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Given how fluid the community is and that for many people their real lives can prohibit entering one month, I would continue to advocate as I have before for a more open system. Rather than mandating that people participate every month (where we end up with people dropping out and very few artists by the end) I would advocate making every month open to everyone. Players vote on the pieces and points are awarded. 10 points to first, 5 for second, 3 for third, and 1 for submitting (I made this numbers up) Then at the end of the year the artist with the most points wins.
Entering the contest late means that you have lost out on the opportunity to win points in earlier months, but means that talented artists who join our community after the start deadline aren't shut out of the competition, and can still enjoy a month win, even if they would be unable to achieve a contest win. This also means that an artist that cannot complete a submission one month, can still continue to participate later.
Given that this idea has received no support in the past I suspect people like the reality television sense that comes from elimination, and it certainly makes it feel more like a competition. This was just my brainstorm of how to avoid some of the problems that have arisen in the last several years and try to get a contest that lasts the whole year.
Regardless, Kudos to you for being willing to run it DeeDee!! -
Quote:Actually, the debuff isn't guaranteed to vanish if they're still in the rain. The debuff will only vanish about 60-70% of the time. I suspect that it's a timing issue between the power expiring and the last tic firing (I imagine it's similar to the issues with oil slick lighting). For more details, you can read about Freezing Rain in my storm guide (the powers are identical, although the numbers will be lower for corruptors than what's listed in my guide for Defenders.)However, the power (and variants like freezing rain) have a weird bug that, *if* the target is still inside the patch area when the 'rain' pseudopet expires after 15 seconds, then the debuff on them vanishes with the patch instead of lingering for 30s like it's supposed to. IIRC, back when Castle was still around he looked into getting this fixed, but apparently there's some weird technical oddity of the combat system to blame and it's not a simple bug to squish. So amusingly enough, it's actually *good* to have them wander out of the patch, at least if you're more interested in the debuffs than in the knockdown effect.
Before Castle left I contacted him about this and he informed me that they were aware of the bug but had no plans to fix it in the foreseeable future. I have no idea if it's even on the current power team's radar, but I wouldn't be too enthusiastic for a fix.
Based on other powers in the game it is believed by many that Freezing Rain (and thus sleet and other pseudopets) were not intended to be able to stack, and a fix to this "bug", might also include a change to prevent FR/Sleet stacking. -
Quote:Correct, the proc works like momentum. That's probably the easiest way I've yet heard to explain it. (It appears the wiki is still wrong about that.)Does the proc function like momentum? Where if you have momentum you can't get another till it wears off?
The proc used to have a cooldown period: that's what the confusing graph on Paragon Wiki is in which after it fired it couldn't fire for another 15 seconds. I believe this is because the proc used to fire 100% of the time, and this was a quick fix to keep it from being too powerful.
In short if the proc fires you will get 100% recharge for 5 seconds. Nothing else can happen until those 5 seconds are up. You can't get 200% recharge, you can't extend the duration, you can't refresh the duration. 5 seconds 100% recharge, that's it.
(I will concede it's possible they've changed the proc in the past year, they like to mess with this proc and the aegis: +mez resistance, but as of my last testing that's the way it worked) -
It does not have a cool down, but it will self suppress. In other words the proc will not fire if it is currently active on you. Rather than refreshing the duration, or stacking, the proc will simply be ignored.
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Quote:Well if you end up not going for Burnout, I would probably take soul transfer (or if you run lots of trials and want to be a team player, Resuscitate. Outside of itrails you can just use the hospital day job rez)You know Draggynn I'm in the same boat regarding Burnout, but I couldn't think of anything else that I could put in for 1 slot and I was curious about how Burnout would work with the build myself. I think it will be pretty cool to pull out 3 lighting storms.
