FourSpeed

I don't disagree with most of these points.

I've little doubt that the bulk of the 43M toons are inf deadweight.

I agree the upper category of wealth could easily be a few hundred ppl

I'm fine with L50's being a minority of toons. If I take the simple 500K known
L50's over the 43M character base it's 1.2% by itself (as a minimum).

Agreeing with all those points, and shifting population numbers accordingly in my
spreadsheet (throwing out the real survey, distribution and pareto principle -- all difficult
decisions to justify, mind you) with a 500K account population basis and the
following wealth categories (calculated using middle of range or 100B for A):

Wow. Get out of circulation for a few days and all heck breaks loose

Hmmmm... Ok, I did some more digging...

I went to look for Arcanaville's thread about AT Popularity that she originally
took from a BaBs post circa 2008-2009 and found her re-post here.

Basically, ~13.5% of active toons played when that came out were Scrappers.

Assuming the numbers hold, let's imagine that 13.5% of the 43M toons created
are scrappers (disregarding whether they're active or not at this point)

That would imply that appx 5.8M toons have appx 12T on them (no mention
is made whether that is their simple inf total, or if it includes stored bids, gleemail,
SG storage etc.). I'll assume that it's cash directly on hand straight-up.

On average then, each scrapper toon would have ~2M on them (2,067,183), which
seems like a pittance over all.

That said, if I extrapolate that over the 43M total toons, I come up with a total
of 88.9T in "cash" -- that ought to make Fulmens proud.

However, I don't begin to think that covers the story at all.

Edit:
Zeroth: I've assumed that 13.5% is still an accurate portrayal these days
although I suspect it isn't. Still, we've not seen anything to state otherwise
in that time.
/Edit

First it assumes that all AT's make inf at the same rate - a point we know is clearly
NOT true, just by looking at simple Farming Builds, nevermind any other factors.

Second, it presumes that the bulk of our wealth is on-hand cash - another point I
know to be untrue. Only about 10% of mine is "cash-on-hand", and amusingly
enough in my case, almost none of that on a scrapper (I've not made a scrapper
since I-2 days, and never gotten one above L15)

My 30B+ wouldn't even be counted at all in their figure.

Third, even among the AT's I *do* play, my wealth isn't spread evenly - For instance,
I have a Stalker and a Widow that have ~60% of my entire wealth on just those two
toons even though I also have billionaire Blasters, Controllers, and Brutes.

Fourth, we're using generic averages. With average cash on hand of 2M, clearly,
none of *those* toons would be marketeers

Unfortunately, the "12T on Scrappers", doesn't actually give us any meaningful
information about the amount of inf in-game. That 12T could easily be 120T,
if like me, they store a lot of inf in market bids. It could be the bulk of an account's
wealth, or it could be virtually none of it - depending on how "Scrapperific" their
owners tend to be.

One thing I think would be fairly self evident at this point is that 100T would
be an absolute, bare-bones, rock-bottom minimum for an in-game number.

For me, I find the 43M toons and the 500K accounts with at least one L50 toon
on them far more intriguing to the in-game influence question, and I think that
analysis points to a LOT more than 100T in-game. Once again, a number 10X
higher than that would not surprise me in the slightest.


Regards,
4

Granny also added a billion to the bonfire last night while roasting some marshmallows
to put in her mug of hot chocolate.


Cheers,
4

There's something about agreeing with Forbin that makes me nervous, but wth.

There are lots of ways to level quickly in the game, but there's only *this* way
to get more than 10 items out of a respec, and for someone like me who Frankenslots
toons early, and occasionally respecs them later, an account-wide item like
this has quite a bit of appeal.

It's also pretty handy for "crafting factory" marketing toons (of which I have a
couple), and it synergizes nicely with the Portable Crafting table accolade as well.

I'll be checking my points when I get home tonight - I think they might just
eke a sale out of me for these.


Regards,
4

Having been around awhile, I have more than one favorite.

I tend towards squishies for the most part, so I have a couple Blasters on the list:

A> E3 Blaster - my namesake and original Main - still gets played a lot (and I
agree with Electric Knight on how to play him - though I blap less, and drain
more, I think). He's a very controller-ish feeling toon for a blaster.

