Memphis_Bill
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Posts
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Joined
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So, a while back, I set myself a project - I was heavily playing some ATs (Khelds, Defenders, Controllers) and leaving some others to languish. I decided to get one of each AT to 50.
Admittedly, I was over halfway there when I decided to, and this wasn't a "concentrate on this and only this" type of project. With all those alts (and more made since starting it) there's just no way.
However, I finally finished this up yesterday - exactly five years since getting my first 50. (Well, five years and some hours, to be nitpicky.) Finished with a Fire/Kin/Soul Corruptor over on Justice, at 155 hours. Not heavily IOd (a bit more on the solo build, the team build is almost purely SOs and common IOs) but that's not unusual for me.
By comparison, the first 50 was an Elec/Elec/Fire blaster back in Issue 4, who took 500+ hours to get to 50. Pre-ED, pre-GDN, pre-villains, pre-IO... and of course having all sorts of fun with the debt starting at 50, no debt relief, the original Hollows spawns (and "sudden spawns of +6 appear around you,") running out of content at 37 or so and having to grind to 40 and the like. (I still have a copy of the character at 38 on test!)
So, having run through all them - I definitely like my squishies. I have more of them by far than melee, I like my range, I like control. When I'm *in* melee, I tend to prefer tanks, with brutes coming up a close second (fury>crits for fun for me.) Still not fond of VEATs, though I'm sure over half that is disappointment in their arcs - a crab's being entertaining to play currently. Still love my Khelds.
Total? 20 50s right now. One of each, two Blasters, two Controllers, three Defenders, two Tanks and two Peacebringers. In the wings, at 40+, another Defender, Controller, and Dominator.
Next up? Casually working on one of each Tank primary to 50. I've got them scattered around, but both my 50s there are Fire/ (/SS and /EM) so it's time to get working on those. (I've run one of each control set past 32. Not taking Illusion to 50, just don't like it, but the rest will make it, I'm sure.)
Interesting to anyone else? Probably not.
But it was a fun little goal in and of itself (and might give ideas to the other altaholics who find themselves stalled out without something at higher level - give yourself a project!)
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Quote:And this has been the case since it was introduced. Yes, initially I'm sure people converted - we had a bunch of 50s with nothing to spend INF on. Hami-os? Gotten through raids. No market. No IOs. No salvage. Even then, it wasn't seen as a great "investment" past some startup cash (remember, bases were new.)Originally Posted by FourSpeed
Put me in the category that feels they should revisit the conversion rate.
The wrinkle that has been pointed out but continually gets glossed over
is: For all practical intents and purposes, nobody converts Inf -> Prestige -
it's simply not worthwhile.
Now? That rate isn't attractive at all. Does it destroy INF? Sure - if anyone bothers to use it. If essentially nobody does, then it's not an effective INF sink.
We could use an overall base issue -
- New editor
- New base "stuff to do"
- New base items
- New layouts (yes, I know, we have a rectangular floor plan - why restrict it to that?)
- Larger transporters
- More flexible rooms
- More steps between "combo generator" and "big generator/control"
Make the rate one attractive enough to use and it'll be a far more effective sink. -
Zucchini nostril trill battery run chartreuse?
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Quote:Um... if you've been paying every two weeks, youv'e been overpaying. Due every four, and for all intents and purposes, every six, for as long as I can remember.Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
At least rent is no longer 2% of your total SG net value (due every two weeks!)
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Quote:Fix't. It doesn't have to be a large SG. Smaller SGs with people on (and in SG mode!) can also afford pretty decent bases pretty quickly.Originally Posted by Liz BathoryBases like this must be earned.. by hard work and playing. Prestige on an active sg is almost limitless.
This is true. However, the Inf:Prestige conversion is so bad that I doubt anybody does it more than once or twice. That conversion rate needs to be revisited. Make the rate better (without being something like 2:! or 3:1, since we *do* want it to be an INF sink, but without it being the current 500:1) and people will use it.Quote:Originally Posted by Sailboat
The ratio of Inf required to purchase Prestige isn't really supposed to be about getting you more Prestige; it's about destroying Inf. It's one of the few Inf. sinks in the game (and they really need more to combat rampant mudflation.) -
Quote:This, especially - Don't think I've seen a purple in months. I've run across one PVP IO and that was near their introduction - had I held on to that, I'd have made much more INF.Originally Posted by Father Xmas
But it takes time and sometimes a luck of the drop.
