Wont hurt to have, if you use D Sweep often it would be worth picking up. Your Res will fend of the start of the mob while the building Def with DSweep will help in the long fits, outside of the mobs that make Def Null/Void like Cims!
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Slotting for defense is absolutely worth it, if possible aim for the 45% S/L softcap in some fashion. Layered mitigation will carry you a long way.
If you can afford it, it is good to get AoE and Ranged to 32.5 or 45%. That would allow you to softcap to all with a purple, which would greatly increase the total survivability. Smashing/lethal defense is nice, but has several drawbacks. First, DS will only improve smashing, meaning you will be able to cap against smashing with just it, but will have to get 45% lethal defense on your own, essentially gaining no benefit from DS. Secondly, it will only protect against smashing and lethal, which isn't incredibly versatile. It is easier to build for though.
TW/Elec Optimization
I would build for s/l softcap, then as much recharge as you can get. Ignore e/n defense on an /elec, you get enough energy protection from your shields, and chacnces are you'll get a bit of it from reactives anyway going for s/l defense. +HP/regen isn't really a priority on /elec, since you will be getting a large regen buff constantly from energize.
Elec plays a lot like Fiery Aura except you have more resists, both to s/l and exotic (and capped energy on SOs iirc, my scrapper capped it with DOs because scrappers have lower caps - or close, like 70%, on DOs).
The difference is that you get a recharge bonus passive and you don't need to worry much about making end sustainable builds after 35. And of course you don't get FE and Burn but Lightning Reflexes helps with your offense.
So the slotting recommendation is a bit like FA's, defense and recharge - the heal recharges in 120 seconds instead of 40 tho, but my no-defense SM/elec Brute is plenty tough, a TW with all the mitigation should be able to tank early if you want, mine did on SOs before Energize existed (she also was my only toon that ran out of end with speed boost, and properly slotted with endred, but when I was on tanking duty - it was before GR - I had to spam Fault).
I like adding some Regen and +HP because Energize benefits a lot from it, I also love the god mode, I leave it with 1 rech and it's always ready when I need it, the bummer is retoggling later because the crash has a mini EMP Pulse so it's better than Invul's.
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Reasons to go S/L softcap:|
Originally Posted by Combat
If you can afford it, it is good to get AoE and Ranged to 32.5 or 45%. That would allow you to softcap to all with a purple, which would greatly increase the total survivability. Smashing/lethal defense is nice, but has several drawbacks. First, DS will only improve smashing, meaning you will be able to cap against smashing with just it, but will have to get 45% lethal defense on your own, essentially gaining no benefit from DS. Secondly, it will only protect against smashing and lethal, which isn't incredibly versatile. It is easier to build for though.
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1) It is easier to reach high levels of S/L compared to positionals because you only need 1 type of set bonuses vs 2-3. Kinetic Combats also make it significantly easier. You will have to burn alot more slots trying to get positional softcap compared to S/L softcap and/or not reach 45% softcap.
2) Defensive Sweep doesnt have to be used. Infact if you can softcap without it thats even better, since you don't have to rotate a lower damage attack into your attack chain. Crushing Blow is great for your DPS. I consider Defensive Sweep to be great for leveling, however once you're 50 and all kited out, Crushing Blow is far superior.
3) It doesnt "only" protect you against Smashing and Lethal. Smashing/Lethal defense protects you against everything that has that type of damage in the attack in them, which is alot of attacks. (for example Bone Smasher deals energy and smashing damage, if something hits you with bonesmasher it will check for the highest defense to one of the types you have (melee, energy, or smashing) it doesnt matter if your energy or melee defense is low since it will check off your 45% S/L defense and probably miss) The stuff that gets through S/L defense (psy, electric blast, fire blast (not melee), dark blast (not melee), and radiation blast mainly) you have resistance to in spades sans dark blast, which can be worked around with insps in the occassions it comes up. The other big thing that gets through S/L defense is ranged mezzes, which is one thing to always note when building for S/L on a squishy, but brutes have mez protection, so this is a non issue.
