Dirges

Shadow Maul does not have a DoT, it is a DoT. You won't have the DoT running when you placate to ruin it.

Having low damage doesn't matter, nor does it being skipped. I was talking about the overall balance, which was what I was questioned on. Jab is not underpowered, it is just a quick weak attack that does follow the rules. I agree with K-OB, but that would be why I said most, not all.


As far as the crash, how do you figure that in when it is so easy to prevent it. You are already talking about double stacked rage, so it is not beyond reason to think most people can do it.

I also don't agree with raising max target on footstomp, you are just exchanging one overpowered aspect for another.

One, the question was on the one specific power, that was why I mentioned taking it out of the set, and commented on not really being overpowered.

Two, SS in not fully balanced on rage. SS has a quick recharge power as it's first power, and lacks a third tier attack on a 10-12 second timer. Other sets with a 2-3 second at the start tend to have more quick recharging attacks to build an attack chain sooner. Really looking at the numbers SS actually does fall in line with most brute attack formulas before Rage, which makes me think rage is overpowered before double stacking.


Three Footstomp is overpowered, it doesn't follow the aoe attack formula. It's radius is out of proportion.

I also disagree that it is fine as is. Rage needs to lose the -defense.

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QR

Here's a serious question.

What makes Rage overpowered?

I think it would be interesting to see why Rage is OP based on math and stats rather then from random guesses.

I don't care if Rage is nerfed or not, but I would like to see a good discussion about the power.

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When compared to the next comparable power, not considering sets, it is way overpowered. 120 seconds of 20% tohit, and 80% damage increase with a recharge that is easily stacked to eliminate penalties. When build up does 20% tohit, and 80% damage for 10 seconds, and is impossible to stack.

Really for me it is the stacking that makes it overpowered, since if it didn't stack you got hit with -damage, -end, and currently -def. Though that is considering SS weaker first few powers.

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Why does Blizzard disappear if the caster gets defeated while it's raining down?

This is so not fair!

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it does seems a little off that things like blizzard, caltrops, gun drone etc vanish if you die while npc ones dont

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But shouldn't the NPC versions disappear when their target dies? At least that is how the MM minion version works, when the Jounin use caltrops once that enemy dies they disappear as well.

Yeah it just hit teast a few days ago.

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat....part=1&vc=1

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I'm pretty sure SS will be nerfed somewhere down the line. Hell, a nerf even made it to test once, although the outcry was so big Castle ended up actually buffing SS.

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It wasn't quite a nerf. It was part of tweaking it, and happened the same time that they took the affect self part a way. Castle had tried exchanging the -def for -recovery, which I agree was too much with the -end. I am also sure rage will be looked at again. Especially since Castle doesn't like the -def portion of it, and double stacked rage is a bit too strong. I could also see some changes to footstomp, more likely in the radius.

So how does flight allow something to walk right through a mountain or building? When a bug flies into my windshield it goes splat, and my windshield is a hell of a lot weaker then either a mountain or building.

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And again you mistake style for substance.
No one has suggested anything about power level, only the depiction of the powers.


Superman has super strength and invulnerability. That means he's a Tanker, since that's the only class that allows that combination.

(I have to laugh at this thread, it's going just everywhere...)

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Actually the only AT that can be SS/inv are brutes.


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The only one in that group that is close to a CoH tanker would be Wonder Woman. I'd put her down as a WP/SS tanker

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Should she have some shield in there as well?

Actually blizzard going away when you die make sense. You are no longer there to control and direct it, so it dissipates. The same could be said about sleet and freezing rain. Though I see your point on oil slick.

BTW, Lightning rod is limited to 400% damage because it is a pet.

Yes leadership applies to pets as well. As far as biggest return, it depends on your primary/secondary powers Maneuvers is great stacked with other defense powers, but you get more then a couple of FF or trap mm's and you won't notice the difference. It really is the most shippable of the first 3 leadership powers.

Assault and tactics stack really well. Unless you have a someone capping your damage 8 assaults is a nice damage boost. The same with tohit, I really can't have enough, especially when an AV pops their god mode.

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Idk, between the redraw from DP attacks to martial arts attacks, and then the redraw from whatever secondary you use....that might be a bit much.

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They could do it without redraw from the secondary. Might require some animation work, but thematically it works since they would be from the same set. It is also not that I would expect them to do this, but it is the right choice for dom's to have a pistol assault set.

They just need to mix dual pistols with martial arts. Then watch as the dom population swells and becomes the new FOTM.

Not that I wouldn't mind blizzard lasting if I die, but there are other factors. Is it fair blizzard does blaster damage, and is it fair that blizzard get scourge checks from it's own damage? I would rather they leave blizzard alone rather then actually make it fair.

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Where are you getting this from? Neither CoD or Mids show any differentg between the two nor does it make sense. A single target taunt is basically just a ranged attack.

