Fire_Minded
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:I totally get where your comming from.My veiw is a little narrower then yours, but only in my view for my Themes.Originally Posted by RadDidIt
Though my Vanguard concepts are a little more flexible than yours, I'll tell you, anyway.
I have a personal SG of about... hmmm... 15 characters? The SG is called "Vanguard Herald" and thematically represents various negotiators and security forces (the Herald would probably handle it's own security except for the most important of meetings).
The line-up goes something like this (these are the 50's, at least):
Captain Redford: BS/WP Scrapper, wears full purple/black Vanguard armor. Second in command behind Incandescence. Hostile negotiations master.
Major Gameli: Dark/Cold Defender, full purple/black Vanguard armor, minus the face. Voudon spirit who is on his last reincarnation. Specializes in "filibuster" type arguments (he has a lot of patience).
Lt. Bauman: Elec/Elec/Munitions Blaster, full gray/purple Vanguard armor. Simply a mutant who excels in security and hostage situations.
Lt. Reims: Fire/Mental/Elec Blaster, full gray/purple Vanguard armor. A powerful and idealistic pyrokinetic who also wears an electric chassis to fortify his defense. Extreme specialization in defense and security.
Hologram Girl: Illusion/Rad/Power, full purple/black Vanguard armor. A weak photokinetic who had her powers boosted by the Vanguard. Works exclusively with them and offers security, distractions, and cover fire.
The point of all this was, of course, to show that you don't need a specific powerset to be validated as a Vanguard member. That is their point! Though, the BS/WP would be "more generic," the common soldier in Vanguard is not super-powered, hence the Impervium armor to... ya know... save their lives. You can be both a hero/villain AND a Vanguard loyalist (I know I am).
I just like to see the Human side of the Vanguard is all.While it is easly anyones group to join.Mage, Mutant, Ect, I Like having the feel of being a well trained Human agenst tough odds is all.
I rather like my Claws/Invln Scrapper thats part of the Vanguard Sword Theme.Mainly because his powers incorpirate the thematic use of his Impervium Armor and Laser Claws as a excuse to show how those pieces of equipment are his power because he was trained to use them.While being only Human, this brings a Vanguard dynamic that I enjoy.
He isnt without a back story in any respect either.He joined the Vanguard because he tried to protect his wife and children from them a Ritki Raid, and he was DOA when he arrived at the hospital.Through a dedicated Medical Staff he was revived.His wife was not so lucky and his children are missing and presumed abducted by the Ritki.
Angered and outraged at being helpless at protecting his family.He hears about the Vanguard's fight agenst the Ritki.He finds a recruiter and jumps at the chance to be trained as a Soldier in hopes that he will find his children some day.
So you see, its not unlike your self.I just perfer a Human feel to mine is all.Thats why im basing the powers on Technology and Natural ability. -
Quote:I acctually liked the Red color a bit my self because it went along with my name and my avatar.However most people seeing that red line of boxes tend to treat you like crap automatically.So I dissabled it.Originally Posted by magikwand
Off topic: Not that I was going to neg rep you, but I can't help but notice you have disabled your reputation all of a sudden... why? I liked seeing the glowing string of red beneath your name.
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Being a Artist I have the unique capability to make a concept around anything this game has to offer.
Im pretty sure im the not the only one capable of this.
I commonly dont play all the time.However when I make a new character.I will sit there for a hour or two.Sometimes more playing back and forth with ATs, Power Sets, Costumes, ect.
Then when Im finally done making a costume to match the image im wrapping around the build.The hard part begins.
Naming the Character.
Sometimes even the name can have me going back to redo some of the finer points of a costume before I finally create it.
I find the capability this game gives to make a image connected to the powers a 9 out of 10.They would get a 10 if they went the extra mile to give players more costume options.
The options I speak of are Quivers for Archers.Customizable Jet Packs for those that want to use Technology to fly around instead of magic or some mutation to fly around.Yes I know there are rocket boots, but adding those to a jet pack would be bonus coolness either way.
Giving us the option to carry our weapons in our hand as a toggle would be cool.No matter what they are in a standing or walking as well as sprinting possition.Id like to see my axe, sword, gun, or bow without looking like im ready to use it by crouching forward.Just to have it dissapear when I relax.
