Can't quite reach Incarnate Def cap, is it futile?
By
Caulderone,
Posted on: 2012-05-19 18:40 in Tankers
Actually, the Incarnate soft-cap is 59%.
Running DN should effectively get you there versus most things. Other than your accuracy being way lower than what I would like, I would think you should do mostly ok with that build.
Here are the questions I would ask about the build, looking for improvement:
Why is the Glad. Rech/Resist in Tough? I'm not sure I understand that versus a End/Res or pure Res.
I also notice that you are over the rule of 5 on two different HP bonuses.
I'm also not sure why you went for the 5th Eradication versus frankenslotting the 5th slot.
The Glad enhancement is a mistake, it should be the +3% def/resist teleport. So I guess that puts me around 50%, rather than 47%.
As for the other stuff... I dunno, sloppy I guess? In my live build, I seem to have only 4 Eradications. I pretty much just have specific goals, defense and hitpoints in this case. Any other bonuses I get are pretty much just hapless bystanders.
I updated the build to with the Glad +3% def, 4 Eradications, and I got rid of one of the excessive health bonuses. I could drop Dark Watcher's Despair in favor of something else, but the 5% recharge seemed appealing to me.
I have no idea how to get more accuracy without losing defense and hitpoints.
"There's villainy ... and then there's supervillainy. The difference is performance."
-Doc_Reverend
With those fixes, the build seems fairly solid to me. I don't see anything else that jumps out at me.
Drop dark obliteration and get T4 barrier and you can incarnate softcap to all but psi.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.956
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Miss U: Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Willpower
Secondary Power Set: Kinetic Melee
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(3), Numna-Heal/Rchg(3), Aegis-ResDam(5), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(5), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(7)
Level 1: Quick Strike -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9)
Level 2: Body Blow -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50)
Level 4: Smashing Blow -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(13), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(15), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50)
Level 6: Indomitable Will -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 8: Rise to the Challenge -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal(21), Numna-Heal/Rchg(23), Taunt-I(23), Taunt-I(25)
Level 10: Fast Healing -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(31), Numna-Heal/Rchg(31)
Level 12: Quick Recovery -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(29), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(29)
Level 14: Mind Over Body -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(42), RctvArm-ResDam(42), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 16: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(17), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(17), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21)
Level 18: Heightened Senses -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(19), LkGmblr-Def(19)
Level 20: Power Siphon -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(43), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(46), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(46), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(46), GSFC-Build%(50)
Level 22: Tough -- GA-3defTpProc(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(31), ResDam-I(33)
Level 24: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(33), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(33)
Level 26: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(34), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(34), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(34), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(36)
Level 28: Burst -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(36), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(36), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37)
Level 30: Fly -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
Level 32: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(37), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(39), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 35: Strength of Will -- ResDam-I(A)
Level 38: Concentrated Strike -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), MotTanker-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), SMotTanker-Rchg/Res%(40)
Level 41: Gloom -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43)
Level 44: Darkest Night -- DarkWD-ToHitDeb(A), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(45), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(45), DarkWD-Rchg/EndRdx(45)
Level 47: Hover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(48), LkGmblr-Def(48)
Level 49: Combat Jumping -- Ksmt-ToHit+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 4: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(25)
Level 4: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), Efficacy-EndMod(27), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx(27)
Level 50: Agility Partial Core Revamp
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
------------
With your low amount of recharge in the power, maybe it's not a huge loss anyway. Main issue is you'll do less AoE damage. It's why I switch to the elec/ss tank, got tired of no aoe on my WP/KM. I personally sacrificed softcap to get nearly permanent power siphon for ST damage, you might consider doing that and worrying less about solo tanking 8 man stuff in DA. Alternately, use the ST damage to take out the guys debuffing you.
Active (Freedom): Setna (Ice/Psi Dom), Arram (WP/KM Tank), Tesmiel (Elec/SS Tank), Astredax (Robot/Dark Mastermind), Operative Vidali (melee fortunata)
Retired (Virtue): Gaav (Inv/EM Tank), Baqra (Fire/SS Tank)
Quote:
With only 22% DDR, it's not going to matter a bunch anyhoo. Most of the enemies have sufficient defense debuff at 8x to wreck him but good.
|
Originally Posted by Tsuji
you might consider doing that and worrying less about solo tanking 8 man stuff in DA.
|
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
So I guess the lesson to take away from this is that my problem isn't set bonuses, it's WP itself. It just isn't up for the task in a post-incarnate world.. =( Well, at least not without Darkest Night.
"There's villainy ... and then there's supervillainy. The difference is performance."
-Doc_Reverend
My Invulnerability Tank sits at 46% Def to everything and has never had problems with Incarnate stuff besides the AV's with their auto-kill powers. From my experience having a fully incarnate WP Brute and Scrapper also both softcapped, WP has it's moments where you seem invincible at one moment, then your face-planting like a Blaster the next.
