Dechs Kaison

You know what, I apologize for carrying this bit of an argument out so long. You're right, we're down to playstyle differences and this is highly subject to opinion at this point. I came across a bit too strong with the initial post.

Don't worry, all this information is getting compiled into the guide. I'm in the process of writing a section on how to build your own death machine on any budget.

I'm still going to recommend more recharge from the Alpha, but I won't be so negative about the others.

I just want to pull this out first and mention this is not something I was aware of. I imagined it was like enhancements, once you slot it, it stays. Thanks for the information.

I've a couple things to say about this. You do not need to be in nova form to benefit from a double mire. Human mire lasts 30 seconds, the Dwarf lasts plenty long enough for a Gravity Well, Unchain Essence, and Quasar. By this point I'm already moving to the next spawn.

Shifting forms does not take that long. If all you do is fight +0s, then yeah, maybe it's a bit prohibitive. I run most TFs on +2 so they're at least interesting.

Finally, "ramping up" only happens once. After the first spawn, I am almost always the first into the next group. I have my momentum, I don't want to lose it. For more insight into how I play, I encourage you to read The MFing Warshade guide linked in my signature.

Again, I'm never the last one to the next spawn; usually I'm the first. I have superspeed and teleport. You also seem to be making the assumptions that I need to Stygian Circle after every spawn and that it roots you for some inordinate amount of time. Neither of these assumptions are true.

Don't forget that Eclipse can refill the endurance bar if it is lacking. Usually, it's not.

I run my TFs with a strict set of rules to include:

"If you think you can handle it, you're free to go for it."
"If you thought you could handle it, but couldn't, you're expected to get back up or hosp out."

I have quite a few regular friends who run TFs with me. None of which have problems with Lone Rangers. I tend to do a bit of this myself. More often than not, the eight people on my team are split in three or four directions.

I admit I haven't done the math on it yet, so you may be correct here. In which case, the benefit does not seem like much. It still seems like more than damage I won't benefit from often and endurance reduction I don't need.

Remember, even a single mire in nova form cuts you down to about 40% more room for damage bonus. With two offensive teammates, you're done right there.

I don't see them as situational. I want to use Quasar every time it's up, as soon as it's up. The only thing situational about it is that I need a small blue inspiration or Geas needs to be ready. With insp combine macros and heaps of global recharge pushing Geas to be ready every 9 minutes, I never worry.

This is how I do it. Please, watch the Dark Armor Sucks video in my sig. There's a bit of purple in my tray.

My warshade has minimal amount -recharge resistance in the form of a Winter's Gift unique, but don't forget that any other EAT on the team will boost it by an equal amount.

I don't know about you, but I don't always have a tank on the team. When I don't, that doesn't mean I shift into dwarf and actually tank. Tanks are not necessary in this game; aggro is shared on the best teams.

Further, I'm not really talking about getting recharge floored by a mass of enemies with the debuffs. If that happens, just about anybody is screwed and munches on purple insps until the things fall off. I'm more talking about getting hit with one or two (5th Column Marskmen come to mind, as well as psi cones from Arachnos). Not enough to cripple you, but enough to cause a lapse in Eclipse and Mire. A little buffer here would be nice. I speak from experience knowing that little buffs like AM or SB seem to make all the difference in the world.

Personally, I aim for level 40 with my builds. The difference in enhancement value from 40 to 50 is generally not noticeable thanks to the ED caps. One of my favorite TFs is the Abandoned Sewer Trial. Also, our SG tends to do a lot of AE, and 40 seems to be a common level to set the missions around. Level 40 is when troublesome enemies like Malta and Carnies start to show up as well. I don't like to be without my sets if I'm exemped to a friend in that range. Finally, Warburg is fun.

I'm aware of the diminishing returns, but I've already gone over the lack of benefits the other alpha options provide. If you are already capped for damage (it's not hard to do with a 'shade), Musculature provides no benefit. The resistance bonus is likewise wasted when eclipse is taken into account, especially since it is not enough benefit to drop the required enemies from five to four. Endurance reduction is the last thing we need considering Stygian Circle. Even my high recharge build, low end reduction build is fully sustainable in dwarf, without dropping for Stygian Circle. Adding inherent Fitness to forms will only make this better.

Diminishing returns, at least in my book, are better than no returns.

My warshade isn't concerned with a seamless attack chain (unless you consider Nova Emanation -> Detonation, which isn't quite seamless yet). The added recharge will allow me to use the long recharge powers more often. I beg for a faster Quasar, Unchain Essence, and more time with three fluffies on my own.

I also think you're overlooking one of a warshade's weaknesses: -recharge. By going with the Spiritual branch you provide yourself with a buffer zone. Why do SR characters aim for 50% defense? To have a buffer for when the debuffs start falling on. If my Eclipse overlaps by 15 seconds instead of 10 as it is now, that just means I can get hit with a few more -recharge attacks before I have to worry about losing the protection of Eclipse.

This is a good idea for some people. I like to be able to exemplar without changing how my character functions on a fundamental level. Since the alpha slot goes away, I wouldn't put any stock in having the core of my build disappear at level 49.

I'm well aware of that. The point is, it gives the entire team that benefit.