So technically those are two different bonuses Hindenburg. (Which is what I think you mean about secondary global buffs). The Zephyr bonus is a 1.25% ranged defense bonus, while the Thunderstrike bonus is a 2.5% energy/negative defense bonus. Thus even though they both provide 1.25% ranged defense, they are counted seperately. Similar to the way even though LoTG's provide a 7.5% recharge bonus you could still get the bonus from five sets of Basilisk's Gaze as well. -
Quote:Except that the fifth slot in Stamina is a recharge/accuracy IO which provides a 2.5% damage bonus, and therefore won't improve your endurance recovery at all. You would get more endurance aid by slotting that IO into an attack power for more endurance discount. (say ice bolt). Also in the case of Hurricane, you can afford to loose the debuff/recharge IO with minimal impact to performance. There are lots of little tweaks that can be made, and as I suggested before, I think the build Doomguide posted includes some important ideas (better slotting on Blizzard for example).As the original purpose of this post, I slotted extra in Stamina because I had difficulty with endurance, although stop using Snow Storm on bosses does help a bit. I need to test more to see if I can maintain a rotation without going dry, perhaps more recharge on Power Sink?
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It is rather clear that the OP has no interest in the feedback that has been provided in the thread, and if this build works for them, GREAT! And although this build is significantly better than the first build posted there are still some flaws. Some advice directed to other people looking for build advice:
If you are having endurance troubles then the very first step is to stick a Numina in Health along with the Miracle. That won't solve your problems (since you don't have an endurance recovery power in your epic, you will almost certainly need incarnate abilities to fully manage your endurance) but it will help.
As has already been pointed out, Freezing Rain is far under slotted. This power should have recharge and Procs in it. I can think of very few situation in which the defense debuff from FR would be insufficient, but the additional debuff from shield breaker would be. If you need more defense debuff on a target, then I would recommend taking tornado. (In fact, almost all high performance Earth/Storm builds will take Tornado because Earth has an immobilize that suppresses Knockback allowing Tornado to deal massive amounts of damage. If I was only going to have three slots in Freezing Rain, I would probably go: Recharge, Recharge, Achilles' Heel. For a more detailed explanation of FR option, I direct you to my guide. Numbers are slightly different for controllers, but it will give you an idea.
Also, you are trying to build for both ranged defense, and smashing/Lethal defense and as a result you fail to soft cap either. Now granted, with a controller you generally have enough lockdown that defense is not a major concern, but to the extent that you are going that route, you are generally better off soft capping (That means hitting 45%) of either ranged or smash/lethal, rather than going for mid 30s on both. (If you are only planning on running incarnate content, then this is less relevant as the softcap there is 59%) The difference between 45% defense and 35% defense is the difference between getting hit 15% of the time, and 5% of the time. In other words that final 10% means that you're only getting hit 1/3 as often. The absolute minimum you should do on this front is slotting 4 kinetic combats in Seismic Smash. (4 enfeebled operations aren't bad either, I would probably pull slots from either Thunderclap or Stalagmites and Seismic Smash) -
Quote:I wouldn't intentionally give up recharge just to give up recharge. If you see some other bonus or other slotting you are interested in going for, I wouldn't stick with recharge bonuses purely to stick with recharge bonuses either, seeing as you note you may not have the endurance to take advantage of all that recharge. However, even if you don't have enough endurance to go full steam all the time, keeping the recharge bonuses gives you the ability to play more aggressively if you have, for example, a kin, or an emp on your team that can aid in your endurance woes.I'm wondering if perhaps I want to have LESS recharge. Maybe a plant/storm doesn't need all that recharge? Sure, a lot of recharge is nice, but if one doesn't have the endurance to feed it, it seems futile.
Quote:Thanks for your tip on perhaps other masteries and Cardiac. I'll have to check into how to obtain Cardiac...sounds a bit more doable than Destiny (based on your input).
