Leo_G
-
Posts
4398 -
Joined
-
Quote:Except the devs probably don't balance the game to be played like that so any changes you're expecting to Stalkers won't be to those parameters, most likely. Again, I never said the DM set would outpace saturated Soul Drain, but in the situations it's not saturated, it will pull ahead.Originally Posted by UberGuy
The way a lot of people play, at least in the high-level game, there's essentially no such thing as distinct fights per spawn. Entire missions are practically a single ongoing fight, barring a small amount of time to travel between spawns (sometimes - that can depend a lot on the map). The way I play my Stalkers, stopping to AS something is often a loss of time and DPS... and that's solo. -
Quote:Yeah, I think people are forgetting the *really* hard part of such a change: What do you do for sword animations with the fire/smashing attacks or the pure fire attacks?Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
This is really easy folks, there are a million ways to do pointy or sharp flame animations.
Personally, I've never played Fire Melee but hoping to eventually play it on a Stalker. And I want Sword animations for all the attacks. But I'm actually starting to lean on making a Fire/Shield Brute instead as I've seen some cool demon concepts on the board (lookin at you Werner
).
-
Quote:Here's a thought:Originally Posted by BunnyAnomaly
The entire "Natural" source of power when it is being used by a natural human. Even at level 1. No natural human can be shot 20 times in a five minute period, fall off a 30 story building, and then still go and beat up hellfire breathing devil worshippers. With your bare hands. Every excuse points to other sources, like technology.
If your character is a natural human with no training that would explain any of these things, why not do the 'Natural' thing and not expose said character to such dangers. I mean, do *you* jump off 30 story buildings to see if you'd survive? You never know. You might. So why not try it? You don't want to because it's too dangerous? You might go splat?
Yeah, the only way your natural human character would know they could survive a fall like that or being shot that many times is if they were dumb enough to put themselves in that situation without the training, armor, magic or tech to survive it. So if that's your RP hang-up, then you gotta explain why they tried it in the first place. -
Quote:Yeah, I can see copied animations as being tacky. But I'd think the choice would be with the player. If they wanted to be tacky and cheese-d**k an enemy with the same move, that's them. If you want to make it tough and limit yourself to simple moves then pull out the good stuff later...Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
I think this is what blaster nukes were in part meant to represent.
I don't have an issue with seeing stuff like what you mentioned in fighting every once in a while.
Not. Every. Friggin. Fight.
What you don't mention is that the animations for those summons in the FF series are INCREDIBLY frustratingly long. In many of those games I felt that i was standing around doing nothing while a movie played. if I wanted to watch a movie I'd go watch one.
it's one of my issues with Dual Pistols. You spend a major part of the time (especially with the later powers) dancing around doing flashy stuff.
I'd rather just kill and move on. it's one of the sets I hope gets alternate animatins.
It's probably why I love games like Bayonetta (nice vid there, BTW). Everything she does is awesome. Then she's got the witch-time, alternate weapons ontop of the OMGWTMFingH climax moves....yeah, I just really love the stuff in that game...that reminds me, I still need to beat it...only got a bit over half-way through. -
Having actually played a high lvl DM stalker, much of the drag you speak of is alleviated in Assassin's Eclipse. Having such a potent punch of Negative energy damage that is not very resisted with the added benefit of controlling the crits on your higher attacks rather than them spread completely even throughout the strong and weak makes a bigger difference than you'd think.
I won't say it outstretches saturated Soul Drain, but then Soul Drain isn't always saturated. -
Well said, UberGuy. This has to be stressed when people discuss changes to Stalkers. Far too often people point out "Why a Stalker?" when, honestly, the same can has and will be said about any melee damage dealer. Or why any specific AT.
They get that stigma of how those bullies didn't invite their Stalker and count all the strikes against them and consider those strikes theirs and theirs alone.
Even the AoE problem people complain about isn't. Considering the sets with weak AoE damage (Dark Melee, Energy Melee and Martial Arts), this is the case for *every AT* with those sets. There are sets with strong AoE damage and only moderate AoE damage and it will show when used by a Stalker what type of set they are.