The entire team does 11.3% extra damage. I realize each player is not getting 90.4% damage buff, but there has to be a way to account for additional benefit given to teammates. A total of 90.4% in damage bonuses has been applied to the team.

Just to be nitpicky, Assault doesn't actually work like that. It boosts the base damage, not enhanced damage. So unless you were talking about a mastermind without enhancements, 11.3% damage bonus will only bring it up to about 105.7 DPS. Even less when you account for the inherent damage bonus as well. Again, just to be nitpicky.

No.

Go back and read my posts. Bonus points if you find the word "overpowered" in any of them.

I was merely calling out a flawed comparison. One poster here told me to compare apples to apples. I'm not trying to compare anything.

All I'm saying is that comparing your idea to Health is not apples to apples. You cannot say "Heath has no cost and grants 40% regen, this should grant 50%." That's not a valid logical leap.

Weave grants more defense than Maneuvers. Maneuvers even has a higher endurance cost. Maneuvers benefits a whole team, thus why the benefit is smaller. Using that logic, your toggle should be less than Health. Try 15-25% and I'll go for it.

He was comparing the proposed 50% in a leadership style power to Health, an auto power which grants 40%.

I'm saying it's not a fair comparison, because health only grants its bonus to one person. The 50% toggle could be granting 50% to eight players.

50% * 8 = 400%.

Ooooh ooooh! I did not think of this, but it would be pretty damned incredible.

Double Eclipse can bottom out enemy endurance.

Six fluffy pets flinging purple doom.

EVERYTHING will fight you at the -recharge cap.

Stuns abound.

Double Freaking Gravity Well.

You both get a little bit of -rech resistance from each other.

Bonus points if one of you goes Human and the other goes Tri-Form.

Or you could do some really cool concept thing where one of you is the human/dwarf and the other is nova/human. That could be neat.

Mine's Dark/Fire, but I really would advise to go Dark/Elec or Dark/Stone if you want a Dark Armor Tank.

You're too kind. That only holds true when I'm playing the MM.

So far, as a brute, dom, or corruptor, I've been nothing but complete failure. That's with a SS/WP even. I'm hoping I do better with my claws/dark project.

/disagree

The MM should take the alpha of the first group in a room while the corruptor debuffs and decimates the second. As this happens, the dominator locks down and eats the spawns in a different hallway while the brute charges forward, aggroing a few enemies from each of four spawns on the way to the boss.

In the meantime, the Stalker might have killed a pesky lieutenant.

I think recharge is exactly what my human form PB wants as well, so he'll likely go with spiritual (after I get to 50, of course). His attacks aren't up quite often enough for my tastes. Don't forget the fact enhancing heal will make for more +max HP as well.

Don't get me wrong, hitting harder would be nice, but I think I'd rather hit more often, heal more often, and heal better.

Then again, his endurance consumption is off the charts in a way that makes my Dark Armor characters laugh. Perhaps I should go Cardiac and get a minor boost to his resistance as well?

No, you're missing the point. Your toggle grants 400% total regen if ONE person takes it on a team of eight.

If everyone took it, that'd be 3200% regen.

Well, name one kind of melee character that doesn't have trouble with that.

I was just amazed that Eiko would claim Malta are tailored to Dark Armor, and was asking for some "common enemies" that wouldn't be tailored to fight Dark Armor.

No.

Health only grants it to you. Your idea, at 50%, has the potential to grant 400% regen.

Energy damage is a weakness.

I've done the RWZ challenge while standing next to a pylon.

Defense debuffs can hurt.

I did the first mission of an MoITF set for +4 by accident.

Longbow does cause problems, especially since I don't have mitigation in my melee set besides "kill them." Arachnos I generally don't have a problem with.

Can you provide some examples of mobs that I should have problems with?

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Genius!

Fix'd.

When playing a defense based character, once your defense is over 25%, the streak breaker code will not kick in until the 100th miss in a row.

Even with 45% defense, it's likely that you will be hit by the fourteenth attack.


Some players must like to remain ignorant of the game mechanics. I really would rather not.

Adaptability is the signature of a good player.


On topic:

When I tank, I almost invariably "herd forward," meaning that I grab aggro and drag it forwards to the next group. My teams generally consist of at least three "DKTF regulars" who can handle the size of mobs this generates.

When the team isn't tough enough or the enemy type is a bit too powerful, then I stop herding forward and simply go with "jump in and condense." I run in, attack stuff, taunt fringe stuff and generally let the whole group of enemies pile on me. I don't have trouble holding aggro and don't need to "herd backwards" to keep attention on me. Generally, when the enemy group has dwindled enough, I'll jump ahead to the next group to condense while the team mops up the remainder.

When there are two enemy groups close together and the team cannot handle both at the same time, I jump into one group and [Salt Crystals], then jump back to the other group. It's usually dead before the sleep wears off.

When the room contains waaaaayyyy too many enemies and the team can't handle it all at once (I'm thinking AV room of the first Kahn mission with a team that lacks defenders), I herd backwards. It's generally the best way to keep the team safe and make the fight possible. It is not the faster alternative if the team can handle the room and all its glorious aggro.

When I'm on my warshade, I just do my own thing and meet back at the AV.

I got that badge when I rolled a mastermind.