Deus_Otiosus

A WP Brute that has any kind of decent large AoE attack (SS, FM) or multiple AoEs like DB will have no problems aggroing the majority of a spawn.

That's typically true, but the IDF/Warworks have a high amount of pure energy based attacks.

Imperial Defense Force

If you go through that list, you'll see that all (or almost all) of the Ranged Energy attacks are all pure Energy.

They apply to the league, but my point was that Barrier will make your entire league suddenly invincible.

Neither Clarion nor Ageless have that level of "saving the day" in terms of their effects.

Rebirth comes close, but I think Barrier is the stronger choice when considering Squishier league members and their general lack of resistances and lesser overall benefit from % based regen. With barrier they get both the DEF to avoid nearly all incoming attacks as well as the resistance to reduce any attacks that actually get through.


I agree.


In general, yeah you would always want a 30% damage buff.

But its not a 30% damage buff in a vacuum.

Its a 30% damage buff at the sacrifice of more potential overall resistance, endurance efficiency and the sacrifice of what is effectively a godmode power vs. an endurance recovery tool.


As Werner already mentioned, the DEF from Barrier works in a similar fashion to protect you the way DDR would.




Yeah, it protects you vs. all kinds of debuffs and that is nice about it.

Although for any buffs that actually have to hit you to function, Barrier is nearly as effective IMO.




I tend to play Brutes more than Scrappers, and I tend to hold aggro for others more often than not (if I'm not holding aggro for others, it means I'm alone ), so for me barrier is an addition to my arsenal of large oranges & purples.

From a Scrapper perspective, you might be right. You might just be better off loading up on those, popping when needed and getting the most out of musculature.


Right before Marauder punches my big brutin' face in.


The rest of your points make a good case, I don't disagree with them overall.


To be perfectly honest, I'm not really in the boat of choosing a single T4 Destiny for my characters, and most of my "main stable" have 2 T4s (Barrier/Rebirth for my Brutes & Scrappers, Rebirth/Ageless for my NW & Clarion/Rebirth for my Corr - all of them switch to Rebirth for KIR) and i tend to swap as needed.


I don't look at large inspirations as a way to do what Barrier does, I look at them as something to cycle in between usage of Barrier, Archmage/Demonic, SoW, OWTS, Self heals, Etc.


Having Barrier generally means I can save all of those large insps for the big fights for spike survivability, rather than use them on a consistent basis to keep me going.

I think Musculature + Ageless is a decent option, but I don't agree that Ageless is the best choice for DA.

I'll cover why below.


Here's the problem with that.

Ageless' recharge is a nice back end boost of 10%.

The other part is an upfront boost that is like a super Force Feedback proc.

Except I have the forcefeedback proc, and once you already have a high end build, its pretty much just a little bit of gravy on top as opposed to any significant benefit.

The other option, Debuff resistance, let's look at what it does.

Ageless Radial Epiphany: +100% end, +70% rech first 10s, 30% next 20s, 20% next 30s, 10% last 60s (120s total), +85% debuff RES first 22.5s, 42.5% next 22.5s, 21.25% last 45s (90s total), 60ft radius

First, the debuff Res only lasts 90s.

Second, you get an up front 22.5s of 85%

Then 22.5s of 42.5%.

Beyond that it's an irrelevant amount.

22% Debuff RES vs. any significant Debuff threat (like Cimerorans or -Regen situations) is not going to do anything for you.

You might try to disagree here, but try playing an SD without HOs in Active D and see how far that gets you against Cimeroran Def Debuffs (They will cause cascading def failure easily, even vs. 50% DDR)



The first chunk, 85%, is great.

But is it really greater than suddenly having 90% RES/DEF to all damage types ... for an entire league?

I don't think so.

For one thing, as DA you already have little to fear from END drain.

Once you have that covered, I can't think of any situations where I would rather have 85% debuff resistance for 20s, vs basically being invincible for 30s.

Even the second phase of 30 DEF/RES for 20s for Barrier is huge for DA which has Dark Regen and high enough resistances to be capped vs. SM/L Res.



