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Here's what I mean: I know the IP, the characters, the Lore, all belong to NCSoft.
The Engine is licensed from Cryptic (though Paragon Studios surely made a number of modifications to it the original designers never envisioned.)
But what about things like Super Sidekicking? Inventions? The Store Bought Travel Powers like Ninja Run, the animal transformations, etc? The Incarnate System?
If the Devs behind Paragon managed to reorganize in some shape or form-- or a number of them went to work for another studio-- or a third party studio wanted to use something similar-- how much of that tech could they use in a new game? -
Quote:Are you talking about what Zwill and Arbiter Wolf said? 'Cause that the last thing I heard.So you don't believe the comments from two different rednames that things were happening? Nice going there.
That was nearly two weeks ago, and I don't think either of them stated WHAT the talks involved. -
Quote:Calm down.
Many of us believe that there is an actual reason for NCsoft's continued silence. They might not be able to give any specifics because they are currently in ongoing negotiations with a third party regarding the ultimate fate of CoX.
You know I wish we knew if there were talks going on about the fate of the game. -
Honestly, the way NCSoft has handled things so far has left such a bad taste in my mouth that I can't see myself ever playing another game of theirs EVER. (Though I confess if I can't get a cash refund of the six months or so left of my COH sub I will prolly play whatever I can use that on till it's gone.)
I can see how it'd make sense to drop COH from the NCSoft stable, but the way it has been handled strikes me as being so unprofessional that I can't see myself wanting to do business with them in the future.
1) You drop a bombshell on your employees that you are shutting them down the DAY you do it.
2) Nearly two weeks in, and you haven't provided ANY information to your customers about what will happen to their prepaid sub time or their Paragon points? Some people renewed literally DAYS before the announced shutdown ... for a YEAR. Not having information for them about how you are compensating them for that money is NOT good customer service IMO. -
Maybe what they'll do is have Diana show up with amnesia so she doesn't remember her true identity and then gradually discover who she really is. Could be a fairly low budget way to have a Wonder Woman show without making a whole Island Paradise.
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Quote:I just recently read an article were Vivendi, who owns a big chuck of Blizzard, wants to sell it off due to a slump in the stock.
In my opinion, NCSOFT either does not have faith that the CoH franchise has a marketable sales appeal to other companies, or they are going to shelf it. A move should have already been made if they had intentions to sell it.
Why shelf it? So they can have the rights to make CoH2 or sell of the franchise when they can make more money for it.
Next month, X Com is coming out. I remember buying that game nearly 20 years ago. Now they are bringing it back with high hopes. Sometimes, separation makes the heart grow founder. In my opinion, this is what NCsoft is betting on. Let's hope it doesn't take 20 years.
That makes sense.
If NCSoft thinks they may get a better price for the brand after the economy improves I can see why they'd hold onto it even if it's not profitable now.
Of course, given that they just closed the entire studio they've lost all the knowledge base they had on an engine that's been juryrigged to do things far in advance of what it was originally designed to do.
And they've created a fair amount of ill will by the way it was handled.
I was just talking to some friends in-game. I think that if NCSoft had said "We just can't continue to run the game any longer and it does not appear that we can find an offer that's going to justify the added expense of transferring ownership so we simply must shut down the game" then there would be a lot less ill will.
As it is, they shut down a game that still had a very vocal (if not large) fan base and also treated employees (that were well loved by the community to a degree that's probably unsual for a MMO) in a rather shabby manner.
The shutting down may have been inevitable, but they certainly handled it very poorly.
I don't see NCSoft reversing their decision. I think finding a buyer right now would be rather difficult.
But I think that if nothing else this has shown our Devs just how much we valued them as well as the game, and that's worht something to me. -
With a few exceptions, most of my characters in COH were based on the lore I found in the game.
But ... these are MY characters.
And I am not ready for their stories to end.
I will continue their adventures in writing.
And to the extent that I can, I will continue their adventurers in other games.
