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Generally, it's not a good idea. You lose a lot of damage, a lot more mitigation, and yes, you'd be stuck taking the personal shooties which don't do any good. Possible benefits are not having to buff those pets constantly (that's only helpful for /ff and /thermal now that equip/upgrade buffs are AoE), and having more room to run around.
From what I remember, this idea stems from sparing teammates from dealing with robots clogging caves.
To that end, I say #&@% 'em. -
Quote:First, little nitpick. It's Dechs. Pronounced "dex." Very notably not short for Dexter. I'm certainly not upset or anything; I know it's an unusual name.Deichs, your playstyle and build style seem very close to my own, but I do have a few things to mention (Some minor, some pointless, some just because I have nothing better to do):
Second, thanks for taking the time to offer suggestions. I really appreciate it.
Good plan. I don't like running into walls when I'm trying to sneak my way around. It's especially difficult in the Council caves. That's on the list of things to get now.Quote:Sprint: A good place to slot a +stealth IO. I know you have SS + Shadow Cloak for invis but there are many times when SS has just been too much for me, and I prefer having other options.
I may do that, I'll have to play around with slots to get the extras. In general, I wasn't too concerned about recharge because there's so much in bonuses worked in all over the place. I don't know if the build link shows it, but my alternate slotting for Emanation has the purple set in it. I do plan to fully purple out eventually, it's just a matter of time.Quote:Dark Nova Emanation/Detonation: I find that Positron's Blast doesn't give enough of a recharge bonus, so if you are going to spend lots of time in Nova consider a 6th slot with a lvl 50 Recharge IO. It makes a massive difference being able to get that extra AoE out each spawn.
I must have thought that +range was +recharge. Reading comprehension FTW. I was after the +max end bonus though. You'll notice I try to grab a lot of that.Quote:Black Dwarf Antagonise: It is the recharge you really want to slot it for, the times you really need to hold aggro you will find hasten drops and then the faster it is up the better. But I would drop the 2nd slot and just put a recharge IO into the main slot. Even if you don't I can't see the +range helping.
"I hate waiting." -Inigo.Quote:Shadow Recall: Do you use it in combat that often? I don't so use a range IO for the shadow shard.
I already have the recharge taken care of with set bonuses and hasten, so the only way to minimize waiting seemed to be interrupt. I hadn't thought about the Shard. I've never actually been there. (Please don't hit me. This is my first hero since i4. It's not my fault! I swear!)
I actually did plan on using this as my "heavy hitter" when I'm tanking in dwarf. It's up all the time, stacking with itself, and this is where I plan to put the purple PBAoE set. The heavy end usage is one of the reasons I try to grab those +max end bonuses. They indirectly increase recovery as well.Quote:Black Dwarf Mire: Many people disagree with me, but this is a power you want to spam whenever it is up, so that is every 5.7 seconds, but at 13 end a pop you won't be able to use it much before the end starts to bite. I frankenslot this power and forgo any set bonus'. Even then it can still be quite end heavy, or at least was until I got the chance for +end proc.
Yeah, those endmods are kind of superfluous. The +ends I already have, and figured the movement bonus might be nice in dwarf form. I'll consider the fact that the slots might be better elsewhere.Quote:Dark Nova/Black Dwarf: You have slotted the Chance for +End, which is fair enough, but the rest of the EndRdx or EndMod only add up to +0.2 eps for Nova and +.26 eps for Dwarf, which I don't think is the best place for the slots, especially since I think you should find 2 more slots for the Nova AoE's
Nope, don't use them at all. Maneuvers is a LoTG mule, but yeah, I should probably use invisibility. The others... I don't know why I picked them. Maybe one day I'll want inky aspect because the team could use more control? Maybe? Orbiting death is just a cool visual, and if I'm going to pick a power I won't use, it might as well look good.Quote:Maneuvers/Inky Aspect/Orbiting Death/Phase Shift: Do you use these powers? If the answer is no I recommend dropping all 3 and getting Invisibility (LoTG mule instead of Maneuvers) and Stimulant/Aid Self/Resuscitate. You will definately use Resuscitate (Often!), and stimulant works well for Mo runs (Aid Self isn't great but it does give you stun resistance!). Also phase shift is a purchasable temp power in case you ever do PvP, so no great loss.