You can be at negative 45% defense or resistance or both, and one application of barrier will suddenly see you DEF capped and capped or nearly capped RES.

On top of that, you get a back end buff of 5% DEF and 5% Res.

Combined with Cardiac, a DA scrapper is looking at a 10% overall improvement to SM/L Resistance if you assume something like 4 Reactive Armor Pieces - plus almost as much defense as Weave.


I think Musc + Ageless is a fine combination if you are going for the ultimate pylon time, or you play a build like Elm/SD which is really amazing with Musc.

Otherwise I would go with Cardiac + Barrier for DA.

It took a full IO build before my SS/SD/Soul wasn't a constant sweat fest of "will I detoggle??" due to AD going off, Rage Crashes, Hasten and Foot Stomping like it's free.


It took cardiac for the build to feel effortless.


SD on its own, compares well vs. Invuln & SR for end usage.

SS is the blue-drinking behemoth.

I agree with everything you said except for SD being on the heavy side of END use.

Instead I would say it simply lacks any kind of END recovery benefit, which is something that makes SS a much smoother play experience.

I like the following for X/FA:

• Alpha = Cardiac
• Interface = Reactive
• Judgement = Anything but Cryonic. I like Void Radial for the -Damage debuff to enemies
• Destiny = Barrier for FA, Rebirth is a great choice as well
• Lore = Personal Preference Here is a list of Lore Pet DPS, it doesn't take into consideration AoE attacks of the various pets nor does it make any distinction between ranged & melee. It only covers the Core line, which is damage focused.

FE no longer works like that, it was changed.

FE does not care what kind of damage the attack does and provides a single damage benefit for all powers you use while it is active.

You do not want the cone.

Gloom, Dark Oblit and Darkest Night are the prime choices in soul.


I prefer Soul & Mu myself depending on builds needs as I usually do not have the spare power choice to waste on Char or Fire Ring.

At that point, I would just make a Brute.

You lose out on the better damage from DB, but you fill the role of holding aggro better.

You're still a damage dealer, and instead of using up a power pool you will pretty much just hold aggro by attacking stuff and worse comes to worse, you can grab Taunt.

What is your character's concept?

I agree with most of what you said before this.

DEF toons are fine.

They sit at the normal softcap to begin with, and only need to pop 1 luck to suddenly be softcapped again.

On top of this, they can be running Rebirth for perpetual extra regen+self heal as needed or pop barrier for instant invincibility.

Not to mention that Brutes who take gloom also have access to Darkest Night.

45% Def + -14% To Hit (slotted w/ two Enzymes) = Incarnate Softcap



My NW has no issues soloing crates/containers on the split phase of Lambda and has much less HP than either a Claws/SR Scrapper or Brute, and does not have aid self. This is on a build that is not currently incarnate softcapped as recharge was the original focus.

Technically, according to Johnny's Fallacy where Brutes and Scrappers are perpetually perma-defense capped, perma-res capped and perma-damage capped FA & SD Tankers are clearly the supreme powersets for the Tanker as they do more damage and are equally as survivable as an Invuln or Stone.

I mean, FA is always capped at 3500 HP & 90% resistance to all right?

I'll send a PM to continue the discussion.

Trying not to derail the thread too much

But you do keep making claims.

You repeatedly enter threads and say things like how much of BEAST this is or how much better Brutes are.


Except I have a Claws/Invuln Brute. I have one that is not too dissimilar to the one you've posted and I don't think its as good as you are making it out to be.

Its solid, but I don't think I would rave about its performance either.



When people say Brutes are beasts, the expected notion is that it is doing near Scrapper Damage with Tanker Survivability.

I think your build looks very survivable, but I don't think it looks like it will be doing a lot of damage. And it certainly isn't as survivable as an Invuln Tanker.


Dull Pain in your build is not perma, even with Hasten Running.


You have 2950 or so Hp which is very respectable, but an Invuln Tanker can hit 3500 (as a note, I find it difficult to hit more than 3K on an Invuln Brute and meet rech and def requirements, so I think your build did well on the HP front).



The tanker has higher resistances, will be capped vs. SM/L damage res and can get to 3500 HP.

