Grey Pilgrim

Haven't had time to tweak costumes to the theme, but I still like the idea. Maybe do a couple of them per month instead of every week?

Maybe. Though I'd quibble with the second as it does impact a Stalker's performance (part of the advantage of AS from Hide is an alpha strike, and you have less of that with this issue), and I'd doubt the third, as it just seems to be a delay in when the damage and animation is working. I don't know how long it takes to do those, but the work of them is already there, the timing is just off (and it wouldn't be the first time the timing of the damage application was off in a power).

Also a pity that it didn't happen with I23, since apparently they got around to changing the sounds again. I think I like those more, at least.

Ugh, that makes it even worse. I was testing Staff on a Tanker, so that's why I never noticed it at the time. And regardless of it being one power, it's a new set. That should have been fixed back in beta.

Do you know if the devs are aware of the issue? I don't recall any posts on the issue in beta, but I'm sure I could have missed one. Been on the forums less this spring.

Did you follow this up at all? Because that comment from CS is bull... he said it should be awarded on your bill date. There is no other interpretation of those words at all.

Please, Black Pebble, please get CS to work right with you guys on this.

So... what in that part that you quoted suggested I hadn't read the thread? I got the "it's good to keep mobs away" thing FROM the thread. It's a small thread with a small amount of posters, but that is something consistently said in there. Not sure what you read, but what I said shows I had read the thread (and did so before responding).

For the rest of the comments from me that don't touch on the thread you linked to, that's from the experience of reading the Tanker forum for years, and from playing a Tanker since I started the game in its first month. I have never, ever, ever wanted a keep away power as a Tanker. KD? Sure, that's nice mitigation that allows me to follow up with my attacks (which Hand Clap does not). My thoughts and feelings on the subject A) make sense for how the Tank AT plays and B) are commonly voiced by other Tanker players. Whenever a player asks about what powers to take or drop from the set, Hand Clap and Hurl are the most commonly noted.

I like Hurl and kept it on my SS Tanker, but I can see why people would drop it. And while the idea of Hand Clap is fun and all, it's just not that great for Tanks. If you like it on your SS characters, good on you, but that doesn't change the issue most people have with it.

Sorry to divert from the thread so much, but it was apparently unavoidable.

Does Energy Torrent have KB in Tanker Ancillaries? If so, I am SO confused by how the devs set up that power... Controllers, Brutes (and I believe Doms) all have KD in that power... not sure why they didn't spread that to tanks. At any rate, it's a nice opener for my StJ/EA Brute on the DA mobs.

Besides looking for lieutenants, I also suggest looking for boss types. Certain ones, the rad ones in particular, really hurt my EA Brute, so I drop them ASAP. Other characters, like my Fire/Fire Tanker, are just equal opportunity or lieut focused, because the bosses all affect him int he same way.

Toxa, I'm finding this thread interesting. It seems like WP should still be pretty solid in DA, especially with decent defense and all its regen. So it might be a strategy thing (and remembering that it should be challenging). Though you do have me worried that the 55% positional defense I'm aiming for with my SR/Staff Tanker is too low, heh. Though he does have Guarded Spin to go on top of that. We'll see how it goes, I guess.

I'm still confused by your attitude to the proc. It allows you to keep your powers just as you like them and allows other that don't enjoy that aspect (like KB in Solar Flare) to remove it. Your objections seem to be objections seeking something to object to.

People already complain about KB necessarily, and this change probably isn't going to change that at all. People are people. Continue on as we all have for the past 8 years. No need to find new things to get upset about here, basically, you're looking at the gift horse of a GOOD compromise in the mouth. And to be honest, I'm trying to get you happy about something you should be happy about.

Not going to touch much on Handclap, but if you see that as a validation of your liking that power... okay. The best you've got there are some people saying it's a fun "get away from me power!" But that kind of power is worse than situational on a Tank. My usual issue is getting mobs to get close to me on a tank (darn stay at range buggers), not getting them away from me. There is a reason Handclap is derided by the majority of Tanker players: you shouldn't want or need a "get away from me" power on a Tank. I'd love it on some of my blasters, but not my tanks.

Why don't you up your diff? If I was fighting stuff that was -2 or -3 to me all the time, I'd be bored mighty quick. I restarted a mission on a Brute in DA when I realized I had slotted his Lore to Rare levels and forgot to up the diff. Fighting things one level lower was just too boring. I debated leaving things at -1 for my Blasters and taking up the amount of mobs a notch, but that felt too easy as well, oddly.

Just curious, is all.

Last but not least, THB, ease up. You're not helping your cause. We're all Kheld players here and can be friendly even if we don't all agree.

