Justaris

Next time you might consider waiting at least a day before attempting to delete as firstly you can't actually delete the thread so all you do is make it harder for others to figure out what you wanted and secondly an intact thread is more useful for other players who may have the same question.

As with most build questions, it's almost always better to make an attempt at a build yourself and then get a critique from the community to fine-tune. There's a lot of playstyle choices that go into most builds and making your own build allows you to make those decisions based on what you enjoy, so it works out better for everyone in the long run (for example, choice of travel power, choice to use nuke powers or not, etc).

YT's outlined the big must-haves and I agree with the list. I'd only add the recommendation to use Howling Twilight as often as possible. It's an autohit cone stun power, one of the best control power options available to Defenders. It also does very good -regen, ten times the effect you get with Twilight Grasp. The fact that it's also the best rez power in the game and the only AOE rez in the game is also very good, but you shouldn't save it only for when teammates are dead.

In other words, you're no longer limited to playing on those four servers because you have an EU account, and you may find some of the NA servers more to your liking in terms of population, depending on your preferrred times of play and how those sync up to peak times in North America.

As Aggelakis points out, it's been this way for quite a while. I'd really only recommend the use of Acrobatics to free players without access to the Inventions system or people wanting to PvP - otherwise, knockback protection is easily attainable from IOs and I find that route preferable in nearly all builds over running the Acrobatics toggle and burning the other power selections necessary to unlock it in the first place.

I also play a DA tank in incarnate trials and he's quite sturdy. I can weather Maurauder's Nova Fist by using Dark Regen immediately afterwards to restore all my lost health. I will however caution you that as you move up in content, it becomes increasingly difficulty to simply ignore what you're supposed to do and often it's easier to simply reposition yourself.

For example, it's relatively easy to survive the blue patches of death in the Apex TF if you're built for it. It's more difficult to survive Marauder's Nova Fist in the lambda but it's possible. The 'green stuff' strike in Keyes hits pretty hard (and you should be trying to avoid that anyway!), but when you get to the lightning strikes in the Magi trial, it really is move or die. At that point it really becomes more about controlling where the damage patches are on the battlefield so they don't keep you out of melee with the AV.

Consider a Mastermind for the easiest time doing the above.

Congratulations to the winners!

I've soloed the DA arcs, including Knives of Artemis, more than once on my DA/Elec Tanker. I used to run on 54/x8 and he can do it, albeit a bit slowly, but lately I've stopped doing it because I really don't have a compelling reason to slog through that other than the push the envelope of my build, so I usually run at +0/x8 for the drops nowadays so I can clear the missions quickly and easily.

Granted, this is with a very high-end build that makes use of HOs, many expensive IOs and tier 4 incarnate powers that I'm talking about here. Also, I don't add additional limitations on myself (i.e. I use inspirations and lots of them). I wouldn't say I rely on them to survive, however. He has Ageless Radial Epiphany on autocast, and the DDR there allows me to resist the Knives debuffs long enough to kill them all. I doubt I'd do nearly so well without it.

Any particular reason you hated Icicles? Given the primary goal you gave of keeping aggro, I would really recommend taking and using Icicles in conjunction with Chilling Embrace. That said, it's your character and with liberal use of Taunt you could certainly get by with Chilling Embrace alone if it's just a personal dislike for the power. I notice in your top build you have both Taunt and Icicles pushed to the very last and not well slotted - I really wouldn't recommend that for a primary tanking build.

As for the other builds, I'm not really sure what direction you're wanting to go or where you're wanting criticism. I assume the first build is yours and the others are just examples you picked up...?

I would also strongly recommend keeping Icicles. Most tankers get more damage output over time from their damage auras than anything else they do, and my Ice tank was certainly no exception to this. As previously mentioned, Ice's much vaunted status as King of Aggro is largely due to the Chilling Embrace/Icicles combo. Chilling Embrace does most of the heavy lifting there, true, but Icicles is not to be dismissed lightly.

If there's one thing I've learned about giving advice, whether on the forums or in general, it's never to assume knowledge on the part of the other person. Even if these points are obvious to you (and there's no way to know a priori if they would be), they may not be to others perusing the thread. That said, I'm looking over your build now. Since this is a Granite build, the other armors really are only here to be mules. The goal of covering the psionic hole in a Granite build is not an easy one to acheive significant progress towards without major concessions elsewhere in the build. You seem to be slotting for a great deal of recharge also - an understanable goal for a Tanker being played entirely in Granite - but this leaves you with very little margin for error between the two goals. Fortunately, there's a great deal of overlap.