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They haven't made one that scales and looks decent with all the body types and sizes. That, I believe, is what's keeping us from *having* one. (Temp powers aren't held to quite the same standard as costume bits.)
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Quote:Well, while it would be useful, you *can* look up the player (/sea, type in name.) That functionality doesn't exist for SGs - and the Sg lookup at the registrar is useless. I've been wanting that list/interface changed for a while.Originally Posted by MrNotorion
What does it matter? It doesn't. I just thought it would be nice to have that kind of information to make the decision with.
Along the same lines - why wouldn't the team invite window say more than, "Panty Waster is inviting you to join a team?" Wouldn't, "Panty Waster, a lvl 50 scrapper, is inviting you to be the 6th member of a team fighting at level 45," be more useful? -
Malta stuns are the same way. Those have incredibly long duration. Oy.
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Quote:Ahh. That, I see what you're saying - I can't say I'd see it as a regular worry (outside, say, groups like RO.) The "Call ambushes at life level" (though I can't think of it being too often) I could see being problematic, unless the "arrest timer" is viewed as the same as the life bar (time left/life %) for that situation.Originally Posted by TwilightPhoenix
Agreed the solo Controller outside of the multi-billion inf perma-Dom probably won't be solo-holding AVs and the like and thus solo-ing them by themselves (well, unless you added Samuel's lingering mez effects without snipping the duration of every hold power in the game, then it'd be much easier. But I already talked about that earlier). I'm more concerned about a group of Controllers, regardless of SOs or multi-billion purpvped IOs, able to just waltz up to an AV/GM, spam some holds until they get held through protection, and call it a day. Even if it took thirty minutes, it'd still be safer than any other option, ESPECIALLY if said target normally calls ambushes when their life hits a certain amount. As long as nobody slotted their holds for damage or used non-damage ones, keeping damage below regen rate shouldn't be too difficult.
... that said, - "Even if it took 30 minutes, it'd still be safer" (looking at a GM,) - why is that an issue? I mean, I can round up a team and most can take down a GM in much less time than that. PUGGing the other night (maybe a week,) we went through four GMs in maybe 15 minutes (a chunk of that being travel time, and waiting for me to come back from a system lock.) Now, if the alternative option is 30 minutes a piece in complete safety, that would be two hours to do the same. I can't see that as a problem, as - well, it's doing much oc the same as Dr. Mike's "speed for safety" comments. Swapping pure damage for Controllers would still be faster (well, to a point.) Taking advantage of debuffs will still tilt it more in favor of damage and debuffs.
I'll also admit to discounting worries about "teams of controllers" doing anything. Could they do more? Sure. How often (outside of theme teams/nights) do you really see them in the wild? Given how long RO has been out doing things (and not getting ATs or powersets nerfed as a result - Green Machine turning Empaths into "regen blasters," for instance, which was a heck of a lot of fun) I can't see that as being high on the list of worries, or turning into a FOTM team you'll see popping up all over suddenly. -
Welcome in! Player guides are over there, player questions a bit to the right, ATs the next floor up, and feel free to visit the various server forums to find your favourite flavor of crazy (or do what I do and try them all.)
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Quote:OK. Are you feeling sick? We're not arguing. SOMETHING must be wrong!Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
If you make the held time required anything higher than 30 seconds for a minion, then you would instantly assure that just holding enemies to death would automatically be the slower way to do it.
The way you talk, I'm not sure you've ever been on a high-level TF. Enemies drop like flies. It wouldn't take a very long timer to make damage the "fast" way. My Fire/Dark solo drops entire groups in less than 30 seconds.
Anyway, TP, I think you need to reread what I've been saying. By the time you get to the upper levels, this just isn't going to be an issue. It really is set up where the biggest benefit is going to be lower levels. The amount needed does scale - and don't forget, AVs (such as your Reichsman example) have PTOD, giving them a bigger chance of breaking out even if they DO get held (and not everyone's running around with permadom, high recharge holds.)
Damage ATs are still going to outpace this, from level 1 on. It's not going to make Controllers suddenly turn into overpowered arresting machines. The answer to pretty much all your hypothetical questions will still be "Because it will go faster." -
Quote:The Incarnate system is issue 19. You weren't "cheated" of anything but a sneak peek, and they obviously want that first look to be great. Since it wasn't up to expectations... you wait and get something better.Originally Posted by Bronze Knight
I was referring to the content that we will have to pay for. Tip missions are free with I18 IDK about the side switching. Even so more things for L50s to do was a big thing for me with GR with that being cut... well it just feels like I was cheated.