B> Fire/Nrg Blaster - He's a more of a "true Blaster" toon - He burns mobs down
before they become a nuisance. Control? Bah! Dead=Control...


I also tend to like a slower, more tactical approach to fights, so I also have:

C> NB/Nin Stalker - in a couple flavors, one level-capped at L28, and an L50, both
of which also double as my PvP toons (when I bother with PvP).

D> PB - Have a few of these because, quite simply put, there's not a single
way to play them, but several, and they're all fun - with a nice blend of Blaster
and Tank feel to them.


Finally, when "Indestructible" is the playstyle choice of the day, I have:

E> SS/WP Brute - This boy has ALL the goodies, and when I want to mindlessly
embrace The SMASH regardless of what the target is, he's a seriously fun choice.

F> Fire/Ice Tank - My original "indestructible" toon. Due for a respec these days, he
can still safely tank things like Lusca and Kronos Titan and such with impunity.


All of these still get played regularly, no matter how many other alts I dabble
with.

As for how Uber they are, well that depends a lot on definition. A,B and E can
solo Pylons. E and F are virtually indestructible in most cases, C does just fine
against other players, and D is a pretty good blend between A-B & E-F depending
on whether he's in Nova or Dwarf.

They're definitely uber enough for my tastes.


Regards,
4

The are several reasons as mentioned.

That's not to say other approaches don't work, but folks get used to seeing
many of the same people in iTrials on a particular server and get used to doing
things certain ways, mostly because they work.

The most common reasons I'm aware of:

A> Even now, there are a lot of new 50's that don't know what nades are for,
or how to use them - giving them away lessens the learning curve until they're
ready (or interested) in using them. It lets newbies focus on what they *can*
do (I know the first few times I ran trials it was overwhelmingly confusing - being
able to simply "Just shoot the AV" helped until I understood things better) while
still ensuring things go smoothly.

B> Some AT's don't want to get *that* close to Marauder - particularly squishies.
Doubly so when there are tanks, brutes, scrappers etc. who are quite happy
to get in his face and would likelier make better use of the nades.

C> Wasting nades -- I've run a lot of these trials, and I was unaware you can't do
that anymore -- I suspect I'm not the only one that didn't realize that's been changed.

D> Ignorance/Obstinance -- I was on a failed Lambda (only 8 ppl) just last week
because at least one of those folks had nades that were never used...

We ran out of time on Marauder as a direct result.

It's an old adage that some people simply cannot, or will not follow directions.


It's certainly not a big deal, and in most cases, the trial will still succeed regardless,
with a big enough team, but personally, I always ask if anyone wants any nades I
have (I'll use acids myself) unless I'm on my Brute. YMMV.


Regards,
4

Like Fulmens, I haven't given this too much thought recently. That said, your
your choices are fairly finite assuming you're just looking for cash.

A> Exchange them for 1 Premium PvP or Purple - probably worth ~400M these days.
The is quite likely the least profitable option, although it's certainly the easiest in
terms of least effort required (given that you already earned the merits).

B> Exhange them for 10 converters each day (20 hr cooldown iirc). You'd eventually
get 350 converters and you could convert them into (a dozen or so?) PvP or Purples.
This is probably the most lucrative, but don't forget that RNG is involved, you also
need starting IOs (purple or PVP), none of which are cheap these days (typcially
around 50-150M), so you'd likely net ~200M per conversion (depending...).

C> Exchange your merits for 1 & 2 merit recipes (ie. LotG, Numina, etc). Crafted,
those sell for 50-100M each for 17 (or more IO's). There's also a 20hr cooldown
on this as well.

Which to do would depend on how much effort you want to put in, how much
you care about RNG, and whether you want to squeeze every last inf out of those
merits.


Regards,
4

I'd love to see a QoL/Bug Fix issue that focuses on correcting all (or as many
as possible) of the many, many irritants and inconsistencies in the game.

I'd also love to have them take a crack at graphics/network lag and comm optimisations
as well.

I'm not in any way adverse to new content, new missions, etc. but not a single
play session goes by without me running into bugs that are both needless, and
annoying.

That said, I'm probably more sensitized to this stuff than most, but I'd be all
for one significant issue release that focussed on fixing it.

