Memphis_Bill

No.

For starters, the power pools are tiered. Why should I be able to get Superspeed or Superjump at level 6, but can only pick Fly at 14, or Teleport at 20 - and must have SS or SJ first? That's a wasted power. The tiering in general just looks goofy.

Second, Kheldians *cannot* pick Teleport or Fly. What are you going to do to that pool for them?

Third, you'd now force (for instance) my Fire tanks, who can grab two pools (fitness and leaping) to take three - one for combat jumping (slight defense, immobilize protection,) fitness, and the travel pool. I've got some characters who already utilize four pools (especially support) - fitness, travel, concealment and leadership, for instance. You'd absolutely break those characters with this.

Fourth, it's FAR too late in the game to make such a major change. You would break *every single character in the game.* For me, *personally,* that would mean going through and having to respec over 170 characters - and I know many people with even MORE, not to mention what people would see on reactivation weekends - "I came back to the game and had to change my characters, so I just didn't bother, later COH." Adding a power to a pool, such as was done with the PPPs and APPs, doesn't have this issue - but that's not what you're proposing.

I believe it was the four year anniversary where we were told there were several *million* characters created. Think about that - then think about having to go through most of them and do a complete respec with these new (and, I have to say it, rather disorganized seeming) power pools.

Last but not least, what are you replacing the 60 (?) month vet reward with?

In another thread, I was making comments about various things with VEATs that bugged me. Among other things, I mentioned that in beta, I was looking forward to the branching mechanic – one of the things that defines a VEAT, really. It's unique to them. And it didn't bug me in beta. But once it hit live, I ended up changing my tune. I found I wasn't fond of it, for a variety of reasons. (Some of which I'll go into later.)


Well, an interesting thing happened today. I also play Aion, and my Priest hit level 10. At level 10, you ascend, get your wings, become a Daeva, and... choose a path to take (in my Priest's case, Cleric or Chanter.) This is the third character I have there that's done this.


Sound familiar? Yeah. It's branching. Yet I like making the choice there. The difference in my attitude towards the two struck me as odd today. Am I being hypocritical? Thinking about it a bit – I'd say no. But I thought it might make for an interesting discussion about the various contrasts.


What this isn't


This isn't a HEAT/VEAT thread. It's not VEAT bashing. I'm going to mention WHY some things about the VEAT branching mechanic bug me when they don't bug me elsewhere. This is not a “Fix VEATs” - I'm not saying they're broken. If you're looking for an argument about how awesome or awful they are – it's not here.


Also, while “compare and contrast” threads about games are against forum rules, I'm not going into “X game is better, here's why.” This is purely a look at similar mechanics. If you like another game better (or hate it,) hey, great.


The only games I can really contrast this with are Guild Wars and Aion. I'm sure a similar mechanic exists elsewhere, so if anyone wants to chime in there, hey, go for it.


Also, I'm not going to go into overall why I find them fun or not fun, comments on the stories or the like. This is JUST dealing with the branching mechanic, as for me I suspect the way it was handled is a big part of my overall irritation. So yes, this is me working on figuring things out - much like I did trying to find out why I didn't like masterminds (one set, Bot/FF, put me off the entire AT for a while - now I love my others.)



Warning – this is, of course, heavily my opinions and views. I'm trying to watch my wording in a lot of this, but if you see me say “X is irritating” - just mentally add in “to MB.” It's not something to start a fight over, but if you have some other viewpoint to contrast with it, feel free.


VEAT branching – what is it?


Simply put, you go for 23 levels simply as a “soldier” or “widow.” Nothing all that special, and the powers of the branches aren't opened up to you. Up to this point, you're a lot like the regular ATs. At 24, when you see the trainer, you're told you have to respec now and pick a branch, starting over from level 1. You choose one branch, and the other is closed off for you. This makes you a Widow, Fortunata, Bane or Crab. (Ignoring, for the moment, huntsman type builds.)


Now, COV has some interesting things to it. We're very free with respecs. Three trials, recipes, purchasable respecs, freespecs with most issues and more, you can rebuild your character over and over – and that ignores dual builds. No choice you make is permanent, beyond AT, primary and secondary (and it's arguable that VEATs ignore primary and secondary, since you get no choice of them in the AT, you're either Widow or Soldier, two distinct ATs. But you do get different branches with, sometimes, vastly different powers in them.)


Branching in the other games


Aion, as mentioned, has you “Ascend” at level 10. Your choice of initial class – Mage, Scout, Warrior or Priest – determines which you become. (Scout = Ranger or Assassin, for instance.) The choice is permanent – as far as I've heard, there's nothing like a respec in Aion. Of course, this IS also like many other MMOs where you don't keep your old powers – in COH, you use Burst (for instance) from 1-50, enhancing it as you go, whereas in Aion you end up with (powername) I, superceded by (powername) II and so forth. You learn a stronger version, you don't just beef up what you have and add other powers to it.