Doesn't sound "cheated" to me. -
Quote:I believe those were part of the later COH comics. I seem to remember that grouping of the BP's deities.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Good god... Who drew these? Is that a professional comic book?
Edit - yep. Top cow run, #15. -
Quote:Both listed. *points up*Originally Posted by PennyPA
What about then the changes in GR then with sending to the other side and market merge?
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Quote:I still can't agree, though. I just don't see it having an impact - if it did anything, it would (I'd think) *lessen* demand, again if it actually had any effect. Why?Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Memphis,
Yes, we are told that one player cannot manipulate the market to the point that it becomes unreasonable. This is because with different people doing different things, nobody is working towards the same point. It is also because few people are doing this, and most people are still putting things up for fairly cheap prices. As such, you have a majority self-correcting the attempt to manipulate, which causes it to fail.
However, if you add to that the ability for EVERYONE, with no effort, to hold things off the market to a large extent (especially if going by the OP's 1,000 salvage case, versus the 20 that we can do now) and you get a different beast at work.
Right now, I am betting that relatively few people use the e-mail feature to store salvage, since it's a non-intuitive use of the system. Make a system that is specifically designed to hold a large amount of salvage across your account, and more people will use it.
As such, you would be removing items from the market that would otherwise go into it, which would lower demand. Most people would only hold onto rare salvage, since that is the rarest and most valuable. Right now, I tend to put any rare salvage I don't need on the market, because I know that the influence will likely be more valuable to me in the long run, allowing me to buy any other rare salvage I need, or even the same item later on if I need it. Allow me to universally store a large amount of rare salvage, and holding onto it becomes more useful in the long run. So you'd remove my desire to put even unwanted items on the market. If the storage is large enough that I am unlikely to run out of space before I get the item that I want, then there is no downside to holding onto my items.
A large enough storage space would indeed affect the market. The easier it is to use, the more it would affect the market.
Current situation:
I have Memphis Bill on Pinnacle. Runs through a map, gets a nice string of (say) three Mu Vestments. He has no use for them right now, so I'll do a combination of some of the below things:
- Put in personal storage.
- Put in SG storage (we do share salvage this way,)
- Come next issue, put in email.
- Give to a friend who is trying to get IOs made.
- Put on the market for 5 inf. (My typical pricing. Also generally my last choice.)
However, my Brute on Virtue could really use this, and has lousy luck with drops. Do I go to the market to buy it? Nope, since I don't like where they're priced. I can wait and *maybe* get one, or kill time in MA and get one for 500 tickets, bypassing the market completely.
Global storage solution:
Same vestments drop. Same options - plus one. Drop in personal "global storage." Log into brute, and pick it up.
I still just don't see this having any noticable negative impact on the market (especially with the upcoming merge.) If the reaction is to keep salvage for yourself - which, for me, it already is, keeping for myself or my SG/friends in many instances - then perhaps the people using the market (both bidders and sellers) need to reexamine their bids/ask prices.
(Again, I think 1000 salvage pieces would be too much, yes, but other than that, no problem with the idea.) -
Quote:I think my main concern is where they'd have the potential to pop up, quite honestly. (Again, see the "Stop X from escaping" example. Having it happen *there* would be like - is it Crimson? Don't recall - spawn 50 feet from the elevator. You see him, he runs, you lose almost before you can do anything.)Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Well, for me, it would be, since it's one of the few times you actually need to pay attention to what is happening to you in the game. Most of the game is easy enough that you can just mash buttons if you want to. You won't be the most efficient doing that, but you can.
Fighting Succubi is one of the few times I actually care about watching my status bar. I'm not saying make them pop up all over the place, but I think having a few more mob types that can do this would be fun.