Quote:With regards to some masteries (Leviathan, Mu, etc.)... does a hero need to become a vigilante, then a villain, to obtain these? I thought that was the case, but perhaps I'm wrong? -
Soundtrack your build will be in better shape than Swansu's when it comes to endurance because you have conserve power. But you will need to make some enhancement modifications. Given this combinations high endurance drain the miracle/numina uniques in health and a performance shifter +endurance in Stamina are almost necessities. If you make those changes you may still have endurance troubles given your high recharge, but I wouldn't say that you would need an incarnate power to make the build viable (although cardiac certainly wouldn't hurt and won't require grinding incarnate content to the same extent that destiny would.) whereas without any endurance gaining power Swansu's build would likely prove painful preincarnate content even with those IOs.
In addition to those changes, other things that jump out at me:
damage proc would be better in roots, probably swap out the damage/range
Look at some plant guides, loading up creepers with procs seems to be the way to go.
There are other optimizations that could be made, especially if you're willing to play around with Hamios to free up slots (Steamy Mist and Temp Invulnerability) but since this doesn't seem to be a no cost spared build, I won't go there.
As your character is currently built, especially with that high of a recharge, you will almost certainly find that you run out of endurance if you try to run at full power for an extended period of time. Of course whether this is a "major" problem or not depends on how good you are at endurance management (modifying attack chains when you need to, perhaps not summoning LS every fight, etc.)
Furthermore, if you want to run at full power all the time, ageless is not your only option. The cardiac alpha slot will help substantially on this front, or if you don't want to be reliant on any incarnate content, pick an epic pool that provides you with an endurance recovery mechanism (fire mastery, ice mastery, primal forces mastery, leviathan mastery, mu mastery, soul mastery) and that may well be sufficient for most purposes.
For Swansu: I can't comment on ageless since I almost always go with Clarion for the mez protection so someone else will need to chime in on that.
The only thing that really jumps out at me in your build is that the Soulbound Allegiance in Tornado is wasted, it works out to be only a 6.25% damage increase: you would better off just slotting a damage IO. (see my guide if you want the numbers). -
Quote:Which would suggest the proc will be better in Fly Trap against a single hard target, but likely better in Tornado against a group.Thanks for the info!
I don't know how much they improved Fly Trap's AI (all i know is that they did) because I deleted my Dom and at the time she sucked, my troller still didn't make it to 32 (lazy I know).
Anyway Fly Trap has 4 powers:
1) Entangle, the Plant St immob, doesn't matter for the proc because it's the only power that doesn't apply a defdebuff, plus it has a 16 sec recharge;
2) ST ranged thorn (like the tier 1 from thorny assault), applies -def, recharges in 3 secs;
3) The thorns cone, recharges in 12 seconds, -def, 10 target cap;
4) Bite, melee -def attack that also does -def. -
Quote:Probably too late for this to have much of an impact, but in case someone is reading through, Tornado does not benefit from containment. The advice to spam the AoE immobilize is because it prevents Tornado from knocking enemies away thereby increasing its damage output, not because Tornado deals double damage from containment. (All those numbers you're seeing are really because Tornado ticks every .5 seconds, not because you're seeing double damage)3) Tornado does benefit from containment. So, by all means spam your AoE immob along with it
I have no experience with FlyTrap, and so can't comment on how effective it will be in that power, I can tell you thought that in Tornado the proc will have a chance to fire three times. Once when the power is summoned, once at the 10 second mark, and once at the 20 second mark and will make a check on all enemies within 7 feet of Tornado. (Of course Tornado has the added advantage that you can have more than one out at once). So my guess is that it's better than flytrap, but if flytrap spams that cone more than once every 10 seconds, it might actually be better. -
Quote:Thanks for the shout out! My guide probably has more information than you have any interest in, but if there is any Storm power you're wondering about, you can probably get an answer about it in my guide (note, that LS should be coming out **soon**)Both Silas' guide and Draggyn's (found I think in his signature as I recall) are excellent resources.
Quote:The Procs (Positron, Achilles) proc in the initial cast and then once each ten seconds, freezing rain lasts 30 secs so it will proc thrice (maybe 4 times? 0, 10, 20, 30? not sure but at least 3 times).
