Cardiff_Giant

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You're relatively punished for running the ITF, LRSF, STF, and LGTF under the new system. These are generally more difficult to successfully complete for the average team than older, longer, grindier TFs but give as little as half the rewards of them.

[/ QUOTE ]...once again, you missed my point. It's still a reward. Whether you think it's worth it, that's a different story...but it's not "no reward to speak of".

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"Ever the fraking apple polisher!" - (Azrael, Former Muse)

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[ QUOTE ][*]Replace the salvage cost of empowerment buffs with a straight brainstorm cost?

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This is a bad idea, as things stand. Brainstorms are a limited resource. Past I13, base salvage no longer drops. Which means we can't make new brainstorms. Which means that at some point in the future there won't be any more to use.

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Is this really a good idea though?

IMO, it's not - especially for new players or 'returnees' - 1 more legacy item they CAN'T have?

Yeah, that's not confusing or the slightest bit disparaging at all... *sarcasm*

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Personally I think the new rent system is great. When they originally reduced rent so that starting plot sizes had no rent this encouraged numerous players to create personal sg's to store their enhancements, inspirations, & special salvage. This took a hit on the sg concept of it being a group & took a hit on recruitment.

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Yeah, because it's the most desirable way for most people to build a base - rent free, functional, secure storage, not having to share base Editing Permission - (And maybe lose functionality when someone else wants to redecorate, or whatever... No Thanks.)

If they ever find a way for us to have a "personal" base with storage and all the workshop stuff & decorate - then join a "Big Group" SG in addition, sure I'd join one, till then I'm going solo 99% of the time or more.

If I can still have my 'Bat-Cave' all to myself, I'll meet up with people in the 'Hall of Justice' (or wherever) to do stuff from time-to-time, no sweat - it might even be fun?

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My fear was that in i13 by changing salvage racks to providing additional invention salvage, the trend of personal bases would explode making it even harder for actual sg's to survive, particularly on smaller servers. The new rent structure adds a price for having a personal sg base, this alone might prevent the trend from growing more rapidly then before.

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You're funny!
I'm sorry for the snarkyness, but there's no way in the world, I'm sharing a Base I intend to store IO's (and now Salvage) in - unless a RL friend starts playing again (and that ain't likely - afaik they're still off playing WoW with - Capt. Kirk, Mr T. and Ozzy) and I'm not about to let them futz with the Base Editor or my Set IO's right away either.

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In the end however, I only expect the rent system for i13 to only slightly curve the formation of new personal sg's as the maximum rent can be covered by simply running 1-3 paper missions with a level 30 or higher (very conservative estimate).


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Unless they seriously raise the Number of "Storage Items" allowed in a Base, or fix the "theft bug" so that we can drop items into Coalition Storage.
Then, I'm seriously looking at finally breaking down and getting a 2nd account - just so I can have 2 Characters on at the same time to swap - Recipes, Salvage & IO's with.

And have a 2nd Toon to "duo" with... a Support or Buffer-type character with some of the "Ally Only" Powers I don't particularly ENJOY taking most of the time.

And be able to Invite New Alts into a SG, when I roll a new Alt at 3AM, or after I've added a Character slot to a Server, or that kinda thing.

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Prestige Refunds: The programming team has set up a refund system for all base plots, rooms and items. As soon a player loads into a base, that base will automatically refund the Prestige difference.

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Awesome! "I13: City of Happy (Basebuilding) Campers"
You just made a bunch of friends here, 'Thank You So Very Much' is an understatement on this one.

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Teleporter recipes: The Rare salvage requirement on these should be removed in the next patch.

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Very Nice, Plasma Capacitors won't be the new Luck Charms.


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A. Bases were priced in a way that prevented many players from accessing the larger size bases they would like to build.

The goal here was to allow everyone to build larger and more interesting bases on a smaller budget. (I’m really looking forward to seeing all the new base pics!)

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More Awesome, with a side of reality!

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Q. What has been re-priced?

A. Primarily the Plots, Rooms, and many Energy and Control items. Plots received a large reduction in cost, and rooms were significantly reduced. The cost of energy and control items is also reduced, and is now based on the amount of energy and control they provide.

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Me likey, there's still a bit of a 'barrier of entry' getting the first 300-600K, but that can be worked-around to some extent with alts.
*Note* Having a way to invite your own alts into a new or existing SG to access and contribute Prestige to the Base without needing help from people (with an open slot on that server, and the time available, and who are around at odd hrs), would be a very nice "goodie".

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Q. Base salvage, why replace it, and what will happen to it?

A. Base salvage has little value to most players. Since there are a limited number of base items to construct, once those items are built there is little need for any further base salvage.

As a result, base salvage tends to either gather dust on salvage racks, or be a source of confusion with Invention salvage. Base salvage will not be removed though, so anything not converted to Brain Storm tokens will remain in game.

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Sorry, I just don't buy by the confusion thing:

But back in I12 Beta, I DO however - recall a couple of apparently new (Friends & Family-maybe?) players getting their first piece of Base Salvage at the end of one of Kalinda's Missions & being Momentarily "Confused" and then more likely the problem, Majorly Disappointed that they hadn't just gotten a piece of potentially uber-valuable "Lewt" - it seemed they'd obviously heard (somebody), Talking about getting rich of selling "Salvage" - and we're hoping they'd just hit the jackpot at level 5 (or 7?)

Anywho, Removing the salvage conversion in the worktables (when each a table only has a pair of tier 1 , 2 or 3 components it can convert) and making the primary way to Convert Base Salvage into Base Components, = via an Empowerment Station, would've made more sense (IMO) and adding a note somewhere about 'filtering out recipes missing ingredients' would have solved most of the "confusion".