People in a Costume Contest wouldnt have to ask if they can have there weapons out while being judged for overall costume.Normally that answer is No Weapons by many Judges.
Anyhow.That how I do it. -
Quote:Considering all 3 of the things you just named off are exactly the strengths of Willpower.They all work in concert with one another to make you rather tough.Originally Posted by Lucky666
I've never rolled a willpower before and decide it was time so I went claws/willpower anyway. What types of bonuses to people shoot for I was wondering? Willpower seems like a mix of everything.
Should i go for regen or more HP maybe, not to sure maybe some def? What seems to be the consesus when building willpower toons and what set bonuses to shoot for and in what order?
Thanks to anyone with any answers.
I wouldnt just focus on those 3 by the way.There is still Damage Resistance.So theres 4 things to work on.Taking slightly less damage helps the other 3 do there jobs even better.Especially the Regen portion of the set. -
Ok, iv been stepping up and building diffrent types of Tankers.Such as SD/Axe, Ice/Ice, ect.
Im looking at Rock Armor and wondering about something I dont commonly see people doing with that set.
I watch people making a Rock Armor Tanker and the moment they get Granite Armor they either go and make there second build with Stone Skin, Granite Armor, Rooted, and very rarely Mud Pots.They dont commonly take anything else in that set at that point.
Not once have I seen a Dual Built Stone Armor Tanker.Meaning I havnt seen anyone take the other toggle armor powers on this Tanker and Use Granite Armor only when it is needed.
I have been juggling the idea of a Stone Tanker.Not sure on the Melee Set, but I intend on taking all the Armor Toggles and keeping them even after I get Granite Armor.Mainly because I want a Offensive Mode for the Tanker instead of the horribly sluggish Granite only builds that I always see.
The Regen from Rooted as well as the Slow from Mud Pots and the armor toggles them selves dont seem any weaker to me then many other Armor Sets.
Does anyone do what im suggjesting on a Stone Tank build? -
Quote:My suggjestion is Electrical Armor or Dark Armor if you want those asspects on a Tank.Both can pay off huge with IOs in the end and have very few issues at all just using SOs.Originally Posted by Psiko
So I need to make a tanker seeing as I've gone ahead and rolled literally everything else, and i'm looking for one that's challenging to play, fun and with interesting tools at it's disposal - but is not gimped, nerfed, or under-achieving on the tanking front, I want it to be versatile but capable etc, and so I've appealed to the forumites! Gimme gimme gimme!
My only reservation is that it's NOT invuln, fire or WP. They bore me to pieces
As for the Melee aspect.That one ill leave to you or the avdisment of someone else. -
Thats asking for a long list from me.
Here we go.
Defenders :
Fire Blasts
Thermal Radiation
Devices
Blasters :
Claws
Martial Arts
Katana
Stone Melee
Controllers :
Poison
Tankers :
Broad Sword
Regen
Energy Aura
Corruptors :
Devices
Psi Blasts - Dorked up Blaster version is more likly then Defender version.
Empathy
Scrappers :
Super Strength
Brutes :
Spines
Regen
Masterminds :
Empathy
Thats all I can think of for the moment. -
Quote:The fact that I could use Ice Storm would help close a large gap between the Ice Tank and the FM/Regen Scrapper you already have.It might possibly match your AoE.If just barly get close to the numbers mainly due to Fireball having a lower damage rating then Ice Storm.Which if im correct does double the base damage vs Fireball.I may be wrong about this entirly.Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I was actually going to use a Fire/Regen for the test. It has a nice mix of single target and AoE. And you can go ahead and use Ice Storm, I was going to use Fireball so it's only fair. I consider the whole build, not just primary and secondary, if you want to use Air Superiority in you attack chain, go for it (can't see why you'd want to in this case, but not breaking a rule)
Edit: I didn't choose Fire/Regen in any attempt to weigh the outcome in my favor, I chose it because I already have one.
Also: I almost never use Mid's while I'm actually leveling a character, I use it for a final build or as a sort of scratch pad to figure out what direction I'm going with it. Why use a piece of paper when there's a program that already has all the information in it?
