Biowraith

The main draw of this game for me is the freedom we have to create such a wide range of characters - both in concept/theme and in actual builds and abilities. The action based and (mostly) fast moving pve combat is a close second.

Of the items on the list, I went with Costumes as that's the basically a contributing factor to the main draw (certainly the closest match from the options on the poll).

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Everyone is dead on about bases not being anything special for most players.

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...which s why one of the selling points I see in most SG recruiting broadcasts is "working base"?

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I often suspect the reason for that is the SG in question doesn't have much else going for it

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But to have a functional base would require having active members...

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Usually it probably does, but with no guarantee of the quality of community within the SG - does it have teaming, events, an actual sense of camaraderie.. or is it just a prestige farm - which is really what I meant by not much else going for it (though I admit that's purely cynical speculation on my part, being as I've not joined one of the "working base" broadcasters).

But it's no guarantee of active members either: I'm an example of this. My VG currently has a working base. It also currently has one member: me. At its peak it had two members: me and a friend. We duoed and took a char each to 40. We joined up 3-5 alts each for the bonus prestige (and levelled two or three to 10-15). He then quit the game and I levelled a 2nd char to 40. That much was enough to build a working base (about 1.2mil prestige from the three 40s, then add the bonuses for the alts). And that's before the recent bonus prestige payout or the new bare minimum rooms. But I doubt one active member and one ex-active member is what people'd have in mind on hearing "active members"

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Everyone is dead on about bases not being anything special for most players.

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...which s why one of the selling points I see in most SG recruiting broadcasts is "working base"?

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I often suspect the reason for that is the SG in question doesn't have much else going for it

This had better be an accurate depiction of the Incarnate epic AT, when it finally arrives.

My thoughts/ramblings on what I read in that transcript, and some of what's come up in this thread:

For me the non-event of bases comes down to several factors. Firstly the prohibitive cost (including rent) was discouraging - although the two man SG I had with a friend (who stopped playing, so it's one man now) actually has got a functional PvE base (4 location teleporter, workshop with storage and buff machine and worktable if I had anything to make with it, decorative room, and probably the prestige (if not the space) for a medbay). We had most of that after, I dunno, 3 or 4 months? At this point in time we both have our mains to 40+ (800k or so between us), added our alts (for the bonus) and I got a 2nd char to 40 (another 400k). With the recent bonus, rent is covered for a while, but any further expansion isn't likely to ever happen.

Anyhow, now it's built we come to factor two: although I enjoyed creating and designing the base, I barely ever go in it now. There's just no real reason for me to do so. Sometimes I use the teleporter as a sorta shortcut for crossing multiple zones, but really the ferry system works pretty well there. I use the enhancement storage as an alternative to inf transfer since it doesn't require a third party (and by the time it becomes too many trips to and from the store the alt can probably afford their own - specially as they've not been buying any so far). But other than that, just no real reason to go in. I'm obviously not base raiding with a one man SG, I don't really do the whole RP gathering thing that might prompt inviting people to join me in my lair, and I find the benefit the buff machine gives not to be worth the hassle of travelling and zoning into my base.

Finally there's the one big reason that SG base building is always going to be outside the reach of the masses. The clue is right there in the phrase "SG base building" - it's not a personal base, it's an SG base. So if you want to be in a decent sized SG you're unlikely to be one of the ones with base building rights. So it's basically a case of admiring (or not) a zone someone else has designed.. which is true of every zone or mission in the game, SG or not. The obvious solution to that part has been given many times: personal appartments or personal rooms attached to the SG base.

And that's me done with my take on bases.

Safeguard missions don't sound too appealing to me, but that's based on escort/protect missions in other games where they tend to be the least fun mission type in said game. Protecting stuff is generally harder and more frustrating than destroying stuff. But I'll try to keep an open mind and hopefully be pleasantly surprised when they go in.