I wouldn't mind having more... *interesting* things happen. Especially finding alternative, non-combat ways to get through missions (besides stealthing to a glowie,) or having interesting effects happen. This just hasn't really sold me as sounding fun, personally. -
Quote:Head back and read over the - *checks* third post of mine, first in reply to DrMike. I think that'd address some of your concerns here. As far as Dominators (and I happen to love playing doms. Come GR, I'm going to have quite a few making their way blueside,) I think they'll "grow out of it" faster, given the Assault sets' focus on damage - but would still get benefit out of it in the early levels.Originally Posted by Kelenar
2. This would be problematic for dominators in non-AV stuff, too, since it'd basically turn a dominate-powered hold into a one-hit boss killer. It'd add a pretty substantial amount to their damage outside of domination, too. My Volcanic Gasses would basically be a set-it-and-forget-it nuke. If it doesn't apply to only holds, then you start getting things like AoE insta-kills every 30 seconds on perma-doms. While there are complains about controller damage, I haven't really seen any of those for dominators.
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Quote:I'm trying to think of why you'd' think it would be. Could you expand on why this would be unbalanced for teaming - when you'd likely have enough additional damage coming along that you wouldn't notice the effect?Originally Posted by RabidBrian
EDIT: read your second post about the no AoE's and that helps with balance, but I still think its definitely unbalanced for teaming.
Not ignoring DrMike there. I just think we're at the "not going to agree" point, and that's fine. Thanks.
Actually, this does sound - very similar, and more universal. Similar, as well, in that on a team (that's not control-heavy) you're going to see damage outpace this control bar.Quote:Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow2) Give enemies a "control bar" next to their health. Each control effect brings the bar down a few units and it regenerates on its own slowly. Bring the bar to zero and the target is defeated through holding. I've actually done some work to try and implement this as a way to make holds less binary, but this isn't the right thread for that. -
Quote:Sorry, Aett, I don't tend to list "Back off and stay out of the fight so you don't kill your teammates" as interesting, any more than, say, random targeting of all targetable objects (friend and foe) would be.Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
I'd love to see more confuse or taunt-like effects in the game. Confusion from the Succubi is definitely interesting, to say the least.
I get hit with a confuse, I'm standing around doing nothing.
File under "not fun." (Cross reference to "Jack would call it fun.")
I do also agree with the "I don't want to be treated as being as dumb as the AI" sentiment. Someone yelling "Hey, your mama wears combat boots" at me is not going to make me suddenly ignore the high-threat target I'm dealing with *right now.* (And just imagine that taunt getting mixed with a "Stop X from escaping!" mission.) -
Quote:Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Counterpoint: Engine does work like that in PvP.And it's irritating in PVP. Plus - what if you don't have, or don't have much, splash damage? Or the one taunting you is out of the way of the others you're really needing to hit *right now*?Quote:Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I don't get why that would be a bad thing. Make the recharge time longer than the duration and you can still use AoEs to splash damage the surrounding spawn.
If it were ever implemented, it would have to be used very sparingly. It's one thing when you have the damage (a la BZB ) to just say "oh, you want to die first instead of third. Ok, then." It's another when you're a squishy that is going to be going down *fast* if you don't get the boss tied down, but something Sapper-level (and common) draws you away at the wrong time. (And since the devs would likely want this to remain some sort of threat, they'd probably do something *fun* (cough) like give them Arachnos-Widow-like mez resists.)
Also, how would this affect toggles? I don't mean armor, I mean things like Rad toggles. Becoming the target of a taunt could absolutely neuter some powersets (given the love the AI has of running, as well.)
Would it give some variety? Yes. Would it be fun? In my book... it sounds like it'd be irritating more than anything. (I've also got its mirror image in mind, Placate - where "I'd like to attack you, since you're chasing me, but I can't." See also Bane Scout.) -
Quote:Well - to use your own words, you *are* grossly oversimplifying two ATs. Though I'll be honest, it may seem seem moreso to me since I tend to find myself playing the control-heavy as opposed to damage-damage blasters.Originally Posted by DrMike2000
I don't like this at all.
To grossly over-simplify to two archetypes:
A Controller is by design a low damage (ie many actions to arrest) archetype. In exchange for this they get the ability to temporarily neutralise an enemy. One action to stop temporarily, many actions to stop permanently. Solo, this requires juggling a small group - keep number 1 busy for the next 20 seconds, then number 2, then number 3, then back to number one. Quick lockdown, long defeat, multi-tasking concentration requires.
In comparison a Blaster has few actions to stop permanently, but no way of stopping temporarily. This requires serial processing. Focus on number 1 till they fall over, then number 2o, and so on. It's generally faster but riskier because you stop all incoming damage less quickly.
What you're effectively asking for is to have Controllers require fewer actions to defeat outright, which upsets this balance.