The solution to Stalker's supposed problem with AoE damage is to simply proliferate those sets that have good AoE damage. What are those again? Fire Melee, Mace/Ace and Super Strength are the sets I imagine those people are thinking as having good to great AoE. And no, they don't always have to sacrifice an AoE attack for AS (Look at Electric Melee) and no, just because they sacrifice 1 AoE doesn't suddenly make what a Stalker can do with it suddenly not worth it (go play a Dual Blade Stalker. BU > 1kcuts from hide is very powerful).
I think adding a change to widen the difference between Stalkers and Scrappers might be something they could do but the AT really isn't hurting as bad as people claim it to be. -
I think they misconstrued when you said "DA/Parry provide rather silly amounts of mitigation" as "DA/Parry provide bad or inconsequential amounts of mitigation".
-
Quote:So it's a pairing more for aesthetics?Originally Posted by Beelzy
I thought the Ninjitsu set would work with a silent but deadly, tools of the assassin type set. The focus would be on theme. Making a ninja character that is not just a hidden samurai, and also having a toolkit strategic approach rather than a blunt force type set.
The -regen numbers and durations are based roughly on DM's debuff times, but also looking at Widow's -regen effects, which are actually at 15s for a tier one. The times for KM are actually out of line with the other sets, and I have been complaining about them since beta. The -damage debuff is also out of line with the -ToHit debuff from DM.
As for the Widow -regen, isn't that only on 2 of their powers? This is on every power except AS. So it's not completely off that Widow's have 15 sec -regen. But even the Envenomed Dagger only has 10sec of it.
The reason I'm focusing on that aspect of the set is because one stipulation was that the hypothetical set would be proliferated and this seems to work better for Scrapper's or Brute's AV soloing than it would for Stalkers aiding a team to solo the AV. The Scrap/Brute would just hammer away with all their -regen stacking and eventually put the target down. The Stalker would need to keep up the attack to keep up the debuff so focuses more on a scrapping tactic there. -
Quote:Well, it kind of wouldn't make sense that a group that's hit by a blinding flash of light or caught in a smoke screen would instantly turn to the guy that fired it and know exactly where it came from and all of the group are still coordinated to fire at that target simultaneously.Originally Posted by Soulwind
For me, the big ones are the "stealth" powers that should be doing just about anything other than providing stealth.
Steamy Mist, Cloak of Darkness, Smoke Grenade
When a big fog bank suddenly rolls through the office building or when everything goes completely dark or when a giant cloud of smoke suddenly fills the room, you'd think the enemy would be going "uh-oh, we've got company" rather than blithely standing there . . .
As a "well what would you do with these powers", I'd make Steamy Mist and Cloak of Darkness a PBAoE -ToHit DeBuff and also provide a +Defense Buff to you and teammates.
(You're hard to see/target so the +Def and anyone actually caught in the cloud has trouble seeing out/through it so the -ToHit)
For Smoke Grenade, I'd just to a bigger -ToHit DeBuff and drop the -Perception (SG's "stealth" effect) or even leave both, but drop the "no aggro" effect.
The more realistic type of effect would be to simply add code that changes a stationary group into a patrol group when you use these powers. They still wouldn't know where it came from but they'd at least look for it. -
I guess I tend to like both...usually on the same characters.
That is, I enjoy characters that use basic, logical type attacks most of the time but are capable of pulling out the stops and unleashing crazy levels of power when needed. There's usually some measure in my mind to stop characters from just using their best stuff up front, like maybe minimalizing collateral damage or the big booms cost a lot of energy or require expensive ammo or causes explosions that might kill the user too.
This is probably why, In-game, I tend not to lean on tier 9s as heavy as others do and why I don't usually play sets that are hindered when you don't. -
Quote:Don't need it. The devs already stated the inclusion of animal and monstrous costume parts are well within the creative realm of their game.Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Your task is to convince the developers that City of Furries will further their creative vision in the direction in which they want it to go. I will wish you good luck on this quest, because you are gonna need it.
No need to sound so jaded, though. It's not ruining your game experience, is it?