For loot and/or crafting.. I am very wary about this, but not 100% opposed. It depends how its done. I could get behind the idea if it is fairly accessible to the relatively casual player - no rifts developing between the haves and have-nots (as a current example: a pickup teaming stalker or dominator that wants some shoes). Stuff like crafting temp powers from salvage, or a chance of boss+ dropping new enhancement types. Those are the kinds of things I could live with and maybe even enjoy. What I do NOT want to see is the kind of loot model used in more traditional mmorpgs - particularly their end games. The ones where most of the loot is barely worth using and the good worthwhile stuff is a 2% chance to drop out of a pool of various other 2% chance items you don't want, placed on a very specific boss who is at the end of an instance that takes a very dedicated (and often large) group of players to complete, such that the game basically becomes spending 5-6 hours each night raiding the same handful of instances over and over for months on end in the hopes the item you want finally drops. And the only reason you're actually doing all this is to make your character better at running those very raids. No sir, no thank you. One of the reasons I like CoH is the very fact it breaks away from a lot of 'traditional' mmorpg conventions.


And finally to finish, I'm with whoever said that the one addition they want more than anything else to the game is side switching. Or, as I said in another thread, just being able to create hero AT villainside and vice versa (I can write any falling/redeeming into their backstory even now, but it won't let me play a heroic brute). The only real hurdle I can see there is APP vs PPP for an AT outside its native side. But I don't think balance would be the big disaster people believe, and I don't really understand the missing content argument.

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Well first question is, do the know what an MMO is?

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This was the first thing that crossed my mind on reading the OP. Most of the people I encounter (for me, that's basically family and work colleagues) are unfamiliar with gaming in general, much less the specifics of MMO gaming. Some of them might have played some games on a younger relative's gameboy or something. One or two might even have owned a console at some point. They may be vaguely aware that people can play games over the internet. But generally the world of gaming is a mystery to them.

I my experience there's two basic types of questioning in this area though:

The first is the ignorant dismissive type that goes along the lines of "why do you spend so much time on something like that?" - the same type of person that couldn't understand why anyone would like a non-mainstream genre of music, or don't want to watch Big Brother, or whatever. The sort of person that just can't grasp the idea of other people liking things they don't, especially things that aren't considered the norm in society. For them, I'd not bother trying to justify myself beyond "I enjoy it", or *maybe* point out how much entertainment time I get for what they spend on one night out binge drinking.

The second (which thankfully I encounter more often these days) is just genuine curiosity. They honestly want to know about it - probably not because they're interested in trying it themselves (and probably not in too much detail), but they're just showing an interest in something unfamiliar to them (or just showing an interest in you as a person). So for them I'm faced with the task of explaining an MMO game and its merits to someone with little knowledge of gaming, online or off.

edit: only just noticed this is a resurrected old thread..

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no, they stun you, then do there 100 mag hold which last for less than a second, so after your toggles drop the stun kicks in... the stun lasts for like 10 seconds

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Wrong, it's a mag 100 stun with a short duration.

Castle's post

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They have both. They have the very short duration mag 100 stun, which drops toggles. They also have beanbag (or something very close) which is a regular mag stun with regular duration. Your average brute/stalker ignores the beanbag right up until the toggle-dropper hits, at which point the beanbag gets its opening (at least if you were relying on a toggle to protect you from it).

I can put up with most of their powers. Even the end drain (malta had more than one sapper per team spawn when I originally fought them and longbow don't seem to use their -end as often as sappers did) or ignite patches (though it's a big part of why villains are automatically on the losing side in siren's call, but it's only the fear effect of all dot patches on my mm henchmen that really irks me).

But the one thing that I really want to see changed is the 1 second hold that ignores my brute's mez protection. I spent 50 levels on my first CoH character as a defender, getting mezzed every other fight and gaining all of the you've-become-adept-at-missing-all-the-action badges. It got really tiresome and I thought for CoV I'd go with a mezz protected char. And hey, I still get mezzed very occasionally when lots of mobs stack their effects. But to have a single mob - and not even an elite boss or av - just punch straight through it like it's not even there is just tedious in the extreme.