(That and of course... changing the Reward message to be more clear -as everyone has mentioned for a month or so.)

For some Crafted Base Items, this will be kinda nice - like the Tier 2 & 3 Empowerment Stations, they currently call for quite a few Base Components - although its mostly tier 1 stuff. *shrug*


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Q. Salvage Storage Racks, Why only 30 pieces of invention salvage?

A. In short, the market. The market system is designed to have a steady supply of salvage coming in. If large salvage racks were added, it would create a temporary supply problem of unknown duration until the salvage racks filled up.

Since having salvage temporarily dry up would be a big problem for all players, this number was intentionally kept low. Once the impact on the markets as a whole can be measured, we will look at adjusting these numbers again.

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I've heard that "not many people were using Empowerment Stations". I'm not sure how or when that info was garnered/data-mined? Nor just how much/often the people who were using them - did so?

I know some people used them enough - that other people were creating them and selling them for a "tidy bit of Inf" regularly. (I believe these were mostly rich PvP'ers that 'couldn't be bothered to make the components themselves' or wouldn't (they'd rather just pay 10K, 30K, 50k+ for them.)


[u]Aside from that, there are a few things that would/will affect this that don't seem to be taken into account.[u]

First off, (and this is a Biggie), people will no longer be able put in cheap (ore semi-cheap) bids for dozens of stacks 10 Common
Invention Salvage & go "Convert Invention Salvage into Base Salvage" =Components, with them at a 6 to 1 ratio for commons.
And then either resell them on the market or dump them in a 2500 item Bin.
And If they had bought low-level commons that would convert into the most frequent AND commonly used Tech Material, Tech Power, Mystic Element & Mystic Foci - they're (or were) valuable!

Because they were used in nearly everything, (Items & Empowerments) Interestingly & somewhat "confusingly" - The Tier 2 Components were worth a semi-decent amount (but normally less than Tier 1's), and Tier 3's were worth even less (almost worthless by comparison).

Some players would actually buy Base Salvage and (knowing the Conversions pretty well, the common ones by heart)- or that we could set the filter to only show us the conversion options we HAD the salvage for - if working with the more 'Rare' sorts Base Salvage.

All this Converting counted as a craft towards "Fabricator" - that and the fact that lvl 50's running outside of SG mode to make up the Inf difference by grinding for Inf awhile to just buy whatever Base Components they needed for Empowerments rather than getting Base Salvage in SG mode and hassling with converting it.

And this also lead to people buying up common salvage to Convert to Base Components for Empowerment Stations (even if they weren't working on their "Fabricator" Badge, & more costly - to enough people it was simpler & easier to do it this way. And they could say it "helped the Invention Salvage Commons Market" too.

WITHOUT people "Converting Invention Salvage to Base Salvage" there should be significantly more commons on the Market - Even with Empowerment Stations running off Invention Salvage - (it won't be converted at a 6 to 1 ratio first!)


Secondly, having Empowerment Station run on Invention Salvage - doesn't seem to be super "market friendly" really to me...

People will still delete Commons & Uncommons, OR sell them off to their Auto-Doc or a vendor = rather than bother going to put them on the market

Dual builds will increase salvage demand some, as will some of the Base Item Crafting - but the 1 hour Empowerment Buffs are going to eat through Invention Salvage faster than anything.

And it's semi-likely that if we're paying Rent on the Empowerment Stations and they're "less complicated" now their usage should/will in theory Increase, but it'll be at much less than (6 to 1) *X. "X" being the old number of components built with commons - people mostly used Commons at (6 to 1)*X & maybe some Uncommons at (4 to 1) *X, nobody in their right minds used Rares at (2 to 1)*X.


[u]Other factors:[u]
Salvage Rack will eventually fill up - and it'll probably be pretty damn quick, not matter how large you make them or how many we're allowed to place.

Brainstorms are going to add more Common Salvage than people will be able to Store in 30 Item Bins - even 18 of them - and people will likely just get Enhancement Tables, some Inspirations Bins, and 1 or 2 Salvage Racks...

That they'll use to transfer Salvage over to "Storage Mules" - like Lvl 50's they don't play anymore or make a number of small bases on their extra account(s).
IF you keep it at 30 per Bin, Players WILL do this because they'll feel it's necessary!
Not all players of course, but many of them...


Letting Salvage Racks hold an amount of storage players would be happy with - would eliminate/reduce the Muling (logging & relogging) & unhappy players.

If players DON'T FEEL "forced to mule", they likely won't bother to do it. But if they DO, then you oughta know that they're gonna be "pulling out all the stops" when they do it!

Surely, you guys realize this... right??

NOTE - Just to be crystal clear, I'm not saying "players will be forced to mule", I'm saying - they're likely to feel that way with Salvage Bins 'nerfed down' to 30 Items, and they're gonna react accordingly.

Edit: corrected to read 'Auto-Doc', not Robo-Surgeoon
/doh!

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Poster: IronTiger
Q: Why do pool D random recipes cost more than pool C random? The price for a specific pool D is the same to a Pool C in most cases.

A: The cost of pool D rewards are higher due to the significantly higher likelihood of getting the desired enhancement with a single roll. Taskforce reward tables have substantially more items on them than Trial reward tables.

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You are aware that by that logic, Task Force random drops should cost something like 2 Merits, not 20?

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I gotta agree -(maybe not on the precise numbers), but there seems to be a breakdown in the logic here somewhere...

And, I think some industrious players will figure out a way to do both "Rabbit-runs" and then "Turtle-Runs" - they find a way to game the average data-mined times.

FWIW, I almost never Team, I' like to group for "Zone Invasions" (Rikti & Zombie) and that's about it really.