/signed.


Regards,
4

First, to answer the original question:

Until recently, I still ran my Stalker in SC a couple times a week.

These days, there's simply too many other things to do, most of which are:

A> More rewarding to my characters
B> Generally more fun to be a part of.

As a result of those, I haven't even logged in my main PvP toon, let alone played him
in quite some time.


As for PvP in this game, there's no short answer or solution to the problem(s).

That said, I'll ramble on about what I think its problems are, and maybe even
toss out an alternative or two for consideration (Not that it'll matter imho).
But, heck, I'm at work, and this topic is more interesting...

First, PvP is *hard* to get right - there are a LOT of games that didn't, and
comparatively few that have.

In CoH, there are 3 main reasons (imho) why PvP is an utter, abject failure.

1> Player Mindset

The entire rationale for PvP in the first place is that AI is *dumb* - really dumb.
So, the idea is to challenge ourselves against real, thinking, creative people.
Conceptually, an excellent idea.

The problem? By very definition, players need to be *competitive* - just as they
would be in boxing, or tennis, or auto-racing, or chess or *any* other endeavour
where humans face off against other humans with a distinct winner/loser outcome.

Unfortunately, for PvP here, CoH is a clear cut Good Guy/Bad Guy game based
on comics (a stylized reality where Bad Guys are always redeemable, nobody
truly suffers for the most part, and honor and chivalry are generally much more the
norm than RL). The *real* Bad Guys are just NPC's designed to be defeated.

So, I think a lot of folks here tend to perceive their toons in that context, and/or
aren't that competitive, and/or really don't like having their pedestalled, world-saving
Good-Guy, behave like a vicious killer (or be Bantha PooDoo either)...

Yet, within the game's rules, that's the exact approach that *effective* PvPers
rely on to be "successful" - whatever it takes to get the kill. Like most other
competitive ventures, PvP IS all about the W. In itself, that's not a bad thing.

Still, because it IS competitive, it comes with all the attendant attitude (just
like NHL playoffs, NFL Super Bowl, NASCAR auto racing etc.) where you have
intensely competitive people doing anything they can to win.

Additionally, there is no real facility for "Pop Warner, sportsmanship PvP" for the
casual or beginner player - they wander straight into the cutthroat "pro areas"
by default -- The result is hardly surprising.

2> Learning Curve, Power Behaviour

Point #1 notwithstanding, we DO have competitive players in our game - witness
Pylon/AV/GM killers, RWZ challenges, Speed TF's, and any other number of activities
that stress skill, speed, teamwork, and overall competence needed to excel.

Unfortunately, few (if any) of the skill things toons can do in PvE even work
in PvP. In I3/I4 days, there was a lot less discrepancy in the way powers behaved
in either enviroment. I-13 virtually removed *any* performance similarity for a
toon in PvE and PvP. The behaviours are completely (and radically) different.

Given minimal meaningful rewards, a viciously competitive group of expert killers,
and no simple way to learn the ropes except get repeatedly farmed, why bother
to learn all the changes, or even deal with it at all, when the stuff you DO know
works well in PvE and rewards your toon handsomely (without any derision or
embarassment) for doing it?

In short, a lot of folks don't bother. There's no payoff or value for the effort,
but a lot of "pain" for attempting it.

3> Mechanics and Devs

It's well known that the original devs always *wanted* PvP in the game, but
unfortunately, that desire didn't carryover to the game's engine design.

By the time they actually got around to tacking PvP on, there were any number
of issues that were fine in PvE, but seriously borked in PvP (mezzes, for instance).

Basically, there was little (if any) understanding of how to actually *implement* a
balanced PvP system, by the time they got around to actually making one.

Very quickly they were jolted by the reality that existing PvE powers had some
very unbalancing RPS effects when used in the PvP enviroment. Some, they
could try and compensate for by changing how they worked, and some are
just plain problematic based on how the game was designed (with little PvP
forethought).

Compounding that issue was I-13, which was, quite simply, an abysmal implementation,
by a few pvp-clueless, arrogant people, who were adamantly certain that they
knew how PvP *should* work better than the players (in their minds).

