FireWyvern
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:KD won't work on most of the AVs. Only when there PToD are down.Originally Posted by evil_tim
I've thought about using SM with /ela to help mitigate incoming damage through KD. SM also has some nice burst damage with SM, HM, and SS. If enough recharge could be had, I might be able to get an attack chain of SM, HM, SS, SM, HM, Tremor, repeat. Tons of knockdown with the occasional hold. Using purples would also fill the toxic hole in /ELA.
SS/INV is another way I'm thinking about, if I can mitigate the endurance somehow. Is there a SS/INV build that could fight an AV for 10-15 minutes without losing endurance?
As for SS/inv, i seriously doubt it. If you don't use rage, probably. But if you had rage and/or hasten, it starts being too much. -
Quote:Originally Posted by New Dawn
On the all Scrapper STF I tanked all the AVs and proved them all doable without defeat, just to expose how good Scrappers really are on this TF for Mo's (because I am not archetypist or powersetist).
I ofcourse was a Tanker in Scrappers clothing whilst a mate was a Trick Archer in Scrappers clothing.
Care to explain the last part? Do you mean litteraly had a Tanker and a Trick Archer... making it not "all scrapper". Or you've had a scrapper build like a tanker and one build like a TA? How do you build a scrapper like a TA? Kinda curious. =P -
Quote:I've two invuln at 50 and only one WP. (since i'm assuming it's invuln vs WP)Originally Posted by LygerZero
Look around, and dig deep for any decent discussion on Invul brutes....
It's discouraging :-/
I love invuln, specialy for it's higher peeks (and without investment). And with miracle/unique, the endurance problem become manageable.
And for PvP, it seems to be a lot liked.
(in fight club melee vs melee PvP)
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Mender Silos... the first AV is Ms Liberty right? She's one of the toughess out there. A godmode and a self-heal.
I'd suggest you try soloing easier AV first, to gage your build. Agent Indigo, Romulus, (weak)Vandal, Lord of War, Agent Crimson, Mynx, Battlemaiden, Bobcat, etc. They don't have much special tricks and are pretty straight foward.
Just put them in an AE arc, and try them out. You won't even get debts for failing.
While some insane scrapper/brute can solo 99% of the AVs, a lot of us can't kill them all, specialy on a budget build.
My DM/invuln for exemple soloed about 10 different AVs without insps or temps. I seriously doubt i'd kill Liberty, except with heavy insps use...maybe. -
Quote:There's a huge difference between "nothing is needed" and "any team can succeed".Originally Posted by Heraclea
Yes, that is fairly close to what I meant. (I doubt that a team full of controllers would "roll through" much of anything unless one was Kinetics. But they ought to be able to succeed at any task.)
I have always understood this to be a basic premise of this game's design philosophy and market strategy. No team should hit a brick wall because of the lack of a specific AT, much less a specific power set. Any mission where specific inspirations are part of the design of an encounter ought to be made available by the mission itself, the way the Eden trial works.
If these design decisions are in fact fundamental to the game, I think it follows that the STF is indeed broken.
STF have been done by an one-AT team, for each ATs (except maybe khelds) Just there, that means no power set or AT is requiered.
Nothing is needed means you don't need to have a tanker or a scrapper or controller or etc.
But that doesn't mean a team of 8 Stone/BA or 8 dark/FF should be able to complete it.
The only thing i hate in STF is the very last fight, with LR and the towers. Any other part can easily be done with a bits of deaths, strategies and insps. I've never seen a team that couldnt get to the last mission, even with STF-virgin PUG teams. -
Quote:We can already do that with SS, SM, WM and BA. =pOriginally Posted by xhris
Suspecting a ridiculously survivable set, smashing foes from a distance, while they're busy laying on their backs. Worst set for brutes since Ice?? seems like it
In the past fury had some problems, but now i'd love to have ice melee. With -rech, they at least still attack you. =P Not that i need to be attacked to have high fury. -
First, you'd have to decide "how" you want to solo them. With or withouts temps? With or without insps. Though even with both, i don't think you can solo a GM.
I'd probably try either fire, shield or elec for primary. Since they all boost damage or +rech and +end for elec.
