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I like Dual Pistols/Poison. A lot.
Poison is a set that wants to play at range from 1-34. All of its skills from tiers 1-7 are best used at range and there is absolutely no reason for you to dive into a spawn or enter melee range. However, at levels 35 and 38 something odd happens. A set that primarily played at range is suddenly forced to enter melee range to use two of its most powerful skills. Once you get Poison Trap and Venemous Gas, you will drastically change your play style.
This is why I like Dual Pistols with Poison so much. Just like Poison, Dual Pistols is a set that plays best at range up until level 32, at which point it receives Hail of Bullets and a dramatic incentive to enter melee range to unleash carnage. These sets synergize perfectly in regards to leveling approach and they are insanely potent together. You have the option stack massive amounts of -damage debuffs with Weaken, Venemous Gas, and Toxic Rounds all being multiplied by your -resistance debuffs. You also can lay down serious AoE damage with Incendiary Rounds, Bullet Rain, Hail of Bullets, Poison Trap, and all of your debuffs. -
While it takes the sets, the -ToHit stat won't do anything and procs won't fire. I have no idea why this bug (the fact that it accepts Accurate ToHit Debuff) has never been fixed.
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The AoE splash and single target value are separate effects. The stack with each other but never with themselves. This means that clumped foes have the potential for 1.5 times the total debuff value listed as affecting a single target (1x single target value plus 0.5x splash value).
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I am 95% positive that you can slot them on Premium and F2P accounts.
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The only skills that I will use Placate on after issue 22 are Throw Spines and Burst (assuming Burst still has an automatic critical, which it may not).
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I voted A, but love them all.
I will undoubtedly buy this set, and have been wanting it for quite a while. -
It's a great skill. You lay down a mine that will explode when an enemy is nearby, holding all foes in the area and creating a toxic gas cloud that continues to pulse holds and debuff endurance. I am not sure whether the target cap is 10 or 16 for this explosion, but either way it is significantly more than the one target you reference here.
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The top 3 for me would be:
Ice Control
TA
Poison
All of the blast and melee damage sets are fairly homogeneous, and melee has received an overwhelming majority of the developer's attention over the course of this game. It's great that Gravity is FINALLY receiving some fixes 22 issues later (ignoring the addition of Singularity). -
The desirability of any AT rises and falls with the current team composition but only after a certain break point. Every AT is desirable when first forming a league/team as all you need are willing players, and this universal recruiting extends until you are about 90% full. Only then you can properly judge the desirability of ATs as you try and round out your group.
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My main debuffer right now is a DP/Poison as well. Poison is a bit of a wonky set. For most of your leveling career, it is built around two single target debuffs that have a very small splash radius of 8 feet that functions at half potency. You also will be using a cone slow at times. The result of this is that you will be using debuffs at range and likely attacking at range as well.
However, at level 35 you receive your most powerful PvE skill-- Poison Trap. This skill is just lights out for your foes, having a 1 minute recharge and 1 second cast time. At level 38 you receive Venomous Gas, a second power that encourages you to enter melee range. The debuffs on Venomous Gas are not all that powerful numerically but are comprehensive in the breadth of their effects (-defense, -damage, -ToHit, and -resistance).
So here's why I went with Dual Pistols: There is absolutely no reason for you to enter melee range before level 35, and at level 32 with Dual Pistols you receive a an insanely awesome skill that encourages you to enter melee range in Hail of Bullets. Before level 32, Dual Pistols functions best at range which is pretty much how Poison plays until it recieves Poison Trap and Venemous Gas. The issue of redraw is negligable with a Corruptor as you always are debuffing early and attacking later. There isn't much cycling between attack and debuff phases with this set.
At level 50 my DP/Poison is pretty solid. I can spawn dive, hit Poison Trap to hold most of the spawn and spam procs while simultaneously debuffing with Venemous Gas. I will then use Enevenom and Weaken once each on the hardest target and then whip out the pistols for Bullet Rain->Hail of Bullets->Bullet Rain. Just one redraw point, and people are often dumbfounded when the see how much damage you do.
I will say this-- Poison isn't built particularly well compared to sets like Time, Dark, Radiation, Ice, Thermal, or Kinetics. It has an anemic single target heal that you are forced to take at level 1. It also is quite poor at keeping your character alive as it has terrible AoE debuffs, no self buffs, and no self heal. While it has some powerful single target debuffs, it is overshadowed by all of the above sets when fighting the most important PvE single targets in the game: AVs and GMs. All of the above sets can stack more -Regeneration than Poison, which is perhaps the greatest flaw with this set. It's a single target specialist that loses it's effectiveness against anything higher than a Boss class foe. That, IMHO, is a terrible game design and should be addressed with regards to Poison. If Poison is going to have terrible AoE debuff values and be set up as a single target specialist, it absolutely needs to have the -regeneration values that many of the other sets receive. -
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Vengeance is normally affected by both recharge and defense enhancements. Why would this change have any effect on it?