Im still going to lose.However if I took my Fire Tanker for a fun filled run.I might be capable of keeping up with your Scrappers pace.Crits alone will make it jump ahead reguardless of my Tanker builds damage in any case.
My whole deal is that I perfer dealing with a Melee Build that doesnt rely on Crits or Fury.It gives me more perdictability for my Melee characters in the long run.
It allows me to know that im going to kill whatever in a X amount of hits and thats cormforting to me.
Now im curious to see how a SD/SS Tanker can stand upto the damge of a Fire/Fire for that matter.Ill see about that test after I post footage on my triple Ice Tanker over time.I unfortunatly dont have the ability to be online alot due to a Sattalite Link and Life comming up.However ill do what I can.
Side Note : Im certain a SD/SS Tank can out damage my SD/Axe Tank, but itll be fun watching them both go!
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Quote:Im the one that did and it was disscounted by everyone including your self and Bill.Originally Posted by Silas
People don't compare an AoE Tanker build to a ST Scrapper build (or vice versa) because its meaningless to do so.
Learn 2 READ! -
Quote:HmmmmOriginally Posted by StrykerX
I have an Archery / Energy Blaster that I use a lot of Vanguard costume pieces on (I love the Vanguard bow) and it's a very fun character. I go with hover blasting (via Rocket Boots) and using perma-Boost Range and pretty much ignore the Energy melee attacks.
Non-Hero / AV level Vanguard NPCs generally use guns, claws, or (in the case of the magicians) ice and electric blasts. They also have grenades and such that aren't available in a player power set. The closest I can think of would be:
Assault Rifle / Devices Blaster or Assault Rifle / Traps Corruptor or Traps / AR Defender for a standard soldier
Ice / Electric or Electric / Ice Blaster for a magician
Claws / Invulnerability (they use Impervium armor) Scrapper or Brute for a Sword agent
Of course the whole point to Vanguard is that they accept anyone willing to fight the Rikti, so pretty much anything you can toss a Vanguard costum on works... bonus points if it has a Talsorian weapon.
One interesting idea would be a Bots / Traps Mastermind... the bots aren't "standard" Vanguard units but they're not too far off, and you can unlock a Rikti blaster... the character could be a scientist who specializes in reverse engineering Rikti technology and turning it against them.
Well I do like the Bow alot.I guess I could make a Archery/Devices Blaster.However the Stealth would pretty much defeat looking like a Vanguard.
I do enjoy the survivability my Traps/Rad Defender.So I just had a idea and Hell just froze over.
Im going to make a Archery/Traps Corruptor.
The reason why Hell just froze over is because I prefer Defenders over Corruptors.However my last run in with Defender Archery made me just totally erase the Character.Because the damage was the most horrible id ever seen on any Defender Secondaries in action.
However I may still make a Archery Blaster.I just dont wanna take Devices in favor of Dual Pistols comming up.
Maybe a Archery/Elec Melee with green colored lightning will do the trick?I wont be doing hover blasting.So the increased Range wont be a issue for me with Energy Melee.
It might be better to make a Archery/TA Corruptor and say to hell with it.Which may be more favorable so theres a lack of redraw on the Character.
UGH! -
Quote:Iv been playing the Tanker off and on.So far its not so bad.It wouldnt beat another AoE Scrapper, so its no big deal.It seems ill lose the theory.So ill concead to defeat now.Originally Posted by SterlingSteel
For the last couple of days, I've been thinking about rolling a new tank, namely because we are looking soon at a mass influx of Dual Pistol blaster/defenders. Someone's gotta keep them alive.
The plan was to roll out a Stoner, and I headed over to the boards to see if there was anything new on the subject. Then I found this thread.
My SG has seen two ice tanks roll through in two years. Both complained about endurance, 50 toggles, etc. A couple of times, some of our elite tank players have fiddled with the concept of rolling a Ice tank, only to say, "to hell with this".
Fire_Minded's post has inspired me. Not necessarily to prove him right or wrong, but just to see if I can have fun designing a damage-minded tank (yes, I have only played the "hit me in the face 100 times tank) built around Ice Armor. I'll roll it out this week and see where it takes me.