For the secondary, it mostly depends on your budget. Warmace, EM, fire, DM and stone are all very good in ST damage. -
Quote:I really doubt it. Since it happens when there's only one enemy, the AV that can take substainned DPS without dying. And taunt is supposed to be auto-hit right?Originally Posted by Gilia
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Threat
Attacking first just means you have the threat first, it isn't relevant once other players are "noticed." Plus, Taunt is by far the biggest modifier (presumably, we don't technically know what debuff offers). If a Tanker is being out aggroed by a Blaster, his taunt probably just didn't hit the Blaster's targets. It's more a statement about Taunt's 5 target max than anything else.
As for attacking first, it seems that you need to be relatively higher then the person wqho aggroed first. At least, that's what i've noticed. Two "equal" brute fighting the same AV, the one who attacked first will likely keep the aggro on him.
For the rest of the post. Why did you only answer to my very exagerated exemples instead of refering to my actual arguments? I used those exemples because for me, they are as silly as asking every tanker to have taunt. Not because i believe them. -
Quote:That's an awesome idea. Make granite into a costumisable power that keeps you at your normal size. And when you pick granite, you get a 0 end/s toggle that lets you go in granite if you want. Since it's the same for male/female/huge, only one would be needed to make. =OOriginally Posted by SinergyX_EU
I do remember having a very tiny huge male character, it looks plain awsome morphing into this huge pile of rocks. So do keep the original open, maybe swap it like the new ammo thing of dual guns? Or like the halloween outfits, the power gives you several powerbuttons, each giving a differnt look or model.
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Quote:And some blasters are capable of overaggroing even the tanks with taunt. =POriginally Posted by Commando
What's also very true is that for good players, using 'Taunt' along with any other tools makes it even better. Like I said, for gaining, holding, and managing aggro, whatever can be done without 'Taunt', I believe it can be done even better along with 'Taunt'. That's why I don't argue too much about Auras vs Taunt.
Also, like the poster above said, some nasty pwning blasters are capable of overaggroing even the tanks with the best auras. 'Taunt' works a bit different, especially well slotted.
Aggro is dertermined by a lot of things: AT threat modifier, who aggroed it first, the damage you do, the mezz you do, how close you are and the different taunt effect.
Generalizing it as "taunt always work" isn't true.
As for auras + taunt works better then just auras. That's true. But it can be said about a lot of things. A regen or WP scrapper can become more survivable if he take aid self. But they don't necessarily need it. Specialy not when they have to trade something for it.
And if the exemple doesn't work cause "surviving" is the secondary job of scrappers. Why don't all scrappers take assault, tactics and hasten? It helps there primary, and apparently it's doesn't matter what they sacrifice for that. -
Quote:Far from rare. A lot of people might have enough to get one miracle/numina unique, but two for the same character? That's a huge difference. Where's talking of more or less 500 mil or 500-ish merits. For one set. And considering most people don't have just one character, it's normal to prefer having 10 characters IOed then just 5 but with two builds each. You are a lot more versatile if it's 10 different characters you can offer.Originally Posted by Gilia
This is an incredibly specific set of circumstances. They have just enough influence for one build, they IO'd out early enough to make such a substantial difference that they are gimped when they change, and they somehow couldn't fit taunt into the first concept/build. This poor player... I'm glad he or she is in the minority!
I'm not talking of only the player. Her character was in the top 10% of all i've seen. SO her AS stalker was far from gimped in my perspective.Quote:Someone in the top 10% took the time to IO out a character then intentionally gimped it? Wow. That's saying something about us as a whole. I'm exaggerating of course, I can imagine circumstances where this would be all right.
The game being balanced to SOs isn't terribly relevant to most people playing with IOs. I mean, do you ever play at +0 x1? Like after level 10 perhaps? I balance the game to my build and/or team.
I've brought the SOs in, because she was clearly a better attition to the team then pretty much all SOs build i've seen, and better then a lot of IO builds. Are you so elitist as to refuse to team with anyone who's not a good minmaxer with an IOed character?
