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Deus_Otiosus

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  1. Deus_Otiosus
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex View Post
    (although and again, Defenders/Controllers/Corruptors aren't limited from stacking).

    They are however, limited in their ability to mitigate punishment.

    I think its a very important distinction.

    Your idea on increasing other peoples target caps is interesting though.


    My concern is this.

    Once you have enough support, you are basically set.

    Support in force, is obviously the most powerful thing in the game (support individually leads to us calling them squishies).

    Now, going into incarnate trials - you could take some melee ATs who deal damage, or you could take the toughest AT available who is also a force multiplier and allows the rest of the league to deal even more damage.


    Which do you choose, given the choice?
  2. Deus_Otiosus
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ultimus View Post
    To be honest the reason people say this is because once you reach a certain level of mitigation it becomes God Mode. So once you have this mitigation more mitigation on top of it is not perceived as worthwhile.
    Its not perceived as worthwhile, that's a perception issue.

    Incarnate trials have worked hard to inflict punishment on players, and I think is definitely space there for the Tankers better mitigation to shine.

    And people can think its worthless all they want, but asking for damage buffs without realistically looking at how powerful the base mitigation is, and how much that adds when you are making the build in the first place is, imo, not even remotely realistic.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ultimus View Post
    The best example I can think of would be a player standing against an AV or group of enemies. Lets say the group of enemies deal 100 DPS and the player's total amount of regen + defense + resist = 110 HPS meaning there is a surplus of 10 HPS. The player won't die because the group or AV cannot out damage the player's effective regeneration in combination with Def and res.

    A Tanker's total HPS in the above scenario may be 150 HPS with a surplus of 50 HPS. So yes its superior to the Scrapper and Brute but the issue is God Mode is God Mode either way.
    That doesn't change the fact that the mitigation is already there.


    If the mitigation is irrelevant beyond a certain point, than how much are tankers willing to give up for more damage?

    If it is not irrelevant, well then why are people asking for even more in this thread?


    Even tanker players cant seem to decide if they have too much or not enough mitigation. This entire thread constantly flops back and forth between those extremes.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Redoptic View Post
    You made this point 19 posts ago, honestly if I were to search your post history and display the results the term broken record might not sum it up succinctly.
    Apparently it hasn't caught hold yet, since people keep posting how Tanker mitigation is both simultaneously irrelevant and not worth the lower offense as well as insufficient and Tankers should have even better mitigation.


    So which is it, which one do you subscribe to?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Redoptic View Post
    Final word, JB in comparison has offered more constructive substance per % of posts in this thread, that would startle an atheist into the arms of religion.

    I see him posting more of the same:

    • Hand wavium of Tanker mitigation numbers by using unrealistic perma buffed res caps to make Brutes fit into his view of the game.
    • Tankers deserve more damage due to that, and his idea of Tankers from comic books.
  3. Deus_Otiosus
    Welcome Freems and Preems!

    This is a positive development.
  4. Deus_Otiosus
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by KnightofKhonsu View Post
    I
    I think we all can agree that a Tanker's ability to deliver damage compared to a scrapper or brute is seriously lacking without them
    They're not intended to ever come close to Scrappers or Brutes in damage dealing because Tankers are not designed as high end damage dealers.

    Contrary to popular belief, neither Scrappers nor Brutes can attain Tanker mitigation levels.


    If you want to deal high damage, choose a damage dealer.
  5. Deus_Otiosus
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane View Post
    IOs and the Incarnate system "don't count" when it comes to AT issues.
    That's the excuse Brute boosters have been regurgitating for years.
    It's bogus shield they hide behind so they can keep being utterly broken.

    It ignores the fact of what happens when you balance damage against survivability, but allow Brutes and Scrappers, who have the survivability bar pretty high to begin with compared to other ATs, to gain more survivability via IOs


    You mean like your argument ignores what kind of survivability Tankers are capable of with IOs?

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    With OWTS running




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    Good luck getting that much survivability on a Brute or Scrapper (hint: you can't)

    In fact you can't even get that much Recharge and be softcapped without taking manuevers. Even then its a stretch, and you certainly don't have space for all of the +HP bonuses.

    Not good enough? Let me know so I can build you an incarnate softcapped version and I'll let you try to match it with a Brute or Scrapper.




    This is where you dodge the Tanker's higher survivability numbers, or pretend they are irrelevant, or hide behind your fantasy scenario of perma-buffed to the caps gameplay that I have never seen in over 1300 incarnate trials.

    BAF, Lambda, UG, Keyes, TPN, MoM; I run them all.

    How many trials have you run?
  6. Deus_Otiosus
    If you want a "tough" build that you could put together very cheaply, you could do Katana, Titan Weapons or Broad Sword with either Invuln or WP.