This shuffling of power slotting and enhancement is one of the reasons respeccing is – to me – a vital part of COH and how it deals with powers.


Guild Wars, as I recall (it's not gripping enough of a game to keep me playing constantly) is similar in a way. While you don't branch, early on (level 5) you pick a secondary, so you can be (for instance) a Ranger/Elementalist. (This would, VERY roughly, be like choosing to be a fire blaster, and at level 6 when pools open up also choosing, say, Energy Melee as well.) Again, though, powers get replaced, not enhanced. (among other things.)


The latter two (Aion and GW) are very much with the standard MMO mold, as I've seen it, with how they deal with powers. COH, by comparison, is incredibly flexible in most cases. No decision you make is permanent.


This, I think, is one of the things that ends up bugging me with VEAT branching. The complants may seem minor, but handled a little differently, I don't think I would be complaining. (Disclaimer: Again, I am NOT calling to “fix VEATs.” Should the mechanic be used in the future, though, perhaps some of this would come into consideration.)


My branching complaints


When it comes to my talking about VEATs and branching, I usually mention three things -


First, it happens late in the character's life. OK, maybe not "Level 40" late, but it *feels* too late to me. It feels (to me) like it takes too long to get there, like I've “wasted” almost half my numeric levels.


Second, the respec is forced at the trainer at 24, as opposed to being able to put it off.


Third, and last of my usual complaints, respeccing is somewhat irritating, but dual builds are awful (to me,) as you do the same thing with build 2 – build to 23, then start over again.


One I'm going to add in here that I don't normally say – it's not permanent, or permanent in that build. I'll get to that in a bit.


So what is it about all this that puts a burr in my saddle? It does, definitely, affect my attitude towards VEATs, but why?


Late in life


Let's look at the first complaint again. VEAT branching happens at level 24. You can't really start “being” what you want until then. Contrast with Aion – level 10 (of 50) – or Guild Wars (level 5.) You burn through the lowbie stuff, decide you like the character, make a choice and then do the majority of the content (PVE and PVP.)

I mentioned how it didn't bug me in beta, but did in live. It didn't affect me when the sets were in beta for two reasons - first, I was hopping between test and live, as well as doing other things. My test characters aren't "serious" characters to me. And second, the test characters got bumped. They skipped dozens of levels as we were asked to test various content, powers, and such. I'd log off a level 10 and come back to a level 35. That really hid how the timing of the branching would "feel" for me.

This somewhat touches on the respec portion of it, as well. With the other two games, and how they're “MMO Standard,” you keep (and just get more powerful versions of) those same powers, then pick up class-specific stuff after that.

I really think this feeling I have of “wasted levels” and “wasted effort” is part of what gets to me with VEATs. If the branching happened earlier – during the “fast levels” (up to, say, 14,) it wouldn't be anywhere near as big a deal. Instead, you're in the middle of the 25-30 content, have to come to a halt and completely rebuild your character when other characters are really coming into their own, getting some of the signature powers and beefing them up. I can't help but get the image of the VEAT (at this point) being a grade schooler kept in class during recess to redo their lessons while the other kids play.

Branching off earlier means you would get more time to “play” as what you finally will be. Which, for me personally, I think would be more satisfying. And during a respec? Zip right through. Even a dual build, it's only a couple of powers to pick at that point and you're ready to go.


That really works itself through the first three points I usually bring up regarding these. A feeling of wasted time and inconvenience to the point of irritation.


The last idea, that of permanence, would be a big change (and quite likely unpopular if I were suggesting VEATs be changed to it – which I'm not, just looking at how it could affect branching.) Imagine leveling up to 10 or 14 and being told, “You have a choice to make. This choice will finalize your archetype.” From that level, you are always (say) a Widow. You'll never see a Fort power in that build.


Why would anyone do this? It's against all the free-form choices we normally get in COH. Yet, looking at it in light of the prior complaints – it would solve most of them. (That and, I admit, I'm a fan of permanence. I like having my patron be my patron, even if I pick another one's powers – which is more fair gameplay wise. I like that you can fail the Efficiency Expert's badge. I like choices with consequences.)


Of course, this could be “cheated” easily with dual builds, and honestly, I'd be fine with that. Let it be permanent within a build, and let the builds be different. When you start the second build, you get a checkbox of which branch you want to take, skipping the whole “.... and start over at level X” bit. But I like the thought of “You choose your path, and that's what you are from here on out.” Later (post-branch) respecs, you'd be respeccing your widow from step 1 as a widow, never seeing fortunata powers on that build. Done early, it would eliminate the feeling I mention getting of wasted effort and wasted levels. Also, if it were done early, you could quite conceivably keep the “basic” powers and just start picking up branch powers, instead of having to start over – making that forced respec not such a sudden stop-and-start.


