Da_Captain

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You should definitely add Fire Breath at that point you are hurting more targets by the time you kill the first one the next one will be at half health not even requiring a full attack chain.

But any way I would like to know how you got your numbers. Doing a chain of Blast>Blaze>Blast>Flares

Regular total damage would be 269.06
New Dom the totoal would be 430.57

Now I don't know how DPS is calculated, but if I were to take a guess it would be total damage/total activation time

If that is the case then dps would be as follow

Old - 61.15
New - 97

Plus with the new values Blaze and Flare overkill a minion so you won't really need that much of a chain.

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1. I said I was doing single target. The only time an aoe would be used is if it is more damaging than a st attack. Firebreath is not. So unless you want to see worse dps and higher endurance burn?

2. Try adding damage enhancements, and the live dom is perma as mentioned and supported by the recharge needed to fuel the chains used.

3. blast>blaze>blast>flares is IMPOSSIBLE on test with out a half second gap. And that is at the recharge cap, which nobody is hitting solo. Using high recharge of ~230% it would be a 1.3 second gap. Which sort of runs counter to a seamless chain no?

4. The numbers are straight off the test server, where dot is avg'd, some minor rounding occurred for both sets.

5. Your total activation time numbers are incorrect, you need to account for server ticks.

6. the chain you provided with 236% recharge would only produce 126.2 dps, so less than live, for more end and full of gaps. Thx but no thx.

I don't mind answering questions, but I can assure you this is not my first time at the rodeo

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I did edit, but a couple of thing that I am going to mention that really bring the test version out ahead.

1.) Biggest point the average gamer doesn't have 70% or higher on their recharge.

2.) 76% recharge is nothing to brag about one slow and you are back to regular dom with weak damage.

3.) To get the much recharge with a /Fire is extremely expensive unless the market has gotten better

4.) Also with that little recharge you have to live by hasten making sure you hit it once it comes up.

Yeah you may come out a little ahead endurance wise but too many factors play a role against bringing your damage down.

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I'm not sure where I should ask, and I've been kinda away during the test process, but I wanted to find out what effect the changes have on endurance consumption? The one post I saw a redname reply to that was Dom feedback was that the endurance useage was even more of a hog than ever at low levels. I also happened to notice some patch notes about damage going up (yay), recharge going up (boo) and endurance going up (boo) on some of the powers.

As frustrating as it is as a dominator having little plinky attacks at low levels, heck at all levels, at least I get to use them quickly. I can't stand slower attacks or heavier endurance useage, and the one post where Castle (I think?) said "this is feedback I can use" the complaint was of harder endurance useage at low levels.

So, in a nutshell, in a sentence or two, what are the results of the change? With damage, end, and recharge going up, is it the same damage over time only it feels like more? Or is it really more? Did the end cost actually go up? Does it feel slow?

I just havent had time to get on test (life keeping me busy) but I'd like to know what I'm in for when I get a chance go jump back in (which will be post I15, most likely).

Thanks,

Lewis

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I can speak to /fire most accurately. I'm still crunching for everything else, plus I don't want to do it right now (got a good book to read in my spare time).

I run a mild earth/fire perma dom (76% global, hasten)
(arcana time factored)
On live I use:
chain of
blast>blaze>blast>flare>repeat
Requires:
0% rech in flare
236% rech in fireblast
144% rech in blaze

Consumes:
4.64 EPS

FE is up ~50% of the time

AVG dps = 129.6 (dot has been avg'd)
w/ FE AvG dps = 170.3

That is a heap of ranged damage for a very reasonable end cost imo.

On test:
chain of
flare>blast>flare>blaze>repeat
requires:
236% rech in flares
124% rech in fireblast
214% rech in blaze

consumes:
6.14 EPS

FE is up ~50% of the time
AVG dps = 140.4
w/ FE AVG dps = 202.5

Analysis:
Damage increase = 1.08x as much
FE Dam increase = 1.19x as much

Endurance consumption increase = 1.32x as much

With just stamina and 30% end red slotting:
Live is sustainable for - 92.6 seconds
Test is sustainable for - 44.8 seconds

Interpretation:
Endurance has increased a LOT more than damage has increased.
Recharge requirements are overall higher on test than live.
Zero (or very close to it) endurance issues on live. Significant end drain on test.