I'm of the opinion that one of the M's in "MMO" is for misanthrope - you know, those people that like to stay home in a hermit like manner, playing games on their computer for hours & hours!

I have lots of free time to play but - it's frequently interrupted time - I have to "drop what I'm doing" and attend to other things - ALOT...

This makes me a poor teammate to start with, and that along with the many other reasons mentioned here about "soloing" being more rewarding - I agree, the XP "Bonus" for teaming is a disincentive IMO.

The thing I love about Merits is that I can get them outside of TF's!
I'm really happy that I'll finally have a way to get the more desirable recipes I want - that doesn't mean spending 100's of millions of inf - that I've never had all at once.

Partially due to my Alta-holism, Base Building, and playing the markets some but not enough to outspend the 'status quo' marketeers, and admittedly its also largely due to the fact that, after 4 years of playing (of and on) I still don't have a 50.

I'm okay with that - heck I haven't even seen a few of the upper level zones, and I haven't been through (=exhausted) all the stories/content yet!

Yeah, It blows when trying to out spend people who are playing with lvl 50's most of the time. But the bright-side/reward for this is pretty fraking AWESOME though = I'm not at all bored with the game yet!

As noted above - the existing drops ALREADY tend to be better solo than in a group, and having Merits for story arcs only be awarded for the mission holder is a really bad idea - FOR most players that is... It'll make solo'ing all that much more common.

Which is kinda nice for ME, It means I can come out of my "perma /hide" more often - without feeling like an [censored] every time I try to explain & say "Nope sorry, I really don't want to run mishes OR team up for killer XP fighting/doing (whatever)."

I don't get why MY TIME playing running Story Arcs (and hopefully 'regular missions' will have some Merit Reward) is worth 1 merit per 12.5 mins. and people running Task Forces' TIME is worth 1 merit per 5 mins.

I DID read this:
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The reason for this major difference is due to the considerable time and effort Task/Strike Forces can take to set up and complete, so naturally these tasks grant a much greater reward.

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But I'm at bit of a loss here... I'll explain,


I know some of the market folks decided a few months back that the market was understocked with "desirable recipes" so they started a (iirc) "Market Liberation" group.

They setup, and planned scheduled TF Run's on certain days each week, they had several threads about it - organizing teams to do this on different servers and timezones & whatnot.

They setup specific characters designed to team together, and even had some characters that they setup with builds meant to run specific TF's!

The first time Dual Builds were Mentioned I saw people talking about having 1 build for TF "A" and a 2nd build for TF "B".

Obviously they were going to get better at doing the TF's and do them faster & faster with practice - especially when they're doing the Runs with the same general set of players (or from a relatively small group regular "Runners" participating in their endeavor).

So they're "Average Times" are bound to go down, right?

SO... [u]Because - they've essentially done the smart thing and put in the[u] [ QUOTE ]
considerable time and effort Task/Strike Forces can take to set up and complete

[/ QUOTE ] [u]before hand and in a "work smarter not harder style", organized a group of players to do this regularly - thus eliminating some of the standard hassle.[u]

INSTEAD of a haphazard (aka) "Pick-up group" manner.
i.e. = (Having to go through that same hassle with a new group of random people - every stinking time they want to run a TF!) - All of those players - AND EVERYONE ELSE is being penalized for it?

Please, Explain to me how that's fair?

Or better yet - remotely logical? =*Its so many kinds of freaking wrong, I'm not even sure how to feel about this...*

[u]Base Repricing[u]
1) How will the repricing of bases affect you personally?

For my Sg & 1 (maybe 2) VG's with enough prestige that are mostly maxed out with all the Function items and storage they can hold on 8x8 plots.
So if I rebuild it means I could expand them up a plot size or two. I also might be able to add a couple more Teleporters, IF I can afford to increase my Power & Control - as well as the plot size AND add larger TP room(s) & the extra TP's themselves.

I've got 18 storage items in all these bases so - unless the Max # of storage is increased (like it should have been a year ago when they double the member limit), I'll get some extra space to decorate, some "extra" power & control items =mostly for looks, and some additional TP's hero-side & villain-side maybe some Defensive items for looks...

It also (apparently) means that any objects I've already built - that are in my "Add Personal Items" Inventory - were a waste of base salvage because they will have the "old" prices attached to them... I see no reason this couldn't be addressed.

For the other handful of smaller theme bases or coalitioned bases I have - it won't let me add much because none (or not enough) of the prices on the items in them - have changed to let me do much more with those bases.


2) Will you dismantle your base to gain the additional prestige from the repricing?
I HATE the idea of needing to, but it would be ridiculous not to - so I probably will - eventually.

3) How long would this process take you if you were to engage in this practice?

For the 2 largest & most decorated bases (1 SG & 1 VG) with lost of floating & decorations, I have no idea how long it'll take to rebuild them really.
I can't stop playing altogether and spend all my time in game rebuilding - or I'll get behind on making sure all my alts are logged in to check their/ping the market = so the toons don't lose everything in their Market slots...

So it'll be several weeks, at best before I'm able to redo things.
If I have to delete all the decorative items in every room that had previously used magic desks in them?
Then, I have no freaking clue. refloating things should be MUCH quicker than the old way, but sell off and buying back decorations could take many, many "Man-hours" & maybe months before I get around to redoing the 3 "big bases" I have.

4) What are the positive and negative concerns regarding repricing?
It seems that small bases & the "barrier to entry" really aren't being reduced by a significant amount.
i.e. You'll still need something like 300k to 500k for a small base with a few rooms & basics.

5) How will this feature affect you long term and short term?

Short Term: It means if I'm willing to put in a lot of time, place & delete some items I have pre-crafted but not placed(?) = then I can get a semi-decent "prestige rebate" for my Bases that 'need it' the least.