To that end, they deliberately snubbed any advice from a player community
of active PvPers who were experts in the mechanics, and were willingly trying to
help the devs improve the product - only to be basically told "stfu - we don't care
what you think, *this* is how we're doing it, whether you like it or not".

Surprise, surprise - it was a complete disaster...


Those are the issues and the history (in my highly-opinionated view)




So, can it be fixed?

Honestly, like bases currently - No. It's a mess and is probably best left alone
at this stage in the game's life cycle.

That said, if they actually *want* PvP in the game, I'd look at a few ideas for a
*new* implementation.

1> Separate PvP from PvE - totally. We have years of history that conclusively
shows they *don't* mix well in this particular game.

So, make one PvP server - that's what it does *exclusively* and non-pvpers
can stay away... Any rewards in this system should be purely PvP focussed
as should be any content.

2> Make a small set of simplified ATs' with simplified powersets that *only*
exist on the PvP server - cover the key roles, and Balance Them against each other.

Solicit, and seriously consider, input regarding these AT's, powers and capabilities
from active/interested PvP players...

Quite simply, the current PvE ATs are *impossible* to balance and always will be -
there are just too many combinations and permutations to even try it.

In this way, you get a manageable group of balanceable characters, while still providing
some of the choices that make the AT's fun, and you don't have to risk having
Little Johnny's uber multi-billion Fire/Ice tank build get squashed like a bug because
that combination is completely worthless in PvP as it is today, despite Johnny
having played it for 1200 hours in every PvE setting imaginable.

Make these AT's immediately available at L50, with standardized enhancements
available to one and all at creation time and you're set.

The learning curve is easier, any differences between PvE and PvP are clear and
you mitigate the attachment we have for our long-played PvE toons who get
pwned in today's PvP environment.

Now, you're on a simple, level, playing field, just like the successful FPS's

Done right, you'll rebuild the PvP playerbase. Done well, you might even create
an enviroment that will entice some PvE folks to dabble in occasionally (see next point).

3> Cater to *levels* of skill. There should be simple areas (duly restricted
with some form of relative rating) for casual players, Advanced, and Elites.

A casual PvPer should be able to go into an area based on relative rating and
have a fun time that is still competitive (rather than overwhelming).

This occurs in most other sports as well: I can play some competitive tennis
(at my own level) without having to face Roger Federer, or play some casual
hockey without getting pounded by Zdeno Chara. I can race karts at the local
track without facing Jeff Gordon, etc.

Why can I NOT do this in PvP? In short, I should...



Clearly the current PvP system cannot handle *any* of these things well and, imho,
is a complete write-off.

TBH, I question whether PvP is wanted or even desirable at all in the game (maybe
a survey?) at this stage, but if it is, I certainly think it would be better, faster,
and more economical to start over from scratch than try to salvage the mess that
is our current PvP system.

Maybe some of the ideas I listed would help. Maybe not.


Regards,
4


PS> Sorry for the length of the post, but imho, PvP is a pretty complex deal, and
if it's worth the time to do at all, it's worth the time to do it properly.

Thanks for your time.

One other point to note.

In I-23 Beta, there are new ATO's being tested.

So, while the Catalyst's aren't currently tradeable (I don't disagree with the
folks who think they should be), you'll still have potential use for them soonish,
when the new ATO sets are released.


Regards,
4

Granny has a couple billion she can contribute.


4

And, since we've heard from human only, and tri-formers, I'll throw in the bi-form
mindset (mostly from a solo perspective I might add).

First, and this is sacrilege I know, I don't even *have* Light Form in my build.

That's not to disagree with anything anyone has said about it, it's just a nod
to when LF was changed. I never bothered to work out a build with it at that
point as I simply didn't need it (Didn't take it in the past due to its crash).

I agree that IO's and Global recharge are *very* desirable even without LF.

You don't need Big $ purples, but you'll definitely want/need set bonuses (esp.
recharge and ranged def) as a bi-form. Ranged Defense is very helpful for fighting
in Nova form (much less damage, fewer mezzes, and easier Void kills, since they'll
often miss their first shot - by which time, they're dead).

You don't need anywhere near as much Recharge as you would for a perma LF
build, but you'll need enough to make Dwarf's attack chain and heal viable.

