Deus_Otiosus
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:In which case the added res is primarily being used to tank said AV which is irrelevant to the DA Scrapper who is extremely unlikely to have aggro for any length of time if there are Tankers/Brutes present.Originally Posted by Auroxis
You only really need extra resistance for when you're tanking AV's, and seeing as these scenarios usually take just a few minutes, you can rely on orange inspirations to keep you capped most of the time.
It's also limited, you can't guarantee that you will always have enough +res inspirations on hand for whatever you're engaged in.
And drawing from my post above, the DA brute would need 2 small oranges just to hit the Scrapper SM/L Res cap, and 3 to get right up near the Brute cap. -
Quote:I don't necessarily disagree overall with what you said, but a few comments.Originally Posted by Nihilii
That said, if you do play in teams, the brute can end up significantly sturdier through buffs (either resistance or maxHP making dark regen that much more efficient), and will generally be a better team player, bringing aggro control into the mix.
- 40 DPS is pretty huge, and that's when you are able to maintain constant Fury. In terms of increase, what % is that? In other words (using made up numbers), going from a Brute 200 DPS to Scrapper 240 DPS as a 20% DPS increase.
- On teams, +Damage bonuses are common and probably more common than +Res buffing and definitely more common than the level of +res buffing that will see a DA Brute hit any Res caps. +Damage buffs will increase the Scrappers offensive advantage beyond 40 DPS.
- DA having decent resists across the board can benefit potentially from Brute res caps, but even on a solid DA build with Cardiac you need 40% SM/L Res buffing to hit the Brute cap. Fire, Cold, Toxic & Energy are all far enough away from even the Scrapper Res cap that I don't think this is a factor.
- Even if you do get buffed to your res caps, from say Barrier, the Brute will be drawing more aggro, and more incoming attacks than the Scrapper on a team. So its a wash imo, unless you're facing massive AoEs which hit everyone equally.
- +HP Buffs are also fairly rare, off the top of my head all I can think of is Frostwork - and a lot of people skip that.
- A good HP range for a DA Brute build is 2000 to 2100 HP, so 300 to 400 HP away from the Scrapper cap. Unfortunately only WP, Invuln, Stone, SD and EA can make regular use of the Brute higher HP cap.
So does the Brute actually gain enough mitigation advantage to offset the loss in offense?
Is the trade off equal, or even roughly equal?
For KM, I just don't think it is unfortunately.
On the other I agree that bringing aggro control to a team is a valuable aspect for a melee character - but my opinion is that unless you specifically desire this role that you're better off going with more damage and near parity in terms of your survivability. -
Quote:I'm not sure where you get the idea that the Brute version can't solo AVs, but you are wrong.Originally Posted by _Pine_
DM/SD scrapper would be a better choice if you are wanting to actually KILL those hard targets. If you just want to be able to survive the hard targets, roll a tank.
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Quote:I think in this case the Scrapper is the better option for you.Originally Posted by Kazz
This made me laugh, and I salute you for it sir.
Somewhat on-topic, I have a question to pose regarding the virtues of Brutes vs Scrappers.
I have a character concept that I've been itching to do, Kinetic Melee/Dark Armor. I've tried this as both a Brute and a Scrapper, but I'm not sure which works better.
I can't always afford to keep the "Go! Go! Go!" mentality that works best for Fury generation, and the playstyle of a Scrapper usually works better. Conversely, the damage aura and Dark Regeneration seem much more impressive on the brute, I imagine because of the taunt aura and the increased health cap, respectively.
I don't need a super, by-the-numbers comparison, but just a general impression. Would there be a noticeable difference with these powersets between the two Archetypes? If so, what is it?
Thanks in advance!
1) KM damage is much better on the Scrapper, better than a trade off for an extra 12% HP, imo.
2) The lack of a taunt aura to prevent mobs from fleeing does not affect DA as badly as say, FA, because you have two auras to choose from that will help control mobs (OG & CoF).
3) You are totally unaffected by the pace you choose to play at.
4) When you do team, no one will ever expect you to hold and survive a team's worth of aggro. -
Quote:Originally Posted by je_saist
If you are asking for a solo path consider this post by Positron: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...&postcount=312Quote:Originally Posted by PositronOtherwise the Trails will shrivel up and die.