I'll post a chain with incinerate in a sec.
edit: added it to the dom feedback thread

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You should definitely add Fire Breath at that point you are hurting more targets by the time you kill the first one the next one will be at half health not even requiring a full attack chain.

But any way I would like to know how you got your numbers. Doing a chain of Blast>Blaze>Blast>Flares

Regular total damage would be 269.06
New Dom the totoal would be 430.57

Now I don't know how DPS is calculated, but if I were to take a guess it would be total damage/total activation time

If that is the case then dps would be as follow

Old - 61.15
New - 97

Plus with the new values Blaze and Flare overkill a minion so you won't really need that much of a chain.

Edit: Sorry didn't add in the fact that it is built for permadom, oh well since I don't feel like doing the numbers again I am still going to say that it is much better because and end should not be an issue with consume and a refilling end bar every 90 sec. and the fact that any +dam bonuses are doing a lot more for you on the new build than they are on the old one.

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I'm not sure where I should ask, and I've been kinda away during the test process, but I wanted to find out what effect the changes have on endurance consumption? The one post I saw a redname reply to that was Dom feedback was that the endurance useage was even more of a hog than ever at low levels. I also happened to notice some patch notes about damage going up (yay), recharge going up (boo) and endurance going up (boo) on some of the powers.

As frustrating as it is as a dominator having little plinky attacks at low levels, heck at all levels, at least I get to use them quickly. I can't stand slower attacks or heavier endurance useage, and the one post where Castle (I think?) said "this is feedback I can use" the complaint was of harder endurance useage at low levels.

So, in a nutshell, in a sentence or two, what are the results of the change? With damage, end, and recharge going up, is it the same damage over time only it feels like more? Or is it really more? Did the end cost actually go up? Does it feel slow?

I just havent had time to get on test (life keeping me busy) but I'd like to know what I'm in for when I get a chance go jump back in (which will be post I15, most likely).

Thanks,

Lewis

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What a lot of people fail to realize is that they are doing way more damage outside of domination then they were probably even in double domination or even at the cap. I will use one power to test with and that is Power Bolt.

Power Bolt Dom pre i15 - 36.15 base, 97.61 Slotted (ED cap) + Domination, 144.6 is the damage cap

Power Bolt with i15 buffs - 69.73 base, 135 Slotted (ED cap)

So in a nutshell base damage has far exceeded that of pre i15 base damage + domination by a lot, the end issues are not that bad if you take stamina or have an end recovery power. The recharge on powers is only noticable at lower levels when enhancements don't do much and you don't have much of an attack chain.
(End of Nutshell)

Now for my .02 inf, So far I have taken an Earth/Fire Dom to 10 bout as fast as I took a brute with not many issues and at 10 you have a pretty decent attack chain, end is still an issue though but for most of my toons end is an issue until DOs.

Overall you are doing a lot more damage and it is great.

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Well, take into account if pistols are used in this manner...

https://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthre...ue#Post13597821

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You are not even shooting the gun until level 26 that is a wasted weapon, you might as well give him a bat or an umbrella.

Hard to say, I know I want to do either a Earth/Fire, Fire/Fire, or Earth/Thorn. So far it is looking like Earth/Fire though, don't have and Earth Controls past 12 and I want to see how poo man does, and I want to see how /Fire does. Plus I got one in test that I refuse to keep playing because I am mad that I can't bring him live.