Yeah, I grabbed another movement bonus and enhanced the accuracy/recharge. I don't think the movement is that necessary though, so I'll revise this. I'm not changing Impervium Armor, since I want the +max end.Quote:Eclipse: Amazing power that it is you shouldn't need to enhance the EndMod. I went 4 x Res/Rech and 1 x Acc IO.
This is eventually getting the full purple set. Until then, I'm getting the set bonus for global recharge while having as many fluffy balls of doom as I can. I know how awesome that proc is, since I have it on my Assbot.Quote:Dark Extraction: Drop the recharge IO and the Dam/End and get the purple Acc/Dam/Rec and the purple Proc. Not cheap but not too expensive and the pets are worth it and then some.
Meh, I figured the power recharges fast enough on its own, might as well use it as a "please proc" kind of power.Quote:Dark Nova Bolt: I don't think the chance for build up proc is worth being picked over the acc/end/rech, but if you do then I would slot Dark Nova Blast the same for twice the chance.
Pretty sure the heal and recharge were ED capped, I'll have to look at it again. I can't see mids right now, but I think I went for another +max end here.Quote:Black Dwarf Drain: The only other power I frankenslot, Acc/Heal/Rech and as much of it as you can. This power can be a lifesaver.
Well, with purples this becomes so very close to perma. I have a bind that drops just to use this power. I don't think I will be able to manage to keep it perma, but with enough practice, maybe. As it is, it's getting me a 5% recharge bonus, but I should probably look at it more as a boost and less as an AoE attack.Quote:Sunless Mire: Blashpemy for some but a playstyle choice for me. I once had it perma in my build, and I think the optimum playstyle involves making full use of it and dropping every 30s, but there is no way I can manage that, and I guess the same if for you. In that case, once you get some purples in your build and can afford to drop the recharge bonus you might want to consider just giving it 3 slots of Acc/Rec IO's and leaving it at that, freeing up slots elsewhere for more used powers.
Yeah, that was my plan. Basilisk's gaze gives a very rare 7.5% recharge bonus, and lockdown proc is there for the chance to hold bosses. The other lockdown enhancer ED caps some things and give me a slight recovery boost. -
Heh, I was only poking fun and making a vague Freedumb comment.
If anyone, I should be getting poked fun at since I'm in the "Virtue lolRP" crowd. -
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Quote:I want to make a bots/dark so very badly, but I just cannot rationalize a concept. Nanite swarm is the best I can do, and I'm just not happy with it. Maybe after my character "dies" he'll come back as a ghost to reanimate his robots with nether worldly energy... but Dechs Kaison is not likely to die anytime soon...The wife swears by her Bot/Traps, I swear by my Bots/Dark, together we pawn so hard the Internet goes down!

It's also a very awesome duo (Bots/Dark + Bots/Traps) because our characters have linked backgrounds!
I did slot gravity well for hold as opposed to damage, as well as adding the +2 mag proc. The same is true for Gravatic Emanation, slotted for stun. I'm leaving myself capable of such controllery stuff, I just don't expect to do it often.Quote:EDIT :: Very nice focused build. Should be very good for slowing stuff down (AV/EB/GM) and allowing a team to have fun with it, and give you good all around DPS. Not exactly how I'd go, because I'm very into controlling enemies with holds and stuns, but as we all know there's more ways to skin a Bobcat.
I spend most of my time in forms and just drop for buffs, so recharge seemed to be the best focus for me. Eclipse is perma, even mire can be, but that requires me to drop way too bloody often. I also didn't slot any toggle powers, since I don't plan on staying human long enough to make use of them. I'm no good with attack chains, but with the amount of recharge I'm packing, it may very well end up as the two AoEs in nova. I know the dwarf mire can actually STACK with this build.
Do you stay human longer and make use of the Opressive Gloom clone I can't remember the name for? How else are you holding/stunning enemies that I may not be seeing? -
Quote:This is more or less what I was trying to say. Recharge is more important than accuracy, which is more important than damage. Damage helps the taunt in that a high damage target moves up the aggro list faster, but really? You need to connect first. And you want this up as often as possible, so recharge should be the primary focus.3 Recharges, 1 Acc, and proc to your delight is my suggestion.