Probably the best ways to addrress the psionic issue are to either build a more well-rounded Stone build that can run outside of Granite for those times when there are psionic foes in the mix or to build for positional Defense (which doesn't stack with Granite's other typed Defenses and so would entail a very large slot investment and wouldn't be something I'd recommend since you'd have to give up so much of your recharge and other bonuses to get there). Neither of these approaches really gels with the way this build suggests you're approaching this Tanker, so I'd suggest a compromise option.

I think overall the best plan for a Granite build tanker is to cover the psionic hole with modest Psy Defense (you have about 24% here, not bad at all) and supplement that with Elusive Mind and/or luck inspirations to put you at softcap for psionic when you need to be. It's a situational solution, but it's a situational problem unless you're up against an all-psy group like the Carnival. If you find that happening a lot, I'd seriously considering making a second build designed to be played both in and out of Granite (i.e. one that makes use of the other armors including Minerals with Granite as a fallback).

Specific feedback for the build - I would strongly recommend slotting Might of the Tanker, as the proc is very good and the set gives you some modest Psy resistance as well. You're over the Rule of 5 limit for your 5% recharge bonuses, so you might consider replacing one of the Crushing Impact sets with Might of the Tanker. The numbers for Psionic resist are very slightly higher in MotT and the recharge numbers are significantly better.

You've also severely underslotted Taunt. I know the primary build goal is to toughen up against Psionic, but if the overall intent of all this great survivability is to be a superb tank then you're going to need to be able to maintain aggro. Mud Pots is helpful, but I would try to free up at least another slot or two here for some Taunt/Range/Recharge triples.

That's everything that jumps out at me. With good use of Inspirations and/or Elusive Mind that build should do fine against Psionic and excellent at everything else. Teleport overcomes most of the mobility issues of Granite if you're good with it, and the many recharge bonuses should help some to offset the recharge debuff.

Right, naturally for Minerals to be effective you'd want to slot the other armors as well. Given the thread title, this just seemed an odd approach. I think a Stone/Ice/Soul would do just fine for the vast majority of content, it should be a great tank, but I wouldn't called the above an 'I hate psionic' build. The OP specifically mentions he wants psionic defense in his post, which prompted my comments.

If the intent is to have good defense against psy, you should probably slot Minerals better than you have. Can't give much more detailed feedback now, can't open Mids from work, but that's what jumps out at me immediately. For someone who doesn't like 'how one-dimensional Tankers are' you seem to have made a Granite build.

As an aside, if you really want a Tanker that shrugs off psy, you might be better served making a Dark Armor or Electric Armor tank.

Yeah, I disagree with pretty much everything he said, to say nothing of the bits that are just flat-out factually wrong. Guess that means I'm 'in denial'. I just love when someone prefaces their weak argument by saying that anyone who disagrees is wrong by fiat. Saves you from actually having to construct a sound argument yourself, I suppose.

As for the OP topic, I've been a regular follower of Extra Credits for some time now and the video in question was a good treatment of the issue in my opinion. I'd agree that our game has less power creep than most, in no small part due to the conscious decision our Devs have made to avoid the level cap increase carrot-and-stick model that other MMOs such as WoW have been using. The continued focus on revamping old areas/systems and adding content to the low and mid-game as well as the endgame also helps combat this as opposed to a 'game begins at levelcap' perspective you see in some other games.

I've been using the Melee hybrid on my rad/rad Defender (who's always been played in melee range), and it makes a huge difference. I can see where the people complaining are coming from somewhat, but I can't agree that hybrid is 'useless'. I've got good mileage out of it.

Minor correction: the IOs don't "level up with you". They don't expire as the SOs do, but they have a set level of effectiveness that doesn't get any better or any worse. I mention this because there are Attuned enhancements such as the ATOs or the (real money) store-bought enhancements, which actually do level up with you.

It's a complicated question. Generally speaking you're going to get more from using Invention Set enhancements, but you're also going to pay more influence to get those. Some players start doing Inventions in the 30s, others keep to the Single Origins and wait until 50 to dive into Inventions, it's up to you.

Actually just teamed with you again the other night. Welcome back!

The interesting thing about being a team-centric character in City of Heroes is that the nature of teams changes dramatically depending a number of factors, including the mix of powersets other people are bringing to the table, the level range under consideration and the enemies being opposed. I'll elaborate a bit on what I mean by this.