Quote:
I've had DA groups curbstomp my Inv/SS tank. But I was running +4x8. An occasional "Whoops! *FLOORSMOOTCH*" is to be expected every now and again.|
Originally Posted by Hatred666
My Invulnerability Tank sits at 46% Def to everything and has never had problems with Incarnate stuff besides the AV's with their auto-kill powers. From my experience having a fully incarnate WP Brute and Scrapper also both softcapped, WP has it's moments where you seem invincible at one moment, then your face-planting like a Blaster the next.
|
On WP, I tend to get much tighter swings between "Okay" and "Dead" than I do with Invuln. Still, outside of cases like this, WP is Just Friggin' AWESOME.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
I really loved WP up until the new DA came out. Perhaps I just need to learn the enemy groups better, and set up some custom target binds.
"There's villainy ... and then there's supervillainy. The difference is performance."
-Doc_Reverend
Quote:
Something else to try, as a constructive suggestion, is the temp power Stun Grenades. They are a short (11s) mag 3 stun, meaning they will stun Lts.|
Originally Posted by _Toxa_
I really loved WP up until the new DA came out. Perhaps I just need to learn the enemy groups better, and set up some custom target binds.
|
Most of the horrible debuffs come from Lts., so make a target bind and hit them with a grenade, then kill them first.
It might help enough to get by.
edit: And, the new (coming soon) KB to KD proc might make Repulsing Torrent worth having, too.
Quote:
Does Energy Torrent have KB in Tanker Ancillaries? If so, I am SO confused by how the devs set up that power... Controllers, Brutes (and I believe Doms) all have KD in that power... not sure why they didn't spread that to tanks. At any rate, it's a nice opener for my StJ/EA Brute on the DA mobs.|
Originally Posted by Caulderone
Something else to try, as a constructive suggestion, is the temp power Stun Grenades. They are a short (11s) mag 3 stun, meaning they will stun Lts.
Most of the horrible debuffs come from Lts., so make a target bind and hit them with a grenade, then kill them first. It might help enough to get by. edit: And, the new (coming soon) KB to KD proc might make Repulsing Torrent worth having, too. |
Besides looking for lieutenants, I also suggest looking for boss types. Certain ones, the rad ones in particular, really hurt my EA Brute, so I drop them ASAP. Other characters, like my Fire/Fire Tanker, are just equal opportunity or lieut focused, because the bosses all affect him int he same way.
Toxa, I'm finding this thread interesting. It seems like WP should still be pretty solid in DA, especially with decent defense and all its regen. So it might be a strategy thing (and remembering that it should be challenging). Though you do have me worried that the 55% positional defense I'm aiming for with my SR/Staff Tanker is too low, heh. Though he does have Guarded Spin to go on top of that. We'll see how it goes, I guess.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Quote:
I was talking about Kinetic Melee's Repulsing Torrent, which is currently auto-skipped by most due to KnockBack.|
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Does Energy Torrent have KB in Tanker Ancillaries? If so, I am SO confused by how the devs set up that power... Controllers, Brutes (and I believe Doms) all have KD in that power... not sure why they didn't spread that to tanks. At any rate, it's a nice opener for my StJ/EA Brute on the DA mobs.
|
Energy Torrent (ancillary) is KnockDown already.
Quote:
Are you level shifted? My WP/Mace tanker has no trouble in DA (and looks like it has slightly lower mitigation than your build). I have to herd two or three groups together and not use SoW and inspires in order to get killed. BP, Knives, Talons. None of them pose much threat in a single spawn. I do have and use Ageless, which helps a ton vs. the end drain and debuffs though. Just trying to figure out the differences in our perceptions.
|
Originally Posted by _Toxa_
So I guess the lesson to take away from this is that my problem isn't set bonuses, it's WP itself. It just isn't up for the task in a post-incarnate world.. =( Well, at least not without Darkest Night.
|
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Quote:
That's probably the key. Ageless Radial for Debuff protection is HUGE. I talked my friend into going with it for his WP Brute, and he raves about it now.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
I do have and use Ageless, which helps a ton vs. the end drain and debuffs though. Just trying to figure out the differences in our perceptions.
|
It's phenomenal how being able to basically wipe off debuffs with a click can help. Even at it's lowest values in the second minute, it's still awesome.
Most folks don't seem to like it, preferring Barrier, but Ageless Radial is my favorite Destiny power. It may also be what the OP needs to get over the hump. Don't know why I hadn't thought to suggest it already.
Quote:
It is nice when my defense is lowered to single digits or even on those very rare occasions pushed negative, in one click I am back to near full def and it stops the cascade failure cold. But I always presumed Barrier could basically have the same effect?|
Originally Posted by Caulderone
It's phenomenal how being able to basically wipe off debuffs with a click can help. Even at it's lowest values in the second minute, it's still awesome.
|
Of course, my build also rides a much closer line on endurance whereas the OP's build is flush with end, so Ageless has additional appeal to me.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Ive been doing some soloing in DA on my WP/SS tank and have not had much of a problem. I ti not sc to the main ones but really close and I didnt take it to vill side to get those said powers, I took the fire epic pool instead but still not much difficulty's with it.
