Dr_Darkspeed

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So you're saying they'll divy up the Unresistable portion too?
I duno man, that sounds like more coding than it's worth to me...

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It takes the entire block of damage and apportions it by the ratios described. For the Mastermind, he then gets his Resistances applied, while the pets get no resistance to the shared damage.

In the case of unresistable damage, therefore, all damage is apportioned, then resists apply normally -- the unresisted portion is still unresisted, but it is reduced by the Bodyguard.

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Thanks Castle

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I don't like this. Here's why: I have my Medic set to Defensive/Follow, so that he doesn't run about blasting everything with his subar damage. Instead, he heals. Now, he's going to be taking a beating instead of giving a healing.

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Well you could always put your medic on passive/follow instead. That way he'll follow and (someone correct me if I'm wrong on this) still heal even though he's in passive. But because he's in passive instead of defensive, he won't "bodyguard".

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On Passive mode, my Medic stands there with his thumb straight up his butt.

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Maybe they could change the AI for that? Make it so support henchmen still use their support abilities, even on passive? Or would that cause other problems?

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Resistance and this almost certainly are completely different code legs. I see no reason why this would be resisted.

In fact, this probably counts before resistance is factored in.

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Thats another good question: Is it the total damage of the attack that is shared, or just the amount of damage the MM would have taken after their own resists?

Say this example:
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Example: If a Mastermind has 3 Henchmen set to Def/Fol, and he gets hit with a 100 point attack, each Henchman will take 20 points of damage, and he himself will take 40 points. (total of 100 points of damage).


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If the MM had 20% resistance to this attack, would it become:

20 points of the 100 damage are resisted,leaving 80 points of damage to be shared. then each Henchman will take 16 points of damage, and he himself will take 32 points. (total of 80 points of damage).

OR

The MM gets hit with a 100 point attack, each Henchman will take 20 points of damage, and he himself will take 40 points, of which he resist 20%, meaning he takes 32 damage. (total of 92 points of damage).

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I see so many blapper/scrapper/stalker insta-deaths for MM's. This should help cushion those initial attacks quite a bit. Offensively, I'm sure some nice tricks will develop.

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Well, I wouldn't go THAT far... 30% of all Blaster damage is unresistable and Scrapper crits are the same way. ..so umm.. 30% of 60%(assuming you even have all your pets close and are getting the full %)... would be 42%. ...It might be more like 51% against Scrappers though(unless there's one using powers with increased chances of critting like Gamblers and Eagle).

But I guess that's not SOOO bad, it does afterall turn most 1-shots into 2 or 3 shots.

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Thats another good point: Would this count as resisting the attack, since it is sharing out the damage? if it doesn't count as resisting, it might mean that all of the unresitable damage will be shared just like normal.

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To have his/ her make up changed by changing the rules after all the time you spent on it, is just plain wrong.

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Debateable. Static games do not maintain player bases. Part of the challenge is working with what you've got, and learning how to adapt when something changes...and something always WILL change, in any game, anywhere.



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*cough*Chess*cough*

Not arguing against your point, but maybe you shouldn't be so unequivical in your statements

Do your henchmen's resists come into play at all?

Say in this example:
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Example: If a Mastermind has 3 Henchmen set to Def/Fol, and he gets hit with a 100 point attack, each Henchman will take 20 points of damage, and he himself will take 40 points. (total of 100 points of damage).

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If the henchs had 10% resists to the damage, would they only take 18 points of damage, instead of 20?

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Changed To Hit Debuffs to use the 5/10/20 Enhancement progression.

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Does that mean the NPC now have the new to hit system ( to hit check before level check ? )

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I don't think so, I think we have to wait for I7 to go live before we get that.

Actually, these sums don't work out

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+1 Level
Minion 55 -.05187 = 3.125% which becomes 5%.
Lt. 63 -.05187 = 11.125%
Boss 70 -.05187 = 18.125%


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These work out, assuming that .05187 is supposed to be 0.5187 (from earlier in the example)

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+2 Level
Minion .6 -.05187 = 13.125%
Lt. .68 -.05187 = 21.125%
Boss .75 -.05187 = 28.125%


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All these are 5% higher than they should be, for example the boss calculation should be: 75% - 51.87% = 23.13%, not 28.125%

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+3 Level
Minion .65 -.05187 = 28.125%
Lt. .73 -.05187 = 36.125%
Boss .8 -.05187 = 43.125%


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Similarly, for the boss 80% - 51.87% = 28.13%, not 43.125%

So, either your numbers are wrong, or you are including the fact that the debuffs are less effective against higher level opponents (though how it scales doesn't match up with what I thought the scaling was), and just not showing it in the workings.