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I should have phrased myself better, I meant that Sm/Le would only protect against attacks with a smashing and lethal component. And going for that type of defense is fine, and great for nearly every character. I just find that I am more survivable and adaptable if I can get to good levels with a parry-style attack. |
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
Reasons to go S/L softcap:
1) It is easier to reach high levels of S/L compared to positionals because you only need 1 type of set bonuses vs 2-3. Kinetic Combats also make it significantly easier. You will have to burn alot more slots trying to get positional softcap compared to S/L softcap and/or not reach 45% softcap. 2) Defensive Sweep doesnt have to be used. Infact if you can softcap without it thats even better, since you don't have to rotate a lower damage attack into your attack chain. Crushing Blow is great for your DPS. I consider Defensive Sweep to be great for leveling, however once you're 50 and all kited out, Crushing Blow is far superior. 3) It doesnt "only" protect you against Smashing and Lethal. Smashing/Lethal defense protects you against everything that has that type of damage in the attack in them, which is alot of attacks. (for example Bone Smasher deals energy and smashing damage, if something hits you with bonesmasher it will check for the highest defense to one of the types you have (melee, energy, or smashing) it doesnt matter if your energy or melee defense is low since it will check off your 45% S/L defense and probably miss) The stuff that gets through S/L defense (psy, electric blast, fire blast (not melee), dark blast (not melee), and radiation blast mainly) you have resistance to in spades sans dark blast, which can be worked around with insps in the occassions it comes up. The other big thing that gets through S/L defense is ranged mezzes, which is one thing to always note when building for S/L on a squishy, but brutes have mez protection, so this is a non issue. |
Sure, I could get to to 45% sm/le (and probably will on an alternate build), but doing so means I have no protection against most fire, negative energy, and psionic attacks. It also makes DS pretty worthless, which could be a plus because it allows you to skip an attack.
Ultimately, it is a question of niche survivability and pay-offs elsewhere or all-around survivability with cuts. I personally believe that it is better, for me, to have good surivability against virtually everything. That is why I am planning a build with about 180% global recharge, 27.5% to M/R/A (with barrier making up the missing 5%), and most of the powers from both sets. That is the best combination to me, as it allows me to deal very high amounts of single or AoE damage as well as survive a large number of encounters with the ability to cap resistances and soft-cap easily. For a lower budget, or for more offensive options, going smashing/lethal will probably work better, and that's the way I'm probably going to spec my TW/Fire.
TW/Elec Optimization
Quote:
We're focusing on Ela here, so my comments are directed solely at Ela in terms of SM/L Defense.|
Originally Posted by Combat
I should have phrased myself better, I meant that Sm/Le would only protect against attacks with a smashing and lethal component. And going for that type of defense is fine, and great for nearly every character. I just find that I am more survivable and adaptable if I can get to good levels with a parry-style attack.
Sure, I could get to to 45% sm/le (and probably will on an alternate build), but doing so means I have no protection against most fire, negative energy, and psionic attacks. It also makes DS pretty worthless, which could be a plus because it allows you to skip an attack. |
Something to keep in mind is that Fire & Negative energy attacks are very rare, you would also need to specifically be facing attacks without a Smashing/Lethal component (most of the melee based Fire & Negative do have SM or L type as well).
Psi, with the 40-45% Resistance you will have, would not be a major concern.
DS being worthless is up for debate, at worst you can leave it with the default slot and stick an LoTG 7.5 in there. You will be hard pressed to get 5 LoTGs in an Ela build even with it, unless you took the Stealth Pool.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Combat
Ultimately, it is a question of niche survivability and pay-offs elsewhere or all-around survivability with cuts.
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90% Ela Resistance
40-45% Psi Resitance
Is one hell of a giant niche. In fact, that covers you vs. most of the endgame.
It also means 1 luck gets you close to the incarnate softcap vs. SM/L unlike your planned 32.5% which will require two.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Combat
I personally believe that it is better, for me, to have good surivability against virtually everything.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Combat
That is why I am planning a build with about 180% global recharge, 27.5% to M/R/A (with barrier making up the missing 5%), and most of the powers from both sets.