Yup, that's basically what I was saying. I know Memphis Bill is a hardline "don't take mah KB out of mah PB powers" type, so that's why I focused on that, since he seemed to be more down on this proc than I thought he should. There have been some players and posters that go overkill against KB since the game started, helped in part by players that don't know how to use it well (or get overly offended by its use), so Bill should know he'll continue to get comments about KB. It's not the fault of this proc or even the proposed change, and the change makes the situation better for all than what we have now.

I still think making a Null the Gull option for all powers would round this out the best. And the devs shouldn't be afraid of that because there are jerks that have a phobia about KB.

THB, you do tend to get a little insulting and harsh when you are debating with people. People can honestly disagree with your opinion and still be okay people. And even if someone is being a little antagonistic with you, returning the favor rarely helps.

I'd say the issue is more with them not liking Staff itself than the combination. From the posts I have seen, at least, they all seem to dislike how staff puts up a bunch of smaller orange numbers for an attack than one big one.

For recharge, it probably depends on what attack chains you're going for, and to get up your AOEs faster. I know I'm looking forward to the recharge my build is going to be adding so the AOE attacks are up faster.

I also think you're discounting the end reduc more than you should. I'm not sure how well it compares to the better end use of just having form of the body going (so you use fewer attacks), but SR is toggle heavy, like Arcana said, and even without Tough going, my blue bar goes down fast. That'll get better with more IO bonuses and accolades, but it isn't something to just ignore, either.

Any changes to animations in powersets will most likely be via alternate animations--like you said, anything else would tick people off that like the current batch. And given how often those happen (and never for a single powerset, that I can recall), I wouldn't tell anyone to hold their breath for alternate DP or Staff animations.

Biggest thing I want from Dual Pistols is to have each of its ammo types be competitive. Fire and standard are pretty much the only worthwhile options for a Blaster, and even then I almost never use Standard... Fire just does what you need it to do: kill it fast. That's a pity in a set that technically should have a lot more options. The damage of the set is okay for the most part (low end standard, middle with fire, with maybe the biggest issue being the length of its animations... but even then people make more of that then is necessarily true), it just doesn't let you use its main gimmick as you should.

ORRRR we could all stop being so diametrically opposed. It doesn't have to be all 100% one way or the other for how you feel about KB. People should learn to use KB well and melee types don't have to get all twisted up when the mob they were fighting gets knocked away (especially if that mob is going to die in 2 seconds anyway). KB isn't pulling monsters to the Portal Corp. courtyard or insulting your mother, it's just a power ability that can be used well or badly.

And Bill, you had better be grateful they gave us an option to take away KB that didn't require you to give it up as well. I like you and all, but your pro-KB stance on Solar Flare makes next to no sense to me... but at least they gave you the option to keep it.

Keep in mind that my anti-KB stance in Solar Flare comes from a player that has an Energy/Energy Blaster with a battlecry of "This calls for more knockback!" (and I get a bit annoyed with another player on my server that has some issues with players that have knockback powers entirely... yes, that same Energy/Energy Blaster could be useful on the adds in the BAF, but whatever).

Again, the option to turn off KB is a compromise for players and devs (and this proc doesn't even go far enough with it, as I said before), so calling sour grapes on it, especially someone with a desire to keep KB in all their powers, is a bit iffy.

Why even throw in the proc? Have there be a Null the Gull option to make KB powers KD without a proc. That way people can build as they want and you wouldn't hear the complaints you currently do. As for making this set desirable, they could easily make a damage set that people would want without this proc, so it's not like it was needed.

ORRRRRR, keep this proc and have there be a second, Null the Gull option. That way you have the choice to turn it off in all your powers or just one. Would work nicely, to my mind.

That and comparing to Brutes and group/forum think... the OP's "feelings" about the set come from going from a Brute to a Tank. There aren't any numbers with that, just a feeling. There should be a weakening between the two, given the design, so that shouldn't be a surprise.

And with this thread, I'm sure people will forum think into believing the set is weaker. Someone on a team earlier this week asked me if Staff really was bad for Tankers, given what he had read on the forums. Sure, he was questioning it somewhat by asking me my opinion, but most players aren't necessarily going to do that, from my experience.

Yeah, I'd agree it's not optimal, but saying it's not a good match isn't accurate either. Besides what you commented on, I think the +defense from Guarded Spin is helpful when you are leveling for SR, and I'm sure it'll be helpful in newer content with the higher accuracy and higher levels from mobs. Having that defense to build on also lets you build for other things from powers and IOs. The build I'm working on will have a good chunk of +HP and +regen besides having good recharge.

I can get not liking it more for how it adds up all its numbers (like Dual Blades), though it still seems so odd to me. It's not like how Flame Thrower or even Burn used to be, with a long, drawn out DoT. Wanting one big number versus 2-3 adding up to relatively the same amount in the same time just seems like a big perception issue.

But hey, I enjoy my "Hulk Smash" War Mace and Super Strength sets, so I can kind of get the perception (as long as it doesn't disregard the overall balance numbers).