Could you maybe double check, and do a full worked example, with real numbers, please?

Oh, and one for how it will effect PvP for those that are interested.

EDIT: for spelling, plus this

Given that this

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Foes your level have not changed. You have a 75% chance to hit and your powers are 100% effective.
Foes 1 level above you - No Change. You have a 68% chance to hit and your powers are 90% effective.
Foes 2 levels above you - No Change. You have a 61% chance to hit and your powers are 80% effective.
Foes 3 levels above you - You have a 55% chance to hit and your powers are 65% effective.


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Is how I thought powers scaled, i guesstimate that the pre-changes bit should work out like this,

Pre-17
+3s (assuming debuffs are 65% as effective as normal)
Minion: 0.65 - (0.5187*0.65) = 31.28%
Lt: 0.73-(0.5187*0.65) = 39.28%
Boss: 0.8 - (0.5187*0.65) = 46.28%


Something like that, anyhow.

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States, are you taking into account that +level mobs resist debuffs? Or is that changing in Issue 7 as well?

If the system remains as-is in that regard, then DEF will be calculated differently from ToHit debuff against +level mobs.

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Yes, I thought all power effects were less effective against higher level oponents? Is that being removed too? or is there some reason why it doesn't effect this case?

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EDIT: And, regardless, don't you think it's reasonable to assume they could get a decent number of heroes to organize together long enough to sponge clean the Rogue Isles if the villains were living in complete anarchy?

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Not really, given Heroes tendancy to fight amongst themselves. Heck, the city won't even let them congregate in groups bigger than 75.

But seriously, no. They have no jurisdiction in the Rogue Isles, so alot of the organisations wouldn't join in, and may indeed be obligated to stop the heoroes that did agree. Also, all the heroes in paragon can't wipe out various street gangs, bits of their own city are entirely overrun with alien invaders, genetically modified plants and space facists. If they can't get their own house in order, what chance would they have in hostile territory.

The thing is this: The patron thing does make sense, given the background of the Rogue Isles and the role the Devs seems to want to put the players into. Its just that, I really don't like that role and setting much.

City of Heroes wasn't about an idylic paradise where everyone is a heroes. Its a den of scum and villainy, with evil everywhere you look. And you are a lone champion, fighting against it to save people.

City of Villains really is a city full of villains. Its a den of scum and villainy, with evil everywhere you look. And you are just a little cog in the machinery of evil that runs the place. You get paid in non-existtant money, and are entirely at the will of Arachnos

That is, in my opinion of course, one of the major problems with CoV, and why I consider CoH to be the better game (in terms of making you feel like the thing in the title).

EDIT: extended up descriptions of both games

Ah, I didn't think so. But didn't like to call Click on it without checking, since I am not that observant and he/she tends to be fairly good on such things.

Tiny ID Card

ID Card

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It could be that was just my impression. The way the city is set up with government services for all the heroes and Freedom Corps personnel guiding the new heroes and the level ranks and such forth, I'd always thought we were supposed to be FC.

In any case, even if the heroes aren't FC, the original point was that they're still organized through the city government, so a completely disorganized villain "civilization" out on the Isles would get plastered unless there was some sort of unifying element.

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Not really, theres very little organisation within CoH. They help get new heroes on their feet, but after that they are left pretty much to themselves, to do as they see fit. theres certainly no indication that you work for any particular organisation (other than the Rule of Law), nor are you beholden to any organisation.

Just for fun, go read Manticores monologue in the CoH comic #11 about the benefits of being a Villain. Its kind of interesting he is describing pretty much the exact oposite of Arachnos, something more akin to the organisation we have in CoH.

EDIT to add some stuff, and to provide a better pic

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Actually, I want to address this. This is purely a CoV setting artifice. It does not exist in CoH. I never once had the feeling that Freedom Corps or any other of the organizations mentioned in the backstory had any more significant impact on the city than any one, lone hero. (Or at most, team of eight heroes.) There's never any indication of Freedom Corps keeping Malta, the Council, Nemesis, the CoT, or any other major, organized faction in check.