But it is essentially what i said. Everyone must play like you do. If they don't, you label them gimped and leech, you say they don't help the teamQuote:That's not the question at all. Everyone's goal should be upon entering a team to somehow better that team. The capabilities of the team should increase. Therefore, the best of the players' skills, resources, and brains should be used every. single. time. I don't care if someone plays totally differently than I do. What I do care about is if they intend to team with me, that they intend to actually help me. Along the same lines as the aforementioned two builds, as I believe you suggested, the IO build should come out, even if the power choices are less appropriate. Probably, anyway. Why? Because that's what best serves the team.
If I had a build that was clearly not team appropriate, yes you can ask that question, and no I probably would not team. If I had a build that was clearly not for soloing, I probably would not solo. I can't believe this sort of thing needs to be explicit.
Anyone who intentionally gimps their build then intends to team with it is essentially leeching.
Tauntless tanker, or AS-less stalker can enter a team an greatly improve it. They won't if you can only play the tanker-healer-DPS trinity. If they entered my team, they be helping me, so why aren't they helping you? Because they don't play like you do.
SO for you, there build is not team appropirate, but that's entirely subjective. -
Quote:Anyone know if all summons doesn't work while flying? I know the ouroboros portal and at least some temp power summon don't work hen you're in the air, but i never check on an MM or troller/dom's pet.Originally Posted by DarkGob
Footstomp, of course, does not work while flying.
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Quote:For those who IO there characters and don't have the inf to do it with the two builds, no matter what the second one looks like, it will always suck when compared to the IOed one. You might have taunt, but you'll be half as tough, have endurance problem and do a lot less damage. =POriginally Posted by Gilia
In regard to the OP, with the availability of dual builds, there's really no good "why not" for taunt.
I've seen it happen. Dark/dark stalker that played like a brute. And she was still better then 90% of the people i've seen in this game. Could she have been better with AS? Probably. But in a game where the balance is based on SOs, i don't see any reason to not accept someone like this, unless i plain refuse anyone without a fully IOed build on my team.Quote:As far as my running crew, none of us will build a tanker or brute without taunt. At worst, it gets pushed back a bit. There's simply no good reason to drop it outside of concept. You don't see any Stalkers dropping Assassin Strike or Placate for "concept" though.
Same question could be asked to you. Why team if you want everyone to play exactly your way? Wouldn't you be better playing MMs solo or dual(or more) boxing?Quote:More power to Tankers who don't take taunt, but at that point the question for me is "why team?" More importantly, "why would I want you on my team?" -
Quote:For a scranker build, taunt won't boost your DPS. Between 0 damage+ proc and a real attack +proc, the real attack will do more damage. And you have more then enough attacks to make an attack chain without holes.Originally Posted by Berzerker_NA
You know, with the incredibly poor damage tanks do, something I've found in single player is that you can boost your total DPS quite a lot if you just take Taunt and slot the Perfect Zinger Psi Damage proc to it. It's only 20% likely to affect any one target it hits, but if you're surrounded by a whole bunch of enemies, you'll probably manage to damage at least one of them just about every time you fire your taunt off.
That might make it valuable to scrankers. I don't know. Maybe still not valuable enough?
With IOs, you can get pretty good % with only 4-5 slots. Wich leaves you the place for 1-2 procs. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Berzerker_NA
I wonder why people build scrankers? Is it for the ability to soft cap resistances, or just to gain access to Ice, Stone, Mace, and Axe power sets? I mean: honestly: if you're going to play a tank like a scrapper, why not just make a scrapper? Your missions will go faster, and there's a whole lot less frustration in general.
Considering i've tried 3 of the 4 sets you just mentionned, yep. =P Now that Mace is available to brute, i've got one at 50, and i'm waiting for new secondary before trying stone melee.
As long as full proliferation isn't achieved, people will keep doing it. Or even for SS as long as GR isn't out.
That's the reason why you saw Pistols Petless MMs in the past 3-4 years. There was no other way to do it. Concept is more important then the numbers for some players, specialy when you already have a min-maxed FoTM at lvl 50. -
Quote:This time of the week again? Did Mid's kill your dog when you were younger?Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
Bout time someone other then me speaks up.