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Quote:So you have come up with a set of arbitrary criteria, backed up only by your opinion on where ATs rank in each of these arbitrary categories that no one else uses but you and then proclaim, in nearly every thread that ever comes up on the subject, that your opinion on Brutes is a fact.Originally Posted by mauk2
I rank 4 main areas: Offense, defense, utility, movement. Given the new rankings on beta, the devs see things with some similarity.
On my four criteria, brutes do far better than scrappers.
I'd cover why this is not only a mistake, but also a massive disservice to your fellow posters - but Werner already did a better job of covering it and nothing has changed since his post. You should feel obliged to reread it, since he was kind enough to post it.
Really? Prove it.Quote:Originally Posted by mauk2
On offense, brutes and scrappers are on near-parity.
Top end Scrapper builds have near-parity with Brute survivability as well as doing an amount of DPS that outstrips the equivalent Brute build (using shared powersets) by anywhere from 15-30%. You can read the Rikti pylon thread to see this.
Only a tiny handful of shared secondaries see the Brute gaining a significant advantage.
Of the rest of your criteria; one is totally irrelevant in this game, another has only one example and no others, and the remaining one isn't true to the extent that you think it is. -
Quote:Only to a simpleton.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Ther truth is always simple
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Quote:Simplistic views of situations are simplistic.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
An evil dictatorship is still an evil dictatorship
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Quote:QFT.Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
At the very least, people like me are entertained by it. So thanks for that.
The breath might be wasted on the intended person, but the rest of us certainly appreciate the hell out of it. -
Quote:I can't speak for Arena, however for PvE & AVs, I think DM/SD/Soul with Reactive will be the better option.Originally Posted by Lord_Saigon
Basically I'm looking at a DM/Shield/Soul. The purpose of this combo is for hard single targets, Arena/Av's, Gm's Etc. While being nearly untouchable in all forms of content(obviously not THAT untouchable in trials but still decent). I dont have a proposed build, I havent had a chance to toy around in mids.
I know everyone picks the reactive interface for the damge, heck I have it on all my incarnates but I was wondering was Diamagnetic+DM's -tohit+Shields def+Darketest night would be opitmal for such a task. My friend has A DM/SR/Soul that barely gets touched in arena and surprisingly in trials. So is Shield a good substitute or should I look at SR?, I know shield is tougher for sure, but I'm not sure if it fits what I'm aiming for.
Softcap + Darkest Night will cover you on iTrials - you will have little to fear from anything that isn't an AV with Darkest Night Running.
You want reactive for soloing AVs imo, because debuffs will be resisted and speeding up the fight will be the better option.
FWIW I run a DM/SD/Soul with T4 Cardiac*, T4 Reactive Radial, T4 Void Radial, T4 Cimerorans Core & T4 Rebirth Radial.
*Cardiac is an odd choice. I took it specifically to help run Darkest Night & Maneuvers as well as for the +Resistance bonus. Spiritual is an equally and possibly superior choice depending on build. -
Quote:I'm not totally sure if the Brute would be doing better ST DPS, but I don't actually have it worked out on paper to say one way or the other.Originally Posted by Arbegla
Ah, i guess i missed that part about SD.. yep, that explains it. SD gives so much more to scrappers, that it would push higher then brute counter parts.. Now fire/fire brutes vs fire/fire scrappers, and brute would pull ahead.. (at least in theory, due to better taunt, higher resistance, higher HP, which means higher heals, and more damage)
The other advantages I agree with.
In many ways FA does work out better for the Brute as you noted, I personally think SD is the much better set overall however and the Scrapper's offense advantages there heavily outweigh the comparitively tiny mitigation advantage Brute SD gets in return (chiefly 12% more HP, & better potential out of OWTS).
That's my subjective opinion on the sets, I'm sure there are people who will prefer FA for whatever reason. I just find the overall combination of mitigation and offense that SD brings to the table more enjoyable. -
Quote:Since when does performance envelope only mean buffed for mitigation?Originally Posted by mauk2
Since when does 'performance envelope' mean only DPS?
And it's not like you're going to see equivalent build Scrappers dropping dead faster than their Brute counterparts.
I'll let you post some actual numbers to back up your claims about "DoT" based Brutes. Or better yet a pylon run that actually proves it.
Otherwise, this is more of the same baseless claims that you always make in these kinds of threads. -
Quote:As I mentioned above with SD, the answer is yes.Originally Posted by Arbegla
I'm honestly not sure Fire melee on a scrapper would out damage Fire melee on a brute, due to the DoT not critting, but being affected by fury.