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Every hero in Paragon City is a registered member of Freedom Corps. 'S why our information is given on a Freedom Corps ID card. The "lone hero" in Paragon City is still working as a Freedom Corps agent under Freedom Corps auspices. Freedom Corps isn't absent - we are Freedom Corps, aren't we?

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Really? Never knew that the ID card says we are freedom Corps, and I've played the game since beta. I always thought we just got registered as heroes, hence the ID card. I think most people see it that way, because it has no impact at all on the stories in CoH.

Also, you left out defiance.

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It's really not uncommon for villains to get empowered or enhanced by other villains in comics, though, especially villains of the footsoldier variety. The Grizzly gets his suit worked on by the Tinkerer. The Wrecker's crowbar was upgraded by Loki. Baron Mordo calls on Dormammu for extra power. It's pretty standard comic stuff.

I can see how one'd run into concept trouble if one wrote oneself as the UNFLINCHING DESTROYER OF UNIVERSES AND EMPEROR OF EIGHT DIMENSIONS WHO BOWS TO NO MAN or whatnot, but it seems to me a good author works with the setting, not overrides it. If one writes a guy who'd never work for Arachnos in a game where everyone works for Arachnos, that's fine and one's decision to do, but I'm not sure it's Cryptic's problem. Same for patrons.

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Of course, since we already only get powers by being trained by Arachnos and get more powerful by being given enhancements by arachnos, and by arachnos allowiung us to have bases and equipment, you could say theres already too much of that in the game.

I think its kind of a shame that the Devs decided to make City of Mercenaries who work for Arachnos, rather than city of Villains, but I guess it was their choice to make.

I think this is going to be a tough one for them to balance so that its useful to all sizes of supergroup, but not overpowerful either.

The buff duration will be set so it allows small SGs with no teleporters (especially in CoH) to get some use from them. But, the duration can't be too long or teleporter SGs will be able to get too much use from a single buff. Similarly, the cost in salvage has to be low enough to allow small SG members to get regular use out of it, but avoiding the possibility of letting big SGs perma-buff their members. Added to all this is the strength and type of the buffs available.

Like I said, going to be tough to get it right.

Blue String Soup!

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The point is, scrappers are overal a more physical experience than an elemental one.

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That's only because of the random division of powersets. And for the fact of the matter, scrappers do have Dark Melee/Armor which everyone seems to forget.


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I dont think its random at all. And also, i do note Dark melee every time i note this, reason is, almost all ATs have at least one exception to the rule, but not many. An example can also be found on corruptors, they are meant to be mainly elemental forces, but there is AR that defintively does nto fit that mold.

Note how States also has noted Shield Melee (or however they name it) does will be available for scrappers, it does fit the current theme of the AT.

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The only reason the devs have ever given is because of "Flavor". Well, how can Dark Melee, a scrapper set, but the right "flavor" for a Brute yet Energy melee isn't Scrapper "flavor". For a long time they said Super Strength would never be a scrapper set because of AT "flavor", yet Brutes, an AT which apparently shares some Scrapper "flavor", is okay with Super Strength too.

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Brutes are mainly elemental forces too. Dark Melee fits there. And their exception is Super Strenght.

Even so, i do agree i see little reason for Scrappers not getting Super Strenght, after all, it actually does fit inside of the Scrapper "physical" flavor.

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Personally, I say dump the 'flavour' idea for ATs. The thing that makes a Scrapper a scrapper is the way that it plays, not the flavour of the powers. I would really love it if someday I could think "I think it would be really cool to play a character with an axe' and then not have to follow it up with 'So that means I have to be a hero and play the game as a Tank'.

I would like it so that: If a flavour for a particular power type (ranged, melee, support, control) is present ingame, then all ATs which get those power types can pick that flavour. So, for example Tankers, Scrapper, Brutes and Stalkers all get to pick from: Katanas, broadswords, Axe, Mace, Fire melee, Ice Melee, Elec Melee, Stone melee, Energy melee, Dark Melee, Spines, Super strength, Claws, martial arts... (and any others i have forgotten).