1) Scenario 1: The Early Game. Most players are underpowered at this stage regardless of what they're playing, unless they are high-level characters who have exemplared down to assist (but that's another matter and a niche case). At this stage of the game many defensive powersets have yet to mature. Tankers and other melee artists have significant holes in their respective armors. Buffers and debuffers alike haven't acquired their best moves yet, and control archetypes remain light on control.

In this environment, there's a great deal of emphasis on reactive mechanics, particularly healing. You'll often see low level teams for things like DFB saying they 'need a healer'. While there are certainly buff sets that work very well at low levels (such as Force Fields), they tend to get overshadowed by healing here because this stage also includes many players new to the game who haven't let learned the several critical ways in which CoH differs from some other popular MMOs and just gravitate automatically to a 'trinity' mentality of meatshield-dps-healer.

Most in demand: 'Healers" (often but not necessarily Empathy), damage dealers.


2) Scenario 2: The Middle/Late game. After level 38, all primary and secondary powers are available. Everyone has all their best tricks and with three slots per non-power level rather than two, everyone is really starting to flesh out their powers. Buffers and debuffers are coming into their own and edging out those 'pure healers' who don't adapt. Tankers and other melee artists experience a dramatic rise in survivability now and often don't require outside buffs/heals to survive in most situations anymore. Controllers are locking down the battlefield on a regular basis. Masterminds have all their pets and upgrades. Life is good.

At this point, many players begin using IOs and the focus often shifts to gaining experience at high rates by doing missions on very high difficulty settings. Players interested in badges and/or accolades (or those just interested in the story or a new experience) will do a lot of Task Forces as well, and even go back an exemplar the early level task forces as it's considerably easier to do them as an exemplared higher-level character than it would be otherwise.

Most in demand: 'tanks' (often but not necessarily Tankers), debuffers (specifically those with -res or -regen debuffs).


3) Scenario 3: Endgame. At 50, the VIP incarnate game takes over for those it applies to, and yet again the landscape of teaming changes drastically. Many VIP players who play extensively in VIP content are going to be playing with mid to high-end IO builds - this becomes much more of a given than in the rest of the game, though of course not 100%. Incarnate powers change up what's needed and what's not, as these powers often perform functions one might otherwise need a certain character type to accomplish.

What's in demand here now becomes about what's necessary to accomplish the specific objective, as many of the high-end TFs and incarnate Trials have certain gimmicks which reward the use of certain powers or the presence of certain ATs. For example, in the Lady Grey Task Force there is a mission in which having at least one (ideally two or more) character with a hold power is vital to success. A team may very easily be forced to quit the Task Force in failure if they lack this component, so players with holds (not necessarily Controllers/Dominators, though that's often best) are in high demand.

Most in demand: whatever's needed. Holds for LGTF, Corruptors for Magi, Masterminds for BAF, Mind Control 'trollers/doms for Lord Recluse (if trying for Master) and so on and so forth.



The end result of all this is that pretty much any character you might choose to make is going to be a lynchpin somewhere at some point - often in multiple situations. If you build and play your character well and you enjoy doing it, you'll often find there's something in the game that a team will want you along for. That said, based on your preference to focus on team support and avoid a straight damage role, I think Corruptors, Defenders, Controllers, Dominators and Tankers all make sense in their own way depending on how you prefer to play. What most of these have in common is that they're going to start off in Scenario 1 as weak (Corruptors and Doms slightly less so than the other three due to higher damage output), but mature into highly sought-after demigods.

Keep in mind that I just analyzed one factor (level range), leaving other factors like existing team composition and type of enemies being fought out of the equation. A team that's already capped for Defense might prefer a Sonic to a Force Fielder, for instance. A team doing a Carninval-heavy arc might prefer a Dark Armor brute to an Invlun tank. The variables just go on and on, with the end result that no one build choice is the 'best' or single most sought after, which has the fortunate corollary of meaning no choice is 'wrong' or 'teh gimp' either.

Apologies for missing the bit about having done traps already. I still think it could easily fit the bill, but the recommendations for Time are also quite valid. Good luck!

I'd also seriously consider Bots/Traps. The only real downside is that many of the powers are location-based and fast-paced teams often zerg forward rather than draw mobs to the traps. Playing solo, however, that's not an issue, and you can absolutely solo on high difficulty and take on GMs with a Bots/Traps.