However im gladdly sticking it out with this Tanker because its fun to play for me.Ill be more then happy to take the Ice Epic and use Ice Storm to up the damage over all for the build as well.I plan on foregoing IO Soft-Capping this Tanker as well for a few reasons.
I can almost Soft-Cap with SOs using the Absorb AoE in the Armor Set.So Its going to be mostly Recharge, Damage Procs, and Recovery that ill be slapping into this build.
With any luck i'll have enough Recharge to use my Hoarfrost up as a Heal like I do with FA builds, and have the capability to repeatedly fire off Frost, Ice Storm, and Frozen Aura.If its possible to get these to go off alot faster would cause the DPS to drop a entire mob all at once wont be a issue at all.
I also dont see how ST damage will be any issue for Bosses either because of some quick animating powers and massive amounts of Global Recharge.
This is my hope of coarse.But this is what ill be striving for.
If I can slot it correctly when it comes time for IOs it may become more then powerful at dealing damage then it ever could be with SOs.Mainly because it doesnt have to focus on Soft-Capping like other builds.
Stick with it.I have a feeling the Pay off with IOs on this Ice Tank could be BIG. -
Quote:Well if you use the same exact sets then yes the Scrapper will always win.However that wasnt the prior statement.I mentioned a AoE Tank Build vs a ST Scrapper build.Originally Posted by Tonality
It's only fair that you compare AoE builds with AoE builds. I would argue that the elec/sd/blaze scrapper is most capable melee build for AoE in the game. If not, it's Fire/SD/Blaze.
You can, but you also need to discard any comparison between AoE and Single-Target Builds. Compare like-builds. As in, a /Dark Melee Tank vs. a Dark Melee/ scrapper at the speed of soloing AV's. Or fire/fires on both sides. Or a fire/sd vs. a sd/fire.
Otherwise, it's very easy to pick circumstances that will give you the outcome you desire. For example, I bet a SD/SS tank can provide more AoE damage than a DM/SR scrapper. But that same DM/SR scrapper will drop the AV a LOT quicker than that tank.
This is a minor argument. I'll graze over this. I IO my characters out by level 35. It's actually cheaper than SOs in the long run, and I get better performance. You just have to know where the cheap junk is you can use.
It's useful to note that with just SO's at mid-level a tray full of lucks solves the survival problems of a SD scrapper. Pop a single luck and you're good to go.
It's about platforms, and scrappers are a good balance of survivability and damage. I can handle being squishier than a tank. Some players haven't figured out how yet. I can do this on SO builds as well.
I've done it pre-set IOs. Once you hit 37, you're golden. Smart inspiration use solves this issue. They drop like candy.
Oddly enough, candy doesn't seem to drop like candy. Where's my candy?
Well, Bill Z, already provided some numbers. But I'm going to compare Fire/Fire on both tanks and scrappers. I will not include crit - only base numbers.
When you consider your damage buffs on both AT's, they aren't going to be perma. I'm going to be generous and throw 200% global recharge at them both, which means you get a 33% uptime on your two powers (multiply your damage buffs by 33%).
Therefore:
Tanker:
-Fiery Embrace: 33% (100 *.33)
-Buildup: 26.4% (80 * .33)
Scrapper:
-Fiery Embrace: 41.25% (125 * .33)
-Buildup: 33% (100 *.33)
Notice that scrappers get more benefit from +DMG powers. This widens the gap.
Now, let's consider 95% enhancement with 3 slotted dmg SOs, or the equivalent from IOs. We'll also use identical chains. For the sake of ease of calculation, I'm counting the DoT as well. I'll also consider the lethal dmg also fire, so I don't have to work too hard in calculating the different damage buff of lethal dmg in fiery embrace.
Tank:
-Incinerate: 111.2 * (1 + .95 + .33 + .264) = 282.8928
-GFS: 144.1 * (1 + .95 + .33 + .264) = 366.5904
-Scorch: 48 * (1 + .95 + .33 + .264) = 122.112
-FS: 73 * (1 + .95 + .33 + .264) = 185.712
Scrapper
-Incinerate: 172 * (1 +.95 + .4125 + .33) = 463.11
-GFS: 207 * (1 +.95 + .4125 + .33) = 557.3475
-Scorch: 72.8 * (1 +.95 + .4125 + .33) = 196.014
-FS: 110.9 * (1 +.95 + .4125 + .33) = 298.59825
As you see the numbers, higher base values benefit a LOT more from +DMG.