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Just to reiterate what others have posted and I have said repeatedly in every thread of this sort:
- Poison is a single target focused debuff set that is lacking in the most important tool for solo enemies that matter: AVs and GMs. Give it -regeneration debuffs that are on par with Time (-250%), Radiation, Thermal, Dark, Cold (-500%) or Traps (-1000%+). Yes, this is how immensely important -regeneration is against AV and GM class foes, and all of these sets that offer superior AoE debuffs and buffs are simultaneously better than Poison against AVs and GMs.
- Alkaloid is terrible. No other set is burdened with a single target heal as its only ability of this sorts while simultaneously being forced to take it at level 1. Radiation has an AoE heal. Storm has a single target heal that is primarily a buff (mez protection, perception, endurance protection) with a secondary effect of healing. Kinetics and Dark receive two of the most powerful AoE heals in the game. Every set that has just one heal in it is granted something unique or exceptional, while poison gets a weaker version of Heal Other with 15% toxic resistance slapped on for flavor. And then there is Time Manipulation, a set that was released when Poison was ported and has two of the best heals in the game and BOTH affect the caster. Talk about a slap in the face.
- The risk versus reward ratio for Venomous Gas is out of whack. Poison is forced to spawn dive with virtually no AoE mitigation, personal buffs, or self heal/mez protection. Meanwhile, Traps is a set that similarly encourages one to play in melee range, and aside from Poison Trap it also has Seeker Drones, Force Field Generator, Caltrops, and Triage Beacon granting it a suite of self-affecting buffs, mezzes, and debuffs that make this set far more playable. It also has superior -resistance aganist AVs and debuffs regeneration 20 times betterthan poison; that's a value of -1000% versus -50%.
- Neurotoxic Breath is nice, but its targeting geometry (the size of its cone) is not suitable to be used in close proximity to enemies-- it's just too narrow and long. Widen the cone so it could be more effectively used after dropping Poison Trap and debuffing foes with Venemous Gas. Right now, this skill can only be used at range while the only viable form of AoE alpha mitigation is toe bombing Poison Trap in melee. Notice the lack of synergy there?
- Venemous Gas absolutely needs a prolonged duration on its debuff. Hurricane does this with a 10 second duration on every debuff tick, allowing some form of protection to be granted even when the caster is mezzed and the power detoggles. I consider a similar change for Venemous Gas to be the bare minimum that needs to be done for this skill.
- Paralytic Poison is a single target hold with no secondary effects, much like Petrifying Gaze for Dark Miasma. While Dark Miasma can readily skip this power because every other skill in the set is top notch, the same can't be said of Poison. Having this skill offer nothing more than a mag 3 hold weighs heavily on a set that is filled with par or sub par powers. How is Time Stop with a suite of powerful debuffs and a mag 4 hold mechanic not the baseline for what this skill should be?
Do they ever... Didn't it take took over two and a half months for them to get around to fixing Poison Trap? Considering that my DP/Poison became my main leveling character, I basically never experienced a viable Poison Trap until I was a tier 4 x 5 Incarnate. -
Why does the Corruptor version of Hail of Bullets seem to receive the least benefit from the Scourge inherent?
- Rain of Arrows can scourge fully on all three damage pulses.
- Blizzard checks to scourge on every single tick of damage, as do all other rain powers.
- Full Auto will Scourge for double damage if an enemy's hit points are low and the proc succeeds (it runs just one hit check though).
- All other nukes scourge for double damage with the same rules as full auto.
Meanwhile, Hail of Bullets does a paltry 41 points of damage at level 50 if it scourges-- a mere fraction of the total damage and making this the only Corruptor skill that doesn't critical.
Am I misunderstanding this, or was Hail of Bullets unfairly penalized on Corruptors? If it can't function like a rain power and check for Scourge on every tick of damage, why does it not receive a full critical like every other nuke? -
Quote:Yeah... "throw away" is probably too harsh of a term, and I shouldn't use that to describe the majority of the powers. None of the powers are complete stinkers, but a significant amount aren't enticing enough to require much thought while being passed over for a pool power. Some other people view this as a strength-- namely PvPers that are forced to take SS, SJ, Acrobatics, and most likely Phase Shift and its two prerequisites as well. That is a LOT of wading in the Pool Powers...I don't see throw away powers in Poison other than Elixir of Life, which a lot of support sets have rezzes that are considered optional if you have room. Between Paralytic Poison, Poison Gas Trap, and an another hold from primary/epic pools that is a lot of control at your disposal.