Long Term: I may be able to get a couple extra Enhancement Tables for my smaller groups/bases that can only afford a couple right now.
For the larger groups/bases - I may be able to get some of the larger Power & Control Items, although I may not have much use for them.
Villain-side - I may be able to add some defensive items for looks or if "PvE/NPC Raids" are ever implemented.
Hero-side - I'll be able to add some more TP's, and maybe some defensive items.



[u]Base Salvage Exchange to Invention Salvage[u]

1) What is the negative effect on your base for this feature implementation? The 30 Item Salvage Storage Bins are basically an Insult.
Empowerment Stations - will be way more costly to use - IF I use even them anymore?


2) What is the positive effect on your base for this feature implementation?

I can finally pass off Invention Salvage Rares to alts with recipes that need them, without needing a second account to do so (which btw, I've never had).

3) How long will it take you to adjust to learning this new system?

None.

4) What side effects to this system do you currently see from transitioning the old to new system?

Profiteering on the Markets - for the Invention Salvage required in the most common/desirable Crafted Base Items, and Empowerment Buffs.
(There are already threads in "The Market" forums about doing so - and other "Hey, Marketeers lets grief the Baseketeers " type threads.
i.e. Essentially = "We finally get to Market PvP vs. the Base Builders who want nothing to do with us, HAHAHA!")

5) What security concerns do you have regarding this change?

Personally - None, atm all my Bases are "solo"/personal bases.

But for many other players & "large SG fans" it will be an excrement storm - so to speak.
And will push even more people into foregoing joining SG's and forming their own so they can have their own storage space, instead of being forced to share [u]extremely insecure storage[u] - and much less of it at that


[u]Additional Notes:[u]
The Ridiculously Tiny 30 Item Salvage Bins will push more and more pragmatic players into ditching multi-player SG's altogether, and forming their own "personal SG's" - so they can build their own "solo-bases" to maximize their Invention Salvage storage space.

FWIW, Enhancement Tables & "all or nothing security" have already been doing this for at least a year.

Note: I'm fine with "solo-groups" filled with my alts.
Except for my inability to invite new alts into them without outside help...
I've just about decided to not bother with renewing my Tabula Rasa sub (the 1 year sub I paid for & mostly wasted is almost up) and get a 2nd CoX account for just that purpose.

Well, mostly... trading Recipes & "duo'ing" with myself, would just be a nice bonus - one that most folks serious about the game have already done, long ago.

There's a TON of stuff in Mr. Yin's store that would be great, seriously - there's even a fast-food style soda machine back in there on one of the shelves.

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Matt Miller:There is no better indicator that power is TOO powerful than the fact that a higher than normal amount of characters take it.

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or is just needed, e.g. Stamina.

Looking forward to I13 and I14!

/claps

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Or, it just might be - that players are good at picking the "best option" among a group of power choices.

It could also be:
The power taken disproportionately in relation to others is the one that sucks the least, the one that looks the coolest, or in the case of a Pool Powers - maybe its the one that's the "best/non-garbage choice" (you have to take) in order to get the power you really want later on...

Seriously, the idea that because a power is extremely popular - is somehow a direct correlation to that power being "broken" (as in 'too good'), is a pretty big assumption.

Even if a power is taken 'all the time' - I don't see how that means it's "too powerful".
One could say that the others are "too weak" perhaps?

I'm looking at you Flurry, Jump Kick, Boxing & Kick!
And for that matter - how about most of the Presence & Medicine Pools, and lets not forget - Group Fly, Team Teleport, and Whirlwind.

Heck, the entire Concealment Pool is kinda sketchy these days (IMHO) = you get the idea...

EDIT: Aside from that comment - "one way we know powers are too good..."

It wasn't a bad article, was great either - and I'm really hoping there is more than the Mission Architect in I14 - like a bit more Power Proliferation - maybe something semi-straight forward somebody mentioned AR Defenders, or maybe something close to a long requested Powerset - like a variant of (MM Thugs') Pistols for Blasters/Corrupters maybe?

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2) If a base editor currently has personal items - are those items still viable in i13 and if so - are they @ the old price or new price?

They retain all personal items in their inventory at old prices.

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So we have to craft them anew to take advantage of the new pricing?

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That's how it's working on Test right now, and it's also my 2nd biggest 'beef' ATM.
The 1st is them changing the salvage system right now, when they've apparently (possibly?) got other changes - of some sort coming down the road...

It could have waited & I still don't see why they either can't or won't be able to run a script to change any unplaced "Personal Items" in our inventories, with the new versions of those items!


I can see the argument about not being able to do it with placed items... for a handful of reasons - the most obvious would be issues trying to physically replace the "new items" in precisely the same spots they were before.

I think some items have had their size altered a bit, I deleted the mainframe & databases in my VG base on Test then replaced them with the new ones and they seemed smaller, I don't think it was my imagination.

But, for items that are just sitting in our "personal detail inventory" - I can't see what sort of issues that would cause...
Other than them possibly wanting us to absolutely HAVE TO USE UP SALVAGE in order to get the versions that are cheaper Prestige-wise

And they haven't even said anything about whether this would be a possibility, they haven't answered a single 'tough' question in a while now - maybe they are over on the "new/beta forums" IDK?

The Port Oakes Beacon is practically on top of the Registrar - so paying rent there isn't much of a hassle really & there's the "Abandoned Labs" aka a 'University' so it's more worth having a beacon there than it previously was...

(Although idk which DayJob - if any - is connected to that place?)
Pocket D is there to and we only have a handful of beacons to get Red-side compared to Blue-side, so it's not hard to get the all - even on the 8x8 plot.

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Part IV Upkeep

New Rent is calculated by certain items you have in base.