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Is that one luck away from softcapped vs. those damage types? No.
On the other hand, Ela has decent Resistances, a Self Heal + Regen from Energize and my opinion that I don't think we face those damage types in massed attacks against us in enough situations to specifically need to defend against them.
Effectively you are giving up permanent softcap vs. the majority of melee enemies that you will face (SM/L) for the ability to softcap with a luck against those same enemies as well as a handful of enemies that SM/L doesn't cover you against but which you don't really face that often.
This would be different for say, DA, because DA is somewhat weak vs. Ene damage and Ene damage is one of the more common attack types in the game, as well as in incarnate content.
Getting positional defense is more comprehensive than just s/l because positional protects from almost all damage types.
That being said, I've found it better to skimp on the AoE defense in favor or Melee and Range. AoE attacks are generally weak so Ela's resists would take care of it.
This is how I did it on my Ela/Ma tanker. 30% m/r and working on getting that glad armor 3% but with storm kick I get bumped up to 40% m/r.
Also it is a bit harder to do with a brute because of the lower mods on CJ and Weave.
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The Usual Suspects: Fimboolvetr (Icer Tank), Tsukiyomi (Mind/Psi/Ice Dom), Smiting Dragon (Dm/Sr Scrap), Widow Mortis (NW)
Up and Comers: Ameterasu (Km/Reg Scrap), Arrhymian (Elec/Nin Stalk), TDMKII (Bot/Traps MM)
Quote:
We know this, but you're talking about 45% SM/L vs. 32.5% M/R/A.|
Originally Posted by Infini
Getting positional defense is more comprehensive than just s/l because positional protects from almost all damage types.
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Is it still more comprehensive? I think it's debatable, considering Ela's other qualities (the entire point of my post, btw)
Otherwise, feel free to post a Brute Ela build that softcaps all your positional defenses, doesn't gimp slotting on your attacks and has 180% global recharge.
Quote:
Here's what I'm thinking: |
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
We know this, but you're talking about 45% SM/L vs. 32.5% M/R/A.
Is it still more comprehensive? I think it's debatable, considering Ela's other qualities (the entire point of my post, btw) Otherwise, feel free to post a Brute Ela build that softcaps all your positional defenses, doesn't gimp slotting on your attacks and has 180% global recharge. |
I'm using axe as a template, so here are the changes before I show the build:
I'm using agility as my alpha and barrier as my destiny. With those, I will have 32.5% in ranged and melee, 32.4% in AoE, and over 300% recharge in follow-through (which is needed for the best chain I've found so far, RA-FT-AD-DS/Gloom-FT). Gloom replaces crushing blow as an attack, and DN will allow me to be softcapped against non-resisting opponents. The build is ridiculously expensive, but I have everything ready except all the +3 Hami-Os.
Basically, I have barrier and power surge to keep me invincible, and can abuse DS to soft-cap at least melee. DN will help a little and reduce damage, even on top of PS. On top of that, I get roughly 50ish hps (the extra comes from Energize's heal). I even managed to keep Power Sink, so I don't have any endurance worries, even with all 4 AoE attacks (with WS recharging between 2.8 and 3.6 seconds depending on proc status).
Chop - Defensive Sweep, will have 1 luck of the gambler and 5 obliterations
Swoop - follow-through
Gash - Rend Armor, and will have an achilles heel proc in the open slot.
Whirling Axe - Whirling Smash
Cleave - Titan Sweep
Pendulum - Arc of Destruction
Build - Build Momentum
Code:
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EDIT: Anytime you see a +3 Hami-O and a basic IO, or two basic IOs, they will be +5 from enhancement boosters (capping resist, for example, with a ribosome and basic resist, or Hasten with 2 recharges). I changed the build some.
TW/Elec Optimization
I am not too experienced with Elec, so is it worth slotting Defensive Sweep for defense, grabbing Weave, and so on - or is it just better going for recharge and resistance as much as you can, with HP/Regen?
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