I'd also agree with the sentiment that mob effects ought to run under the same rules and magnitudes as our powers (smoke grenades meaning we can't target anything at all, the extent of the debuff on warden Lingering Radiation, etc).

t3h S00p4rFr3ak!: d0 j0u d4r3 t0 ch4l13ng3 t3h p0w4r 0f t3h S00p4rFr3ak!?


No. Really.

The mission text included the rather wonderful:
Oh, what has science wrought? I sought only to turn a man into a metal-encased juggernaught of destruction powered by the unknown properties of a mysterious living crystal. How could this have all gone wrong?

(not responding to anyone in particular)

Just to add another person's experience for trying to work out the "average": I've been playing since release day for about 2.5 hours a night average with another 15 or so hours across the weekend. Got some extra gametime in this week as I had the week off work. My main character is, on talking to a civilian, 57 hours old. He has gained 114k prestige, running missions with a friend, in SG mode since level 10. I'm starting to get less infamy now though (level 27) so not sure how long I'll be able to afford keeping SG mode on for.

So I'm gaining a hair over 2k prestige per hour (you get what, 10-20k prestige if you're in SG mode for the first 10 levels?).

I don't do farming, just regular running in SG mode without too much downtime between missions etc (and generally won't farm, due to lack of fun and feeling of grinding).

I have a 2nd char who is level 21 and has gained about 70k prestige. The first char is in a two man SG (will be a third if he ever gets his butt over from WoW) that doesn't really expect to get a functional base any time soon. The 2nd char is in a small (I'd guess 10-15 active members) SG and is about the 3rd or 4th highest contributor to prestige in the group. That group hopes to have a working Workshop up in, I'd guess from the prestige earned so far, 3-4 more weeks. Not sure how long the basic telepad and infirmary will take.


As for my opinion, I am ok with the base costs for plots, rooms, and basic equipment. I expect that my small SG (in one case, tiny) will take a month or two to get a basic functioning base up and running, and quite a while to get a raidable one going. What I'm not ok with is the cost of making craftable items. In beta the challenge was getting enough salvage to make much of anything - we were pretty chuffed when I managed to get a mission computer and basic telepad made. In retail however I've got loads of salvage.. and get depressed knowing that most of it will never see use due to the cost of whatever state of the art glue they're using to stick the bits together with (especially when you consider other SG members will want to build their items too). I don't mind smaller SGs doing things on a smaller scale than big sprawling maxed out ones, but I think the minimum realistic scale needs to be a bit higher to ensure enjoyment for all - removing or seriously reducing crafted item costs would go a long way towards that.

If the green cons bit doesn't appeal try looking for bosses as they give a much higher infamy per xp gained than minions or Lts. From my most recent mission:

You have defeated Longbow Rifleman (minion)
You gain 32 experience and 22 infamy.

You have defeated Longbow Nullifier (lieutenant)
You gain 70 experience and 83 infamy.

You have defeated Longbow Officer (boss)
You gain 139 experience and 278 infamy.

So my minion kill is about 0.56 infamy per xp gained. My lieutenant kill is about 1.19 infamy per xp gained. My boss kill is about 2 infamy per xp gained. If I levelled exclusively on bosses I'd have 4 times the infamy compared to levelling exclusively on minions.


As I've said, I'm not having a problem with infamy (50% of my slots have SOs and 40% have DOs by the start of level 23). But if you feel you are, that's one way to boost your infamy income, one which may feel more challenging/satisfying than going after green cons.

Just for reference, on hitting level 23 I have 14 green SOs (mix of accuracy, end redux, damage and dam res) and 12 yellow DOs slotted. I have a whole 2 primary power slots without an enhancement (could put a training, but saving to combine a DO if one drops), along with none in fitness, travel powers or rest/brawl/sprint.

So that's around 50% of my slots with green SOs and the rest with serviceable DOs one level after SOs are available. How much more is a reasonable amount?

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And since you can't get debt until level 10, that's 5 more levels where there's no debt.

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Inf gain for the first 12 levels is, if you optimise it, about 40-45k. Of that, about half of it is gained between 10 and 12.