PS: I guess if you're not trying to stifle creativity, then you're just speaking from some type of bias or prejudice against not the ideas themselves, but the types of people that support or enjoy these ideas. Because as far as I can see, you're placing some kind of thematic filter on possible additions that even the devs aren't. Even if Sexy Jay has a bias against 'furries', I doubt he'd want to block future additions because of it...yeah, he himself might not bother working on it, but he's not going to bring a hammer down on another worker that does just because he doesn't like it. -
Quote:I don't see why as the one nit-pick argument against the suggested customization was 'It doesn't explain why a Stalker is invisible' (when it actually does) and yet the ability of 'fighting superiority' doesn't explain while a Stalker can hide in plain sight either (or why he deflects attacks with bare hands, for that matter).Originally Posted by Crim_the_Cold
If you took out the big arm/guantlet idea and turned it into more of a fighting superiority type of armor set (IE you block their attack with one hand and casually backhand them causing them to fly back 10ft and land in a broken heap) you might get a more positive response.
Also, adding new block animations would be required for that, where relying on a gauntlet could use the same shield block animations as SD.
But I think the point of a Shield Defense concept would be to use some piece of armor to block with...that's the reason you'd choose Shield Defense instead of Invulnerability when making your concept. -
That's a troll post, if I ever saw one.
-
When I read the thread title, I instantly thought of a similar idea. Like have all Hold or Sleep bonuses improve both Hold/Sleep durations, Immobilize/Stun, Fear/Confuse (keep Knock separate) and it'd be interesting if there were Taunt/Placate duration bonuses but I don't think Placate is enhanceable.
I honestly don't see the harm. How much bonus could you really rack up? Although it's not likely, but it'd be kind of interesting if one could build up a mez to noticeably better on a non-mezzer AT like a Blaster or Tanker. -
If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck...
Also, it was only 3 months and 21 days, not 4 months.
Lastly, I'd appreciate if you stopped bumping with non-constructive posts. Either make a comment that's on-topic or just don't bother pressing reply. I'm not trying to be mean or controlling, but the thread stopped going anywhere when you threadjacked it in the first place so I'd rather not tread that path. -
Having reread this old thread, I'm actually quite surprised how big a tool Thirty-seven and Steamp were being about the concept. Especially considering the advances such an addition would have.
Looking back on the idea, the mechanics seem sound and would work well for what a Stalker needs to accomplish, adds a bit of team-aid (just not as much as the other melees), provides customization to explain invisibility beyond some current sets like WP, Electric Armor, Regen and SR while opening up set combos for every melee so you can have your Claws/SD brutes, SD/DB tankers and Spines/SD scrappers.
Not only does it do all that while giving SD to Stalkers, but it would look amazingly cool with a lot of concepts. All you have to do is look at the Dwarf Form claws or the new PPD gauntlet+pauldron combo and see how cool those look.
I'm still interested to hear what people have to say about the limitations of the idea or if they even want to pair sets like SD with Claws or Dual Blades or if using a gauntlet(or gauntlets) with claws is adequate enough a compromise for not being able to hold a shield and on the same node as where the claws are. -
Quote:Perhaps, but not 8ft close.Originally Posted by Jibikao
Mmmm, besides Against All Odds, don't Grant Cover and Phalanx Fighting promote that "Stalker should fight closer to other teammates to get more critical chance"??
The max range of Grant Cover is only half the range of the crit bonus. I'm not saying that Shields is counter to a Stalker's function but it presents an obstacle to what the Stalker needs and IMO that's usually freedom of movement/placement. Even outside of their 30ft +crit radius, a Stalker can still control their crits and dish out burst damage but part of the appeal of this set would be in powers that promotes standing next to the guy getting shot...which isn't good for someone with low HP.
It's not the -dmg from Against all Odds, it's the +dmg. That's what shifts Shield Defense from a 'mediocre armor set' to an 'offensive armor set'. Yeah, you can say just give it a click +dmg power but ultimately, it probably wouldn't be balanced for the mitigation it gives up (unless it was a pretty good damage bonus click).Quote:Yeah, the only problem will be Against All Odds which I guess they can just alter to a simple +resistance" shield. After all, didn't they change Rise to the Challenge from Willpower to fit "Stalker"? To say they can't change "Against all Odds" for Stalker is kinda weak. Yes, I think they can if they want to.
