Chase_Arcanum

Precisely. I can see a full female spacesuit, for example, based on the style that wins in the polls, then someone doing a skirt that fits that style as an add-on. You wouldn't want a separate vote on that, as it may result in a skirt that doesn't fit well with the rest of the parts.

They're selling a collection of costume pieces at a discount to what it would be if you bought each piece separately. What they decide to offer is their discretion. Just because something exists and would fit doesn't mean you're entitled to it.

They're the ones defining the bundle. Heck they could throw in a minotaur and cyclops-appearance temp power at their discretion if they so chose.

Look at the pack as the sum of all its parts and see if its worth it. If it isn't, don't get it.

Doesn't mean much- only those that object to the strategy have any reason to post anything. FWIW, I don't see any issue with this whatsoever. Seems to be a good way to strike a balance between the two interest groups.

Posts like this make me miss the 5-star system.

This is the tactic I'd probably take.

My main's an illusion/kinetics controller because it seemed the best way (at the time) to represent a general-purpose sorcerer. If, in a future release, they offered something better, I'd seriously consider transferring the original character to another server and rerolling to avoid losing any special badges.


I've been tempted to reroll one character (Shandora Ward)-- currently my most "incarnate" character-- now that street justice is out. Street Justice/Willpower would be so much more like her original, grittier vision (she started as one of my NPC's for a Pen-n-Paper game). Neither was around when she was created, so I 'morphed' the vision slightly to a more disciplined & agile martial arts / super reflexes. Over time those nuances bled into her personality. She's "grown" into a very different character than that original vision... not sure if I want to take her back there or not.

Then again, the "incarnate" path doesn't seem at all right for her either, so maybe another round through the levels is about all the play that character concept will ever have...

Don't know if you're currently keeping tabs... unless you've lumped every rational response people have had that disagrees with you as a "snarky rebuttal" but from the tally here, I'd suggest you amend your initial post

(see italics) You continue to act as a spokesperson for a group that you do not represent. More of us have shown that we already did know, understand, and accept the rationale for these powers as they are. We even shared that information in prior posts. We did not need someone to waste the devs' time making demands purporting to be on our behalf. Please do not pretend to speak for anyone other than yourself...


...especially when you choose to insult and provoke:

Well, there are several possibilities here, but one of Cryptic's database guru's used to have a blog, and he talked there alot about using object-based databases, rather than relational tables, so its possible that our assumption that this is even sql-driven is incorrect.

Granted, I don't buy the "too much of a pull" issue either. If it was, you'd compensate by not doing a realtime on-demand pull of the latest data. Rather than hit the database every time someone requests the webpage, publish a static webpage with the stats every time a character (for example) logs out. Nothing's going to change until the next log-in anyway....


HOWEVER- you have to remember that things like the database core would be some of the first pieces of code assembled, that CoH was the team's FIRST foray into building an MMO, and that the scalability of database systems back then was frequently in question.

You can still find press releases hilighting the odd innovations some vendors were doing to handle demand like using a full flash-memory system with a custom allocation system to get fast enough responses. I've also heard horror stories from a former MMO developer on how a database on a major title didn't reach a fraction of the vendor's promised thoroughput, leaving them "gutting every call they could" after their first stress went an unexpected direction (let's just say that they succeeded on the "stress" part).

It is very possible that the CoH database system is rigged enough that they can't be compared directly to what we work with in business or web development.

I was preparing my own appraisal of Anonymous, but this covers it rather well.

I expect the gold will be baked in

I can see some risk in the "native american" set, though I WOULD like to have some.

- as you say "more can be had" with a discussion. My selection there would already require more pieces than any one pack and wouldn't cover enough bases to satisfy many (and be WAY off for others). A "native american" pack is bound to have broad expectations that aren't met, so that makes conceptualizing and valuing such a pack difficult.

- The press issue- "native american" characterization is a touchy subject that's easy to get negative press about. Any costume pack would by its nature have to select a few iconic elements to focus on, and that's bound to get those that lament over the generic misrepresntation of native americans in a tizzy if not VERY delicately-managed.

- The design- If you go for a full "costume set" design, you're going to end up choosing one person's definition of native american over another's- Do you focus on Turok's leather-and-bone that (to me) reflects some northeast tribes or the more colorful symbols that you see in some of the southwest tribes' rituals?

- Many of my examples had a more 'accessory' feel where some native american elements appear integrated with more modern styles. The way current "sets" are done really works against this method, but I'd love to have this kind of "accessory pack*" that blends in better with other costumes. mixes of native american head detail (headbands, headdresses, earrings, facepaint patterns, etc), shoulder detail (pelt shoulder elements, upper-arm feather bands, etc), chest details (the bone-chestpiece) and weapons (tomahawk, bow, etc) and tassles* (upper arm, glove, boot, belt).