I'm not counting high end, damage capped builds, but even if i was, does the extra DoT being fueled by fury out shine the crit damage of Scrappers fire melee?
AAO pumps the Scrapper's DPS up to a point that not even the addition of Gloom or the Fury enhanced DoTs can keep up with. -
Corr, Rad or Traps.
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Quote:The two top SD Builds, Fire and Dark, are both stronger on Scrappers by an amount that the Brute can not even pretend is close by any stretch of the imagination.Originally Posted by mauk2
Scrapper builds that rely on pseudopets outdamage brutes. Brute builds that rely on dots outdamage scrappers.
DB, KM? Scrapper wins.
So what builds in particular that use a shared primary are Brutes out-damaging Scrappers?
You mean except for all of the top DPS builds where they are totally outclassed by Scrappers?Quote:Originally Posted by mauk2
Brutes are better, it is simply a fact.
There is one single Brute build that is currently out doing Scrappers - and as soon as Scrappers get Super Strength, the Scrapper version of SS/FA will most likely outclass the Brute version in damage output even without Gloom. -
Quote:For your budget, Claws.Originally Posted by Hasael
What is a good primary for just procs and frakenslots.
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Quote:Color your Electric Melee attacks to match the Mu Lightning.Originally Posted by Kazz
So, I have an Elec/SR scrapper that just hit 46 (and is on his way to 47 as I type this up). My problem is this: I would like to go Mu for Mu Bolts (for Elec's admittedly weak ST damage) and Ball Lightning (for even more AoE goodness), but my detail-oriented mind has serious trouble reconciling the red lightning with the rest of his powers having NO red lightning. Would it really be worth sucking up the color difference?
That's what I did on my Electric/SD. -
Quote:All that +damage means 300 point footstomps.Originally Posted by ultrawatt
SS/ doesnt do well with SD. All that +dmg ends up getting wasted due to SCs very very low +dmg cap.
On a high rech build with the FF proc, you can be tossing out one of those 300 point footstomps every 5-7s or so. And the proc brings SC back up all that much faster. -
Quote:Did you read the entire OP?Originally Posted by Delerious
I don't think the most of the guy's giving you pro-/rad advice have really played /cold much.
I have both an ice/rad and a fire/cold corruptor.
My fire/cold corruptor is far superior imo. Part of that is fire being better than ice in pretty much most every aspect that matters, but ice pairs extremely well with /cold too.
For soloing once you get sleet at 35 for /cold it rapidly surpasses /rad in solo power even on so's. Once you get fully io'd heatloss can be nearly perma and keep you near the end recovery cap. Trust me, heatloss used against just 1 target from range is superior to AM. If you get into melee range you'll get at least a double stack giving you massive end recovery.
1) He doesn't have much experience with Corrs.
2) He's not taking hasten. Pay attention, I'm going to say it again so you can rethink your entire theory about making a recommendation based on perma Heat Loss and how the rest of us are not actually morons who some how overlooked this.
He's not taking hasten.
Great, now you've been accurately informed.
3)35 until you are finally a decent soloer. Cold is a late blooming set, this is why we all recommended rad.Quote:Originally Posted by Aptly Named PosterFor soloing once you get sleet at 35...
Rad has everything important to the set by L20.
Try paying attention next time and not assuming people don't understand the difference between powersets and that a recommendation for a smooth soloing experience doesn't automatically include things like perma heat loss on a powerset that doesn't really get going until L35. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Blue_Fenix
Hey folks,
Although I've been playing for a long time, I just got a Corruptor to 32 for the first time tonight and picked up Inferno, the only Tier 9 Nuke with an Endurance Crash I've ever had.
What's your strategy for using and slotting these kinds of powers? High recharge seems like a good idea, along with the usual Accuracy and Damage boosts.
I know you can pop a blue pill to deal with the end crash, and certain powers (such as Heat Loss from my /Cold Domination secondary) can help too. But even with those, your contribution to the fight will be pretty limited after setting one of these off.
So how do you know when it's a good time to nuke? And does the way you use these powers vary depending on which AT (Corruptor, Blaster, Defender) you're using it on?
I skip nukes on my Corrs outside of muling powers and having an emergency button.
Unfortunately that emergency also usually means I need my endurance bar to do all of the other things that could possibly save the situation as opposed to hoping my nuke will remove the threat.