Gang War is a one-of-a-kind power. It looks like damage, but it's really taunt. The best taunts need accuracy. This taunting cloud of minions absorbs tons of aggro and negates the nastiest alpha strikes.
I still maintain that you should try to fit the uniques that won't go in your other pets. That's an extra 5% defense and 10% resist all. Maybe not much, but on top of everything else, it's amazing. -
I've logged a metric ton of hours on my bots/traps, and I've never seen them not aggro when the seekers get hit.
That said, I've never tried the around the corner trick. All I can say is try it a lot more, try to gauge distance. See if you can figure out whether it's LOS or distance that's the trick.
Also check your combat logs. It's possible that you were attacked by a stray AoE that missed you, so you didn't notice it. If that's the case, the bots would retaliate immediately. -
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Quote:Very arguably, PBs solo much better at the intended difficulty the game was designed around of +0/x1. A warshades powers are more beneficial as you have more enemies to fight against. A PB will always build up for the same value, will always heal the same amount when you click the button. A warshade is too dependent on the number of enemies.There's not a single person here that can say with any level of honesty that a PB is in any way comparable to a WS when comparing the two in their entirety. We all know this is false. The PB may start out stronger but it is quickly surpassed.
This is bad design. Does this mean that PBs suck and can't get through normal content on normal difficulty? Of course not. We've already covered that. Does that mean that we should just sweep all the poor design under the rug and call it WAI? Of course not. This game doesn't and shouldn't work that way. -
Can we just agree to disagree?
Some of us like to be passively powerful.
Some of us like to be actively powerful.
I happen to like both depending on my mood. If I want to know that I can be immensely powerful provided I do everything right, I'll play my warshade. If I want to waltz through enemies without really doing much, I'll play my mastermind. -
It doesn't. I don't need it to. That's why I have a mastermind.
My warshade is still the most fun I've ever had playing this game, and no amount of solid math will convince me otherwise. There is no mathematical expression of fun. -
I'm bringing my old thread back up with a new scrapperlock story, or rather a few.
This time, however, I was blueside. *gasp* With a warshade. *double gasp*
First story: I created Defying the Curse, a warshade, and ran a few missions until I hit level six and picked up nova. I proceeded to join a sewer team, exemplaring to level 2, but thanks to the new exemplar rules, I retained nova. We had decided to go the whole way to KR, and a few minutes in, someone said:
"Hey Curse, can you slow down? The mobs between us and you are respawning before we catch up."
Story Two: Getting dwarf, I kind of felt invincible. I was tanking for a synapse team because of said invincibility complex. Not only was I tanking, I was scrapperlock running ahead and bashing robots. RAH RAH RAH! STOMP! SMASH! I forgot for a moment that when I drop to human for sunless mire, I retain the bullet stopping power of a blueberry pie.
"Anybody got a wakie?"
That's all I have for scrapperlock right now. Somebody else has to have a new story too! -
Just make sure you fit the two uniques in there for recharge intensive pets. After that, frankenslot as much recharge, acc, and damage as you can. Priority in that order.
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Quote:Wow. Thanks. Ok, I'm glad I wrote this.You just convinced me to give my Bots/Traps another shot. Now I want to make a warshade. Someone should hire you to convince people to play their games.
I've never had a WS before but I leveled a PB into the 30s and I hated it. Anyways, great post.
Out of curiosity, which of my posts made you go back to Bots/Traps? Was it either the scrapperlock thread or the "I've discovered my limits" thread? -
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It's at most two hours a day. Generally twice a week, but hardly ever more than three times. Quit complaining, it's not that bad.
I've heard EVE has maintenance every day.
I remember playing WoW, which had the same if not more maintenance.
