(Newbie question) Scrapper as Tank?
My teams? Lots.
Well, there are often other scrappers, too.
Scrappers can take alphas by running into a group first, but they'll not hold the attention of the mob for long. If you have a taunt aura it helps.
I 'spose I should explain a bit;
A) Taunt aura or way to hold agro is key. SR, WP, regen will have problems, Invuln is amazing, shields is (I assume) good, and fire and dark do well with damage auras provided they hit with their damage (my broadsword / dark tanked his teams of 8 from 1-50 before AE existed, just radio missions at CL4... my dm/invuln tanked his teams but that was at launch).
B) Most scrapper attacks have a mag 3 taunt component (Tank is mag 4) so you taunt stuff by hitting it. Scrappers also have a high innate 'threat level'. So big aoe attacks (fsc, spine burst, etc) will 'taunt' if there's no higher mag taunt around. (inv/shield)Auras are best, attacks are good, both is stellar. Edit: I like energy torrent because it has the mag 3 taunt component. Group of runners chasing a squishy? *poof* damage + taunt.
C) Scrappers, out of the box, are hit or miss for alphas and tanking. Some combinations handle it well, some do not. If you tend to run with a lot of buffs/debuffs (2-3 members), you should be fine tanking for a team of 8 vs. +0-2's. Know your weaknesses and get buffs to cover your holes.
My latest invuln scrapper tanked level 53 and 54 boss farms as main tank the minute he hit 28 (invincibility - taunt aura) and from there quickly to 50 - he had 8% defense and 60% resist when he started tanking 53 boss farms... before buffs.
Scrappers will never be as survivable as a tank, but it's a team game - get the right teammates and you won't need to be, and you'll kill faster as well.
I've held aggro for half an hour in AV fights with full teams on an Invul scrapper. I consider that long enough.
Now, if you want to hold absolutely all the aggro of every group 100% of the time, the problem is you'll have to sacrifice a power pool to get Provoke ; but Invincibility by itself is good enough to hold most aggro, most of the time (and it's very easy to keep the aggro of a single tough target all the time as long as you attack it to stack more hate on top of the aura).
Other scrapper secondaries have a much harder time in my experience, the taunt in their auras don't last as long (if they have a taunt aura at all).
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Most scrapper attacks have a mag 3 taunt component (Tank is mag 4) so you taunt stuff by hitting it.
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I'm not aware of any scrapper attack with these properties. You just generate hate by attacking, the more damage and the more often it's reapplied the better, but it's not a taunt effect. On my DB/WP, I could get a blaster friend to steal aggro on something I'm attacking quite easily simply by outdamaging me.
Last night my DM/Shield tanked for the Kahn TF I was on... We only had 6 people... no other melee on the team.
I admit, I can't hold agro as well as a tank, and there were some deaths (not me, though).
We finished in 55 min.
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
My BS/Shield tends to out aggro most Tanks, especially Willpower Tanks.
And my DM/Inv was so ridiculously survivable that I respecced to bring in Taunt.
In general though Scrappers are not Tanks, and shouldn't be thought of as such.
Even if a tough scrapper is often better than most weak, there is the fundamental diference of playstyle, and the inherent powers that boost Tanking and/or Scraperring.
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Most scrapper attacks have a mag 3 taunt component (Tank is mag 4) so you taunt stuff by hitting it.
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I'm not aware of any scrapper attack with these properties. You just generate hate by attacking, the more damage and the more often it's reapplied the better, but it's not a taunt effect. On my DB/WP, I could get a blaster friend to steal aggro on something I'm attacking quite easily simply by outdamaging me.
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I should say threat level three as opposed to genuine taunt. Blasters are threat level one. How this interaction works, I'm genuinely not sure, but I tend not to have problems with blasters ripping agro when I'm actively hitting something. Occasionally, sure... (ed: I mean on my SR, not my invuln... invuln's taunt aura is ridic-strong)
I built my spines/willpower scrapper for light tanking specifically, and I have plenty of actual tankers for heavier jobs. That character would not be my first choice to tank Lord Recluse on a master's run, but has tanked Reichman and Romulus, and can hold aggro on regular spawns as well.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
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Most scrapper attacks have a mag 3 taunt component (Tank is mag 4) so you taunt stuff by hitting it.
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I'm not aware of any scrapper attack with these properties. You just generate hate by attacking, the more damage and the more often it's reapplied the better, but it's not a taunt effect. On my DB/WP, I could get a blaster friend to steal aggro on something I'm attacking quite easily simply by outdamaging me.
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I should say threat level three as opposed to genuine taunt. Blasters are threat level one. How this interaction works, I'm genuinely not sure, but I tend not to have problems with blasters ripping agro when I'm actively hitting something. Occasionally, sure... (ed: I mean on my SR, not my invuln... invuln's taunt aura is ridic-strong)
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If you've got questions about aggro/threat and how they work in CoX, check out this.
Something to remember is that Taunt is viewed as a mez effect. All that the mag of it does is determine which targets it can effect and which it can't. A mag 3 Taunt (such as */wp's and other Scrapper taunt auras) will only affect lts and lower without any additional mags thrown in. A mag 4 Taunt (all tank taunt auras and gauntlet effects) will affect pretty much anything though (not sure about AVs though I don't believe that their taunt protection is any higher than a boss's).
I have no problems at all holding aggro on a full cap of mobs with my Fire/SD. FSC + Shield Charge to start the fight and everything is glued to me until it dies. Add in another FSC every 6 seconds and I don't even really need any taunt power though it would be nice to have one just to be able to more quickly react to adds coming in.
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I have no problems at all holding aggro on a full cap of mobs with my Fire/SD. FSC + Shield Charge to start the fight and everything is glued to me until it dies. Add in another FSC every 6 seconds and I don't even really need any taunt power though it would be nice to have one just to be able to more quickly react to adds coming in.
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Shiled also has a very strong taunt aura in Against all odds which is why it is so easy to hold agro as a shield scrapper
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
Damage Aura's keep their attention pretty well too.
I've been sole tank on my invul scrapper. As others have said, it's ridiculously easy with that set.
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
I've tanked some 52 boss farms now and again with my Spines/Dark Toggle Man inspired build. Either because there was no tank or because the tank was a timid and squishy lowbie. Of course, between Quills and the three foe-affecting auras in DA I can occasionally pick up aggro even if there's an active tank around. It's quite painful and I'm not sure I'd recommend it.
Of course, with normal spawns it's a lot better as they get affected by the Fear and Disorient. I bet with Dark Regen and some better slotting it'd be a great pseudo-tank for run-of-the-mill teaming at least.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
How often are scrappers used as the tank for groups? The sole tank?