defender?
If there's more than one defender, do you need anyone else?

The "holes" argument is, if you'll excuse the phrase, full of holes, since it's true for everyone else, as well.

Again - none have come from me. If you want to argue that perhaps I know how to play to my Khelds strengths or whatever out of *playing* them for years, and don't have that behind me with VEATs, I'll accept that may come into play - but hell, I was *excited* about VEATs when they hit test, and thought the branching was a good idea, etc. That soured fast playing them live.

>.> *points up a ways*


I've got this thing about getting into ATs every possible way I can, trying to learn them inside and out. No, I'm not a numbers guy - I don't plan on getting .0000001% more defense to monkey snot, how to shave off 1/5 sec of recharge for 2% more damage on an attack, etc. I go through how the sets *play.* I've got quite a few tanks (a few sitting back, waiting, since I've been playing more with "how do various secondaries work with fire" with them,) one of every control primary on either a troller or a dom, quite a number of defenders, etc. Only thing I don't have at least one 50 of is a Corruptor and a Soldier (the Bane being at 40 and just... sitting there.)

I *do* give different builds a shot - especially given my mastermind experience (found bot/FF boring as heck, talked to the MM forum, tried thugs/poi, love the thing and have several other combos rolled,) so it's not "just" Bane (for instance) for me. Crab, for me, is the most promising - but being "burned" twice, as it were, I'm just not looking forward to the trip. I can't say that with any other AT. (Specific points, sure - like when MMs get to deal with Scrapyarders heavily, it's not fun, but after that it's a breeze. Or specific powersets - I find Illusion too direct-control-light, so I don't enjoy playing it, yet I have a ton of 'trollers and doms.)

Nobody's arguing about the reason it's there.

The OP is asking that the temp powers (Mission Teleporter, Base teleporter, etc.) not be allowed to activate *specifically because* Teleport doesn't work there, so they're not wasted (since they have charges in many cases, or are on a long recharge.)

From the OP:

Bill - I know you're heavily focused on melting/slashing/stabbing everything in sight. I went through your arc. Not every AT is meant to do that. That is not "failing to deliver," unless you count controllers and defenders as failed classes for not having scrapper damage 24/7. It's what you enjoy, more power to ya.

I'm going to leave it at this:

I find my Khelds - both PB and WS, and I've run several up to 50 - FUN. I look forward to playing them, and recently made *more.* I don't feel underpowered in the slightest. No, not an exaggeration. Hell, I'm still annoyed they nerfed Voids because of people complaining something could actually *threaten* them slightly.

VEATs? I find uninspiring, boring, tedious, a waste of half the levels gained, and just plain *not fun.* Not because "zomg they're so powerful" or any nonsense like that. Most of the time when I hear how 'great" VEATs are, it's followed by one of three things:
"... in groups" (so they're buffbots,) or
"... with other VEATs" (again... buffbots,) or
"... when I IO'd them out for capped X Y Z" (yay you?)

My reaction playing them has generally been - and I believe I mentioned this before - "Why didn't I just roll another stalker?" Doing that and taking leadership nets the *same thing* for all intents and purposes without a crap "storyline" that the dev team should be ashamed of. Except, of course, you get better stealth. And an early placate. And more options. And you don't have to re-figure your build at 24 (twice, if you decide to try a dual build.)

I don't find them powerful, I don't find them enjoyable, I don't find them "well made" ("tight, uncompromising build," perhaps) and I don't find them *fun.*

Edit: And for the nitwit that red-repped that prior post mentioning getting two shotted by BAB, etc, saying "The hyperbole was too high," well, guess what, chuckles, none of that was made up. You don't like the truth, too damn bad.

See prior definition of "epic." One which, btw, was handed down from the dev team. And then see what that was posted here in reply to.

/agreed.

I know full well about the TP suppression field, but I've gone and switched characters to join friends, hit Mission Teleport as I came in - THEN remembered "oh, yeah, can't do that from here" and had to zip to the base portal. I don't log out in Pocket D enough for it to be the first thing on my mind.

Just disable the powers.