    You won't necessarily be softcapped to all types, but neither Invuln nor WP require being softcapped to be fairly tough overall.
  7. Deus_Otiosus
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JayboH View Post
    I apologize as I haven't read this massive thread, but how unreasonable would it be if EVERY attack had the bruising effect, including AOEs?

    It doesn't stack on enemies, so it wouldn't be OP, but, I don't know if that would really fix the AT. Personally I don't think tankers are really in that bad of shape - yeah, I wish they did more damage, of course - especially ice melee - man do I feel weak with that set.

    It would be extremely unreasonable.

    Take a look at what it takes for a Corr, MM or Controller to put out -20% Resistance on a target.

    AoE powers that do that are generally expensive toggles or long recharge powers, and if you scroll up thread you can see where I posted Castle's ideas for Bruising and why they specifically did not add bruising to the powers like you're asking.
  8. Deus_Otiosus
    Some different slotting ideas.

    I put L50 Res IOs into True Grit and Deflection, they're optional.

    I wanted to slot them with 3 piece Aegis or Titaniums, but the slots just weren't there.

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  9. Deus_Otiosus
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Death_Adder View Post
    Eh. I can see the draw of the taunt set, but I still think it's a mistake. Agility will buff the end mod of power sink enough that with heavy slotting it can completely drain a mob in one hit. At the same time agility will add enough defense to maneuvers, weave, and combat jumping to cover the loss of the 2.5 def bonus, while giving a recharge bonus.
    Agility is definitely a viable choice, but I prefer Spiritual to boost Energzie (both the heal/regen and recharge of it).

    I think Agility will only work out to 2% defene.
  10. Deus_Otiosus
    Here's an idea for some slotting changes, as well as some better power choices (you definitely want slash, lightning reflexes and you really don't need Dark Obliteration)


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  11. Deus_Otiosus
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by KnightofKhonsu View Post
    A ton of ideas and a lot of reading. Good job so far.

    Now for my 2 cents...

    Mine is simple.

    1. Raise tankers damage potential to equal a brute (without rage).

    2. Increase taunt cap to 25.

    3. Give a tanker's gauntlet power a power bar that increases with the amount of damage he and or the team receive damage that would give the following buffs.

    a. +Def increase % for tanker and for each team member within the tanker's taunt aura range.
    b. Tanker's hit points increase in a simliar manner to a brute's damage via rage increasing his taunting aura range by 50%. This would make the tanker the greater threat.
    c. Tanker's taunting aura causes -to hit for all foes in range of the tanker and those team members in the tanker's taunt range.

    You forgot #4 in your list of overpowered stuff.


    4) Delete Brutes and Scrappers as they no longer have a reason to exist.
  12. Deus_Otiosus
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Acemace View Post
    Some others mentioned pyre mastery and it's a good choice, my fire tanks got fire blast 3slotted and fireball 6'd, in addition to the vet reward nemesis staff and black wand the tank can go from up close melee to ranged character seamlessly.
    It's a worthwhile path to take with your tanks build plans.
    Unfortunately you can't use either of those Vet attacks during the MoM trial (or any Trial).
  13. Deus_Otiosus
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Snow Globe View Post
    Let's see, for one run:

    Sight Beyond Sight: Yes, had 4 of them.
    Furious Rage: Yes, had 6 of them.
    Amazing Luck and Resistant: Yes, 2 each.
    Back in the Fight: 2.
    Liberate: N/A as I wasn't held, though I think I had 2.
    Immortal Recovery: 2.
    Ultimates: 2. Note: You can only use 1 of these at a time.
    Mission set to -1: Yes.
    Envenomed Dagger: Yes.

    Was I able to kill the clones fast enough? No. Was I able to damage Trapdoor fast enough: no.


    You can only have 1 shift from Ultimate inspirations at any one time. The game prevents you from using a second one while the first is active.

    I think I had to finally get Shivans in addition to the above to actually succeed with that character. The next step for that character would have been getting the Warburg Rockets.
    This was a Fire/Kin Controller?

    I realize you are a bit lower on ST than most other ATs, but with Imps, kin buffs and T4 insps this should be completely doable.

    I've solod the arc on a Fire/Kin corr on SOs with and a tray full of T1 insps. The corr is a different animal, but I'm still kind of stunned at a Fire/Kin Controller not being able to do it.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
    Its not that simple. Even in the hypothetical case where people liked the trials more than the solo path, there is still the unavoidable situation where the solo path acts to break up the critical mass of players queuing to do a trial (and by queuing I mean waiting for one, in or out of the turnstile).
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
    More specifically, people waiting for Leagueville can always decide to leave for Solotown, but the reverse is never true. So there is an asymmetry in terms of which activity can steal players from the other that is independent of preference.