What about you? Will your characters sleep with the game or go on? -
Thank you so much for this, guys!!
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If nothing else, I hope all these efforts show the Devs just what an amazing job they did. What an an amazing thing they helped create, what an amazing community they helped foster.
Our community is AWESOME.
No matter what else happens, nothing can take that away from us. -
1. Was there going to be any kind of payoff for the Clockwork King/Penny Yin relationship?
2. Was it always the plan that Penny would grow up to join the Phalanx and who her mother would be?
3. Were there plans for more Rogue/Vigilante story arcs in the future? -
Quote:Honestly, it would probably be a fairly risky venture for the people who've just been let go to take on a position in a start up venture. Even if NCSoft agrees and even if they can raise enough capital to keep the game going, a large number of start ups of any kind fail. I would not fault any Dev who chose not to return because of finding some other more secure position in the meantime.This news is.....encouraging. Here's hoping.
Also on a slightly "devil's advocate" note: let's say the game is saved somehow (Im hoping that is saved, don't get me wrong), but would that mean the return of all the Paragon Studio staff? Some may not want to return for assorted reasons.
At this point, I am a bit more hopeful than I was. If NCSoft is willing to CONSIDER letting Paragon spin off then it raises our chances of the game continuing at least a LITTLE bit. -
Yeah. I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but it would be neat if Paragon finally got to spread its wings and run solo as an independent studio.
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If they do become an indie studio and are open to investment opportunities I would be willing to contribute!
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At this point, I would give the odds of any producer making an offer for COH that'd be accepted from NCSoft as being slim to none.
That being said, I do not think the efforts of Tony and the others are being wasted.
Sometimes miracles happen.
And even if they don't, what this may tell NCSoft and the other producers out there is that there at least a niche market for something like COH and there are people out there willing to fight for the game.
That kind of loyalty is something I'd think any company would like in an increasingly competitive market.
COH may be doomed, but the best parts of COH-- the features such as the costume creator, the ease of teaming, super sidekicking, etc-- may live on in some other game somewhere.
That's worth fighting for. This community is worth fighting.
Nothing says we should go gently into that good night... -
So Sony is a no go, and from something that Babs said in a forum post it's not looking likely that Cryptic/PW is looking to pick the game up either.
Godspeed with your efforts, Tony! We're all pulling for your success! -
Midnight at 11/30/12 when it becomes 12/1?
Or Midnight 11/29/12 when it becomes 11/30?
I intend to be on virtually all day the last day we have so I'm hoping we can get some confirmation of which .... -
Sigh.
I was afraid of that. 8-(
I suppose there is a chance that Perfect World might consider picking COH up, but from what I hear it's not too likely as they already have CO. Plus side is you'd pick up a bunch of people who aren't going to play CO and don't have to pay to license your own engine. Downside would be having two fingers in the same pie for what I gather is a smallish publisher ... -
Quote:A cross-game chat system? That actually sounds quite cool!The market does not have to be rebuilt, just detached from their current backend, attached to the new one and adjust prices to reflect the new business model, it's harder than I oversimplify here but does not have to be a full rebuilding of the store system.
Other than that, most things are true but don't have to happen overnight. The monthly billing has to change hands quickly but after that point, the game can be transitioned slowly into the new servers and login system.
In addition SOE has a cross-game chat system that will likely be required in the game at some point.
Sigh.
I've started moving my toons where I want them to be when the game ends. (I have over 30 50s so it's going to take some time) and taking screenshots. And even though we have almost three months before the lights go out, I find myself getting seriously sad as I revisit characters I haven't played for a while and think of all the fun I had with them. 8-(
I appreciate what Tony is trying to do-- and the hopefulness of Golden Girl and some of the rest of you-- but I am finding it hard not to lose hope ... -
I've decided that I'm going to log out all my toons dancing now in case I can't get back to them before the end.
They will keep on dancing till the world ends.