Would it make a huge difference, play-wise, for VEATs? It's hard to say. You'd start BEING your eventual self earlier – which, for me, may help “get into” the character more, getting a better feel for its strengths and weaknesses without having to unlearn so much. And again, it would lessen if not eliminate the feel I get of just burning through levels until I can finally play the “real” character at 24 (and hope it's what I'm looking for – though, admittedly, with many powersets it takes a bit to get into them and see what they're truly capable of. On the flip side of that, though, you're not running 23 levels of Ice and suddenly having to deal with being an Illusion controller.)


My design


So, taking this into consideration, if we were to get another “branching” AT designed like this, how would it work?

• You branch early, say level 10-14.
• Your early powers, the very basic ones, are kept regardless of branch. You don't respec and start over when you branch – this keeps a smoother “flow” of the character and its progression.
• Once you pick your branch, within that build, you never see the other branch's powers. You can, of course, start a second build, pick the branch at the start and just build from level 1 that way. On the other hand, with the branching coming early, rolling a new one is more attractive as well.

Hmmmmm.... have to think about it.
I've never done one of the "new" hami raids. Just no interest. Old ones, yeah, I've been at a few.
I've never done a LRSF.
Never did the COP for the week or so it was out.
Never participated in a base raid.
Never built a character (from scratch, respec, or as a dual build) specifically for PVP.
Never ran the Calvin Scott TF.
Edit:
Have to add, after seeing FF's list, "Unlocked viridian" as well. Think I'm one badge away... wait, after the last changes, maybe I have it. Have to check. Also the INF cap bit.

Kheld-ed servers for me -
Pinnacle, Victory, Virtue, one on Guardian I keep forgetting, a 'shade on Infinity I'm working up at times, and one on Justice I keep forgetting. Think that's all of them.

/still supports removal of rep entirely, just like the star system went away.

Thanks. I knew I forgot to mention (well, pull out) something, and that was the breakfree. DR, I just *vaguely* touched on, mostly in the comment from healing and buffing. I don't have a good way of describing it other than "They're less potent as you try to build them up." Edit: Though I did try to give a bit of an overview at this point.

I may just copy (and, of course, cite) your comments directly with those. It's a good explanation. Thanks.

Siren's Call
Level: 20-30
Minigame: Control the Zone
Reward: Depending on control level, temp powers are available to purchase.
Mobs: Arachnos, Longbow, Warriors, Tsoo, Sky Raiders. (Vaguely recall grey Clockwork too.)
Other temp powers: Combat Invisibility
Zone notes: SOs at 20!

Hey, look at you! Level 20. Nice cape and new duds, too. Congrats. Guess what else you get?

You get another nice shiny... well, ok, not shiny, partially destroyed PVP zone to play in. Lucky you! Yes, from levels 20-25, you can get into two PVP zones and get XP for PVE kills and missions. Thing is... you probably *don't* want to spend a lot of time in Siren's right at 20, unless you're with a good team. Why?

You can get SOs for 6k of bounty. But you're still using DOs and TOs... and should assume everyone else is fully SO'd up. You're going to be at a bit of a disadvantage. Still, if you're up for the risk, go for it. Someone will be designated "Bounty" on the other side, and you'll see an amount for them. Kill them solo, get the full amount - yes, you need to get the "kill shot." Kill them as part of a team, you'll get the bounty split among the team.

So, you should solo, right?

Not on your life. At least not with most characters. You'll generally be safer, get more kills, and get bounty faster if you're teamed. Solo, with a few exceptions, you're going to be swarmed by someone else who *is* on a team. Typical solists will be Stalkers, some Brutes, Tanks, Scrappers, and honestly I've done decently with my Peacebringer here. Even they will fall to a team, though.

Also - ANYONE eligible gives bounty (eligible meaning you haven't fought them for a bit - just look in your PVP tab in your info box for who won't give you bounty and for how long. Yes, that tab actually does something.) Not just your "designated bounty."

Unlike bloody bay, you cannot buy inspirations here. You *CAN* earn medium size ones though - though you don't get breakfrees, you get willpower, an older inspiration that has to be used ahead of time.

Now, look at the nav bar. You'll see a divided red and blue line, and some note about "Zone control." If you control the zone (it HAS to say your faction, don't rely on the bar,) you can go to the merchant on your side and buy temp powers - temporary travel powers that last for 30 minutes from purchase (not of use,) web grenades, poison grenades, and if your side wins control twice in a row, other goodies (IR glasses for heroes, Arachnos mace for villains, as well as others.)

How do you get control?