So to compare, I'm going to take the tanker value and divide that by the scrapper value for each attack to indicate what percent of damage you are dealing compared to a scrapper in the similar situation.
-Incinerate: 61.09%
-GFS: 65.77%
-Scorch: 62.30%
-FS: 62.19%
Well, you're dealing about 60-65% of a scrapper. On a grade-point scale, that's a D, or failing.
Or, to put it even clearer, a scrapper using incinerate is 163.70% better.
Oh, and your damage auras:
Tank BA: 9.79 * (1 + .95 + .33 + .264) = 24.90576
Scrap BA: 13.8 * (1 +.95 + .4125 + .33) = 37.1565
Now, I'm going to calculate the max AoE DPS of both auras. So I divide it by two, because it pulses every ten seconds. Then I multiply them both by ten for hitting the max number of mobs.
Tank BA Saturated AoE DPS: 124.5288
Scrapper BA Saturated AoE DPS: 185.7825
The difference is a scrapper is dealing 150% more damage every second with just an aura.
That's enough math for me tonight.
So all the sudden im the bad guy by a few forum goers by saying anything like that.Matter of fact me saying anything reguardless of the subject gets thrown in a opposite direction and someone throws facts contrary to the statement I made in the first place.
Bill Z Bubba still after his onslaught of being a jerk decided that not only believe I was insulting Scrappers but he decided to compair like builds to make him self on the winning side of a argument.Not to mention I did make mention that a Tanker cant beat a Scrappers Crit still decided to use that as a point at out damaging a Tanker.When it was mentioned that Crits wernt the focus of my Statement to begin with.
Now when I say near none Crit Scrapper Damage.Bill more then proved my point by showing math of 1578 on the Tanker I talked about vs 1754 that he put a Crit calculation in was the basis of that statement on a ST attack chain of a single BU without Damage Aura build.I was saying you can out damage was the factor of AoE Damage vs ST damage between the ATs.
Those Numbers look pretty freaking close to me.Maybe some of you need to look up the word "CLOSE" in the Dictonary.
Can a Kat/SR Build Out damage a Fire/Fire Tanker agenst a large mob?The answer is 110%, Absolutly Not!
Can a Kat/SR Build outdamage a Fire/Fire Tanker agesnt a Single Target?I dont know.I havnt played Katana much.
That was the attempted statement I made way before this got out of hand.By saying my Fire Tank could out damage a ST Scrapper.If I conveyed it wrong then I apologize.
People tell me I need to learn to read and deal with Grammar.I find that funny because alot of people wont even read half of what I write, and half of those people dont even comprihend it. -
Quote:So the Words "Almost Matching Scrapper Damage Before Crit" isnt understood by you huh?Id say training behind by 400 damage is pretty close.As well is 310ish damage diffrence between a Fire/Fire vs a FM/SR build.Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
You're only digging yourself deeper.
Tanker numbers don't change.
Tank using your chain:
391.49 * (1+.8+1+.95)) = 1468.0875
The ONLY change to the scrapper is the removal of fiery embrace (125%) to be replaced with the buff from AAO with one enemy, the AV, in range (12.5%)
It's a HUGE difference? Who's gonna win?!?!? Oh my gosh I know what my gut is telling me after pouring over numbers for this game for the past five years... could I still be right?
Scrapper using your chain: (Changing FE's 1.125 to AAO's .125
540.54 * (1+1+.125+.95) = 1662.1605
After 10% crit rate for AVs = 1828.37655
The scrapper does 400 more points of damage PER attack chain than the tank.
Hell, make it Fiery Melee/Super Reflexes. No buff at all from the secondary. 1754.0523. Still beats your tank.
Tank damage does not compare to scrapper/brute damage. At all. Ever.
Read the next Paragraph carefully Bill Z Bubba.
You still have yet to figure in the damage from Blazing Aura from the FA set for the Tanker.Im going to bet that its going to help close the gap even more with your attack chain math making it "almost" the same damage before Crit.