Before that I may take my Grav/Elec to 50 but I am not too concerned about that one as he will be going Rouge

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You need to take into account that pistols and rifles are two very different types of weapons:

Rifles have long barrels and use large charges of powder in their cartridges. Because of the greater power behind the bullet and more spin imparted by the long barrel, a rifle can be accurate up to a kilometer +

Pistols have short barrels and use heavier bullets with less powder in the cartridge. eyesight and targeting equipment can not overcome gravity. For all intents and purposes, a pistol is basically a melee weapon because it is only effective at close range.

Look it up

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It doesn't matter normal max range for a ranged attack is about 80ft, getting hit with a bullet at that distance is still effective if you don't think so test it.

Here it is. For both Widows and Bane they both get unsuppressed defense values of 7.5%.

The difference between the two is that Widows lose 5% and Banes only lose 3.75% when supressed, one of the other advantages of Bane stealth.

Ok that did it sorry for wasting time.

I am trying to spec my level 8 Warshade using the freespecs we get since we are getting a new one soon. However, each time I try to do it I get that message going to re log and see if that fixes, but if anyone else has had this issue let me know if there is anything else I can do please.

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i15 is the most useless issue they have ever put out

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When compared to all the other issues they have published since your reg date of 6-11-09 that is saying alot.

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Dont be naive,Q. Many people are enflamed enough to use trial accounts to post after cancelling.Besides? Thats a petty remark and off topic!!

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Never knew one AT meant so much to so many people.

/Energy, seems balenced for the most part.

/Fire, is shafted

/Ice, seems balenced except for Ice Sword Circle

/Psy, Mind Probe seems balenced, I think the rest of the set is unbalenced to the extreme buff of TK thrust.

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It might just come down to preferred playstyle;

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This is pretty much it.

I like the way a Bane Spider plays feels like a melee/defense/support/control set. Kinda feels like a Dominator (My favorite non-epic AT hands down) with Stalker benefits or vise versa. I love the great melee damage, the hp buff, pets, controls, etc. Never a dull moment.

With the Widow it is nice great attack damage great defense decent debuffs. It is alright.

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Good for taking aggro, and increase DPS and whatnot.

You know what would be awesome? If they changed it to Summon Executioner. You spawn a single boss level Bane Spider Executioner to aid you in battle.

Or maybe a troop of three or so bane spider minions -1 below you.

It would fit the concept better I think.

A man can dream, a man can dream....




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That is a pretty good dream too.

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And so far I am loving the Mind/Energy combo. Even at low levels you have the option for tons of control and damage now. If you get hit with 5 mobs, you can sleep one, hold another, confuse another toss another in the air and kill the last one while the other mez effects wear off.

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I love the way you think.

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I'm still floored by how much damage /nrg does now. I'm 3-shotting +2 Minions with RANGED attacks, not even using Power Burst in some cases. With Total Focus, I can 2-shot +2s by finishing off with Power Bolt. I can 3shot +2 LTs with TF>BS>PBurst. This is amazing. Oh and don't even get me started on what happens when you use Reds. Reds now beef you the F up. I've been impressed by how much WHIRLING HANDS does when you use reds. These buffs are Fing awesome. I still can't wrap my head around the idea of Doms having the second highest ranged and melee mods in the freaking game, but wow, there it is.

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I never thought /Energy would be this good either not in a million years. Glad it didn't take that long though

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Ok, i would like to know what the hell is wrong with the developers for this game. Are you serious? taking the damage off of domination...?????? WE ARE DOMINATORS.... WE DOMINATE..... should keep the damage buff. oh and PSW....? why would u lower the dmg on that?????? its A TIER 9 POWER.... its supposed to be.... good.... good job Devs. oh and positron.... GG ON NERFING AE.... the most tarded thing you've done....

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Amusingly, the "damage nerf" to Psychic Shockwave just about evens out when you consider the damage buff to Dominators as a whole. Instead of dealing with highs and lows, now you get a consistent high. Plus you don't have to wait 38 levels to stop sucking. Now you're about even with other secondaries from level one. How cool is that?

You know, I'm not trying to be mean to you Dominator players out here, but you guys should take a look at how Stalker players reacted to their buff and try to model your posts off them. And think: You guys got an even better buff, in my opinion.