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Actually CoD does show a difference.

brute
scrapper
Tanker

If you you at the area of effect on the left side you see brutes and scrappers have an effect of character. Tankers on the other hand have sphere, with a radius of 9 feet and max target 5.

I also stand corrected on those 3 powers, but that does not give scrappers taunt auras like the rest. It gives three sets a taunt aura. It is not like any set has a taunt aura in a self only SR ability, or 3 taunt auras in dark aura like tankers.

Also if pets a peeling aggro off a tank, then doesn't that counter your point of MM's not have the aggro control needed to tank?

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The consensus here appears to be that Brutes are essentially Scrappers and Masterminds are supposed to be the Tankers, but when I actually play red side, I've never encountered a team where the Mastermind was expected to Tank. Teams ALWAYS look to the Brute. Even when I explain I'm damage dealer, I STILL wind up taking point.

The Devs gave us Taunt Auras, like Tankers and Scrappers.
The Devs gave us Taunt, like Tankers and Scrappers.
The Devs gave us Gauntlet in our attacks, like Tankers.
The Devs failed to give Masterminds a tool to control their Aggro themselves.
The Devs failed to give Brutes the tools to survive the Aggro they gather using SOs and their armors, alone.

What gives?

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Not quite, we have taunt auras like tanks, but not scrappers. Scrapers draw aggro just from the damage. Brutes and tankers actually have a taunt component. Also brute SR has a taunt aura in evasion, but the scrapper version doesn't.

Our taunt is again like tankers, but not scrappers. Scrappers is only single target.

Brutes don't have gauntlet, we have punchvoke. What we hit we taunt, what tankers hit gets the attention of enemies around the target as well.

Brutes have the ability to survive what aggro they draw. Solo this game is easy for brutes. Teamed Brutes have the same caps as Tankers, so if you are supporting the team as a tank, then they can support your as well.

Masterminds are tanks in the sense of survivability. When they were originally called the tank of CoV they didn't have bodyguard. The idea was to have a minion or two take the alpha then your team wipes out the spawn. As already mentioned this didn't work, for one MM's didn't want to have to resummon every spawn. Then they got bodyguard, which makes a MM the highest HP AT in the game. Then when played well with the right pools they can make good aggro soakers.

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I agree, some sets are easier to do this for than others. However, these sets were recently given ranged attacks in the MA. Granted, they're not great in many cases, but they are something to start with, at least. As you say, the weapon sets are the hardest to come up with something for. In my opinion, it just requires a little imagination.



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This is a horrible example to use. Some of the ranged attacks actual make some of those critters ridiculous. I would not be looking at custom critters for examples of balance.

And yes BALANCE trumps imagination. Sorry.

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Agreed, you can't base things on critters in MA. They need to give them range attacks to counter the games AI. When hover makes the enemy completely inept something is wrong.

As far as adding range attacks, I would rather they add them to the travel pools. It would be possible to add another first tier power, like they did for epic pools. Flight could have mini-gust that sends out a mini tornado that works like lift. Speed could have kinetic push, where you build kinetic energy with your hand and send it out, which would work like energy blast. Jumping, I am not sure maybe something more natural like pulling a pistol, and TP I think should be added to tp foe, where you bring them to you and punch them as they appear.

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Sarrate: Your chart is inaccurate. EQ reached over 500,000 in 2001, and as far as I know (meaning I've never heard of a press release to the contrary) FFXI never surpassed EQ's prime. Also, with regards to EQ vs. EQ2, you do realize you're talking about MMOs that are either over or just under a decade in existence?

Since EQ2 has been the only MMO sequel to another MMO, I can see why you would judge sequels as being "bad" however keep in mind that an MMO should be judged on its own merits rather than on what the next one has done. EQ2 "failed" to exceed EQ for a number of reasons which are too numerous and not salient to the point at hand, but one of those reason was *not* because it was a sequel.

CoH (and any MMO) that stands the test of time, needs to continually update. At some point, it needs to be rewritten. From a business model perspective it makes more financial sense to do this as a new release.

Incidentally if CoH2 were ever made, allowing existing characters from CoH to be imported into the new game would excise much of the debate of split populations, not to mention guarantee your new release a solid player base at release. Something I think EQ2 should have done has the game been approached differently.

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some of the reasons that made everquest2 fail (a bad launch WILL doom an mmorpg) were:

1) forced grouping for everything. at the time it launched mmorpg's were moving from niche to more mainstream, and soloing was preferred. they were behind the times.

2) graphics - MOST mmorpg'ers machines couldnt handle the game. it's still to this day a resource hog graphically. oddly, isnt that what the whiner wants coh to do? drastic graphical update?

those two facts kept people away for the first year and a half. it's a good game now, but if an mmorpg doesnt start out the gate good people generally wont give it a second look.

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I disagree, as a EQ2 release player. Grouping was encouraged, but soloing was possible. I had no problem soloing on melees, casters, or tanks. I also remember them making group mobs tougher after launch. Now they did make it easier to solo, but it was still solo friendly to begin with.