Enhancement Storage: 100 Prestige
Inspiration Storage: 100 Prestige
Public Salvage Storage: 100 Prestige
Empowerment Tables: 100 Prestige

For each item you have in your base of the above its 100 prestige.

This means the max rent most bases will have is approximately 2000 (as there is no reason to keep lower level empowerment stations aside from decoration)


Vaults do NOT have a prestige upkeep associated with them, so most will truly only see 1900 rent per cycle.

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Previously there were other items besides these that had upkeep, I wouldn't be so sure that the Rent is going to stay "negligible" by the time I13 goes Live.

I don't think they've mentioned this in patch notes (not that I recall) I would wait a bit - before rejoicing about this...

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A storage limit of 30 salvage is ridiculous.


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Why? It's considerably more community invention storage than you have now, and the amount of salvage needed to craft a given item is considerably less in the i13 system. If you allowed 2500, or 999, or even 100 invention salvage per rack, it would encourage hoarding to a degree that would seriously threaten the markets, especially red side. I think 30 is generous.

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The system is more complex than the old.


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Maybe this is because I'm new to the old system, but the new system seems much, much simpler to me. The old system dropped an incredible array of different salvage, most of which differed only in name and graphics. There were dozens of different recipes to craft completely identical components. And the components were indistinguishable from one another in purpose and character. It seems to me like a system of needless and totally arbitrary variety.

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You're wrong on both counts:

1. If they remove the "Convert Invention Salvage into Base Salvage (Actually Base components) from the Invention Tables - I'm certain the price of nearly all common & some uncommon salvage will drop significantly.

So many people buy up common salvage at less than vendor prices, to do this with - (buy the hundreds in many cases), that just removing this option/behavior would severely reduce the demand for salvage.

2. The only thing complicated about the Base Salvage was matching it up, IF you didn't know to select "filter out the recipes you lack the materials for" in the workbench or empowerment station - while building base components from the large variety of base salvage that exists.

Furthermore, some of us liked the variety & had the majority of the Component recipes committed to memory - and the recipes for Crafted Base Items only need an assortment of components from either the 6 types for Arcane or the 6 for Tech...

Granted some of the larger items required a lot of Base Components - and the new Base Item recipes require about the same as an IO.

Another problem is that the current setup STILL has Empowerment stations are still eating up Invention Salvage!

That's what people we're doing with "Invention Salvage converted to Base Salvage" (=components), several people had established "businesses" buying Invention & base salvage cheap and converting it into components to sell to other people - who used them to power their Empowerment Stations...

And many people also used that method to get Fabricator as well, but if they We're to KEEP Base salvage dropping only in SG mode - AND Rename it "Evidence", Clues, Calling Cards, or something other than "Salvage".

This would let people still get a bit more than just prestige for being in SG mode & it could keep the New "Brain Storming Ideas" mechanic in the game (& letting people turn "Evidence" into random salvage - that's something they should keep IMO.

If only to give people another way to work on Fabricator, its a new Game mechanic that involves chance & they're gonna have players that dig it and be bummed when all the "legacy" base salvage runs out - they could keep it going.

Plus, they could just keep the current bins as Evidence + (Special & Event Salvage) Bins & and put in a New "Invention Salvage Bin" - those should still hold more than 30 items!

Only the marketeers like the 30 item limit, enough people auto delete ALL uncommon salvage, & MOST Common salvage Except Luck Charms & a few other notables - saving their space for Rare Salvage while they're out running missions, street sweeping, etc.

Letting SG/VG's hold thousands of common/uncommon salvage wouldn't be a problem. (especially if it's gonna be used for the Empowerment Stations, Crafted Base Items, AND IO's Plus the extra Demand for Multi-builds.

Not all of us want to use the method folks in the Market Forums espouse of using "Market Storage" - where they just sell everything for 1 to 11 Inf and buy it back when the need it -"using everyone's salvage as one communal salvage pool" or whatever, because it's normally cheap (=comparatively/for most of their toons). To them it's - "chump, change", they real penny-penchers might bid and wait til the next day - normally they just overpay!

You have no idea how much common salvage gets deleted, vendor'ed (Because people refuse to waste market slots to sell it- unless they list it for 1 inf to sell asap = just to get progress on their Market Sales Badges), or bought up in stacks of 10 for 11 to 50 Inf & then converted into Base Components, that are resold or used for Empowerments.

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SO EXCITED! Jack Emmert said this would never ever happen ...

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So who wants to take bets on this being the biggest thing among that which was mentioned/hinted at in the Game Zone article?


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Matt: We view competition as a great thing. It’s nice for us and the players that we have almost five years of constant updates and new systems, and most new games will have a challenge competing with that amount of content out the gate.

But most importantly, having competition pushes us to look at our own game and see how we can improve City of Heroes and stay competitive. [u]You’re going to see a lot more features that we thought we’d never be able implement over the next year or so.[u] NCsoft has given us a tremendous amount of support and we think that these features (and others) are critical to keep our leadership position in the MMO market. In this way, the upcoming competition only makes us better as a team and as a product.

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Seriously, we should be able to see the blue message = "X items sold" (or whatever), each time we Exit to the Login Screen and then "Re-"Login into an Alt on that server.

As it is, It only seems to do this properly - when I Exit to the Desktop, then Re-Launch the game.

I think it will occasionally also work properly - if I Exit to the Login Screen & then Log back into an Alt on a different server than I was just on. But, I'm not certain that works reliably.

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The message stops showing up if you have "too many" things on the market. The display system essentially isn't able to handle a large number of items properly.

So, "how" you login shouldn't matter, it's a question of what (how much) the characters in question have on the Market.

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@Stargazer
OK, that's new info to me...
I would've sworn there was some issue with the client not always checking in with the Market server, but I don't doubt there is something like going on.

