Memphis_Bill

... though I'd advise against that. It's great for yanking a Void out of a group, slapping a hold on them and/or watching them start to stagger from Inky as you start attacking. Good for other problematic foes, too.

Season to taste, as always.

Right. Because everyone posts about every opinion they have, positive or negative, and everyone in game posts on the forum, so reading through forum posts is the PERFECT way to gauge opinions on everything, accurately!

If that were the case, I'd never buy a product from anyone, because *people post to ***** about things they don't like* FAR more than they just hop on to say "Hey, just so you know, I liked XYZ."

So people that don't like KB say things, and people that don't like it don't say anything - but hey, you don't want to give the people that DO like it the same courtesy.

Better pay attention to who you're actually replying to before you make utterly moronic statements such as this. Especially when you make them to someone who's pointed out, multiple times, having every AT to 50, having well over 200 characters on two accounts. Think I MIGHT, POSSIBLY, be somewhat familiar with the powersets available?

Bad wording on my part. Their attacks will be doing more damage than the controls you're worried about.

It appears I have to dumb this down for you.

If I hit a mob with an attack doing KB, it does nothing to any status effect (other than sleep. They may get an attack off with Fear, but if I'm not in range, no.)

They take damage.

They do not lose the status effect that is applied to them.

If they ARE at the end of the status effect's time, they'll STILL have to get up and move back into range - at which point they're probably STILL targeted by the person using the KB attack, and are STILL taking damage.

Simple enough for even you to understand?

Point out where I even implied that that was the case I was talking about.

But not likely past the single-digit levels, unless you're (a) dealing with a resistant group or (b) holding a boss, at which point their minions are wiped out and everyone can concentrate on them.

So, wait, you try to take me to task for "assuming," supposedly, that everyone's buffed, has a permadom, or is on a steamrolling team, but you're fine "assuming" there's a ton of AOE flying around. Right.

Why don't you also *assume,* genius, that the target that's been hit by the attack doing the KB is *still being attacked and likely being defeated at the same time?*

Or is that too much common sense for you?

Except, of course, that they're likely STILL BEING ATTACKED. Even if the effects wear out and they *aren't,* they've got to recover from being knocked back (not down, back takes longer,) get up, and get back into range. And unless everyone's gone AFK, they're getting no support from the rest of the spawn.

Yeah, right. Because, of course, they're not having anything else done to them. They take no damage whatsoever. They're not being attacked any more...

Oh, wait, you mean they ARE? Imagine that.

And of COURSE all KB, no matter what direction it comes from, does nothing but knock mobs OUT of any AOE. Yep. Nobody has ever managed to knock someone back INTO it. Nope. Never.

So, recapping:

(a) The mob gets KB'd into the control/debuff patch. They take damage and die. "Ebil KB!" Wait, no, useful KB.

(b) The mob DOESN't get KB'd. They take damage. They die.

... and the problem is what again? That they die in a slightly different location? They didn't die from YOUR AOE? Oh no.

I can only assume that the only people you've played with did nothing but slot their powers with 3 acc/3 KB and randomly change targets between every single shot the way you talk.

If you're looking at ToT zombies - no debt protection.
If you're looking at event zombies - there is. Or is supposed to be. Just had one not too long ago on Pinn, and yeah, there's no debt protection showing.

They're not hard to maintain *now.* In addition, I can concentrate on only a few if I so choose, or if someone comes by (they get hung up on geometry, etc) they're not SOL until the buff's back up. Plus, teams split - I don't mean heading to one side of the map vs another, but melee staying in melee, range staying at range. Individual buffs, I can hit them all. One big AOE, only some get them - or none at all. Last but not least, if I'm low on END and buffs are running out, I can re-buff the ones that need it *now* and worry about the others later.

I can't do that with one big AOE buff. I dislike single-big-AOE buffs. I've run rad, I've run Empathy, I know how single-big-AOE buffs work. I'd MUCH rather do the individual ones with, say, FF, Sonic and Thermal.

So, no, for me they wouldn't be easier to use.
Uh... how would having a team buff be AOE vs individual help soloing? Hell, those heavy-Team sets are a godsend to me soloing, as I can set up a second build, completely *ignore* those buffs and take other pools that will only help me out more - for concept or other reasons. (Presence, Leadership, Stealth, etc.) It's part of why I *like* taking them for soloing, as it is.

They're not difficult to maintain *now* on a team, they don't take all that much time to apply. I do *not* like the idea of changing them to AOEs.

How? Without them saying it, the only way you can be "pretty sure" is either assuming everyone's exactly like you - which is one hell of an assumption - or claiming you're psychic.

Are you claiming to be psychic?

... which, as has been stated *multiple* times, is a case of "not paying attention to what you do" as opposed to knockback. The same holds true for Hurricane, Force bubble, Repel - even AOE Immobs (I've seen people just spam them, spreading out what would have been a nice, tight pull onto, say, an ice patch or around a tank into a long line of immobed enemies.)

.... uh... yeah. As someone who plays beaucoup controllers and doms, how do you figure that? KB - any damage - breaks sleep. Stun? No. Holds? No. Confuses? No. They are going to be taking damage from a higher-damage AT.

So... how are they taking less damage, or being given more of a chance to fight back?

Not if (a) the mob being KB'd gets KB'd INTO/ONTO the control patch, or (b) takes damage, then takes more damage (likely from the same source) as they're getting KB'd and dies.

And I vehemently disagree that they should be done for all buffs for everyone - which presents a problem with the mastermind pets, as I don't believe there's any mechanism in place to really determine that (or determine "my pets" from "someone else's pets,") plus TBH I don't want that to lead into "do that for everyone."

So. Actual game situation.

I've gone out and cleared the map. I'm about to face an EB or AV with AOE attacks. This is one of those irritating multi-level maps.

AV one-shots or two-shots my minions.

I now have to run back outside "somewhere," re-brainwash six minions, hope they get inside without getting hit with the "uncontrollable pet" MM bug, and get them back to the AV - who all this time has been regenerating health.

.... no.

Because he can't GET IT NAO.

Seriously. People asked for PVP based rewards for PVPing. These are given - the random PVP IO drop (which, for *full* benefit - IE, both sets of bonuses - you need to be PVPing anyway.)

Rare? Yes. Supposed to be? Yes.

/this.

There's really no reason for the recharge to be *that long.* I don't even care about the "scattering" (usually they're chasing whoever you converted anyway.) You don't get XP. There's no real reason to have you just stand around waiting... just let me get the mission over with.

You do not. At worst, it would be a "harassment tool," and even then it's got limited charges (and the person doing the harassing would end up finishing the mission they need it for.)

You're right. It's not a bug. It's an unfortunate design mishap.

Ideally what would happen is that either:
(a) you'd "craft" it, but Montague would have to inspect it before you could use it - you'd get the actual power after that (and you'd have the mission,) or
(b) The mission would segue directly into curing lost (IE, you'd have two things showing in your mission objectives - Craft the cure, then Cure the Lost.)

The mission should not become "non-completeable without GM help." The fact this *is* possible to do is something that should be repeatedly brought to the devs attention so they can find some way to rectify it.

No he won't. He'll chuckle - not his job any more.