OHH SNAP!Did I just make sense?
I say again.A Tanker "can" match a Scrapper in Damage unless it crits.
How do you like them apples?
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Quote:Well the Fire/Fire Tanker vs a FM/SD Scrapper is a seprate issue.The fact remains that before Crits that Tanker build can get close to Scrapper numbers.Originally Posted by Ice_Ember
Ice melee on a tank is horrible for single target attacks. If a scrapper cant out damage an ice melee tank, than the scrapper has a horrid build. Ice melee does have nice AoE now that Frozen Aura has the same damage as Foot Stomp... but all cold. Frost is also nice, even though it is DoT.
Fire melee for tanks is great, with FSC being the best AoE. Couple that with Combustion, which some hate, but I find it as a nice AoE attack.
Shield/Fire does massive damage. (More than Fire/Fire) It does not do more damage than a Fire/shield scrapper. The tank has more AoE potential with combustion, but the scrapper has higher damage from each attack.
Ill say it Again just in case anyone ignored me.
Tankers can do close to Scrapper damage but they cant compete with a Scrappers Crit.Period.
Now im not totally concerned with the Numbers a Ice Tanker may be lacking because iv been surprised by builds that have low numbers before.So this is more of a test on a Theory then anything else.
Iv also stated before that ill still get a high level Ice Tank out of the deal.So its a win win either way for me.
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Yeh.Iv noted that Power Boost negates the need for the Medicine Pool on my Earth/Earth Dominator as well.
So I agree that if you need that pool your doing something wrong. -
Lord knows im going to get Neg Rep'd for these suggjesstions, but lets get it over with.
If you want a "Tough" Scrapper build.I may have a few that iv experimented with that acctually fit that bill.
The following Suggjestions are :
Claws/Invln
Elec/Elec
Claws/FA
Claws/Elec
Spines/Elec
Spines/FA
Spines/Invln
Spines/WP
Claws/WP
Broad/WP
MA/WP
All of these are Tough Scrappers.
I wouldnt suggjest these builds if they didnt have a toughness to them. -
Quote:Well, in the mean time ill be off and on leveling up the Ice Tanker.I havnt given any garantee on the acctual power of this build but im curious to see how far I can take it without IOs.Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Only one problem with that.
Single target scrapper was never specified in the original claim. You simply said "a scrapper".
Otherwise I agree that it is a fair test.
I'm thinking a timed defeat all in AE using the often farmed city block map. For enemy type I suggest Council, as I don't think they have any particular resistances or weaknesses. If I'm wrong and anyone knows of an enemy type that fits that description feel free to correct.
A setting of +1/x4 w/bosses would be fair, as it would require both good AoE output and good single target output.
RWZ Challenge isn't a very fair test between a scrapper and a tank. Any scrapper that can pull it off reliably is IOed to the gills and beyond, and while a tank can survive it fairly reliably, his killing speed will be very low compared to a scrapper that can even do it. There's a reason the RWZ Challenge is considered an accomplishment of a good build.
Also, using a Levantera mission as a timer won't work either, there's no guarantee you will find an acceptable mob right away, and it's too easily skewed.
From what im seeing in my mind it seems like a decent damage build, and if I play my cards right it'll do better then I belive it can.I wish I could add Ice Storm to the Mix for its AoE, but that wouldnt be considered part of the base build.Neither would any Vet powers.
I personally have never seen alot of builds iv been making latly, and most all of them surprisingly match many common builds if not excell in areas that many other builds dont.
Iv made alot of claims and people want to know why im being negative and grouchy when I post.Maybe if youd find out what im speaking is the truth or not by Playing what I play, and stop neg repping me like its required after thumbing through my posts, I might be a bit nicer, watch how I use my Grammer, and not Troll agenst some of you so much.
The following Statement IS NOT a attack agenst the Mid's Program.
If you really want to call me out, go play the game and build a entire character WITHOUT MID's.On sets you say are horrible.Im not suggjessting that you pick a Build that you know will suck horribly like a RM/DA Brute (Lord knows I agree on that one sucking.), but pick something I play, or have posted about and give it a fair chance before you talk trash.