It would be nice to know how much is "too much".

Although - I'm not worried about seeing the numbers in the message.
I just want to see that message, because AFIAK that is an indicator that you've "officially" logged in that Character so far as the Market is concerned & you've reset the 60 day timer for that Character...



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I don't know how else to put it - the mechanics of "Day Jobs" appear to be very much at odds with the current incarnation of the 60 Day Market "Inactivity Wipe"...

Only for people who NEED to have their first badge the very first minute possible. And that's for people manipulating the market for extra storage, so I'm not crying for them anyway.

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@Really_Big_Bang
To be clear, I'm not really complaining about the 30 days to get whichever badge and another 30 for the second.

I was just saying that it doesn't seem particularly wise to have to have it setup at 30 + 30 days offline for the badge + badge = accolade. when 60 days is when the market would clear your Slots.

Let's just say I can see a fair number of people getting screwed - if they aren't careful (Surely, that's not just me?)
And yeah I do realize you'd have to login at 30 days and move to the second spot - I was 'just saying' *shrug*


Personally, I'm not on my PC right now - my PSU (on my Shuttle XPC which uses a non-standard PSU) went out on Sunday morning & I just FINALLY got the replacement in *checks watch*
About a half hour ago thankfully - IDK, if I'd have made it through the weekend without my PC *twitch* and of course all the new info was released when it was down, and I've had to wait till odd hours to borrow the office PC - just to check the boards.

I'm about to go do surgery on my Shuttle (gotta disassemble a lot of it to get to all the power connectors) and pray the PSU didn't takeout anything else with it - I'm fairly sure it didn't - it was just a 4 year old PSU.


BUT this relates to my point - IF something else actually did go out, and I couldn't/can't get it running again really soon - I could be fairly close to losing stuff on some of the servers I haven't played on much recently.

I'd been focused on trying to finish getting the Rikti Badges on my lesser played alts, during the Invasion last week & a lot of time on a Themed-(Alt) VG the week or 2 before that.

So, I'm fairly sure I'm getting pretty 'close to the wire' on a couple servers, and I'm gonna have to start logging in a bunch of Alts before they reach the cut-off (by the time I get through the rotation).

If I were worrying about where I'm logging out my Alts & having to go run to the market (to be "better safe than sorry") - And last I read about it, you pretty much have to visit the Market & open the UI to assure you don't lose stuff.

But this could really suck in combination with the new DayJob Logout Spots...
Now, I'm not a rabid badger, or worried about rushing to getting these new ones ASAP...
But when this goes Live, I'm going to want to Logout my Characters in the "right spots" I've picked for them & "needing" to run to the Market to keep my stuff, and then back - would get old quick!

Does that make more sense?
Am I alone on this one??

I really like the Day Jobs (Especially that the costumes don't need to be unlocked) But I do have a fairly major concern, that is... when managing my Day Job's progress - having to:

1. Login and make sure which Day Job I'm working on for that character.

2. Travel to one of the Markets - To make sure my stuff doesn't go 'POOF'!

3. Travel back to my "Day Job spot" for that character.

4. Log out (wait the 30 secs), and repeat...

If they're going to set these up in 30/60 day increments, I really hope they get the "issue" with the Client checking/contacting the Market Server at login "fixed".

Seriously, we should be able to see the blue message = "X items sold" (or whatever), each time we Exit to the Login Screen and then "Re-"Login into an Alt on that server.

As it is, It only seems to do this properly - when I Exit to the Desktop, then Re-Launch the game.

I think it will occasionally also work properly - if I Exit to the Login Screen & then Log back into an Alt on a different server than I was just on. But, I'm not certain that works reliably.

Day Jobs are going to make the whole deal of - Having to go and click on a Market NPC, and then wait for the Market UI to load up, in order to make sure that each specific Character's Market slots don't get wiped...

Its going to be a MUCH more noticeable headache/PITA with Day Jobs coming into play.

Right now - you can Logout near a Market & it's not all that big a hassle.
But, that will definitely change when your Logout Spot actually makes a tangible difference

Hopefully they'll do something about this...

There would seem to be a variety of ways to handle this, doing away with the "market wipe at 60 Days" being the most preferable.
IMO, just having it check that you've logged into your Account (within a certain time period) would be the most player friendly solution.

Especially since they're putting in this Reward/Bonus for NOT logging in Characters - it would seem to make sense that this current market setup/policy - runs contradictory to this new game feature.

(Regardless of whatever reason it was originally implemented - I've heard all the plausible reasons & I'm not arguing that there wasn't a necessarily a good reason/justification/idea behind &/or for it initially).

At this point it just seems to be in conflict with the spirit(?) of the "Day Jobs" Feature - which BTW, I'm not slamming at all. I really like what I've read about it so far.

I don't know how else to put it - the mechanics of "Day Jobs" appear to be very much at odds with the current incarnation of the 60 Day Market "Inactivity Wipe"...

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All joking aside - it was said elsewhere that Power Balancing changes wouldn't affect PvE at all.

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I think either what you read was incorrect or you misunderstood. I'm quite certain the PVE specific changes that were made for I13 will affect PVE, while 95% of the PVP changes have no effect on PVE (I say 95% to hedge my bets, actually.)

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To clarify, The "elsewhere" I mentioned was the "City of Heroes: Issue 13 Changes Interview" @MMORPG.com And it was Positron no you Castle... In the 3rd question/answer:



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MMORPG.com:
You mention the PvE and PvP Power Rebalancing. I’m curious as to whether this means that players will have to get used to different rules for specific powers depending on whether I’m in PvE or PvP?





