G_Tanker

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- Avoid AE farms. This may sound odd, since AE will rocket you up levels on a good farm team, but if you've never earned a 50 the regular way, you'll miss out. Having a first 50 which you put some effort and time into IMO is more satisfactory. Especially when you look at your badge list AE does have some fantastic story-missions, though, and I would recommend those (like the Fusionette Task Force).

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... also, given AE farms are typically one of 3-4 different opponents being all you ever see 1-50, you really miss out on learning what 98% of the rest of the game can do to you... I definitely ran into a pug rikti group one day where the blaster (36) said, "I can't do anything! WHAT?! Why can't I do anything? What does "held" mean?!?!"

Heheh.

... well I'd always recommend rad over emp, but if you really love healing then Emp is your best option.

Choose what you enjoy.

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I'll trade criticals to have gauntlet and defiance added as inherants.

Thanks.

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Hey, if they gave Scrappers Vigilance, scrappers would get even MORE mileage out of teammates!

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Aggro caps at 17... which is what, one group on a big team? Less? I guess if you're on a smaller team herding a bunch of small groups with some outside your toggle radii... but that seems like too much of an outlier to plan for.

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...
RI group one, EF group 2, LR group 3, return to camp.
As they get into camp, other players pick them up, and the rest remember you and come screaming along.

If you're going to pull 3-4 groups at a time on a defender, softcap is nice (note: I don't say required. I pulled multi spawns on my dark arch from the 20's to 50 a few weeks back without IO's). Heck, ITF's would be *so* boring if you only fought one spawn at a time. Lots of fun when multiple people are pulling spawns down off of towers / ramps to a kill zone.

THAT's the word. I kept trying 'screenshot 1' 'uiscreen 1' 'ui 1' and failing. Thanks!

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Most scrapper attacks have a mag 3 taunt component (Tank is mag 4) so you taunt stuff by hitting it.

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I'm not aware of any scrapper attack with these properties. You just generate hate by attacking, the more damage and the more often it's reapplied the better, but it's not a taunt effect. On my DB/WP, I could get a blaster friend to steal aggro on something I'm attacking quite easily simply by outdamaging me.

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I should say threat level three as opposed to genuine taunt. Blasters are threat level one. How this interaction works, I'm genuinely not sure, but I tend not to have problems with blasters ripping agro when I'm actively hitting something. Occasionally, sure... (ed: I mean on my SR, not my invuln... invuln's taunt aura is ridic-strong)

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Thing about softcapped ranged defense is, most of the time it will be wasted.

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Depends on how many groups you intend to agro at a time...

Kat is one of the top sets overall, and not mentioned much nowadays. Most threads are spines (farming) or fire ('the new hotness!') or dm (av solo).

SR is a late bloomer, and while divine avalanche will help with melee, it's rough for a new player.

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It's ok. We still believe you. A lot of my first screenshots had no UI turned on, because until I checked my screenshot folder after killing 10 or 15 AVs, I didn't even know screenshots defaulted to having no UI. But after getting screenshots that count, I feel as though I don't really need to go back and get proper screenshots for those no-UI fights.

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What *IS* the key for proper UI screenshot? I knew a while ago, but I forgot, and it's driving me nuts.

I 'spose I should explain a bit;

A) Taunt aura or way to hold agro is key. SR, WP, regen will have problems, Invuln is amazing, shields is (I assume) good, and fire and dark do well with damage auras provided they hit with their damage (my broadsword / dark tanked his teams of 8 from 1-50 before AE existed, just radio missions at CL4... my dm/invuln tanked his teams but that was at launch).

B) Most scrapper attacks have a mag 3 taunt component (Tank is mag 4) so you taunt stuff by hitting it. Scrappers also have a high innate 'threat level'. So big aoe attacks (fsc, spine burst, etc) will 'taunt' if there's no higher mag taunt around. (inv/shield)Auras are best, attacks are good, both is stellar. Edit: I like energy torrent because it has the mag 3 taunt component. Group of runners chasing a squishy? *poof* damage + taunt.