I do math in my head before I choose a Build.No pen and paper.No Mid's program.I just make it after a fair assessment and go.
By the way this isnt refering to you ClawsandEffect.Im a bit shigrint that my Rep was almost Neutral on its way to being in the possitive, and I got Trolled by a couple people who would rather keep me as a negative influence on the Boards.
I was down to 1 Red bar earlier, then I got Trolled.Now take a look.>.> -
If everyone would stop trying to pick a fight with everything I say on my posts, and stop neg repping me like its going out of style, I might be more apt to give a crap about my Grammar and throw proof in your faces with Video and ect.
Your all as big of ***** as I am by automatically disscounting everything I write without even reading half of what was said or even trying to understand a diffrent point of veiw might be possible past your own.
Now.Let me break something to you Chief.
The compairison was a Fire/Fire Tanker vs a Fire/SD Scrapper.So if you want to go off of a AV fight you'll have to redo some of your math for both builds.
Your SD's Damage boost in its set gives BARLY ANY Damage buffage for ONE TARGET.So you just got a failing grade.Your compairing 180% damage boost from a Dual BU Build that also has a Damage Aura going off to a Scrapper that gets a single BU and SD Damage buff for under the Tankers Amount.Not only that but it has no Damage Aura.
Redo your math.Your not adding what was being talked about in the first place Bill Z Bubba.
You guys try awefully hard to keep me in the red when im trying to be polite.That makes many of you worse then me. -
Tonality, I can certainly agree that a Elec/SD Scrapper can out damage my Tank builds.However that wasnt the compairison, and I didnt include the use of IOs in the builds at all.
In fact, I havnt IOd out any of my characters yet on this account.Im waiting for them to all hit level 50 before doing so.So im going to disscard that part of the counter argument you have given me.
If you look at base Mechanics before IOs.A SD Scrapper has far less survivability using SOs then a FA Tanker does just using SOs.You may be a expert at IOs and I may seek some advice from you in the future if I need help with IOs, but the common thing in this game is that many people if not most of the people who dont come to the boards dont bother with IOs until they have completed the level 50 trudge of there character.
The biggest missconception is that everyone uses IOs by mid career of there characters.Which simply isnt the case.
Also, just to toss it out there.Iv seen a Elec/SD none IOd Scrapper get dropped trying to Alpha a +3 Mob.Yes, he hit the group hard, but he went down after he went in with LR.
The lack of IOs doesnt make him a horrible Scrapper.Its the missconception that he will desimate a map without being IOd out for the job.
One more thing before I await your reply.
Your almost right about a ST Scrapper out damaging my Fire Tankers ST attacks.Almost.
Go look up the damages on Incinerate, Greater Fire Sword, Scorch, and Fire Sword.Then multiply them by a factor of 180% damage boost.Then go and put 3 Standard Damage SOs in all of those attacks after upping the base damages 180%.
It easly allows me to dish out nasty ST damage and many ST Scrappers cant out damage me unless they Crit.So please, go and look those numbers up.A Calculator will do just fine. -
Quote:Sorry, just being hopeful that a list is acceptable as a single wish.Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
Pst... one wish... not one wish list.
Im greedy.
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*Cracks Knuckles*
Here we go.
Broad Sword
Spines
Regen
Energy Aura
The wish that they would replace Frost (Or whatever the tier 3 Cone is in the Ice Melee Set) with Ice Sword Circle like from the Dominator Ice Assault Set.
To have the option to change Rock Melee's tier 1 power animation with the Dominators Earth Assualt tier 1 power animation, but for close range.
Make Icicles Cold Damage instead of Lethal Damage for the Ice Armor set.
Make Ice Melee's tier 1 a single punch animation.
Increase the Energy Damage vs Smashing Damage ratio with the early tier attacks of the Energy Melee Tank set.
Change the gawd awefully bulky look of the Ice Armor set.
And last but certainly not least.
Make the tier 9 for Fire Armor useful.Seriously.
That is all.
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Quote:Now that you mention it, Corruptors enter that list as well, but I dont seem to have a horrible issue with them.There Scourge seems to work predictably enough to not dislike it, but just enough to perfer Defenders.Originally Posted by magikwand
You are certainly welcome to that perspective, and I can see the validity of it. Such a change would just take away the meat and lure of brutes, however. Fury is what makes a brute a brute.