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You know what, I don't like A_C like that, and I still top the ignore list for A_C, but this is a great point.

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Ooh, with Mind/Nrg or Plant/Nrg you can encounter both of the uninformed PUG mantras -- "Confusion costs us xp" and "KB is ebil"!

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Never thought about it like that. but teams don't mind the ST KB it is when you scatter a whole mob that makes Tanks and Brutes get angrier.

Do you want to be an AoE monster or ST monster?

I would say Energy is a good balence, but don't know how you feel about the KB. I has a good Blastery Monster feel too it, I loved it as my first Blaster, but got accedently deleted off of my account and I went Fire/Fire instead to 50, nothing I would recommend for a beginner.

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So it does 4 less dmg but recharges 4 seconds quicker and costs 3.4 end less? That's nice, I like that.

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Indeed, but the live version benefits from domination +dam and buildup. The test version only has buildup to improve it.

And outside buffs of course.

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Build up offers a better benefit to the test version as the test version has more base damage to build up.

You know what, I was about to make a long drawn out list of why VEATs are better than HEATs, but the only thing I can tell you to do is to play them both to 50, and I can put money on it that you will have a much easier time with a VEAT than you will a HEAT as I have a level 50 Bane Spider and Widow that both probably made to 50 in the time it took my PB to make it to 30. Oh yeah play on an all VEAT team and an all HEAT team let me know which one you like better.

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In pve you'd want to stack stuns so I'd go with grav/nrg.

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I would think that Fire/Nrg would be better for stacking stuns as they get their AoE stun a little bit earlier than grav.

Not about dealing damage anymore, just the mez protection and extra mag on holds.

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What we have to realize when rationalizing the hiccups in these changes is that:
people won't sit there and calculate - well I'm doing 10% more dps now even when not attacking for 3 second gaps then I was in issue 13. They just won't.
They WILL - spam powers in non-optimized ways until they run out of end at the third spawn and then start [censored] that they are end pigs.


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In fairness, brute players have been spamming attacks... and running out of end, and [censored] about it, for years.

As far as I can tell, it hasn't stopped them from playing brutes.

It's amazing how well you can put up with endurance issues if you hide them under a large enough pile of bodies.

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Finally someone says it, putting this on the sig too.

With the new patch that is now hard to determine. I think all the primaries are now on even terms as far as secondary most would probably say /Psy due to the fix for PSW not making it a real tier 9 power anymore but the set still has a grea drain psyche so for me very hard to determine. Used to be /Energy but it has gotten some much needed love.

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This conversation is really between the fortunata and the bane spider. i chose fort, and here's why:

1- Fort, psi damage hardly gets resisted, when compared to the widow's lethal damage.

2- Fort, has a single target hold, immob and KB. soloing -vs- small mobs you'll have plenty of mitigation, and if things get tough you'll have psychic wail (more mitigation with the stun). Plus you can also work the confuse into the build if you want more mitigation.

3- Fort, they get in less trouble at range, and you have a couple AoE/Cones from which to choose that can do more group damage to a larger mob. But otherwise i think its a wash. As long as you take your leadership(s) you'll be a welcome member to a team.

4- they both suck before 24, but when you respec at 24, you can have your whole attack chain for a Fort (subdue, dominate, TK blast, confuse) very quickly. You wont have to wait for crowd control at 32 after your respec, and you wont be tempted to take anything from your soldier pools.

5- they are equally survivable, since the fort can have mind link, and the bane gets a pile of resistance. they both get both leaderships and the standard epic defense. My 50 Fort runs about 63% def to melee/range/aoe when mind link is up (about 20 second downtime).

The Bane spider and fort are awesome toons to solo, and after 24 they're VERY fun. The Fort will be more rewarding sooner, and PvP's much more easily. however, for pure fun placate/crowd control is freaking awesome from the bane. You'll prolly want to roll one of each

hope that answers your questions.

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I already know this is going to bring controversy.