Applying damage from multiple holds doesn't have to mean you're actually damaging the target. Its just you need to reinforce the vines or ice or mental block or whatever a few times to make sure they stay put.
What we could have is alternate death animations attached to a Control attack, without changing a single game mechanic. Instead of falling over, the defeated target remains encased in ice/earth/vines whatever before fading away. Ice? Rather control heavy. Electric? Also, actually, rather control heavy (paired with /elec, at least.) While this could kick in with them, even if it did, they've got enough straight damage to make it unnoticeable.
Plus, of course, blasters quite often aren't running single target but multiples, and doing the rapid damage to defeat a group of enemies at once. Fire/fire is almost the poster child for this, but we're also looking at (to varying extents) most other blaster builds.
And, honestly, this isn't just a controller (and dominator) item, as it could also affect some Defenders (Elec and Dark miasma jump to mind.) Any others I can think of that could see this mechanic actually kick in have more damage over the top of it - the enemy would probably be defeated before they got any real benefit from it. (Mastermind, blaster, APPs for tanks, etc.)
I'd disagree with just giving an alternate death (defeat) animation as an alternative. Part of what I'm looking at is, after all, speeding up lower levels a bit. As I was thinking this up, I was thinking primarily of the single-target hold with this, as opposed to the AOEs - hitting Glacier would continue a Block of Ice timer, for instance, but not *start* the timer, necessarily. (Alternately, even if it did, it would not be sustainable on more than a couple without a solid eye on recharge - which tends to kick in past the point where this would be noticably helpful.) By the time you're at the place where you can juggle multiple groups of enemies, you wouldn't notice the assistance from this quite so much - containment, our controls and pets and the like have taken over the role.
(Somehow, I still don't think I have what's in my head with this explained quite properly. Then again, it's mostly thrown out there in a "this could be interesting" spirit.) -
Quote:If I can agree with EvilGeko on occasion, I can agree with you every once in a while. So nyah.Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
Dangit Bill, what did I say about agreeing with me?
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Quote:Thinking about it a bit -Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
It's an interesting idea, certainly. Not 100% sure how or if it could be implemented however...
When a hold takes effect, a timer starts, just like the one we get (though not necessarily in the same space) for, say, "Get data from computer" or "Open the crate." It's interruptable by the hold wearing off or being broken.
If the timer reaches 0, the enemy is arrested (defeated.) -
OK. Not sure what you'd call it villainside.
A thought came to mind while running my lowbie Ice/Cold Controller. One of the reasons Containment was put in was to help with Controller damage - and there's still complaints, on occasion, about leveling speed and whatnot.
I started thinking of APB. There's a (rather annoying, at times...) mechanic where Enforcers (freelance police - honestly, vigilantes) can stun an opposing player and, if they get there in time, can "arrest" them - if the player isn't freed by a teammate within several seconds, they're defeated ("Arrested") and have to respawn.
So - for PVE, at least - why not bring that mechanic here? (This being a PVE mechanic. PVP, I'm not sure how it would work out, other than being lopsidedly against most squishies.)
Essentially, it's this - if you can maintain a hold (say, 2 hold cycles? Numbers to be adjusted of course, and rank affects it, but 2 picked since 3 will straight up defeat a minion on its own at the very low levels) on a single enemy, that enemy will be defeated (arrested.) You do, of course, still get containment damage, so if you want to go the straight-damage route, you're still able to. But if you maintain a hold on one enemy while fighting the other two in a typical spawn, you can defeat both more quickly.
It's more of use low-to-mid level in solo to small groups. Though it would be interesting to defeat an EB or higher this way, if you could. Also, this isn't limited to Controllers/Dominators - Blasters, Defenders and Corruptors all have sets (or some sets) with holds in them, though blasters don't exactly need the help given their damage focus.
Just tossing it out there. Hammer away.
Edit: To make things interesting for others, throw in a badge set. "Mace," "Less than lethal," "cuff 'em," etc. Yes, it would put it off a bit for melee types, but most - I think scrappers are the only ones missing this - would still be able to get it later with APP/EPP holds. Let temp powers count toward it as well. (Yes, I know, I pick on badgers, but I'm trying to be fair to those who'd want to chase it on a melee AT as well by letting temps count.)
It's also an alternate for those tired of the "Damage is all that counts" mentality - now there's an alternate way to defeat enemies. And if you think hitting with a broadsword isn't heroic, well, a new path for you!