Without at least some math, or better yet an actual pylon test, how do you know you are doing Scrapper Damage?



That's because he wants to keep his mitigation advantage while constantly outright lying about how useful it is.



I like spin.

But I find a single 8ft radius PBAoE to be of limited use at the endgame.

Large/Oversized enemies, ranged mobs that don't enter melee, Friendly Fire KB, and stuff simply being dead before you can use more than one AoE are all factors that make spin not nearly as effective as it would be in the AE or even in a solo mission.


Spin is amazing, but you rarely get the chance on a fast moving team to just stand there saturated in mobs and Spin > Spin > Spin.




The thread has derailed quite a bit, that's true.

However Mauk's build IS about Tankers.


Johnny keeps spouting, endlessly, his nonsense point about Brutes "only having 10% less max HP"


He likes to say that because it makes all brutes sound much more resilient than they are. Its his way of constantly twisting information to suit his agenda.

When the reality is only Stone and Invuln (and eventually regen most likely) can currently even get to the Brute HP cap, and that will require some heavy build sacrifices that are not as dramatic or even required on the Tanker.




Look at Mauk's Build.

He has focused on high softcapped defenses, has a good deal of +HP bonuses and yet has 2950 HP or so vs. Tanker Invuln builds that can sit at 3500 and he sacrificed a fair amount of recharge as well as 2 AoE attacks to get there (Which is a decrease in offense).

This is not the "only 10% less max HP" that Johnny keeps ranting about.

It also ignores, repeatedly, the inconveniently significant Base Defense and Base Resistance advantages of the tanker.

An solid Invuln Tanker build can get to 90% SM/L Res, and sit 3500 HP with DP running.

Its also easier to get DP perma, as Tankers have more starting DEF to work off of to hit softcap and can focus on more Rech, as well as +HP bonuses to help them cap.

People keep saying how amazing Brute Claws is.


And yet I see no top Pylon times with Brute Claws.



So show me proof.

If its very important to you, grab confront.

Honestly, you need to talk tactics with your friend.

She should not be tossing AoEs onto enemies that you haven't already engaged with.

Or a Brute's.

Now make a list of the number of Brute secondary power sets that can permanently sit close to their Max HP cap on their own.

Hint: Only 2 of them out of a total of 9.

That was my exact experience, same build and all.

It was actually my first character, now long abandoned.

I think you're just getting too caught up on the name's of powers, SOs and IO sets.

No one will ever see your IO sets or your SO names, they can only see the bonuses listed.

As for Focused Accuracy, as you can slot GSFC in Rage I implore you to drop Focused Accuracy.

SS/SD is endurance heavy, so you shouldn't be running this, and you certainly wont need any more To Hit or Accuracy bonuses with Rage.



If you want to play on SOs due to cost or personal preference, that's fine.

You will obviously perform much, much better on IO sets - even just franken slotting.

Then we're finally even.

Since I've had you pegged for exactly what you are long before today ever happened.

And blasters have more melee attacks in their primary to slot valuable Kinetic Combats.

My Corr uses his debuffs primarily to do damage on lambda. More damage which the Blaster already has.


I'm about to blow your mind with a radical concept.

Everyone who wants to be survivable...needs to go for survivability.


Mind = BLOWN.



I take it your assessment is based on your experience as a master baiter.



That's too easy...

• You don't need 4 slots in Weave & Heightened Senses. The DEF/END/RECH pieces are giving you very little return and you don't need the Global Accuracy as SS.
• Quick Recovery is under slotted in favor of heavily slotting Stamina. QR is superior, slot it accordingly.
• Physical Perfection's slotting is giving you a grand total of 5 extra HP per second regen.
• I don't think you need all 3 slots of Rectified. You wanted the regen bonus but it amounts to 1 HP per second. So you are spending a valuable build slot, for 1 HP per second.

Take the slots from Weave & Heightened Senses and put them into hasten.

That I agree with.

Even if they have to get toned down a touch, the crashes need to go.

I love Psychic Wail on my Fort, more Nukes need to function like that as opposed to the way they do now.