Also, I don't quite understand your analogy of brutes and tankers to defenders and blasters. Blasters have no mechanic that changes their damage in an unpredictable manner. Perhaps you meant Corruptors and Defenders?
I have 1 Corr.Its a Fire/Thermal.If Defenders had access to these sets I wouldnt be playing a Corr.Simply because Scourge doesnt exist, which to me is a unpredictable element not unlike the Brutes Fury Bar vs the Tankers lack of that bar in the same respect.
Now to address your question about Blasters.
Blasters have a damage multipler that scales there damage up for a short amount of time every time they attack or set a Device.I dont really like this Mechanic either.Im a die hard Old School Defiance Fan.
I played only Blasters before they changed Defiance.The fact of being near death garanteed jaw dropping damage, as well as your numbers on damage didnt deviate from the attack chain until you where hurt badly.So I knew what to exspect from the Old Defiance, but this new Defiance has me looking at other ATs instead of Blasters now days.
Unpredictability is why I play the ATs I do.I do have a few characters that just cant aviod being a certain AT because of the Power Sets I wanted to play in Combonation with one another.Like a Fire/Thermal Corr and a EM/EA Brute.
On another Side Note.Im enjoying Dominators now.
They made there damage Linear just how I like it.No Domination is required to get higher damage, and the numbers are consistant, and I know what to exspect when I hit my Domination Enherant.
Also, Stalkers used to Crit granteed from Hide.Now they have a Scaling Crit in a Team setting, and a base Crit across the board in PvE.This also makes me not desire to play a Stalker. -
Well, I am still having difficulties with comming up with a 2nd Vanguard.
The Assualt Rifle is a good idea, however thats the least desired out of the bunch for me.It has crossed my mind more then once.
Now I have seen pictures of the Laser Bow that you can unlock, and it does look like ill be going with Archery for the Vangaurd Theme.
Slight issue though.Since you can have the Bow with Trick Arrows, or Archery either way, it makes me wonder what would be better to fit a Vanguard as a AT and Sets?
Im wanting a Excuse to make a couple Masterminds.Could a Vanguard hire Merc's to help him out?It would allow him to unlock the Rifle from RWZ as well as the Bow if I took Trick Arrows.Doesnt sound like a horrible mix, and alot of people dont touch the Soldiers Primary and Ninjas Primary for MMs much now days.(From what iv seen looking at MM Players, not fact.)
If not a Mastermind, then maybe a TA/Archery Defender?Or maybe a Archery/Traps Corr?Or perhaps a Controller thats Mind/TA?Or a Archery/Elec Blaster that has his Elec Melee colored Green?
The possibilities are endless with this it seems.
Ok, it seems that TA or Archery, or maybe both will play a role in creating this new Vanguard.Any suggjesstions? -
Quote:If only If only.Originally Posted by Ethric
Dress up as one of Rikti, then go do the Vanguard arcs. Preferably in +4/8 difficulty.
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Quote:From where im sitting Brutes are Scrapper/Tanker Hybrids already.Originally Posted by magikwand
I know this is supposed to be one wish that you would want granted, but this is just madness.
Fury is what makes a brute a brute. If we didn't have fury, we would just be scrapper/tanker hybrids. As for the OP never experiencing fury beyond 20%- I would say you are holding back. If you don't dive into a spawn and *try* grabbing all the attention you can, you will never make the most of fury or being a brute. Picking off one mob at a time will never get your bar full up.
I never look at my fury bar. It fills up just as quickly whether you are watching it or not.
All im suggjesting is that Fury still be useful at adding damage, but to a lesser degree.I personally pick Tankers over Brutes and Scrappers because of compeltly Linear and predicatable damage.
I know how many hits its going to take a particular Tanker to kill a certain enemy after watching it happen 1-2 times.
Its also why I perfer Defenders over Blasters.I know exactly what to exspect from a Attack Chain without a blip in the performance like Brutes get with Fury.
Bottom line when it comes to my disslike of Fury, is that I perfer Predicability in my builds.Not Chaos.