It is a necessary evil. They need to apply patches to fix bugs. They need to clear the cache and whatever else they do during routine maintenance. If you don't have those times, the game never changes and then breaks entirely. -
This is what I got so far... The focus was on recharge. The last few power picks were only as LOTG mules. Phase shift because... well I don't know. Maybe I'll panic one day. Or go to PvP. Either way, it'd be better than the nebulous form's 3 second delay. Is anything else worth taking in that spot? There's one 6.25% recharge bonus that's over the cap, but that's OK because it gets replaced by a purple set eventually. This is a character that I don't see ever getting boring, so I don't expect gaining purples will be an arduous process.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Defying the Curse: Level 50 Science Warshade
Primary Power Set: Umbral Blast
Secondary Power Set: Umbral Aura
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Concealment
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Shadow Bolt -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(A)
Level 1: Absorption -- S'fstPrt-ResKB(A)
Level 2: Gravimetric Snare -- GravAnch-Hold%(A)
Level 4: Gravity Shield -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 6: Dark Nova -- AdjTgt-ToHit(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx(43), P'Shift-End%(45), P'Shift-EndMod(45)
Level 8: Starless Step -- Acc-I(A)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(19), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 12: Sunless Mire -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(15), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(15), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 14: Shadow Cloak -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 16: Super Speed -- QckFt-EndRdx/RunSpd(A)
Level 18: Gravity Well -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(19), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(21), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(27), Lock-%Hold(36), Lock-Acc/Hold(36)
Level 20: Black Dwarf -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), ImpArm-ResDam(21), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(25), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(25), P'Shift-End%(43), P'Shift-EndMod(45)
Level 22: Stygian Circle -- P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(A), P'Shift-EndMod(23), EndRdx-I(23)
Level 24: Orbiting Death -- Acc-I(A)
Level 26: Gravitic Emanation -- Stpfy-Acc/Rchg(A), Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun(37), Stpfy-Acc/EndRdx(37), Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(37), Stpfy-Stun/Rng(50)
Level 28: Inky Aspect -- Acc-I(A)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Dark Extraction -- ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(40), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx(42), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(42), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 35: Stygian Return -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 38: Eclipse -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), ImpArm-ResDam(39), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(39), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(39), P'Shift-Acc/Rchg(40), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(48)
Level 41: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 44: Grant Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 47: Stealth -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 49: Phase Shift -- RechRdx-I(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Dark Sustenance
Level 1: Shadow Step -- Jnt-EndRdx/Rng(A)
Level 10: Shadow Recall -- IntRdx-I(A)
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Level 6: Dark Nova Bolt -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(7), Decim-Build%(11), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48)
Level 6: Dark Nova Blast -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(7), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46)
Level 6: Dark Nova Emanation -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(5), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(13), Posi-Dam%(46)
Level 6: Dark Nova Detonation -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Posi-Dam%(9), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(13), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46)
Level 20: Black Dwarf Strike -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Mako-Dam%(33)
Level 20: Black Dwarf Smite -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(31), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 20: Black Dwarf Mire -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(27), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(29), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 20: Black Dwarf Drain -- Nictus-%Dam(A), Nictus-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg(34), Nictus-Acc/Heal(34), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Heal/HP/Regen(34), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 20: Black Dwarf Step -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
Level 20: Black Dwarf Antagonize -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(36)
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Set Bonus Totals:- 17% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 17% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 17% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 17% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 17% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 17% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 17% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 17% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 3% Defense(Smashing)
- 3% Defense(Lethal)
- 3% Defense(Fire)
- 3% Defense(Cold)
- 5.5% Defense(Energy)
- 5.5% Defense(Negative)
- 6.75% Defense(Psionic)
- 3% Defense(Melee)
- 4.25% Defense(Ranged)
- 3% Defense(AoE)
- 13.1% Max End
- 52% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 3% Enhancement(Stun)
- 5% Enhancement(Heal)
- 91.3% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 20% FlySpeed
- 92.4 HP (8.62%) HitPoints
- 20% JumpHeight
- 20% JumpSpeed
- Knockback (Mag -4)
- Knockup (Mag -4)
- MezResist(Confused) 2.5%
- MezResist(Held) 2.5%
- MezResist(Immobilize) 13.5%
- MezResist(Sleep) 2.5%
- MezResist(Stun) 6.9%
- MezResist(Terrorized) 2.5%
- 14.5% (0.24 End/sec) Recovery
- 10% (0.45 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 20% ResEffect(FlySpeed)
- 20% ResEffect(RechargeTime)
- 20% ResEffect(RunSpeed)
- 3.15% Resistance(Fire)
- 3.15% Resistance(Cold)
- 20% RunSpeed
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Or how about this? You give me half what you expect to spend on your build and then I'll do the work for you.