Not necesarily all the same versions of those sets. The order, strength, effect and even certain entire powers may be quite different when comparing Tanker Fire Melee to Stalker Fire Melee, but the choice should be there.

Now, some of those sets don't really sound right to the what I think of as the 'spirit' of the ATs mentioned. But you know what? That doesn't matter in the slightest. I don't know everything, someoen else may have been dreaming of playing a fire/fire stalker for ages, so why not let them. If it doesn;t fit your concept, then don't play one. That is much better than not being able to play one, because it doesn't fit someone elses concept.

Of course, some sets may be unsharable due to balance reasons (I think we all know it would be hell to try and make a balanced Tanker set based on regen). Still, the graphics for these powers are already ingame, the sets are already mostly made, and have been been balanced against one another to some degree already.

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A more boring and far more likely guess would be an enhancement store. If I'm wrong, I'll be happily surprised.

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Nope. Temp powers/buffs.

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Hmph.

He replyed to a reply of the post where I guessed right, and edited me out

That does it, next time he can rot in Tyrants gaol, for all I care.

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City of Heroes will receive a cool graphics upgrade, new base items (Empowerment stations!)

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Yay! Empowerment stations! Woot!

*dance*

*frolic*

...

okay. what ARE empowerment stations?

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Guesstimate: Stations where players may create temp powers for themselves, using salvage.

I have a suggestion regarding badges that unlock contacts. At the moment, there is no ingame way of knowing which badges are related to contacts nor who/where those contacts might be. To help players out, without them having to rely on an outside guide, would it be possible to have some sort of message saying a contact has been unlocked?

Either as a straight forward : You have Unlocked <contact name>

or in a more incharacter way, of the contact calling the player, saying they might have some work for them. Or maybe through an in-game e-mail or somesuch.

One thing that sort of puzzles me, is that in the realm of consoles alot of what are termed RPGs don't actually have you playing a role, they have you controling a party. So, techincally Super Mario Brothers is an RPG (you are playing the role of a plumber thrown headlong into the magical Mushroom Kingdom), but Final Fantasy isn't. RPG seems to have come to mean 'A game where your character(s) grow(s) in power/ability throughout the course game and that growth is determined, in part, by the player'

But, anyhow, back to the general topic raised: I have noticed a rise in the use of computer games in a social context. The introduction of various forms of party games has boosted them to an acceptable part of after-pub routine for a growing number of people. Also, the rise of the internet has led to peoples circles of aquaintences growing exponentially. I know people who have never been out of their State, and yet have close friends in pretty much every corner of the world. Combining these, it seems inevitable that people will use the internet to play games with each other, because human beings like games. I know for a fact that CoH is used by some people more as a social structure, than as a game. that is, they don't belong to the community because they play CoH/V, they play CoH/V so they can belong to the community. I am sure this goes on in other games too.

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EH, when it came along for me, it was too late, enemies where either do or die, so I never gave it much thought. I'm with the critical hit camp myself, let scrappers have the defiance.

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That wouldn't be a bad idea. Unfortunately, Regen kind of spoils it, so it wouldn't work.

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OK - here's the most likely outcome...

If you own both games, you get all options - the new CoV sets will be accessible for your heroes.

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That is... Fantastic!!!!

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Actually, I think it would have been cool to have Crey Security appearing early on, as a good guy group, protecting things and people that you have to steal/kidnap. Maybe add in some new lower level Crey security guard types, not in riot gear. Have the riot guys be Lt.s and the agents as bosses.

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Who says it isn't in there?

Check with the Golden Roller in Port au Diable (level 15 contact, I believe).

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Ah, well, I got bumped past that. Yay.

Though, could still do with more nonvillains, and particulalrly better use of them early on. In newspaper missions, and just generally. Ideally, they would ahve a ratio of 50:50 to fighting villains and fighting goodguys, So the player would always have the choice.

Actually, I think it would have been cool to have Crey Security appearing early on, as a good guy group, protecting things and people that you have to steal/kidnap. Maybe add in some new lower level Crey security guard types, not in riot gear. Have the riot guys be Lt.s and the agents as bosses.

CoV is lacking non-villain groups early on, and an extra security force would be a good addition, without much graphical work needed.

Plus, it would be kind of interesting to have them seen in a positive light in CoV, and then seeing the dirty secrets in CoH.