    I have a different perspective.

    Right now most leagues form in the RWZ (Virtue) and PD (Freedom), and they are primarily preformed leagues.

    Soon we will have an open zone, with nothing but Incarnate level content.

    This will be the go-to zone for incarnates.


    You can hang out here, even in a group, street sweep on teams and wait for trials to form.

    You will probably be able to run solo mishes during lulls when a league has just taken off, and be done before another forms up.


    Solotown is less solotown and more the gathering zone for incarnates that people have been asking for.


    Now we will have a raid launch point that also allows us to kill stuff and earn incarnate components during downtime.
  14. Deus_Otiosus
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
    Absolutely, no way, nein, not going to happen, no no no.
    That's a shame, I'd pay for account wide Accolades.

    I doubt I'm the only one.

    I watched a guy in one of the larger freedom global channels repeatedly offer 100 million per mayhem mission exploration badge.

    100 million each.


    30 minutes after he started broadcasting, no one had yet taken him up on his offer.
  15. Deus_Otiosus
    Either of those two MMs with level shifts and lore pets will completely dominate a door, or even a whole walkway.

    Some other options that you don't have listed:

    - Pet heavy crab builds
    - High rech Dominators with good ST damage (like Fire Assault)
    - Corrs with decent control or slow patches +high ST primary - ex: Fire/Dark, Fire/Time, Fire/Cold
  16. Deus_Otiosus
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Snow Globe View Post
    Not naming names, but one of the developers responsible of the later trials IS a long time player that DOES min-max his builds. Additionally a lot of players in the Issue 20 Closed Beta also fall into the category of being "min-maxers". Guess what? A large portion of this game's players aren't min-maxers, and to treat them as such is a good way to alienate those players.
    While you're still posting in this thread, maybe you could take a look at post #183.
  17. Deus_Otiosus
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion View Post
    I'm a little lost. When Arcanaville said Softcap Willpower I assumed he was talking about defense to 45%, not HP. Maybe I need more coffee.
    She, not he.

    And yes, she was talking about 45% Defense softcap.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion View Post
    Someone told me later I got lucky, explained the percentages and his higher than softcap attacks in that Task Force. I believe them, but still. That tank never fell. It was the easiest CoH gameplay experience I have ever had, and i was always smack dab in the thick of the worst combats.

    1) The reason you did not die is unoikely to be the result of softcapped defenses on their own.

    2) The reason you did not die is most likely because of WP's combination of Defenses, Resistances, high HP pool and high regeneration.

    3) Reason #2 is why people that think softcapped defense = tanker level mitigation are completely wrong and just come off sounding ridiculous.

    4) Its extremely unlikely you could ever pull of the same feat with a Brute or Scrapper version of that build and not die.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
    Based on my experience I would not even try to maximize a Willpower Tank's health. You really only need that x% more health if you ever get hit significantly...
    No, more health = more regen = more survivability.

    Using easy numbers, if you have 45% Defenses and mobs only have a 5% chance to hit you that doesn't mean they will never hit you.

    They will hit you, and when you get hit you want more HP, especially as a WP anything.



    That build that Stratonexus posted, by Iggy, will have an amazing level of survivability due to the combination of DEF, HP, Res and Regen. With him having built specifically for DEF and HP.

    On a WP Tanker my first priority would be defenses and then maximizing HP.


    No Brute or Scrapper WP build has a chance in hell of even coming close to that build.
  18. Deus_Otiosus
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hidbyflames View Post
    Should i take manuvers or cj cant decide which i will benefit from more on a defense stand point please help?
    You should take CJ hands down.


    CJ is a top priority pick.

    It has a negligible endurance cost, a bit of immobilize protection and adds a high level of additional mobility.


    Maneuvers is a special case pick, I would not add this to a Brute build unless you already had both CJ & Weave and had a very specific build plan to softcap and manage the additional endurance use.
  19. Deus_Otiosus
    You could take the Epic/Patron ranged attacks, but that's not really going to be any kind of worthwhile damage output against an AV.


    If you have taunt you can try to pull the AV out of the pink patch, but other than that all you can really do is stand there and wait for the patches.


    It's not the highlight of the trial for me either.
  20. Deus_Otiosus
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Freitag View Post
    Incarnate Trial - TPN Campus
    • Telepathists are now immune to knockback, knockup, repel, and teleport, and highly resistant to intangible (phase).

    While you're busy making them immune to everything, could you maybe look into their ability to debuff def by half just by looking at you?
  21. Deus_Otiosus
  22. Deus_Otiosus

    TW/Elec - weave?