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Quote:That's the issue that concerns me, honestly. Is the price that NCSoft going to ask for the game plus what it'd cost to lease the engine from Cryptic more than Sony (or anyone other than Perfect World) going to be willing/able to pay and make an acceptable profit?It seems unlikely that anyone would buy the property unless it contained everything. In spite of opinions to the contrary, the value of the franchise is in the ability to run the game and generate operating revenues from it. The IP is pretty much worthless in the grand scheme of things.
That's why I wondered how much of the game tech could be transferred to a non Cryptic engine. -
Quote:To all the SOE naysayers, SOE has received far more hate over SWG than it deserves. Just as LucasArts was responsible for the final demise of the game, don't think they were any less involved in the NGE.
That said, the NGE WAS a disaster when it came out. The timing was bad, the lack of warning was bad, and the execution was bad. And yes, it slaughtered the old class system. But in the long run, the NGE turned out to be a pretty fun incarnation. But you'd never know it from version 1.0. A lot of it wasn't even working properly. And then slowly some pre-NGE features were brought back, and we got a pretty interesting hybrid of a game. And SWG's population was actually on the rise before the shutdown was announced. And the game was still being developed, even on its skeleton crew of a dev team, and new features were still being planned.
If SOE adopts CoX, don't sell them short. Most of the problems SWG had were not due to bad development. It was due to the fact that SOE didn't own the IP, which gave Lucas the freedom to play backseat driver. BOTH of the expansions that SWG got, were promotions for Episode 2 & 3, which didn't even take place in the SWG era. And SWG launched just before Lucas decided that the Galactic Civil War was old-hat, and everything Star Wars now needs to be entirely about Jedi with DragonballZ powers in order to appease the target audience age for Star Wars, which has mysteriously changed from "everyone" to "K-16."
Things like this are why City of Heroes (or a sequel to it) is the only Superhero MMO I will ever play. Anything DC or Marvel ever licenses out to other companies is in danger of the same kind of garbage that SWG got dragged through. It also was nice in CoX that I didn't need to feel like I had to be a hardcore comic book reader for 30 years before I started playing in order to grasp the nature of the world I was in.
If the rumor is true, GO SOE.
Though even if what they're offering is GOOD, it doesn't mean NC will sell. Sometimes companies have a way of preferring to let IP's die rather than sell them, because years down the road, if the new company does an even better job with the IP, they don't want to have to deal with the ego-bruise.
That's the other thing. No matter how good the offer may be NCSoft may refuse to sell just because they can. -
Quote:I suppose that's possible, though I'm sure by now they probably realize a significant portion of this player base-- perhaps even the majority-- is not going to touch a NcSoft Game again. (Though selling the game might be a way to get some goodwill.)You forgot "refuse to sell the game, because it's existence is a viable threat to their other sources of income".
The fact that they have apparently never sold an IP once they decided to close it doesn't bode well for the chances of COH living on, I have to admit. 8-(
But until they say they will not accept ANY offer there's always a chance. -
Quote:Well, that's good news.From what I understand, CoH's powers would actually be relatively easy to export to a different engine. They are explicitly defined in spreadsheets, whereas some games have to create a program for every spell.
Some of the features would probably need to be re-written, especially things like bases. Unfortunately, it may be impossible to restore the bases lost through such a transition. I believe most other features would be possible to recreate on a different engine.
Graphics? Your guess is as good as mine. I 'believe' that the way the textures work, it would be possible to recreate most of the graphics, and FX stuff probably works independently.
It makes me feel a little more hopeful. Maybe someone would buy the game and give us a shiny new engine that could do more things. -
So if Sony (or anyone for that matter) buys COH what exactly would they get?
The lore and NPCs, for certain.
But how much of the powersets, graphics, and features are tied into the Cryptic engine? Could those things work in a non Cryptic engine?
Would they then have to lease the engine from Cryptic? -
Oh man. I dearly hope you are able to do that. I have so many toons that I don't want to see just gone forever. Even if the game never exists for me to play them again I would like to have them saved ...