*This would be my preference, but it lacks the overall look that the devs seem to be gravitating to. I'd love to see this just as an array of items that work well with other stuff in other packs- along with the superhero-accented suits, I could see these style pieces working for the barbarian sets, the animal sets, and the gunslinger packs, potentially drawing more sales of these packs as more costume concepts bring them together.

**Tassles also pose a problem, visually they'd be rather immobile and sticklike. It would be ideal to have them flow and shift in an almost mini-cape like manner, but not technologically feasible. You're left with making them shorter and less striking than preferred just so their obvious stiffness doesn't cause aesthetic issues.


Anyway, the point of all this was just to say that yes, while there may be an obvious interest in such a pack, there isn't always an obvious path forward... or a better place down the path for such things to appear (we have 4-legged critter animations, animal packs, barbarian-themed packs, and a new zone that hilighted art styles for different wilderness areas... all of which might be used as building blocks toward new wilderness zones in the future where such styles could REALLY find a fit.)

What do you mean by Native American?

Do bones, leather, and facepaint cover it?, like Manitou Dawn or Turok?
Or is leather-and tassles in a traditional superhero cut costume like Dawnstar? acceptable?
Are we talking about subtle accents like Echo's arm feathers and paint? or moonstar's feather earrings?
(tangent- Moonstar cannot be a cat owner. No cat-owner would allow feathers that close to their jugular... just saying)
Maybe something more Marvel-y in its representation?
or this?
or more Mike Grell-styled?


Native American is a pretty broad topic area, so I'm curious about what you'd want in such a clearly-desired pack.

You... scare me... when you're on one of your highs-- though the attitude meshes with your forum avatar rather nicely

Aw, man, and I had such high hopes for those on my signature character...


Seriously, though, good to hear.

Eh, I think we'll already see a pick up of the story soon enough- they've talked about tying up the Praetoria arc and moving on to other Incarnate threats. Most of those trials never seemed very "incarnate" for story. They always felt like trials & events that were originally written for lower-level heroes/villains and then were loosely ported to "incarnate" stuff to appease the people clamoring for endgame content. They'd have been pretty neat trials for all my level 15-35 characters, but they really don't seem to fit the story of "being an incarnate" very well.

Once we move to the shivan and or Rularuu, things will see better. Heck, if you took the core mechanics of the existing trials but just changed the story to match the expectations for "incarnate" most of these complaints would be moot.

(Except mine- I'd still prefer more trial-like events spread throughout the full range of trials (maybe a new one unlocking every 5 levels) than a single new step in the Incarnate system.)

As noted, "epic" applies to the archetypes being more tied to the game's lore- thus more closely tied to the game's story. Regular archetypes have rather broad latitude to their backstory and lore but the epics are more closely tied to the game world and backstory.

Regarding your other concern (their popularity)... epics were also supposed to be special beasts that work best in teams. The devs didn't want to make the "tank mage" or "jedi" (aka SWG's hologrind) mistake where the archetype was so powerful that it eclipsed all the others. Instead, they sought to make these archetypes require others to really shine.

Kheldians, for example, draw energy off their teammates. A Kheld, solo, can be a bit of a challenge, but each additional non-kheldian added to the team adds to the kheldian's abilities, making a Kheldian in a well-built team fit your working definition of "epic" rather well.... but only when other archetypes are available.

Arachnos Soldiers/Widows have a similar setup that compliments others archetypes well. They have a lot of leadership-style team buffs. When you're solo, these don't stack up to anything very remarkable just like a solo arachnos NPC isn't much to behold. Get a team working together, buffing one another, though, and things get epic rather quickly.

WoW (and many other MMO's, to be honest) also has single-handed weapons sized in such a way that no human could possibly wield them single-handedly and stylized in ways that they wouldn't be functional regardless.



Granted, the general 'suspension of disbelief' of the superhero genre means that any and all of that are valid ideas here.

I have this great superhero-y idea for a telekinetic weapons-master that dual-wields titan weapons with his mind while using a shield to protect himself and I won't be satisfied with the devs until they stop preventing me from playing the character I want to play.

I don't think anyone ever made any argument that this was balance-related.

This is mainly just an issue that-
-You need to make an alternate animation set for each attack powerset to make it compatible with shield. That takes resources, and no small amount of them.
-Some powersets- which conceptually or logically use two hands for their attack- make less sense than others to be paired with shield. Rethinking these sets as to be shield-compatible becomes even more work and of questionable value.
-Resources are finite.
-Resources invested in that item of questionable value are resources NOT done in something less questionable.

No, they still have better things to do with their time and resources

You just inspired my next Deadlands campaign.


...
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... or maybe not... thinking about the pen-n-paper players I've got available nearby... I'm now terrified of how that would turn out.

Good to hear, Z.

This made my day.

And, just an FYI, if you guys ever decided to offer previously-tinted pieces as one-shot purchasables on the paragon market (not part of the original pack) I, for one, would not object one tiny bit. I'd just be happy to have stuff I can more easily mix-n-match.

Makes sense, sorry if it seemed to be correcting ya-- the thread's a bit of a mess to see who argued what when.