    POST-ACTION

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Infini View Post
    Getting positional defense is more comprehensive than just s/l because positional protects from almost all damage types.
    We know this, but you're talking about 45% SM/L vs. 32.5% M/R/A.

    Is it still more comprehensive? I think it's debatable, considering Ela's other qualities (the entire point of my post, btw)



    Otherwise, feel free to post a Brute Ela build that softcaps all your positional defenses, doesn't gimp slotting on your attacks and has 180% global recharge.
  23. Deus_Otiosus

    TW/Elec - weave?

    POST-ACTION

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Combat View Post
    I should have phrased myself better, I meant that Sm/Le would only protect against attacks with a smashing and lethal component. And going for that type of defense is fine, and great for nearly every character. I just find that I am more survivable and adaptable if I can get to good levels with a parry-style attack.

    Sure, I could get to to 45% sm/le (and probably will on an alternate build), but doing so means I have no protection against most fire, negative energy, and psionic attacks. It also makes DS pretty worthless, which could be a plus because it allows you to skip an attack.
    We're focusing on Ela here, so my comments are directed solely at Ela in terms of SM/L Defense.

    Something to keep in mind is that Fire & Negative energy attacks are very rare, you would also need to specifically be facing attacks without a Smashing/Lethal component (most of the melee based Fire & Negative do have SM or L type as well).

    Psi, with the 40-45% Resistance you will have, would not be a major concern.

    DS being worthless is up for debate, at worst you can leave it with the default slot and stick an LoTG 7.5 in there. You will be hard pressed to get 5 LoTGs in an Ela build even with it, unless you took the Stealth Pool.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Combat View Post
    Ultimately, it is a question of niche survivability and pay-offs elsewhere or all-around survivability with cuts.
    45% DEF to SM/L
    90% Ela Resistance
    40-45% Psi Resitance

    Is one hell of a giant niche. In fact, that covers you vs. most of the endgame.

    It also means 1 luck gets you close to the incarnate softcap vs. SM/L unlike your planned 32.5% which will require two.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Combat View Post
    I personally believe that it is better, for me, to have good surivability against virtually everything.
    The above gives you exactly that.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Combat View Post
    That is why I am planning a build with about 180% global recharge, 27.5% to M/R/A (with barrier making up the missing 5%), and most of the powers from both sets.
    Without slotting any sets for it, CJ, Weave & Maneuvers +Steadfast, Glad Unique and Barrier would see you at 22.5% Psi, Fire & Neg. (10% less than your planned Defenses against R/A)

    Is that one luck away from softcapped vs. those damage types? No.

    On the other hand, Ela has decent Resistances, a Self Heal + Regen from Energize and my opinion that I don't think we face those damage types in massed attacks against us in enough situations to specifically need to defend against them.



    Effectively you are giving up permanent softcap vs. the majority of melee enemies that you will face (SM/L) for the ability to softcap with a luck against those same enemies as well as a handful of enemies that SM/L doesn't cover you against but which you don't really face that often.



    This would be different for say, DA, because DA is somewhat weak vs. Ene damage and Ene damage is one of the more common attack types in the game, as well as in incarnate content.
  24. Deus_Otiosus
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Snow Globe View Post
    A fire/kin controller of mine, with a mix of single origins and generic IOs (okay, one purple set for the immobilize because it was cheap enough at the time) took 3 attempts after Issue 20 to get past Trapdoor. I can't remember if I used Warburg nukes the last time.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Snow Globe
    Others, even loaded with T4 inspirations, multiple temp pets, and Ultimates couldn't get the job done

    Some examples of T4 Inspirations:

    • Sight Beyond Sight:+75% ToHit, +Perception
    • Furious Rage: +100% Damage
    • Amazing Luck: +50% Defense to all attacks (except typeless)
    • Liberate: Resist Effects
      Frees you from many sleep, hold, immobilization, disorient, fear, confuse, and knockback effects and boosts your resistance to repel, taunt and placate effects for 90 seconds. This Inspiration can be used even while under such effects.
      -40 Magnitude protection against Hold, Sleep, Stun, Immobilize, Fear, and Confuse; -20 Magnitude protection against Knockback and Knockup; 100% resistance to Repel; 75% resistance to Taunt and Placate

    So just to confirm, you're saying that with Inspirations like these, +level shifts from Ultimates, temp powers like "warburg nukes" and temp pet powers - that you could not get this arc done as it is currently implemented in the game?
  25. Deus_Otiosus
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by EvilRyu View Post
    Once you look at how things are in the incarnete trials everyone is super squishie there even stone tanks. So why be a tank if your going to die just like a blaster anyways. Thats just my opinion of things.

    Luckily, your opinion has completely deviated from the reality of incarnate trials the rest of us play in.