You're basically losing 20k or so from no debt at the newb levels (assuming you deliberately perma debt, it's never been so hard that you'd be in perma debt naturally) - 3-5 DOs or, if you save, a single cheap (ie, not acc/dam/heal/recharge) SO.

It's not really that big a difference short term and it's pretty much neglible in the medium-to-long term.

Wish I had an answer for you MagrothJ, but that's not happened to any of my characters yet (had three up to level 20+ if you count beta). I really don't know what's happening differently for you :S

On my brute:

By level 12 I had just a smidgen over 40k inf (my MM just hit 12 and he's got a similar amount). Slotted up attacks with an acc each, and some end redux for my toggles (was hurting for endurance). Spent the influence I got during level 13 as it came in to add some damage resistance to my shields. Then started saving for level 17/18 when 20s would be usable.

By 17 I had about 60k saved (might've been more, but no higher than 80k) and slotted some more damage resistance, saving the rest for 18. At 18 I was able to update/combine almost all of the enhancers I got at 12 and by 19 I had everything except pool powers and resist physical slotted with DOs. At 20 I started to get DO drops, some of which I could use, the rest I sold. My regular teammate is a different origin, so we swapped any the other could use too.

By 22 I had enough (215k) to afford 4 accuracy SOs and 5 dam res SOs. Coulda gone the other route and got 2 or 3 damage SOs instead of the damres. My DOs were mostly still operable, though a couple went red on 22 (since upgraded though). One mission yielded about 7 DOs I could sell (that was a particularly good mission). Story arcs are giving SOs too now (my last one did anyway). I suspect by 30 my important powers and maybe a few auxilliary ones will be kitted with SOs.

This was all done by being very vigilant about selling enhancements (I sell if my enhancement inventory was more than 50% full after a mission, to ensure it doesn't get full halfway through a mission forcing me to throw the cheaper ones away) and making sure I sold to the correct vendor (science to science, mutant to mutant, training to quartermaster, etc).

The net result is that I am slowly but surely improving my enhancement loadout (a few DOs will likely go red in a level or two, but I can afford to buy new DOs and hold off on the SOs a mission or four longer if I don't get drops to replace them - and 4 or 5 of them are from drops as it is). I'm also having to make some hard choices about what to enhance - I could have more accurate attacks, or one or two harder hitting attacks, better shields or cheaper shields, etc. At no point have I been feeling weak either, so no worries there.

In short, I suspect all of this is working as intended. It's certainly very similar to my first character's experiences back at CoH release.

edit: it does mean "slot levels" are even less of an event than they are with my influence filled hero alts though, since there's a good chance I can't afford to fill those slots for a while.

This is, if not exactly, then real close to exactly the same as it was for me running my first character in CoH. Only able to afford a small handful of SOs when you hit 22, gradually add a few more as you level up, but it's not til you're into your 30s that you can start affording a full set.

Always been that way afaik. I was under the impression that enhancement prices had changed at some point, but it was a case of some got more expensive while others got cheaper, for a net change of not much at all?

Well, at level 33 it's still better for me to stay in SG mode - a +2 headman gunman gave me 1100influence outside SG mode, or 100inf and 49 prestige in SG mode.

But yeah, influence rewards increase as you level while prestige rewards stay pretty much the same, so I can see the upper levels being more rewarding if you go via influence rather than raw prestige.

One thing to note though is that you won't get any salvage if you go the purchasing route, so depending on your goals you may have to go for the lower prestige rate anyway.

When vigilance was introduced it was often argued that when the team is in trouble defenders need faster recharges or more effective buff/debuff/heals - that endurance would rarely be the factor that decided whether the team wiped or not.

That fell on deaf ears.

So I guess it's a waste of time to suggest that an endurance reduction won't counteract the overall weakening every other aspect of our powers receive from "diversification".

Yeah really, rock accolade! I had one saved, but a bug made my rock look like my nemesis staff, so thinking I was about to fire the staff I threw my only rock instead


I'd also love to see a Rikti Sword accolade reward. Don't really care how long the timer is, it'd just be damn cool to have. The fact one of my characters is ex-Lost has nothing to do with it, oh no.