Some quick thoughts looking at the most recent build you've posted (which are mostly in line with Doomguide's changes) although no mids at the moment so it's just what jumps out at me. In general I would try to focus your set bonuses on either defense for survivability of recharge for offensive power. In most situations +recharge will increase your damage output more than +damage:
If you actually plan on using gale, you should slot more accuracy in it. The damage from gale is basically non existent and not worth slotting for.
Freezing Rain could use more recharge. You want it up as often as possible (especially since it stacks with itself)
Stamina is overslotted, I would move that fifth slot somewhere else. -
I have not played around with Burnout and am skeptical about it for Storm given the endurance hit that you take. However, with both Ageless and Cardiac you could probably overcome that issue, so it could work. I'll be curious to hear how this works out for you if you go this route. I suspect you'll find that burnout isn't up often enough to make it worthwhile, but i could be wrong.
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Alright, I only have a couple of minutes so just some quick thoughts looking at the most recent build you posted:
1) Unless you really, really love Snow Storm, it's over slotted. If you're hoping to be an AV killer, take ALL of those slots and stick them in Tornado, and then you can slot Expedient Reinforcements (same defense + recharge) or blood mandates (more defense). That -recharge really is worthless since Snow Storm and FR will pretty much soft cap everything.
2) Howl: swap in the damage proc to deal more damage
3) Freezing Rain, underslotted for recharge, accuracy and slow are far less important than recharge in this power. Again, FR and SS can handle slow, you really just want FR up as often as possible.
4) You can pull a slot from hurricane if you need it somewhere else
5) You can stick a stealth spot in a sprint power, freeing up a slot if you want. Especially since stealth with super speed and steamy mist is redundant. If you're going to be running SS, you don't need stealth.
6) Tornado could use more slots as already discussed
7) wouldn't hurt survivability to get a little resistance in Dark Embrace.
8) Performance shifters will perform better in Stamina. (end mod, proc, and standard end mod IO)
I would not try to work burnout into the build. I have not tried it, but suspect the endurance penalty would be too great.
If you have enough endurance to not need cardiac, I would consider going spiritual before Musculature (more Freezing Rain, more Lightning Storm, more endurance recovery from dark consumption) -
Yes, the suppression has been removed. It did used to work as explained under the historical heading. The suppression was added, I believe in part, to help resolve an issue where the proc was firing EVERY time. They have since fixed this issue, and the suppression has been removed. However, the proc self suppresses (it will not fire if the buff is currently active on you) but no longer has a suppression period after the proc has expired.
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Quote:This is accurate: Numina, Miracle, and Regenerative Tissue will only affect the caster for 120 seconds after the power is used, so if you stick them in a heal, you will need to use the power at least every 120 seconds to keep the benefit up. (This is why they are horrible to slot in a targeted heal, especially if you solo). they will never have a chance to proc on your target.It depends on how the proc is implemented in game. Some procs affect the caster of the pwoer while some affect the target. Unfortunately RedTomax is still down so I can't verify but if I recall correctly all of the Proc120s (which includes Numina and Miracle) are set to affect the caster so won't propagate to teammates.
As Mega_Jamie mentioned there are some other procs such as Panacea (and I believe Performance Shifter) which instead affect the target of the power (which is why you don't slot Performance Shifter in Electrical Balst).
Panacea however will proc on the target, and will work as you desire in an AoE heal. Performance Shifter can be a little wonky since many powers that grant endurance also drain endurance, and so you will want to be certain that the proc isn't giving endurance back to your enemies, but only granting endurance to you. -
I've voiced my displeasure with this forum elsewhere, and it is my intention to do what small part I can in killing this forum by only providing feedback to builds posted in the appropriate AT forum section. Although I can't speak to the motivation of other build feedback givers, it appears that several prominent voices, for whatever reason, have opted not to respond to posts in this forum as well.