This is why I suggested the Strike Gauntlet armor set (note: in that discussion, we eventually agreed to a Shield Charge-esque power for the attack instead). Not only does that particular set seem more fitting for Stalkers' playstyle, but it also gives a bit more burst mitigation to balance out some of the sustained DPS it misses out on. Also, it'd provide an alternate animation that'd free up the node on the hand so you can pair it with sets like Katana, Spines, Claws and Dual Blades for not only Stalkers but all the melee ATs.
(Another Note: The linked thread suggests a set and alternate customization for Shield Defense, but it in no way would lock Stalkers into the Gauntlet customization. It would only lock you into gauntlet customization if you choose a set that can't be paired with Shields currently.)
There was talk about how ridiculous a 'Giant Hand' set is but who's ridiculous now? Have you seen those PPD Interrigators? Those gauntlets + shoulder combos look super cool!
This is why I always suggested 'AT-branded sets' over 'Straight Proliferation' so that Fire Melee would be different across each AT, same as Dual Blades, Stone Melee, etc. I argued it back at the beginning but it's too late to go back with the argument of 'it's not thematic'. Proliferate it. And if you must, change a power or two to make it more 'thematic'.Quote:And actually do I think "theme" plays a pretty big part here even though the dev says otherwise. Stalker/Assassin don't mesh well with "Super Strength" like the Hulk. I can care less about "themes" but I think that's one reason.
And I am not crazy over Super Strength either. I prefer War Mace/Axe on Stalker. I just want Shield secondary. :P
And like some of you have said, I think it is better that each AT has one unique set like Ninjitsu and Super Strength. -
And this is where the people with Knockback powers can laugh and stick their tongues out and say "Nah! Nah! Too bad for yoooOOOOoouu!"
The obvious solution is to make them targetable so my Claws/EA werewolf can huff and puff and blow them all down with Shockwave
-
Quote:I'd appreciate it if you didn't go blanketing stereotypes onto ATs. Or are all Brutes and Tankers suppose to be male large model and only know how to hit things?Originally Posted by Jibikao
If they go by the theme that "Stalker can't hide with a Shield", then I would say Stalkers aren't usually seen as "Super-Strength". Assassins are supposed to be "skinny, evil..." after all. lol I don't agree but I say the chance is very slim.
I actually think Shield set would fit very very well in Stalker.
I want War Mace a lot more by the way.
But Stalkers didn't get Shields because of mechanic reasons, not thematic reasons. This was said by the devs. Shield Defense's defining feature (Against All Odds) would not mesh with the AT and without it, the set is pretty bland. Then there's Grant Cover and Phalanx Fighting that also doesn't mesh with a melee that moves along the battle field.
As far as Super Strength, I'd hope they'd eventually balance the set so Rage didn't have to be so broken. If they could (and make it not stack), then proliferating it to Scraps and Stalkers would be the next leap.
This is the dumbest argument against proliferating a set I've ever heard. Hey, maybe they'll take back Broadsword from Stalkers because it was a copy set of something we had and do Ice Melee instead?Quote:Then there is the really big problem. Without Rage, the set just becomes a series of 1 / 2 punches.
Taunt Becomes Placate, Hand Clap goes bai bai for Assassin's Strike, and Rage goes bai bai for Build up.
That just leaves Jab, Punch, Haymaker, Knockout blow, Hurl and Footstomp.
Which basically means you have Energy Melee without the glowing hands.
But seriously, Energy Melee is nothing like Super Strength, visually or playstyle-wise. For one, EM doesn't get a ranged attack or a strong AoE. Secondly, EM is actually more potent vs a single target vs SS which is just decent. Thirdly, EM doesn't have KB. -
I was meaning to come back and respond to certain points so here we go...