Look at your map again. See the bright red "flash" there? That's the hotspot. There are four of them. At those hotspots, you'll see Arachnos and Longbow staring at each other... yes, they're a bit buggy at the moment. They'll stare at each other for what seems like ages (at least in the center hotspot,) then finally fight. When they do, whichever side wins moves the control a bit more to their side. Want to speed things up? Pick a fight. Go over and give a five knuckled "HI" to one of the guys on the other side, then run back, drawing them to your forces... yes, it's a risk. And yeah, players love picking on you as you're wounded... oh well... but if you get control, you get 100 bounty per battle you win (if you're at the battle.)

Honestly, though, most people seem to ignore it and hunt other players. Bounty and SOs are king here.

By the way, be sure to cash out before leaving the zone, logging, or entering a mission. You WILL lose your bounty you've collected otherwise. From my experience, this tends to be the zone you'll see the most battles in consistently.

Warburg
Level: 30-38
Minigame: Get the missile codes
Reward: Three types of nuke (one per type.)
Mobs: Longbow, Arachnos, Rogue Arachnos, Malta titans, Arachnoids
Other temp powers: Hyper Phase
Special notes: Trust no one. Missions available past level cap.

Warburg. Home of tier 9s. You have grown stronger...

But so has everyone else.

And if you're not teamed with them, you're a target. Even if they're on your "side." Warburg is a Free for All zone. Outside of a small radius near your entrance, you can be attacked by anyone you're not teamed with, even your own side. (The other side, obviously, doesn't get turned off.)

Two big plusses here:
- The nukes. Go, fight Arachnoids. Get three scientists, they'll give you their codes when you get to the bunker. Pick a type of nuke (Bio, Chemical Burn, Nuclear - they all have different effects, and AOE damage) and convert the codes, then turn up your graphics and launch the rocket. It helps vs AVs/Heroes. You can have one of each - a total of three nukes - at one time (though you have to get the codes for each and launch each, you don't get them all at once. And you can't mix and match - say, two bios and a nuke.)

- Hyper Phase. Why bother with the now-gutted (IMHO) pool power, when you can save a power choice and get this... which does the exact same thing? They both last for only 30 seconds. You have a total of two hours time using the temp power. That's 240 times... even WITH the pool power, I don't think I used it that much. It has the same four second activation, though.

Other than that, if you don't want to go to the arena, this is where you can fight others of your side using all the primary and secondary powers at your disposal.

Last but not least... the missions here continue all the way through level 50. You're exemped down to 38 in the zone (as my 39 brute remembered when I first wrote this...) but you'll fight at full level inside the missions.

Recluse's Victory
Level: 40-50
Minigame: Zone control!
Reward: Temporary mini-mech
Mobs: Lots and lots of Longbow and Arachnos.
Other temp powers: None
Special notes: Hi Ghost Widow! Can I get your autograph? No... dont' put that tentacle there, it's ok...

Epic powersets. Signature Characters. Heavies. All things that people think of with Recluse's Victory.

The spiel is this - it's an alternate dimension. There are six fortified dimensional anchors - neutral at first - that you have to defeat, then control, to control the timeline. The zone changes from Atlas Park to an Arachnos-ified Atlas Park (watch the statue of Atlas and the surrounding environment) if the villains gain control.

Once zone control is taken over, you get a bonus for villains killed, and temporal points. 1000 temporal points before the zone converts gives you a (one use) mini-Heavy.

What's a heavy? A big, walking pile of ouch. Arachnos blasters or Longbow heavies put out a lot of damage - there are three of each in the zone. Take control of one and go hunting. They're slow, but pack a wallop. The minis don't do as much damage, but are still rather interesting...

What's more interesting, though, is that once your side controls four pillboxes, the OTHER side gets reinforcements. *BIG* reinforcements. Namely, signature heroes or villains - States, Manti, Posi, Lord Recluse, GW, Mako (super-stalker with sharks,) and more. They take some serious pounding to take down.

There's no concealment power for doing a patrol - in fact, there are no missions in the zone at all, though there are exploration badges and badges for doing PVP related things (controlling heavies, pillboxes, etc.) Go in ready to fight.

Conclusion

Yes, that seems like a lot. But contrary to the picture painted by many, PVP zones aren't "filled" with people just waiting to kill you, talk trash, insult your parentage and the like. Yes, there are some jerks - but there are in any group. Remember, the worst they can do to you is remove a bunch of red pixels for a little bit. You CAN get through PVP zones... and even have fun there.

The zones

There are four PVP zones for four level ranges. Bloody Bay, Siren's Call, Warburg and Recluse's Victory. I'm not going into Arena PVP because it's a different animal entirely. We'll hit each of the zones and tell you what to expect.