I just find the end crash nukes to be too detrimental to efficient play and as Nihilii said even when the crash can be mitigated to an extent (if you are playing cold or kin) you still have to deal with detoggling. -
Its already been covered, but I'll just chime in my vote for /Rad as well.
While cold may be arguably the most powerful debuff set, Rad is very solo friendly.
Here are some of my reasons, which haven't been brought up yet.
- You have a PBAoE that also heals you. Its puny in the grande scheme of things, but its yours and its better than not having a self heal.
- Rad does nearly all of its important work in 2 toggles and 1 fast cast debuff, this gives you more time to shoot stuff.
- Unlike Cold, you benefit from your own buff (AM) (EDIT: although cold does benefit from Heat Loss)
- Fallout allows you to derive enjoyment from a terrible PUG or player for the times when you do team.
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Quote:I wonder if there is some metaphysical law that demands then when someone is wrong on the internet, they must also be full of snark.Originally Posted by Heavenly Perverse
In my personal opinion (which isn't much) building support toons for defense is somewhat like eating nails with your milk instead of honey nut cheerios. My Ice blast / Cold Corruptor has maybe 15% def and I rarely experience problems with mobs insta killing me. Here is a helpful tip. Perma hasten!!!! The more debuffs and AoEs you can throw at your enemies the better. When did everyone get crazy building for defense. I would only consider building a toon for defense if that toon is in fact defense based. Otherwise you will be missing out on some great pwrs. + its only smashing/lethal you are caping in. Why not take energy mastery and get Charged Armor? It gives Leth/smash/energy res (your Actic Fog also gives you energy res, so you're upping your res in 3 areas as apposed to upgrading your defense in two). If you want to eat nails go ahead. I'm not your dad, but if I was....We'd be eating honey nut cheerios for a long time!
That is what soft caping your support toons taste like.
1) You have no idea what you are talking about.
2) Scorpion Shield has Smashing, Lethal and Energy Defense.
3) You don't need to miss out on anything important to softcap Smashing & Lethal, and Energy can be capped or near capped depending on slotting potential.
4) Resistance is great, resistance without defense is not as a strong as defense without resistance.
I have 3 corrs with softcapped SM/L defenses and either softcapped or high Energy Defense - and they all have permahasten or near permahasten. -
That's exactly what I would have done actually, I was just convinced you wanted OG. Guess I was wrong.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Fulmens
That is correct.
People were throwing around billions a year ago, too. At least they were on five or six PVP recipes. There are more things in the near-billion club now, but not a lot more.
A few effects:
1. There's just a year more of extra money in the system. 10% Wentworth fees don't keep up.
2. With Hero/Villain merits _most_ things have gotten cheaper. Anyone can get [say] a Kinetic Combat dam/rech by doing eleven missions over two days. So anyone over level 35 can make, like, sixty to a hundred million in two days. Prices went down correspondingly. The things you can't easily get with H/V merits, have gotten WAY more expensive because people have the same budget [or higher, see #3 and #4] and are spending less of it on things like Stealth IOs and Decimations, so they have more to spend on Armageddons.
3. With the Incarnate system people are playing their 50's more and their under-50s less. Any 50 can make 2 million an hour by sneezing. Any 50 that can get on an ITF (ie not playing like midafternoon on Pinnacle) can make 5 or 10 million an hour. Any level 40 can make, like, 10% of that. So even MORE inf in the system.
4. Better farming technology has lowered the price of rare salvage; this allows people more money in their budget for trendy purples.
Results: The very, very high end items have come down slightly: a Gladiator's Armor 3% has gone from 3-4 billion to 2-2.5 billion. The near-top items [like non-mez purples] have gone up considerably because you could spend almost the same number of Hero Merits and get a Glad Armor instead. So they're closing in on Glad Armor prices.
The high-end oranges have stayed the same in some cases [Miracle, LotG Recharge, Kin Combat] and dropped hard in others [Numina unique, Stealth]. The middle oranges [Decimation, Touch of Death] have dropped hard and everything else costs pocket change.
I may have overanswered the question.
EDITED: "pocket change" has gone up, mostly due to #2. When you can -anyone can- make 60 million in two days for an hour or two of work, buyers don't care if they pay 50K or 200K for salvage, or 200K or 1 million for a generic IO. I was going to write "nobody cares" but that's not quite true; the people who actually buy are the rich end of the game population by definition.
Maybe this deserves a sticky. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Auroxis
The side benefit is that you get to go Villain for a bit in order to unlock it.