The point I'm making is put some effort into it yourself. Work up a mids build. Pick IOs that you can realistically afford and try to go for bonuses you think are good. Then show us and we'll critique it and offer suggestions. Alternatively, you could use the search function. I'm sure there's several bots/dark builds posted on these forums.
What I mean to say is that your post looks very "entitled." Show me that you're willing to put effort into it to begin with and I'll gladly help. -
Quote:Ahhhh I see what this is now.Why can't I say SF as a general term for SF/TF, but you haughty, stuck-up hero players get to say TF for both. NO! It is the Lady Grey STRIKE FORCE and Imperious Strike Force! :P. And they may never fix it. Shouldn't MA critters be fixed in a week or two? according to what they said right before i16 was released. No news on that either.
Translation: I am entitled to everything I want now! -
Quote:Perhaps you meant to say... a glinting eye?Hmmm... true that (and I regularly read your posts to glean some good advice on how to play a PB/WS). I'll learn more as I move up the levels and face yet more challenging opponents. Up to 25+, though, it has not been much of a problem - yet! Every AT has its soft spots and you pointed out one here that I'll have to keep a gleaming eye on.

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You're welcome.
It is nice how much variety I have. Tank goes afk because his cats start attacking each other? Eclipse or Dwarf up and go. The controller DC'd and we need some mezzers taken care of? Use the gravity well and emanation a bit more. Want to stealth a mission? Full stealth and recall friend. Otherwise, dance and destroy!Quote:Secondly, you're just in love with your Warshade, and that's just fine. It's actually kind of normal for people who care more about what their character can actually DO rather than simply how much consistent DPS it can pump out, not that Warshades lack in the DPS department, but they do have to work for it, or rather "dance" for it.
I've already started with the IOs. I have two level 25 +end Performance Shifter procs and one LOTG +recharge made out of merits. I've recently fell into a small fortune and started buying 5 piece sets of Decimation for the two nova ST attacks since they only go up to level 40. I'm doing the same for Impervium Armors to go into dwarf and eclipse. +Max endurance goodness.Quote:Have fun with your Warshade, get it to Lv50 and work on an IO plan with all the nifty bonuses you want. When you get tired with your Warshade, take a break from the game I guess, because I don't know of any class that can compete in the fun factor.

After I iron a few more kinks out, I'll post a build for critiquing. I've got a few slots I'm not sure I like the placement of. -
Quote:Ok, my bad. You just don't happen to know anything about one of the best dark miasma powers. Autohit stun and all that. One of the most talked about benefits of having a dark on the team.Uh, no, it's only proof I don't know Howling Twilight as well as I might. I don't use it much, and mostly as a rez or -regen on EBs/AVs. The recharge makes it less useful to me than you'd suggest.
Wait, you use it on EVs/AVs? Do you always get in their face to hit them with it? How the hell didn't you know it worked from range?! -
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Quote:First, I haven't set foot blueside since i4, with the exception of my recent warshade. I know villain content.Maybe you can all wait for replies before assuming?
Strategy was pretty much the same as solo: Open with Fearsome Gaze to lock down as many as possible. Darkest Night on a Nullifier if it's not terrified, Tar Patch, Fireball/Fire Breath/Rain of Fire. But the Nullifier usually opens with its stun, and if it hits (and looking at my combat log, I'm pretty sure Longbow has an inherent +tohit, which makes Dark less effective than you hero players would assume) that drops Darkest Night and brings the whole chain to a screeching halt. Team wipes typically ensue.
This Corruptor regularly runs x4 solo, and Longbow (with its multiple and long-lasting mezzes) is the only group she ever has problems with. It's the mezzes, not the strategy.
Second, you had an MM with you that has enforce morale. No, forget enforce morale, you had an MM. He should be alpha soak every damn time. Stun or no, he's got 50% resist with only two pets in bodyguard mode. It goes up from there. Let him eat all the mez, his pets will fire back.
My diagnosis: Operator error.