In ALL the zones, though, there are some features:
- They all have exploration and time badges some people want. It's a means of attracting people to try it out.
- They all offer some sort of reward for being there.
- They all have a "mini game."
- They all have NPCs you can fight - or draw your enemies into.
- They all have a base for your faction.
- Most offer missions. (Recluse's Victory does not.)

About the base. Don't *ever* make the mistake of thinking it's a safe zone. It isn't. It's a FORTIFIED zone, yes - but as with any fortification, someone will find a way around it. It's not foolproof. Never assume you're completely safe.

I mentioned time badges. For spending a total of 5 hours (not, thank $deity, consecutive hours any more) in any PVP zone, you get a PVP time badge. Being in one of the missions in the zone does not count towards these - you have to be in the zone itself, and at risk. (Remember, the bases aren't safe, just fortified.)

Finally, if you outlevel the first two PVP zones, you'll no longer be offered missions there. You CAN, however, still go in. The zone will automatically exemplar you down to the highest level allowed - yes, you'll lose powers, but you'll be able to work off debt and earn INF and Prestige.

Note, if you skipped the last section - The level ranges are the ranges you will be exemplared down to in these zones. However, due to SSKing, assume anyone exemplared down has powers up to five levels higher. Expect to see Controller pets (level 32) in Siren's Call (Level range 20-30) for instance.

Now, the individual zones:

Bloody Bay
Level: 15-25
Minigame: Collect ore samples
Reward: A Shivan Shard (5 uses, summon Shivan Devestator elite boss. Re-obtainable.)
Mobs: Arachnos, Longbow, Freakshow, Shivans, Circle of Thorns, Banished Pantheon, sometimes Ghosts.
Other temp powers: Hyper Stealth for completing the patrol mission
Special notes: Only PVP zone you can freely buy inspirations in.

This and Warburg have the "goodie" powers most folks go after. The Shivan Shard is very useful. As a squishy, it's extra damage and distraction. It's nice having a pocket tank - and if you use it up, you can go get another one.

Before doing anything, talk to the Longbow or Arachnos liaison there. Get the Patrol mission. (I know, "I don't want to PVP." You've done PVE patrols where you click on callboxes, right? Same thing.) Why do I stress doing this? Stealth without taking a pool. 30 minutes, and it's able to be obtained up to three times. It'll make a difference, and you should be able to finish the mission in three minutes or less. Stealth is *big* here - very few people will have Tactics or other +Perception powers.

Hit the callboxes, see the operative - boom, you have stealth! It does use END like any other power. (It does also stack with Hide, by the way.) Why do you want this? Because you WANT the Shivan. Go ahead, you don't have to hide it, I know you do... even if you don't yet.

No, don't go out yet. This is the only zone you can freely purchase inspirations in. Some people complain about them - so what. Use them. Pick up some purples (for fending off Shivan attacks at the meteors,) maybe a Sturdy (TP Foe protection,) and you'll probably want some CABs and Respites if you do take damage. And never forget the Breakfree.

Now, look at your map (hit "M.") You'll see green dots scattered throughout it. Those are the locations of the meteors. Talk to the scientist/evil scientist. He'll give you another temp power (ooh, shiny.) That's your ore collector... no, don't go out yet.

Look out from your base. What do you see? (Other than perhaps the other side running around.) If you answered water, go get a cookie. For all people complain about Stalkers, especially in here, all that blue stuff is a *big* bonus against them. Why?

In a PVP zone, you must be aware of your surroundings. Including two things:
- The sound of a weapon being unsheathed (depending on the powerset) and
- the water rippling.

Yes, the water will *ripple* if someone's moving in it. Three travel powers - Superjump, Superspeed, and Teleport - will still give themselves away no matter how well they're hidden. If you play in first person or the default view... learn to zoom out a little. It'll save your neck.

I will give a little more detail on how to do the meteor mission further down. The reader's digest version is:
- Get a sample from each meteor
- Go defeat a firebase
- Use the ore processor inside to make a sample
- Return to the (evil) scientist for your reward.

If a PLAYER defeats you at any point that you have samples, they'll get your sample and you'll have to start over. If you die to a PVE mob, you won't. How will they know you have samples?

You'll glow green.

Aren't you glad I mentioned grabbing that hyper stealth power first....

Beating the Bloody Bay Minigame.

OK. You have your nice stealth power. Time to get yourself a Shivan. Yes, you can do this - even solo.

Head over to Vidiotmaps bloody bay map to take a look at the layout. The main island is in a (general) "U" shape, with forests in the east, city in the west. The hero base is to the north, the villain base in the southeast.

Scattered along the island are the two things you need to work with for this mission:
- Meteor fragments (shown as green dots) and
- Firebases (red and white rectangles.)