C) Scrappers, out of the box, are hit or miss for alphas and tanking. Some combinations handle it well, some do not. If you tend to run with a lot of buffs/debuffs (2-3 members), you should be fine tanking for a team of 8 vs. +0-2's. Know your weaknesses and get buffs to cover your holes.

My latest invuln scrapper tanked level 53 and 54 boss farms as main tank the minute he hit 28 (invincibility - taunt aura) and from there quickly to 50 - he had 8% defense and 60% resist when he started tanking 53 boss farms... before buffs.


Scrappers will never be as survivable as a tank, but it's a team game - get the right teammates and you won't need to be, and you'll kill faster as well.

My teams? Lots.

Well, there are often other scrappers, too.

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But here’s the thing. When a mob peeled off or an ambush came or the scrapper accidently agro’d the next group, I didn’t have to run around like a crazed rabbit punching everything. I simply sat where I was and fired off taunt to pull the stragglers to where I was. I didn’t have to move a muscle.

My quality of life doubled, and my job tanking was that much easier. Simply because I had the ranged AOE agro getter I needed. Tanking the rest of the TF was a breeze. Much easier than the first half.

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FWIW, Laser Beam Eyes and Energy Torrent both have taunt components for a tanker - when you hit the 40's, you get access to "ranged taunt". (Same w/fire blast/ball, etc)

Also FWIW, I've tanked 53 boss farms on a 15 shield tanker and used the level 1 ranged magic power (apprentice charm?) to snag runners - works if they weren't damaged, typically, doesn't work if a blaster had hit them.

Ugh Des, even with a great IO build my broadsword/dark loathes those buggers. Sure, I can kill a spawn, with a combination of build, skill, and luck on spawn organization/placement, but it's just not worth it.

Scrappers don't need any fixing.

As for usefulness on teams, given players of equal skill with some sort of aoe damage/taunt aura, I prefer a scrapper over a tank. I run with plenty of debuffs, so the extra toughness isn't needed, and the scrappers tend to both be more aggressive and do more damage.

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Is it normal to take straight up "Taunt", or is there enough threat from the other abilities to make it obsolete?

I have seen some builds with it and some with out across the various Tanker posts.

Thanks.

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Reasons to take:
A) It makes a good IO mule. My latest shield/fire/pyre has it six slotted and actually uses it quite a bit whenever comb/fsc/fb/sc aren't available.
B) It is an autohit power with no end cost that has a few nice tricks. Great for either getting stragglers, pulling a new group, or keeping a hard target (ie av)'s attention.

Arguments against:
A) Most primaries' taunt auras are good enough that you don't need it to hold agro on anything near you. Exceptions being WP (poor agro) and Ice/Fire/Dark (they have a tohit check - beware massive tohit debuffs)
B) Gauntlet's not bad. I have four tankers with fire melee, none have issue holding agro in a group just through aoe damage. I've had single hard targets ripped off me but incinerate + gfs usually gets them back w/o taunt.

Overall, there's not much reason to take it unless you want to IO mule it, you are going to fight extremely hard targets (ie: GW and LR are both bosses that taunt has use against for positioning/kiting), or you feel like you need more agro management.

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*EDIT* If the whole point to your novella like posts was that SO built Fire and Dark Tankers can't tank the ITF without lots of support, then I agree with you.

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Fascinating. That took a while.

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This is also a water is wet type of point but you seem to really need someone to agree with you so there ya go.

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Not exactly. I see a statement like the following;

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Awww...but it'd be funner to run them through the TFs

Sadly, the ITF has ruined me on some tankers *glares at DA & FA* Love the TF so much, and I've yet to see a decent DA or FA tank survive that TF on their own.

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Fire and Dark Tankers do just fine in the ITF. Badly built Tankers of all varieties do not.

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... and I feel the urge to interject. Because you've insinuated the player must be a badly built tanker, where in reality the ITF is geared against dark and fire because of the mechanics involved; a fire or dark tanker will not well on their own even with a "good" build unless that particular build happens to be very heavy S/L def. They can invest hundreds of millions of influence to counter this, or simply roll with appropriate support, and either way you'll have a tanker that can handle the ITF. Suggesting that the player's build is the problem is somewhere between oversimplification and ignorance.