I am really tempted to try a DP/Poison corruptor now. :P
I have a DP/Poison Corruptor, and it is a solid choice that benefits immensely from being in melee range-- which is where both Poison and DP want to be. But for a set that encourages toe bombing and planting your Corruptor within 15 feet of an AV, Poison doesn't offer much personal protection. -
Quote:So a set comprised primarily of throw away powers, one that allows you to work your way up the pool power food chain without weighing sacrifice, is a good thing? All you've said so far is that Weaken and Envenom are great (with Powerboost), and you like spot healing a tank in a single instance of a single raid.i dare you to roll an earth/fire dom for pve and get all the way to vengeance without making some huge sacrifices. even more so when you take slotting into consideration.
Yup. Poison is A-OK. -
Quote:I think you missed the point of this thread. There are plenty of trials for level 50s out there. In fact, the BAF and LAM, which are the ones designed for level 50s, easily comprise over 80% of the total trials run on a great many servers.The overwhelming tone of some of the posters in this thread is that because I have not lived and breathed Incarnate raiding for the past few months, for me to try to start it now would be hurting THEIR gameplay in some way and just leeching on my part and rude and insensitive and just plain "wrong".
The problem is that level 50+3s are also doing these trials disproportionately, and are getting better rewards/time invested in general. The inability of level 50s to contribute against a lebel 54+1 or 54+2 AV is part of what is skewing the reward ratio that pushes people with very experienced and developed Incarnates to spam the easiest trials.
New players are VERY favored by the current system. But feel free to bury your head in the sand if you prefer. -
Is the proc unique? If not, I could see this being worthwhile if you could stack several of them. 5 of these would potentially boost your soft cap Fury from 75 to 80, or from 80 to 85.
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I feel that Vorpal is even easier to target cap than Ionic. On the high end, combining Cardiac + Claion Radial Epiphany means that you are looking at 200+ feet of range on a 120 degree arc. Ever wanted to hit everyone in two or three of the BAF starting spawns filled with War Works? This is how you do it.
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Now that Vorpal has been released with a massive 120 degree arc cone with 120 feet of range, I think that Cyronic could use a little love. There is no reason that Cyronic should be neutered by a 45 degree cone. It should increased to at least 60 degrees if not more.
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Quote:Let's clarify one thing here. Are you actually claiming that having 7 throw away powers is an advantage? o_OArchvillains and such are not PvE, and apparently its not an advantage that you only really need 3 powers in Poison (2 if it ever comes out for defenders), making much more room for other useful powers.
I would say that Poison has 3 good powers in it-- Poison Trap first and foremost, followed by Envenom and Weaken. Venemous Gas is OK when it works, but has far too many draw backs. I will give this skill a 50/50 keep or toss rating.
There is undoubtedly a problem with Poison. Whether we are looking at the set from your perspective where there are 7 throw away powers, or looking at if from my perspective where there are 5.5 throw away powers, it simply means the same thing. The set has too many lackluster powers, lacks synergy, and plays like a piecemeal hodgepodge that doesn't buff well, doesn't heal well, and and has a questionable single target debuff emphasis that isn't particularly potent given the sacrifice it makes in AoE potential. -
Quote:I find it ironic actually. Unless these small team and solo missions have some very unique mechanics to them, a term for what others have lampooned as "gimmicks." then this content is going to be far too similar to the mundane door fest from 1 to 50. Ohhhh, that sounds unique!!I can't stand solo'ing. Doing my "daily" tip missions is the most unfun content I do in coh, and I doubt the DA content will be much different from that. I will still prefer to do Trials over soloing through incarnate progression, but having DA as an option will be nice to do occasionally.
PS-- I hope there are new game mechanics up the wazoo, a veritable "gimmick" fest. Anything but defeats, clickies, hostages, lead allies, etc. -
Quote:This build is my main Defender, and one of my three support class mains in my stable (the others being a Demons/Pain MM and a DP/Poison Corruptor).The TA/sonic seems to have better survival due to higher debuff numbers, and the -res of the sonic attacks are quite nice. Not to mention howl is a great way to ignite the slick.
Let me start by saying this-- it's awesome! You can light your oil slick while simultaneously augmenting its damage by using Howl. In fact, I have a bind that causes Howl to immediately target and attack the Oils Slick once it is cast. There is amazing synergy with the -Damage from Poison Gas Arrow, as every bit of -Resistance enhances the power of -Damage.
On the upside, this is one of the most potent debuffing characters available. You will be a massive force multiplier on teams, whether it involves hard targets like AVs or sweeping spawns of regular enemies. There is also a nice synergy with the redraw-- you debuff first then spam your attacks to further lower the resistance of the enemies.
On the downside, this isn't the best soloing character. Trick Arrow doesn't have enough personal mitigation in a solo setting to truly shine.