The first thing I do before going *anywhere* is scout the firebases. I look at the ones closest to my base - southwest for the hero base, northwest and west for the villain base.

Firebases have a bunker in the middle (with four popup antipersonnel guns) and four turrets that surround them. The turrets are what you want to pay attention to. There will be a mix of three types of turrets:
- Minion (Dual Artillery gun)
- Lieutenant (Quad Artillery Gun)
- Boss (Missile turret.)

*USUALLY* the ones nearest the base don't have Boss turrets, but that's not always the case. Look for one that's all minion, or minion and lieutenant, preferrably white and yellow - the faster you can do this, the better.

There are two key points to remember when dealing with firebases:
- The turrets don't regenerate, and
- The turrets respawn on a timer - but ONLY destroyed ones, and all at once. Damaged turrets are left as is.

Once you find a suitable base, start attacking. Take all the turrets down to a sliver of health - do NOT defeat any of them. Try not to use attacks that have a damage-over-time component to them when they get low on health. Once they're all low... go grab meteor fragments.

If you look at the map I linked to above and go to the right (forested) side, you'll see one meteor smack dab in the middle of a bunch of trees. Hello, Meteor Panch. Regardless of what you do after this, I suggest getting this one first. Why? It's the most enclosed, dangerous one to get. There are mobs around it (Banished Pantheon - some of which will pop up from the ground - and Circle of Thorns, typically.) Plus, there's a canopy above, so you can't just fly up and out of the way (or teleport, or SJ.) Enemy players can ambush you here, as well.

As I mentioned in the guide - pick up inspirations. Pop a pair of lucks as you get close - primarily to avoid NPC attacks, especially Shivans, as the "ore collection" is interruptable. Once you get this, get out of there.

For the rest of the meteors - I love having Fly, or at least Hover, and some sort of stealth. Coming at the meteors from ground level, you have to get *close,* and the Shivans will aggro on you as you get close. I've gotten "Out of Range" at 30 feet and less. If you can fly, though, you can come down, even unstealthed, and at 59 feet directly above the meteor you can collect the ore sample. The shivans sometimes wont' aggro *at all,* and if they do, it's usually too late to do anything about you having a sample.

Yes, remember, 59 feet, not yards.

The order you get the other meteors is purely up to you - I like to work my way from those farthest from my base to those closest. The Heroes have another potential trap to worry about - the Water Street meteor (Ek) is inside a scaffold-work, and it's somewhat easy to get hung up inside or have someone try to box you in.

At five meteors - find your firebase, and destroy one of the outer turrets. Since you want this to be quick, destroy a minion turret. Leave the others alone. Get your sixth meteor, and go back to the firebase... then wait.

Watch the turret you destroyed. Sometime within five minutes, it'll respawn. Destroy it again - you have five minutes from the time it respawns to destroy the other seven turrets (three outer, four machine gun on the bunker) and get into the bunker. When there, click the ore converter and book to your scientist. (Make sure it actually *converts* the ore - you'll go from a set of six samples to a single one.)

The bunker, as you see, is another great place to be ambushed - just two single-character-sized exits. Don't waste time. Convert and go. If you click on something that says "Firebase defenses inactive," go around the pillair in the middle and click on the ore converter instead.

When you meet the scientist, he'll take the sample and give you a Shivan Shard. You now have your own pet Elite Boss Jello-tank.

Power and character changes in PVP

Yeah. This is the new section that's going to throw you, as a PVE player, off. It will throw you off BADLY. It's a somewhat complex mesh of suppression of powers, defense going into resists - just be prepared for some things not to work the way you're used to.

Quick link, if you want the patch notes o'doom - Issue 13 patch notes.

Travel powers

This is, to me, probably the least worrisome of the changes, with one exception. Travel powers suppress for a few seconds when you attack or are attacked. Honestly, I've never been bothered by them, with one exception:

Teleport.

All other travel powers slow down somewhat. Fly's still nice, as it takes a lot to bring a flier back down to earth. Teleport, however, gets shut down completely. If you're a Warshade, or a Peacebringer relying on dwarf, this will hurt you badly.

Even a non-teleporter can see what happens, if they have the Black Market/Wentworths teleporter, Mission teleporter or the like. Just watch when you attack, say, a Shivan - it will grey out and be unavailable for a few seconds. (The teleporter, not the shivan.) Now imagine having Teleport as your only travel power, and needing to get away JUST for a second...If you're a teleporter, invest in a jet pack so you have some sort of backup.

Why was this done? Well, take some heart, even powers-guy Castle isn't happy with that situation from his own account. Initially the plan was to have Teleport's range reduced, reducing its "speed" similar to other powers. The problem, though, was that the range just on teleport couldn't be reduced - reducing it reduced the range of every single power on that character. So, for now, it just gets shut down.