As a bi-form, I use human form *only* for general travel (more on that in a sec),
and buffs (both pre- and post-combat). You'll want the various buffs except
the shields - personally, I don't take Quantum Flight either.

I highly advocate stealth capability, because it let's you assess the battle, buff up
(Essence Boost, Hasten, Inner Light-Build-Up etc.) and get first shot surprise.
Usually, most (if not all) the minions are down and out after Detonation and Scatter.
A couple quick single target shots ensure it if they aren't. That usually leaves a
damaged Boss and a crippled Lt. or two to deal with at that stage while you're probably
still untouched - a pretty straight-forward fight to win.

Post combat, human form let's you fully recover from the fight right away should
you need to.

I'm a big fan of human form travel with Invisibility from the Stealth pool. You are
at capped stealth, with no travel penalty, and you can still use most of your self
buffs in that mode (one irritant - you can't open an Ouros Portal with Invis on).

Also handy is the fact that as soon as you switch to Nova, Invisibility automatically
shuts off, so you're buffed up, ready to go, and can attack right away.

Nova Detonation is a great opener due to the KB - most of the mobs are knocked
on their keester and can't alpha you while still being in range (due to your stealthy
approach) of your Scatter and ST attacks.

I tend to take Grant Invisibility instead of Stealth, so I can hide the Village Idiots
(Photon Seekers) for a super surprise attack They're typically up every other
fight or so, and while they're dumb as a post, with capped stealth, I can drag
them right into the fight as part of the opening attack - it works well.

Dwarf is my immediate fallback when: A> I get mezzed at all B> I've taken 1/2
my HP in dmg in Nova form C> a nasty Boss target(s) left to deal with

It's slower, but it's darn near indestructible, has nearly as much dmg resist as LF,
and comes with an escape button (tp) if things *really* go south.

As a bi-form, you can nicely (or fully) slot all your Nova and Dwarf attacks,
and still have enough slots to enhance your human buffs significantly.

Unlike Dech's MF-shade, you're not all forms at once (you don't want to be in
human unless the fight is over or yet to begin), but you do want the mindset
of flipping between Nova and Dwarf when it suits the circumstances.

Played that way, a Bi-Form PB is a very effective Blaster/Tanker blend if you
enjoy that sort of playstyle.


Regards,
4

From: Operational Security Team 42
To: Facilities & Maintenance

Due to recent policy updates, and a few "displaced" security personnel, we have
increased our vigilance with regard to unauthorized wildlife, glowing or actively
burning visitors, person or persons exuding noxious vapors, and have also briefed
the team regarding possible actions to take towards potential visitors encased in ice.

As a result of this increased awareness, it has come to our attention that many
of the automatic doors within our facility appear to be opening and closing
intermittently at seemingly random intervals.

Closer investigation has not detected any intrusions by any of the above-mentioned
unauthorized visitors, or tampering of any kind.

As you can imagine, repeatedly checking these doors is a time-intensive and
counter-productive use of team member's duty time.

We are formally requesting maintenance personnel to verify and certify the
functioning of all automatic doors within the facility as the frequent openings
and closings are distracting the security team from performing their designated
patrols with appropriate levels of efficiency.


Regards,
Team Lead,
OpSec Team 42

As with a lot of things, I think it depends a lot on the player's perspective.

There are only two motivations to convert anything: A: To slot something you want
(either now, or for a future toon), or, B: Raise the profit value of an undesirable
IO.

In the case of A, the relative economics are substantially reduced. In fact,
odds are good that it definitely won't be the most economical approach, but
clearly, convenience and expediency are trumping economics here.

A perfect, similar idea: How many of us have thrown an A/V merit at an IO
(20-40M range) you wanted now, that was in short supply on the market?

I sure have - several times.

Clearly, that was poor economic use of the merit, inf-wise, but excellent use
of a renewable resource to obtain an otherwise unavailable item.

Additionally, converter cost factors in as well. In my case, the bulk of my converters
have been drops (I've not exchanged any merits for any yet), so for me, they've
been free by-products of whatever I was doing anyway.

I think mechanically it is also easier (slightly) to convert rather than craft, especially if
you already have the initial IO's on hand. If you have to buy them from the market
though, I doubt it saves you much of anything at that point.


Regards,
4