Graphics wise you have a point, though I didn't find them that high, others did. Though it was not as bad as people say, I found CoX to be harder on my graphics card then EQ2 was.


I would say the bad start hurt it worst then your 2 points. EQ2 on release was the most laggy game I have played. It was almost impossible to travel Qeynos, and outside while better still could freeze for a minute. Then there was it's competition, WoW did most things EQ2 did better.

Weak, here are some real pirates.

That may not be the mods fault. When they delete a post any post that was a reply to that post or further down the chain of replies gets wiped as well.

So even if someone did a quick reply on topic, if it was attached to the string of posts it goes a way to.

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The Fighting pool is not martial arts. Nor is Energy Melee. Armored looking costume parts do not an armored hero make.

Those are no more realizations of the examples given than Invulnerability was for will power characters or a single katana was for Dual Blades.

Nor is the pistol temp power for the upcomming Dual Pistol power set.

As always, you fail.


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That is funny, you asked for a brawler not a martial artist. I guess since you have no clue what you even posted you fail. Also since blasters do get protection they are armored.


I also noticed you have yet to post any of your ideas most people agree with, and only resort to trying to make other look wrong. You are pathetic, and no longer need replying to, since you are just a baby troll, crying because they don't get their own way.

I can make a brawler with sonic powers(sonic/energy blapper) and an armored hero with energy blasts(energy/whatever blaster). I can't the other two, but I haven't seen them in previews for CO either, in fact I have only seen the armor energy blast guy.


The devs also have done stuff to improve the game, we just had shields, willpower, and dual blades added. As far as changing the whole system, do you even know what you are asking? They can not change everything the way you want it, not just because it is impracticable, but because others do not want them to. There is also nothing the Devs can do to to keep other games from being appealing, new games come out all the time, people come and go, and if the devs spent all their time trying to match what the new guy has then we would have a worst game overall. CoX will always be a day late and dollar short, and just look like they are copying everyone to bring in nothing.

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Tankers can't be balanced to your vision within a vacuum, no matter how much you post to the contrary.


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And yet when I propose suggestions on how to achieve this, most people agree that the suggestions are not unreasonable or not worth exploring.

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Incidentally, of what I know of CO, it will not be the life changing event that you think it will.

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At least with CO we have someone attemping a more open and improved power/character creation system. That's more than you can say for CoX's current devs who ignore the problems and limitations of their system and are making little or no effort to improve it.


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You sure, I haven't seen any where that most people agree with your ideas, though I haven't seen much of your opinion. Just that you want tanks to be high survivability and high damage like in comics. Which won't work in a MMO.


Just a warning on CO, this limited system you are complaining about was designed by the same people making CO. Don't be surprised when you can't make your superman clone there either.

Yeah people get caught up on the name city of villains to much,especially since they have already announce side switching, and at the same time have no clue about how they are talking about. As I said in the last thread, Batman is based on a villain, he used to shoot people with guns to kill/maim them. Even in modern incarnation he is a anti-hero, after all what hero tortures people to get information. If people insist that just because stalkers are villains because they come from the Rogue Isle, then they really need to look at Batman more closely, after all he breaks more laws then my stalker does.

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... which could all be fixed if NCSoft would just get over themselves and change KB to KD, or give us enhancements to do it ourselves. And then it would go from being a counter-productive powerset to being one to rival fire, and all those pretty graphics and animations wouldn't be going to waste.

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This right here ^^, KB is good for solo blaster that want to keep the enemy at range, however, most blaster secondaries require you to be in melee range. As for corrs, personally I know I am not a good support character tried defenders and corrs and I am just not good with them but I could see how that KB could be a problem like with /rad a lot of those debuffs require the foes to be grouped, kinda defeating the purpose if you are knocking them all away. Honestly though I think KD would make the set a lot better for all ATs that have the set. You can enhance it and turn it into KB if you want to.

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Couldn't disagree more.

The correct answer isn't to dumb down a powerset's secondary effect completely, removing usefulness for solo play just because some lesser skilled players can't make it useful in every situation.

I soloed over 80 levels in Energy Blast on a Blaster, and LOVED every minute of my KB, really helped my survivability.

The fix is this:

Lower the KB, so that if you're teaming (hunting +4s for example) you're doing KD instead of KB.

If you're soloing, and hunting even-con, or +1s/+2s, you're still able to get KB (players can "fine tune" this with a KB enhancement for example).

Not everyone groups exclusively (ok, maybe the "plz PL m3h!" crowd), so don't change the powerset in a way that would negatively effect the soloist, or someone who plays both ways. There should be a way to manipulate the level of KB to convert it to KD if the "con of the spawn" is high enough level.

My two pyreal . **shrug**

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It is actually easier, just change the aoe's to knock down. There is little problem with single target knock back. When that happens the blaster/corruptor kill it quickly anyways. Also if the aoe's were knock down, then it increases the energy users aoe damage since they are still grouped.