Related to this is TP Foe. Likely in response to complaints about TP Foe-ing into "death traps," or "TP Foe chains," the target of a TP Foe (on arrival) is untouchable for a short period of time, allowing them to get away from whatever the problem is (with suppression considered, above.)

Oh. Sturdies no longer protect against TP Foe.

Status Effects

I was going to label this "holds," but this affects everyone that stuns, disorients, etc. This, alone, has reduced the effectiveness of my Energy/Energy brute, who formerly got many, many comments about the nasty stuns she put out.

First, holds will take hold, no matter what. Have a nice tank with stacked Mag 20 mez protection? You don't have mez protection, you have mez resistance/ If the hold hits, you will be held. Controllers and Dominators have a base of 4 seconds on an otherwise unprotected target, others get two. This time can be increased by domination and slotting, and decreased by what WAS your mez protection.

This will catch your tank/stalker/brute/scrapper by surprise if you're not aware of it - so don't just bounce by those Ink men and Agony Mages any more. Pay attention.

That hold time does also mean holding can be difficult for a controller or dominator. I've heard dominators described, recently, as redside blasters in PVP. Don't ignore your secondary.

Support and decay

Here's one of the places you'll find yourself hit by the I13 changes. Buffs (self applied and external) are subject to what's known as Diminishing Returns. In essence, each similar sort of buff, when applied, gives less and less of an effect to the recipient. Heals are where it's probably most noticable without pulling up the numbers - if someone heals you for (say) 150 HP, the next application of the exact same heal (assuming it's slotted the same,) if applied too soon after, may only heal 120, then 90 and so forth.

On the plus side, everyone gets some base damage resistance, even if they normally wouldn't have it in PVE. In fact, those that don't typically HAVE their own source of resistance (such as blasters or corruptors) have the highest base resistance. This is meant to help even out the playing field overall. However, the caps that can be reached are different for each AT as well. And reaching those caps is another place you'll run into diminishing returns, as each buff grants less and less as it stacks.

(I want to say offensive debuffing toggles, such as lingering radiation, have a timer on them now, but I can't find the note. This obviously wouldn't apply to something like steamy mist or blazing aura.)

Really, if you want to get deep down into the numbers on this, I'd point you first to paragonwiki (and their PVP page,) then down into the PVP forums.

Super Sidekicking (Issue 16) and PVP zones

This is - well, another place to say "Be careful." With Issue 16, Super Sidekicking came in. It's a nice little feature that eliminates the whole "mentor shuffle." As a bonus, exemplared down players now have access to powers up to five levels above their exemplared level. So, you can run the Positron task force and still have Stamina, if you took it at 20!

Now think about that with a PVP zone. In Bloody Bay, you'll have people using level 30 powers. In Siren's Call, which used to top out at 30, you'll have people with a full primary, including tier 9 (controllers, you have your pets,) and nearly full secondary. Patron and Anciliary powers in Warburg. It's like the upper level got ratcheted up in all zones - which isn't so bad in the higher levels, but for a lowbie just coming into the zones (especially Bloody Bay,) it's quite the power gap.

Just be aware of it. And be more careful in BB if you're 15-20. Get a team.


Drops

One other change - welcome to some, not to others, but generally well received - is that players have a chance of providing "drops." You will get XP and Inf, could get an inspiration, and have a chance at a PVP recipe. Note these are not TAKEN from the defeated player - I could go in with absolutely nothing, get defeated, and have the winner get an inspiration and a PVP IO recipe from me. It makes no difference to the defeated player at all.

I know this sounds like a lot of "Be careful, danger danger!" And in a way it is. Things are MUCH different in PVP zones (and some of these can be changed in the arena, as well.) Be aware of them - but don't be scared off by them. If you want more in-depth "what can I expect," head down to the PVP section of the boards and ask the people that live and breathe them.

Before you step into the zones, prepare.

Before I get into a description of the individual zones, I have to say this - go in prepared.

"But I'm not a PVPer, I don't want to pick up stealth, spend 10 mill on a Stealth IO, etc!" You don't have to. Yes, those who are more into PVP will try to stack the odds against you. They'll have the concealment pool, stealth IOs, tactics to try to break stealth, movement counters, the works.

Don't worry about it.

What does the good PVE'er do when they're about to face an Elite Boss or Archvillain/Hero? They prepare. Even without a team, they'll stock up on inspirations and whatever else they need to come out on top in the coming battle.

Think of PVPers as *really tough* Archvillains.

What can you do?

1. Enhancements. Accuracy is a big plus. I don't care if you can one-shot the entire Freedom Phalanx, you have to be able to hit first. If you feel like bumping up your enhancements, work on these.