Quote:
My tank is +3, and I've been able to run at +3x8 with (and only with) Darkest Night. Prior to re-building her, I was happily using the Mu pool for Ball Lightning and Electrifying Fences for more AoE damage. She has Ion Judgment, Diamagnetic & Reactive interface, Barrier destiny and Storm Elemental lore. I actually didn't realize that Ageless provided debuff resistance, I will work on getting that. That sounds like exactly what I need. Without Darkest Night running, my defense will drop from 47% into negative values within seconds of jumping into a group of Talons or BP.
|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Are you level shifted? My WP/Mace tanker has no trouble in DA (and looks like it has slightly lower mitigation than your build). I have to herd two or three groups together and not use SoW and inspires in order to get killed. BP, Knives, Talons. None of them pose much threat in a single spawn. I do have and use Ageless, which helps a ton vs. the end drain and debuffs though. Just trying to figure out the differences in our perceptions.
|
"There's villainy ... and then there's supervillainy. The difference is performance."
-Doc_Reverend
Ageless is a godsend for quite a few defensive sets due to their average DDR values. The fact that it helps again end drain (present in more than average quantity in Incarnate content) strengthens its case for one of the better Destiny powers for defense oriented toons, imo.
As for the initial question, Incarnate softcap is nice to have but if it comes at too big a sacrifice for your toon (in the manner of regen/rech/dam depending what your secondary focus is), I don't believe it is worth it.
@Viper Kinji
Currently working on:
Turtle Snapper - SD/MA/Ice Tanker
Quote:
I have to admit, I am glad to hear that Ageless works so well against Defense debuffs as well when compared to Barrier. I had trouble with my endurance in Lambda trials thanks to all the recovery debuffs, which was the primary thing that pushed me away from Barrier to Ageless. I have often wondered whether losing out on the +resists was worth it (I haven't had any issues with Ageless, but wondered if Barrier could help prevent some of those rare spike damages better). It seems it is very much worth it.
|
Originally Posted by viper_kinji
Ageless is a godsend for quite a few defensive sets due to their average DDR values. The fact that it helps again end drain (present in more than average quantity in Incarnate content) strengthens its case for one of the better Destiny powers for defense oriented toons, imo.
|
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
This is regarding my Will/KM Tank, who is feeling rather squishy in Dark Astoria these days. I've been trying to push her defense up to the Incarnate cap (55% right?), from the 43% S/L, 40% E/NE/F/C that she has right now. However the highest I can muster is ~47% across the board.
Am I just wasting my time? Should be be content with 47% as a WP tank? It just feels like the incarnate content in DA makes mincemeat of Willpower. =(
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.956
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Miss U: Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Willpower
Secondary Power Set: Kinetic Melee
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(3), Numna-Heal/Rchg(3), Aegis-ResDam(5), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(5), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(7)
Level 1: Quick Strike -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9)
Level 2: Body Blow -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50)
Level 4: Smashing Blow -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(13), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(15), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50)
Level 6: Indomitable Will -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 8: Rise to the Challenge -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal(21), Numna-Heal/Rchg(23), Taunt-I(23), Taunt-I(25)
Level 10: Fast Healing -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(31), Numna-Heal/Rchg(31)
Level 12: Quick Recovery -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(29), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(29)
Level 14: Mind Over Body -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(42), RctvArm-ResDam(42), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 16: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(17), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(17), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21)
Level 18: Heightened Senses -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(19), LkGmblr-Def(19)
Level 20: Power Siphon -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(43), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(46), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(46), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(46), GSFC-Build%(50)
Level 22: Tough -- GA-3defTpProc(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(31), ResDam-I(33)
Level 24: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(33), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(33)
Level 26: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(34), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(34), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(34), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(36)
Level 28: Burst -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(36), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(36), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37)
Level 30: Fly -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
Level 32: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(37), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(39)
Level 35: Strength of Will -- ResDam-I(A)
Level 38: Concentrated Strike -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), MotTanker-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), SMotTanker-Rchg/Res%(40)
Level 41: Gloom -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43)
Level 44: Darkest Night -- DarkWD-ToHitDeb(A), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(45), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(45), DarkWD-Rchg/EndRdx(45)
Level 47: Dark Obliteration -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(48), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48)
Level 49: Combat Jumping -- Ksmt-ToHit+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 4: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(25)
Level 4: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), Efficacy-EndMod(27), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx(27)
Level 50: Agility Partial Core Revamp
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
------------
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
"There's villainy ... and then there's supervillainy. The difference is performance."
-Doc_Reverend