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This build is a little bit odd as a high recharge build, so I assume that a secondary unmentioned consideration was cost. In general, a high recharge build entails fitting in as many purple sets as possible (10% recharge bonuses that you don't lose when you exemp), where as you dropped down on the normal of purple sets from your defense build. I will assume this is a cost consideration rather than an oversight in this case.
Granted, at this level of recharge, additional recharge doesn't make a huge difference, but upping the recharge can let you go with another option than Spiritual, since almost all Storm Builds are going to be endurance intensive (especially with high levels of recharge, Freezing Rain, Tornado, and Lightning Storm are not cheap).
Freezing Rain: As local said, damage is not useful in Freezing Rain. You will deal substantially more damage slotting procs than you will slotting for damage. If there are no procs in Freezing Rain, then accuracy is irrelevant, as the number of procs increases, accuracy becomes more important so those procs will hit on the first tic before enemies have been debuffed by Freezing Rain. You would be better of exchanging your two acc/dam IOs for a pure accuracy and a damage proc.
Hurricane: I agree with Local in putting 4 slots here. You can easily take slots from one of the numerous powers you have an extra bonusless slot in.
In terms of which set to swap out, the easy answer is turn one of those 6.25% bonuses into a 10% bonus with a purple set. Other places to consider are in Tornado, since the power is auto-hit and therefore doesn't benefit from any of the accuracy bonuses and thus can be slotted more optimally.
If you're looking to spend more money, Hami-O Ribosomes in Mind Over Body would be superior to your current slotting as well -
Someone else will have to come along and provide more feedback on the Plant aspects of this build, but here are some pointers on the storm aspect to think about:
Freezing Rain: Damage is the least important aspect of Freezing Rain to slot. Freezing Rain should be slotted first for recharge (so that it is up more often), damage should be the last thing you slot. If you're going to slot FR that heavily with procs, then accuracy can be important to ensure that it can hit, but more recharge in that power is a must. A pure recharge IO in place of your acc/dam/end will take 3 seconds off the recharge time, definitely worth it in my book.
Thunderclap:
I would check to see if this proc actually fires. When I last checked, back in March, this proc would only fire in PvP, so I suspect you won't find it particularly useful there.
Tornado:
This is another power, where if you are intending to use it a lot, you will get more benefit out of additional recharge. Also, at the damage level you are currently at, slotting Tornado for more damage may actually be better than slotting with a proc (you lose the potential for burst damage from the proc, but total damage is greater, and damage will be more consistent. See my guide for the full details on that tradeoff)
Seismic Smash: If you are going for the soft cap in Smashing Lethal, then this really ought to be 4 Kinetic Combats. The addition of some recharge in Seismic Smash will be nice, and I predict you won't much notice the drop in accuracy if you can keep Freezing Rain up.
And personally, I love Hurricane and would find a way to fit it in, but obviously avoid it if it doesn't work with your playstyle. -
Quote:Good advice has already been given, but I would point out, that I would not choose Psionic Mastery on the basis that it provides additional -recharge. You can floor the -recharge on greater than even con enemies just with Snow Storm and Freezing Rain, so although the -recharge can be nice (so you don't need to worry about Snow Storm, just Freezing Rain and Tornado and you're at the floor for even con enemies) it certainly isn't necessary and won't add much to your arsenal.-Psionic Mastery. This is the one that I am actually hoping to make work the most. I would actually like to take all five powers in this pool if I could. The -recharge to stack with snow storm on harder single targets from Mental Blast. Indomitable Will and Mind Over Body, both seem to be great buffs to have. Psionic Tornado for more AoE damage, maybe more proc slots, AoE -recharge, again to stack with snow storm.