Don't forget, if you have sets, the bonuses will disappear when exemplared down, as the zones will do. To copy the relevant section from Black_Specter's excellent guide:

The PVEer's PVP zone survival guide 3.0

This guide got a good reception the first few times around. It's now Issue 16. I had considered a bit of a rewrite to 2.0 for issue 13, and never got around to it. Honestly, it's mostly due to the vast changes from Issue 13, various bits of math I don't want to think about, and just a lot of back and forth.

Issue 16 added a change in how sidekicking works that adds more consideration in PVP zones, as well - SK'd higher levels are going to be at more of an advantage in zones, IMHO. Teleport hasn't been changed since I13's suppression (and yes, it affects all forms of teleport - it got distracting seeing my base, Wentworth's, mission, etc. teleporters all wink out when I attacked something.) Still, it's time for an update. Much of the guide will be cut and pasted from 2.0, since a lot of it really doesn't NEED an update, but there is more to be aware of. So without further ado, here's the PVEer's PVP survival guide, version 3.

As always, those that live in the zones, if you see something that can be explained better or looks really mucked up, feel free to tell me and I'll change it. I want the zones alive, as well, after all - even with us "casual" folks. Round three - FIGHT!

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So, there you are. Level 15, and being sent to someone called a "Warzone liason." He tells you all about the existance of this thing called a "PVP zone." For whatever reason - you don't feel like PVPing, but decide to check it out. Can you do it?

Yep.

Contrary to popular belief, not everyone gets a team of stalkers (if you're a hero) or ice/energy blappers (if you're a villain) assigned to them as soon as they enter the zones. The zones can be fun, and they can give some useful boosts - they can also be chaotic, and quite a shock to the unprepared player.

This guide is here to help you get in and out - though who knows, you might decide to stick around and play. Yes, there are other PVP guides here, but this is really aimed more at the PVE oriented crowd who just want to get in and out. (And yes, you should try PVP anyway...)

Who the heck are you to tell me this?

Memphis Bill. Nice to meet you. Been here since I3, played every AT to some extent. Yes, I PVP. No, I'm not one of the hardcore PVPers, and I'm reasonably sure I lose more than I win - on the other hand, I have fun, and can avoid notice if so desired the majority of the time.

As far as PVP and my attitude toward it?

I started PVPing waaay back in the 90s, playing Netmech/DOS over a modem - first with one other person, then with a group in the Registry (raises a glass of 'schlager to the Black Sheep.) Yep. Predated Win95. I had a *blast* then - when you take out an "uber" gunboat 'mech with a little thing half its size loaded with machineguns, or take out a 100 ton Clan Omnimech with your 1 ton Elemental (ok, by making the player shoot their own legs out trying to get to you, or falling on them from a mile or two up... but I still won,) it's amusing.

Unfortunately, Diablo soured me on PVP - not least because it wasn't "true" PVP, but a collection of hacks allowing people to kill and loot you in town. Diablo II didn't improve matters, and I came to see PVP as something I flat out did not want in any game I played. I refused to see PVPers as anything more than a bunch of immature brats I didn't want to deal with, figuring the group I'd played with was the exception.

Then along came City of Heroes. I'll admit, the lack of PVP was a draw for me. As much as the lack of loot, not needing the Uber Armor of Uberness to be useful, the costume creator, the story arcs, and last but certainly not least, the community. The arena got introduced to yawns...

Then came City of Villains beta. And they wanted people to test out the PVP zones... And there I was, in lag city, battling it out, hunting one of my best friends, trying to make tactical decisions (find the defender that's healing everyone) without getting killed myself. I was interested. When it went live, I took my lvl 15 brute into Bloody bay, and had a great time... then had a horrible time due to one group of people. I nearly swore off PVP... but I recalled, I *had* been having a good time. I went back in and, to be honest? I've had *far* more good experiences with good people than bad experiences with jerks.

And that's part of why I'm writing this. I want to help you have a good experience in the PVP zones.

OK, ok, fine. So what's all this about PVP?

PVP. Player versus Player. The enemies you've fought in-game so far are PVE - Player versus Environment. They don't hold a grudge. They aren't all that skilled. You get used to their routines and figure out how to take them out, and you level.

People don't have that weakness, usually. They will see you, remember you killed them last week, and set out to even the score. They'll get angry. They'll get cocky. They'll laugh as they die, they'll chat to see what happened. They'll be a challenge.

There's something you must remember going into the zones, though. PVP is not "Fair." Five villains kill you and ignore the tank? Of course they do! You've got fewer defenses, and buff that tank! Take it as a lesson, or a compliment... you're a bigger threat than that walking bag of hit points.

"Fair" exists (to the extent it can) in the arena. In the PVP zones, it's "Do what you have to to survive." Sound cutthroat? Perhaps it is - but it's not that bad, at the same time.