Alright, first a few general words of advice and then I'll get down to the sample build.

As a Shield Tanker, the Defense you get from your primary is positional, so you'll want to build on that. You want to get your Melee, Ranged and AOE defense numbers to 45% as this is the softcap in regular (non-Incarnate) content. For reference, the Incarnate softcap is 59%. I wouldn't worry too much about that, since often you'll be teamed for incarnate content and with three allies in range, Phalanx Fighting will elevate you to the Incarnate softcap by itself. That said, if you do plan to main tank often in endgame incarnate trials, it might be worth pursuing incarnate softcap levels of Defense without needing Phalanx Fighting.

You mentioned Tough and Weave - you will want these powers to give you more Resistance and to give you a bit more Defense. You can hit the softcap without any IO Set Bonuses at all if you make use of Combat Jumping, Weave and Maneuvers. Once you've hit softcap, you can focus your remaining slots on your attack chain. Luck of the Gambler +Rechage IOs and the Numina +reg/+rec and Miracle +rec IOs are also good buys. The Numina and Miracle are uniques but the LOTG is not and you can have up to five active in your build. The other IO to consider is the Performance Shifter chance for +End, which works well slotted in Stamina.

It's not easy to get significant levels of Resistance from IO Set bonuses, so once you're happy with your levels of Defense (you may need to get a bit from Sets if you choose not to take Maneuvers - some don't like having to run another toggle, which is fair), focusing on Recharge is likely the best bet. Shield is a rather offensive powerset to start with, having a strong AOE attack and a +Damage power in the set, so leveraging the old axiom "a good offense is the best defense" makes good sense here. If you can afford them, purple damage sets will pack quite a punch and also give good recharge bonuses. The sample build below doesn't use purples, but you could easily fit them in if you were so inclined.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.957
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Sample: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: Street Justice
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(7), LkGmblr-Def(23), LkGmblr-Rchg+(23), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(25), ImpArm-ResDam(25)
Level 1: Initial Strike -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(9), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(3), LkGmblr-Def(3), LkGmblr-Rchg+(17)
Level 4: True Grit -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(5), ImpArm-ResDam(5), Mrcl-Heal(11), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(11), Mrcl-Rcvry+(15)
Level 6: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(7)
Level 8: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A), Taunt-I(9)
Level 10: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(13), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(15), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(39), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(40), Mocking-Rchg(40)
Level 12: Phalanx Fighting -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(13)
Level 14: Heavy Blow -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(33), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 16: Sweeping Cross -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 18: Combat Readiness -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(19), GSFC-Build%(19)
Level 20: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(36)
Level 22: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(37)
Level 24: Rib Cracker -- MotTanker-Acc/Dmg(A), MotTanker-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), MotTanker-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), MotTanker-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48), MotTanker-Rchg/Res%(48)
Level 26: Shield Charge -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(27), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(27), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), FotG-ResDeb%(31)
Level 28: Spinning Strike -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(31), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), Posi-Dam%(48)
Level 30: Boxing -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A)
Level 32: One with the Shield -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(39)
Level 35: Shin Breaker -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(43), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 38: Crushing Uppercut -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(40), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 41: Tough -- TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(42), TtmC'tng-ResDam(42), TtmC'tng-EndRdx(42)
Level 44: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45), LkGmblr-Def(45), LkGmblr-Rchg+(45)
Level 47: Grant Cover -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), P'Shift-EndMod(37), P'Shift-End%(39)
Level 1: Combo Level 1
Level 1: Combo Level 2
Level 1: Combo Level 3
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There's really no reason it has to be that way, especially with our community. My own experience with PvP has been limited, but when I do engage in it I do so for the most part with players that are able to be competitive without being abusive or childish. It's fun and different when everyone can be mature about it, which sadly isn't the rule especially in open zone PvP (see also: why open world pvp is and always will be a terrible idea).

I enjoy the occasional arena match and I do love me some badges. I'll never be a hardcore PvPer, but that's what brings me to PvP when I choose to do it.

Not too much I would tinker with. You might consider moving the extra slot from Blinding Feint (the one the Mako quad is in now) over to Combat Jumping to push your S/L defense over the softcap while still keeping your set bonuses slotted at level 30.

I'd also question the choice of Vigor for alpha. I think if you really need the endurance reduction you're better off going Cardiac which also buffs your Resistances. Personally, I like Resilient which buffs them even more.