I for one finally decided on a Scrapper combo that im very much enjoying right now.For my playing style it adds over all balance for ST, AoE, Def%, Resistance, high survivability, and a heal with bonus increased HPs from Dull Pain.
Im talking about a Spines/Invln.When I get to higher levels ill be adding the Blaze Epic for this Scrapper.
Why a Spines/Invln when I could have made a Elec/SD Scrapper?Simple.I dont use Mids, and I play what I like.I also built it for Concept, instead of building a concept around a Mids build.
The best is whatever you play comfortably with, and excell at.When you start min/maxing a game, it only means imagination and creativity dont apply to you.Nothin wrong with that, not everyone has the none logical spark like some others do.
Min/Maxers are logic based players, where as people like my self dont use logic.We do what feels good.
As for Mids users, my only issue with them is that the program lies more then it tells the truth.Thats why they are concerned with what they belive is the best and try to map out IOs before playing the character.Mainly becuase they cant play anything less.When other players like my self play combos they say are horrible, and excell far better then most who use Mids before IOs ever enter into our minds.
I second this guys post.
Min/Maxing and having a concept is far from exclusive. I've seen plenty of people find a concept then min/max with said concept. Choosing IO sets over generic SOs won't change anything about your "concept" or Roleplay.
Mids lying? Not really (unless there's a bug, but it happenned in-game too). You can get wrong impression if you dont know how to use it, but for most part, Mids tell you exactly what you the numbers will be. Add in your experience, and you can compare those numbers to those you already played.
As for you doing better with SOs then most people using Mids? Very doubtfull. And you'll never even come close to what the best one who use Mid's can do.
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Now that i have a /stoner with granite, i can talk. =p
I'd love if you could costumize granite. If for that we lose the size change, i don't really care. (though i can understand some would) Something like ice-armor's toggles, but with the lava, stone or crystalin surface would be awesome. -
Quote:You said: One tank will be completely outstripped in ability to do damage by the teaming of a Tank and a Blaster.Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Post Deleted
I'll reply with: One tank will be completely outstripped in ability to do damage by the teaming of a Tank and a Tank.
Kinda logical that two characters outstrip one character for damage. =P -
Quote:Sorry, but that's BS.Originally Posted by hewhorocks
I think that the real issue isnt that the tanks in this instance didnt have taunt or werent effective at holding agro; its that the lack of communication about the deviation from expected roles in a team dynamic. The expected role of a tank is to capture and hold agro. While this is not the only way to play the archetype it is the universally assumed play-style. When playing in a team dynamic, a good (skilled) player who deviates from the expected role communicates to teammates what to expect.
The reasons for this lack of communication in this case may be that the players in question dont understand the expected roles. If you dont understand that generally speaking tanks are assumed to be there to take the punch then abilities that help you do that arent going to be your priority. You dont have to take taunt to manage agro and you can focus on your attacks instead of defenses. However doing these things makes you less able to fulfill your expected role. The mobs arent surprised they could care less, its your fellow players that have to deal with the unexpected circumstances.
I agree that no one should be able to tell you how to play. No one should force you into being a good player either. Just know that if you are playing in a team and for some reason have built a character to play contrary to its expected role you either alert your teammates to that fact or you are a bad player (regardless of your toons capabilities or archetype.)
A lot of people expect a defender to just "heal". I think there's even more players that think that way then those who know defenders offer a lot more. So by your logic, a FF or TA or devices ,etc defender should tell everytime he joins a team : "Guys, by the way, i can't heal."
Also, for corrs, what's the universaly assumed play-style? Support first or attacking first? Since it's seems to be 50-50, any corruptor should always yell there playstyle at the beginning?
And what about the different servers? If a server have a huge focus on PvP (don't remember wich one), maybe for them, it's totally normal to skip things that doesn't help in PvP. And in Virtue Roleplay and concept first? I have a hard time imagining someone saying: "Sorry guys, i just wanted to make an ill/rad cause they are uber, i don't have any concept or background!"
The point is, there's so many differant point of view, you can't expect people to know what is the "universaly assumed" play-style. At least, not untill the devs force all of us to participate in a huge poll, and publish the results.