Matt Miller:
Our powers team is only rebalancing the most “over-powered” powers and these balance changes only take effect in PvP enabled zones. [color=yellow ]These changes will not affect the PvE gameplay experience in any way.[/color]

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Yeah - that part I've highlighted in yellow there above M'kay.
Now, maybe this was an oversight on Posi's part... IDK?
I just wanted to point this out because, well 'cause I don't like to be mistaken.

To be fair:
Maybe MMORPG misquoted Positron slightly or he misspoke - not expecting said interview to be gone through with a fine tooth comb - what am I saying he knows darn well that when we get snippets of info - after an "info-drought" & much "thirsty-ness" (aka impatience for info/release of a new issue),

And this kinda thing WILL happen from time to time *shrug* - no matter how careful people are - there's no Edit or Preview Post in an interview!


As far as betting on which powers get changed - I'm gonna put some virtual Inf on The Concealment Pool - and granted, it's not a APP or PPP...

But, given the nifty Stealth IO's with no "self -speed penalty" and the change/nerf that made me Respec out of Phase Shift many moons ago, and Invis's "affect self only" versus a suppression or "breaking out of stealth" effect - which I also respec'd out oo - iirc I had it one slotted - although the multi-build thing might get me to reconsider this - but the expense of a 2nd build might dissuade me from doing so?

And does anyone still take Grant Invis? I think a few people still take it on teams to stealth each other with no speed penalty - but I'm not certain.
I normally solo so I couldn't say - I see some people have it in their info/powers list every now and then, but IDK if they really use it or not? But I do think a fair number of the people that still take this pool use this use it for PvP (the last changes to it were made due to PvP IIRC - and are AFIAK why it "sucks" so badly ATM) or they one slot Stealth for the spot to slot a Defense-based Set IO (like the Karma KB Prot. IO) - although I do still have stealth 3-slotted w/ Karma on my oldest Blaster just 'cause... I'm reluctant to change it.

*looks at watch* What am I still doing here? There's Rikti in the city! *poof*

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Yeah because I'm sure castle totally said nerf.



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To start, we rebalanced the Patron powers and the Epic powers that villains and heroes get so they're more in line with each other. We looked at what players were picking more often and changed some powers completely and pruned some powers.

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No Matt said "pruned" = Euphemism in it's purest form...

And he used the infamous phrase "more in line with" which is also a common way to say "nerfed the stuffing out of".

or roughly - "we changed stuff and we already KNOW y'all aren't gonna like it - but that's just tough luck sucker!"

And the infamous "We made some changes for er... uhm... Game Balance - Next question, (*whisper* quickly, please?!)"


All joking aside - it was said elsewhere that Power Balancing changes wouldn't affect PvE at all.
So, I'm guessing they aren't going to "Axe" any powers completely - or if they really do add or remove some powers they'll consider that something other than a "PvP Power Balance change" per se. IDK, we'll find out soon enough I suppose.

Hmm? Is it possible to bumpity bump this up so that any People (recently returning players maybe) who haven't seen it already will see it Today, BEFORE the Invasion Starts-up again!

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*Snip*
Folks, was no one paying attention to ANYTHING Lighthouse said about this? The ONLY reason they offered this jetpack up on the store is that they got a ton of comments from people WANTING the one that was offered with the time cards. This is simply giving us what WE WANTED. This does NOT imply that there will never be a jetpack costume part. If you don't want to spend $4.99 to have a 30-day temp power at level 1, THEN DON'T. C'mon, it's only providing an ancillary benefit for about 14 levels (EARLY LEVELS!). I think I can stand the inconvenience. Sheesh.

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There were a ton of comments from people that wanted the jet pack but ONLY if it was going to be permanent... But, NOT a $5 for 30 days "temporary power".

I think the forum monster ate the thread already, or I'd say go look at all the comments...

Maybe they'll offer a different type of Travel/Flight/Jump? (or whatever - so long as it's different than the one they just released) type pack that IS permanent - when/if the sales on the New "temp jetpack" don't go over very well?

And on the Cyborg costume options several of them look very similar to Exproto or Vanguard parts.

I too was hoping there would be some more Fleshy "Terminator"-style options.
Especially with "The coming storm" thing...
I was kinda hoping we'd get some options like that after I recently re-watched the first Terminator movie on cable.
It's one of the closing lines at the end - "there's a storm coming", oh well.
The self destruction power looks neat - esp. if it finally gives us a reason to use the self rez powers, and whenever they get the bugs worked out - I'll probably order the cyborg pack. They won't be getting money for the jetpack from me though.

Awesome 'Scooby Doo'

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First this is great news.

The forums had become anarchic of late with the snowflake posts about nerfs and the lulzy trolling as well, glad to see the mod-nukes are being armed.

I do have one question though:

Whenver I report an exploit (and boy have I in the past two months) the canned response tells me to discuss the issue on the forums.

If I find X produces an insanely quick reward thanks to an exploit, do I continue using the Petition feature and alerting Posi/Castle or do I mention it here and risk the banstick and the collapse of the gaming infrastructure?

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I don't know, but if I were you. (or it were me reporting something) I would...

1. Save a draft of any and all PM's sent to Devs about the possible "exploit/bug".

2. Make sure to get and keep the read receipts.

3. Give them some time to respond, notify them again, and if you still get no answer - VERY VAGUELY hint at their being a problem about "X", but don't describe it in any detail.

This would (kind of) = "discuss the issue on the Forums", and this should hopefully minimize problems so far as an exploit being made public, yet still attract enough attention to the potential issue to have it resolved, & in theory prevent you from being banned for "delicately" bringing up said problem.