That said, there are still great reasons to pick Psionic Mastery that have been pointed out (large AoE, but mostly Indomitable Will). Although it's true that there's an incarnate power that can provide perma mez protection, that may still be a ways off for you depending on how often you're planning on running trials, and having mez protection in another form opens up more options for your destiny power. -
Quote:I know you want to use Fireball early in your attack chain so that it's recharged sooner, but I would recommend trying to move Freezing Rain before Fireball so that you still get the 30% resistance debuff on Fireball's damage.Rotation: Flashfire, Fire Cages, Fireball, move in for Hot Feet, Snow Storm on chosen anchor while running in, Freezing Rain, Fire Cages again, Thunderclap, Lightning Storm, Tornado, Fire Cages (or Char on stubborn ones) - Everything that isn't a Boss is dead now.
Quote:Ghost Widow owns my azz = no mez prot extra super sucks -
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Hmm, old thread. Just some alternative perspectives on this:
Quote:Hey Blissful, I'm curious what level you're fighting that your having trouble staying alive past an alpha. Freezing Rain should be able to provide enough mitigation to make taking an alpha from a standard size group trivial, and buy you more than enough to time to get out Lightning Storm and Tornado if that's your strategy.I Know this is very different but I have lots of experience as stormie on a defender and I learned a few things...namely you need to be able to take a hit. Since you cant heal yourself outside inspirations it's important survive long enough to get your pseudo-pets out.
Quote:Something else...steamy mist..dont bother slotting it up for defense..not worth it. But its resistances are very nice to enhance And stack well with tough/charged armor for some well-rounded resists.
Quote:It should also warn you that Thunder Clap is very flashy but lacking on its own..as a mag 2 stun it really only stuns minions on its own, thats why I liked tesla cage plus the extra hold to lock down a boss or 2 things that are making trouble for me. -
Quote:**mourns briefly for Lightning Storms that inherited Hasten**Yes, you can get more than one Lightning Storm and more than one Tornado out. Unfortunately, the Recharge buff does not extend to the pets and pseudopets. Multiple Freezing Rains will stack.
Just a quick mention on Freezing Rain, although it stacks (you will rarely stack the rain portion as that requires almost 400% recharge, the debuff lasts long after the actual rain ends) don't be dissapointed if the debuff appears not to last the full 45 seconds that it should. If enemies are in the patch with the power terminates there is a greater than 50% chance that the debuff will terminate as well, as opposed to continuing for the additional 30 seconds that it's supposed to (known bug, although unlikely to be fixed, as it is unclear if the stacking behavior was ever the design intention of Freezing Rain). In my book, this is an argument for more recharge and shouldn't really affect anything in your build, just something to be aware of if it appears not to be stacking.
As Local Man said, defense is not as essential on a controller, but if you are going to go that route, I highly recommend just focusing on ranged defense. Hurricane can basically handle all Melee and the number of AoE attacks is surprisingly limited. (Not to say that there aren't any, but there are many more devastating ranged attacks). -
Quote:This is my thought too. I am interested and willing to give advice on Storm Summoning (especially for defenders) as it is a power set that I feel I know quite a bit about. I have no interest in giving advice on scrapper, brute, stalker, blaster, mastermind, tank, dominator, kheldian or SoA builds. Granted it is still pretty easy to scan the titles for builds I might be interested in providing feedback for, but it is not something I am likely to do.People that are "experts" on an AT are more likely to spend time in that forum IMO. They will probably give good advice, and relatively quickly. So yes, you probably wont see posts about ATs that you don't play much, but do you really want to?
My mind may change over time, but my initial thoughts are revulsion towards this forum. I like to think about providing advice on builds as part of a larger discussion on how to play a certain powerset that is more involved than simply saying, "here play this build". I like to think that people who post asking for builds have already spent substantial time reading and synthesizing the information that is available rather than simply posting a build and saying, "Plz fix!" Although I don't know that such an attitude would prevail with this forum, separating out builds from the rest of the information involving the AT would seem to encourage that sort of thinking.
I will wait and see, but am not thrilled with this change. (I think updating the guides section in the various forums might be more beneficial than simply adding a builds forum.)