If a team leader expect someone to fill a specific role, he should ask about it. It's not my job to explain my build from A to Z, just to make sure i fit the role he wants me to play. That's not really different then a leader mentionning it's going to be a speed run TF, a farm or a Master run. -
Quote:What Clouded said.Originally Posted by Vitality
My point, proved by the OP and some others, is that Tankers and Defenders(although I don't know too much about them) are the only ATs to get flak for not choosing a single power.
Also, Scrapper and Stalkers will get yelled at if they skip there mezz protection toggle.
VEATs have it just as bad as tanker with taunt, if they skip TT:maneuvers. People were almost asking for the accounts of those who skipped it to be deleted in the few topics i've seen.
MMs too will get yelled at for skipping some buffs.
The only "safe" AT is blasters (and khelds, cause lots of people don't know much about it) cause it doesn't have controll, support or personnal protection power sets. Though you'd probably get yelled at if you skip blaze on your fire/ blaster. =P -
Quote:I aggree 100% with that. I'll always favor a playstyle were you can take care of yourself. All the ATs are good and don't need babysitting to stay alive, even the "squishy" blasters.Originally Posted by Rylas
For me it is a simple case of mind over matter. I do not mind if the blaster face plants because they do not matter.
Oh, was that rude? Maybe instead I should barge into the Blaster forums and tell them how I should probably interview each one that wants to join the team I am on. After all, if they don't want to consider the consequences of launching numerous AoEs into groups of mobs, I don't want to hear about the fact that they died. Would that come across as less obnoxious?
Tanks aren't your babysitter. If you need one, you may have to ask why your play style requires supervision of another player. While a good tank will do what they can to keep you healthy, it's not their sole reason for being there. If you die, there's only one person to blame. You. Learn to use what tools are available to get out of harms way. Try running. Try carrying purples. Try anything. But don't expect someone out there to be worried about your every constant move 24/7. You aren't entitled to demand how others play.
And nothing more insulting then a tanker (or def/troller or redside ATs) who dictate you how to play, cause he thinks he's responsible for you staying alive. If i die, it's my fault, if i live it's my fault.
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That too, i knew i forgot something. ^^;;Quote:Originally Posted by Jet_BoyYou had me to here. I understand that a Tanker's "Taunt" ability if a very good tool for them to have, especially with a team in mind. All my tankers have it. However... if Taunt was meant to be an innate power, it would have been made an innate ability. It's not, so the choice is left to the individual (Same as Petless MMs... I don't get it personally, but it's their 15 bucks): If they don't want the taunt power, nothing says they have to take it.
The only thing anyone in this game is "supposed to be doing" is having fun. Everything else is negotiable. -
If it's to help you choose for a secondary set, they are equivalent.
Defense alone: You'll be invincible, but as soon as two-hit lands in a row, you're dead.
Resist alone: If you're at 90% against that particular damage type, it will take a long while to die, but you will eventually.
For both, you need either lots of regen, an heal that comes fairly often, or a good mix of res/def.
For def, regen alone might not be enough.
For res, regen alone could be enough, if you get good numbers (all the heal uniques, and a few set bonuses)
Heal will do for both. -
Yeah, claws/ is awesome. Very good aoe or ST, depending on how you build it and you even have two ranged attacks.
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Quote:Then i'll have to check. I have a few lvl 50s that would love to get stealth for lower TFs. =3Originally Posted by Dispari
It does. I can vouch for it, as my level 50 Widow has one and she can use it at level 1 (it's in Sprint).Quote:
It works at any level, as long as you still have access to the power it is slotted in. I've used it in the Ouros into that sends you back to level 1.
However, if I wanted to get a stealth IO it would be to use it for some purpose while leveling up. Having an IO I can't use until 47 is pretty pointless. I was trying at four different levels to get it, so I could have it at a lower level and maybe sometime by 20. I could never get it so I gave up.
Lucky my Widow got one so long ago. -
I start at lvl 27, with lvl 30 generic IOs. Then i start buying sets that are level 35. Depending if i want the sets bonus for a wide level of range or better %, i'll eventually upgrade them when i'm rich enough.
Of course, if i get a power really late, i'll put higher level IOs in it.