Quote:Firstly, the durations of those -regen effects seem out of whack. The most likely durations (unless the set is sacrificing something for longer durations) is around 6-10sec...possibly shorter if you look at other debuffing sets like Kinetic Melee. And the only way to keep a significant amount of -regen on the target is steady attacking.Originally Posted by Beelzy
Suggested Ninjitsu primary
1 Nekode (alt. Swipe)
description: Climbing claws in the palms of the hands can make even the most subtle of moves lethal. Minor lethal and toxic damage. 30% chance for fear. -25% regen (10s)
animation: Similar to Swipe from Claws, but smaller.
1 Kyushi (alt. Deadly Secret or Sudden Death)
description: A knife up the sleeve, when doused in poison is a deadly secret. Moderate smashing, lethal and toxic damage. 50% chance for fear. -25% regen (10s)
animation: Right leg steps forward, right elbow comes up at shoulder level, right hand swings down to waste level with a dagger. Damage will be smashing then lethal+toxic.
2 Kyoketsushoge (alt. Whirling Fate)
description: Easy to hide, or wrap around the waste, the kyoketsushoge attaches a deadly double bladed knife, one straight, one curved, to the end of a chain to give deadly accuracy and reach. 10' melee attach, moderate lethal and toxic damage. 50% chance for fear. -25% regen (10s)
animation: Left hand pulls from the belt buckle, a chain comes loose which, is swung in a figure eight, then snapped forward then back before being flung around the waist.
6 Garrote (alt Silent Assassination)
description: AS (lethal and toxic)
animation: Shoulders lower, hands come together and separate with a line between them. Feet come together as the butt lowers (this is during the interrupt time) and then leap, flip (with string trailing) disappear, land in original position, damage dealt.
8 Build Up
description: BU
animation: Fancy ninja hand signs.
12 Placate
description: Placate
animation: Fancy ninja hand signs
18 Doku (alt. Poison Gas or Poison Breath or Breath of the Oni)
description: Putting poison in one's mouth is not a good idea, unless you can do more damage to your opponents than yourself. 15' range 30 degree arc Moderate DoT (Toxic) ranged AoE. Minor toxic damage to self, low endurance cost. -50% regen (15s)
animation: Similar to Breath of Fire
26 Zurugashikoi (alt. Cunning Strike or Dirty Tactics)
description: Don't kick them when their down is a poor way to do business. High Smashing, Lethal and Toxic Damage. -25% regen (10s) knockdown.
animation: Step forward (knockdown occurs) goes down on knee, stabs with a poisoned knife. Damage will work as Smashing, smashing, lethal+toxic.
32 Tenmyaku (alt. Dim Mak or Touch of Death or Poisoned Palms)
description: The mythical touch of death has been shrouded in protective mysteries. Often thought to be a single strike, a single point, the tenmyaku is a series of points, hit in the right series to cause simultaneous organ failure. Teleport. Superior Toxic damage (because the effect of the attacks are not actually blunt trauma, but effects akin to a poison). -50% regen (15s)
animation: Feet together, hand sign, followed by a series of finger and toe touches as toon appears and disappears. (technically, you will be only teleporting once, you will be able to be targeted while doing the technique even through you appear to appear and disappear.
That said, why do you consider this to be the perfect stalker set? I'm simply asking because you didn't mention it. When I threw out my sets, I stated why I thought they'd mesh with what a Stalker's goals were.
Same question. Why do you consider these the perfect stalker sets?Quote:Originally Posted by Beelzy
Dimensional Melee
1 Phantom Punch: You slip your hand through a hole in timespace to attack your opponent. 10' range, fast animation, minor smashing damage. 20% chance confuse.
1 Slipstream: You open a hole from below your opponent to above him, causing him to fall. Moderate smashing damage. 30% chance confuse.
2 Dimensional rift: By causing a bending of the spacetime continuum around you, you cause moderate energy damage to surrounding foes. 50% chance confuse.
6 AS
8 BU
12 Placate
18 Wormhole: From the gravity control set.
26 Dimensional Shift: From the gravity control set.
32 Temporal Gate: You teleport into the midst of your foes and explode a burst of temporal energy. Superior Energy damage, knockdown, 30% chance to confuse.