Especially when you have copies of your PM's sent to Devs or Community Mods and the Read Receipts to show that you did in fact attempt to bring it to the appropriate person's/people's attention - and gave them time to read and respond to your PM's. *shrug*

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As for consistency, I will remind you once again that these are proprietary forums and we can allow or disallow any posts on these forums at our discretion. The other rules are the guidelines to be followed, the proprietary rule is the overall rule there.

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This is exactly the reason things got into the state they are/were in. This is also the reason why nobody around here has a clue what is ok to post on any given day.

Make some rules, stick to them, change them if needed but this moderation on a whim hasn't been working very well for a while now.

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These forums are full of "grey areas", there can't be 100% consistency at all times - that's just not feasible or dare I say possible, to enforce the rules with 100% accuracy.

And as a few people have already pointed out, in their own ways...
If they actually did so it would undoubtedly feel more than a little Draconian, and the Forums would likely have a decidely "empty feel" to them.

So they do their Jobs, by exercising their own discretion on a case by case basis - according to the rules - to the extent possible.

The Forums are a huge field - with pitch black on one side, and pure white on the other - and a big fuzzy patch of grey all the way down the middle, where the Mods do their best to keep things civil, constructive, happy, etc.


That said if you're uncertain about what you can/can't or should/shouldn't say, use your own best discretion.

IMO, I believe the Mods can generally tell whether or not a poster either has, or is at least trying to - exercise some sort of discretion (and staying within the rules) when posting.

I've been hoping a future expansion box would be more of a "Grey Side", in between the "Black & White" we currently have.


/e step into the wayback machine

Much like when the "Dark Champions" book was released for the (PnP) 4th Ed Champions RPG.

Vigilantes, Spies, Agents with questionable morals/bosses/goals - that sort of thing.

(Wasn't this hinted at or mentioned before, around I8 or maybe even right before I6? - when they announced there would only be one Sub Fee for both Games??)

It would be nice.
They might even think about forgoing the Teen Rating - allowing for really gritty, more realistic/believable story arcs and whatnot.

Maybe some new Zones in a "Grey Area" - which might help alleviate or even solve the "Every New Zone is a Co-op Zone problem" - Not really PvP zones (or not necessarily?) - but maybe some Suburbs, or Semi-Urban Sprawl = Less of the "Its a City OR an Island" thing.

A "Middle ground" between the mostly four-color comic, Paragon City Zones & the Run-down, Bad guy controlled Rouge Isles.


CoH: Atlas Park-Paragon City, w/ Longbow, & Hero Corp

*Somewhere in between: a "Grey Area/Zones" with a couple new NPC groups maybe a S.H.I.E.L.D.-ish one, and Alphabet Agency or two, etc.*

CoV: Mercy-Rouge Isles, w/ Arachnos & the various Patrons


You know so just maybe we can finally actually KILL off the freaking Bad/Good/or Other Guys - rather than "apprehending them" and everyone getting away via the TP System.

By that I mean killing off NPC's story-wise - not PK'ing, just maybe we could leave the Comic book code Era for abit. (PLEASE!)

And the whole frakking "GI Joe vs Cobra cartoon setup" - where there's a parachute for EVERY plane/helicopter shot down - so nobody dies.

All retreat from the whole sanitized & Kid-Friendly stuff.

Maybe the Villains could even start to be more Villainous every now and again, (pretty please)?


That's really just my wishful thinking on how they could expand the IP.
I'm psyched about the announcement, and curious about some of the possible stuff - vaguely mentioned too.

Is anyone actually really close to getting the 54 Month Vet Reward Yet?

The top of the thread says: "Please use this thread to discuss the below announcement".

Considering the thing about Natural Origin Characters getting a bit more damage with The Blackwand & Nemesis Staff, Is there time to change the 54 Month Reward - Based on player feedback in this thread??

(And no, I don't mean nerfing/"fixing" the wand or staff to not give the extra damage for Natural Origins characters - and calling it "fixing a bug"!)

Seriously Devs, could you - or rather would you consider giving players the option to choose between a couple of the other Temp Powers in the game?

The code for making them not run out of charges, and possibly nerfing their power some from the actual in-game versions - (like it was done for the 4 current Vet "temp" Powers iirc) exists right?

The Animations for... Lets say the Bow & Arrow from Croatoa, or the Holy Shotgun from Striga, etc. all exist correct?
(And if not the 2 examples I mentioned surely there are some that do.)


A decent number of people have already expressed their lack of enthusiasm for the announced 54 Month Reward.

And you can bet even more people will certainly be disappointed later on, when this isn't new news and they find out first hand - that the 54 Month Allegiant is essentially a "re-hash" of the 12 Month Loyal & 33 Month Unswerving rewards.


There are obviously a few people that are happy with this - the whole "there shouldn't be any more new Cool/Spiffy Long-term Vet Rewards" because they won't be able to get them anytime soon.
The fact that they tend to follow it up with "New players probably won't even be able to get them before the servers shutdown" is a testament to their lack of faith in the future of the "City of" Line....

Even though we're told NCNC has been beefing up staff and has plans to continue the with the game for a long time to come, and hinted at the possibility of another "City of " Title, and/or the Moon Zone, and/or a number of other things the naysayers said would never happen.


I figure it can't hurt to ask, is Allegiant already set in stone or not?
The 48 month Pets have changed some since they were announced - so I'm really hoping that a change to this Announcement is still possible.

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Id like to finally be able to get the Power Slide !!!!

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IIRC, that's from the collector's edition, and if so, won't happen.

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EDIT: MY BAD
I THOUGHT it was in the Prestige Sprints Vet Reward, its not.

I got it from the CoH DVD Collector's Edition - and the silly little Statesman Heroclix mini... (The most reviled Heroclix ever )

It's power slide IS kinda neat - not having your toons legs "running", but its not spectacular or anything - it just looks kinda spiffy, if you like purple. *shrug*