Typed Damage: The "energy" part of a "ranged, energy" attack.
Typed Defense: (Probably meant "Positional defense") The "ranged" part of a "ranged, energy" attack.

Game checks the types on the attack type (ie a fire melee attack might be 'fire, smashing, melee') and takes your top defense value. There's type (cold, fire, smashing) and positional (ranged, melee, aoe).

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Or you can go "Pinball Wizard" and build paid of Kinetics, once you get Speed Boost you're (literally) off to the races and it's a very aggressive set to play.

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Droolworthy playstyle. Grab a duo of corrs or defenders and go to town... of course, it's much more of a "kill them before they kill you" playstyle, but you give each other status protection (ID) and can both heal, drain damage and speed... etc!

Best of luck, I'm going to get out of the office while my scripts load for the night... enjoy your new duo, whatever it ends up as!

One other quick comment;

Tankers are very slow to mature in my experience, not 'good' till 22 and SO's. Poor dam-end ratio, few attacks, weak shields before So's, etc.
Brutes are around the middle,
Scrappers are the fastest right out of the gate because you can rely heavily on your offense. As a bonus, most sets get access to status resist pretty early, I think 16 is the latest you'll get it.

If you are staying low game, and someone is playing a melee, I'd rec scrapper > brute > tanker.

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Are any of these combos good without the money to dump into IO sets? Part of the problem I have been having finding decent builds has been that most of them are slotted with them. It makes it hard to know how I should be slotting while levelling up.

Thanks again.

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Most buffing powersets don't get a ton out of IO's. The melee toon, if you have one, will have a lot more to gain (relatively speaking) from IO's.

To pile on excitedly to Smurphy's post;

If you want to be good right out the door and in the low game, why not run a dark defender (you) and a blaster?

A dark defender that takes every power up through fearsome stare (stopping only for a travel power) is a massive tank in the low game - better than any tanker by far as long as it's played well. Here's what you go for:

#1) Darkest Night: A toggle that significantly reduces both chance to hit (enhanceable) and damage per attack (unenhancable) of all nearby opponents. This gives you a chance to learn new skills, 'toggle pulling' and 'toggle herding' to keep them clumped together.
#2) Tar Patch: Anything standing on this takes approximately 30% more damage and is slow to run over it. Very, very powerful runspeed slow against +0-1's. Toggle a group, run around a corner, drop patch, they're stuck together and ready for flambe.
#3) Twilight Grasp: A large heal to everyone around you (must hit).
#4) Howling Twilight: A large, AOE stun that auto hits every minion, and decreases regeneration by 500% for 30 seconds.
...
...
... It also happens to be a res, but at the low game, it's you're auto-hit stun. Use it as such.
#5) Shadow Fall - at the low game this is an incredibly expensive toggle which more or less makes you a little more sneaky. It does have some fantastic stats to it, but before SO's this is the only power I'd consider skipping. I typically always take it just so I can sneak up on spawns.
#6) Fearsome Stare - Another gigantic -tohit buff in a huge cone. Oh, and it fears. Feared minions only get to act once every few seconds. Insta control.

Take those six powers, in more or less that order as soon as they're available, and you will dominate the low game. Then, of course, you need something to kill those opponents... and in comes your son!

There's a reason darks are called "tankfenders".

First 50 : Ice/Storm Controller
First 50 Defender: Storm/Psi
First 50 Corruptor: Fire/Storm

... LOOOOVE teh storm.

Frankly, please do me a favor - if people think your set sucks, just avoid them. There are people out there like me who are hungry for more -res debuffs (and the overall safety freezing rain brings), enjoy swinging many times faster than their opponents due to snowstorm, and like having a hurritank with steamy mist in back as an island of safety on huge pulls.

Leave the "LFHEAL0R" folks to their own teams...

Well, my thought is with a kin corr the son would be able to take advantage of siphon power/speed to up his damage/recharge regularly... and ID & SB for the brute... and son would be able to heal both of them w/o issue.

Maybe a something/something brute and an ice,sonic,ar/kin corr?

Regen seems to be a better solo set, and WP a better group set. /shrug

I think regen needs some tweaking in an upward direction, but like all scrapper sets, it's pretty durn gud.