Dimensional Aura
1 Hide
2 Bent Space: You create a shield of curved space around you to redirect attacks. Toggle Melee defense.
4 Curved Space: Extending the curvature of time you are protected from ranged attacks. Toggle Ranged AoE defense.
10 Temporal fold: Self Intangible.
16 Internal Clock: Mez protect clicky.
20 Time Warping: +rech, +speed
28 Distortion Field: Toggle AoE repel
35 Fleeting glance: A very fast, long-ranged teleport.
38 Borrowed Time: You can hide yourself in a time bubble for a short time, regaining some health and endurance.
Also requires a change to intangibility mechanics to allow intangible foes to be attacked by intangible toons.
I have to say though, the melee set seems really out of whack with all its controls and the light damage. -
Quote:It's not even about anime!(You were the 1st to mention it in the thread, by the by)Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
I understand anime just fine, thanks. I simply do not like it, and if I wanted to be playing characters which resemble what usually springs to mind when "anime" is mentioned, I'd find me a new MMO. Im sure there is one out there which is thematically appropriate. Most likely more than one.
With that said, I find your insinuations that I am "ignorant" and "idiotic" to be both uncalled-for and offensive: after all, you hold an opposing viewpoint, yet I have said no such thing to you. Pray return the courtesy.
I'll leave the baby-faced, 38-DD sporting, garter-wearing bunny girls to you, you can have 'em all. Cheers.
Or 'furries'.
I consider myself a creative enthusiast. I enjoy things that are varied, unique, stylized and explorative when it comes to visuals, graphics and art. Creativity should be encouraged but you take the position as villain that discourages it? Why?
You state a clear bias (I can already tell you think American Comics are the hearth of all things in the modern illustrated medium) and attempt to disprove your ignorance with more ignorance. This is idiocy.
You don't have to like a type of medium (manga, anime and comics are a *medium* not a genre! Oy!) but beyond that, what ground do you stand on to stifle creativity because of your bias and prejudice? -
Quote:Like, seriously.Originally Posted by zachary_EU
Perhaps all new pools not need goofy looking animations.
First you got people whining that they hate their dance gun-fu animating Dual Pistols and then you have people here that are like "9 versions of 'I stare at thee' would be boring".
Well how about Fire Blast? It's pretty much just multiple versions of 'stick out hands' with the only variations being Rain of Fire and Fire Breath...and guess what? People want to oust the breath animation for a hand animation...
I'd imagine an eye-blasting animated set wouldn't be big on character animations but have varied and interesting particle FX. -
I was just posting a suggestion because someone said no one could make one that's interesting with a new mechanic.
Although I kind of like the idea of a set with 2 nukes (a ST one and a cone one) that are mutually exclusive. -
Quote:Compared to what you *think* anime is, I'd say, yeah anime is pretty deep.Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
I "hate what I don't understand"?! Ha. As if anime is a deep philosophical subject taking years of study to understand. Those babyfaced pre-teens wearing garters and cat-ears are a complicated concept! You know... I don't think so.
But my point is, more or less, is that hating something because you don't understand it is beyond ignorance...it's downright idiotic. Beyond that, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's a bad idea and frankly, your argument that it breaks immersion doesn't hold water.
Cheers, -
Well unless they introduce some extra mechanic to *get* you back into hidden status or hidden status returns in less than 4 seconds (which is broken, by the way), it will always be better to simply keep fighting until the targets are dead. Waiting, while currently a usable tactic when picking through targets, is disingenuous to your ultimate goal, to destroy targets.
Not only that, but it reinforces the concept of the hit-and-run AT and I REFUSE to back a change that makes the ignorant correct. We aren't hit-and-run. We aren't "cower behind box because we get 2-shotted too much" melee. And we're not one-trick ponies.
If we're expecting some change to the AT, I'd rather something that compliments natural combat. Something that extends the use of what we have rather than just make it happen more often. Because using placate every 5 seconds or waiting 4sec for hide to come back shouldn't be the breadth of what we do.