Bill Z Bubba

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The search for the GUT is fasionable atm. The media likes it. It may be simply just be another layer of approximation like the rest of our laws of physics.

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More and more I'm agreeing with the conclusion that layers of approximation are all science will ever be able to give us. As someone that lives his life by the scientific method, this conclusion is very disturbing.

Kind of makes ALL arguments meaningless when at the core, we can't KNOW anything about anything. We can only deal in probabilities.

Oh well... at least we can accept that the probability of any religion being even remotely correct is near nil. So science is still the only worthwhile paradigm to live by.

/sorry for the threadjack...

Back on topic, I have yet to see PROOF that Stalkers are overpowered gods that can't be destroyed and kill without retaliation. As this has also not been my experience IN PvP, I'm left with no change, after this whole thread, that stalkers need a swift hit to the head with the nerf bat.

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Okay, so what we need then is a single counter-example... one person who is neither a Stalker nor a Stalker hunter, and the premise is discredited, right?

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Oh! Oh! ME ME ME!!! I'll play! I don't play stalkers. And guess what?!?! I haven't gone into a PvP zone on a team yet!

And I don't hunt stalkers! I go for whoever is in my way. Sometimes I die. Sometimes I kill. And here's the kicker: Even though I think PvP brings out the stupidest and worst of all gamers, I STILL HAD FUN IN THERE!

I laughed at the griefers and their lack of a life or a substantial package. I laughed at the whiners that get pissy when they lose.

But then I would fight someone that said "good show!" when I beat them. Or "Good fight!" when the beat me.

So.. yea... theory blown to hell.

And you don't have to hold down the spacebar with the use of a simple bind like:

/bind j "+up$$+autorun"

Don't have my binds in front of me, so I'm going off memory, but the bind above should send you off without the need of holding down anything. You'll just keep jumping and moving forward.

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I don't like that you seem to be taking any suggestion that there is a problem as a call for extreme nerfs. I don't think it helps the discussion.

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Actually, I was just harping on the concept of "I shouldn't have to change my build for PvP." It bugs me. I also don't think there's an actual problem to be resolved here.

But to those that are purely putting up suggestions for changes, I salute you. Just beware that often times, whenthe devs make changes, the consequences are OFTEN worse than the perceived "problem."

Take movement suppression as a prime example.

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A very simple summary would be: The game at the moment will end up with only hardcore PvPers playing in the zones. This is not desirable as it is only fun for a very small group of people.

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So what would you prefer? Everyone's damage be cust by 75% in PvP so that all battles last 15 minutes and more?

Stalkers in PvP lose the ability to AS completely but all other damage they do is doubled?

Everytime someone stated that the powers available to stop a Stalker from being able to AS were not up to that job, someone else posted that they were mistaken.

Camping in the opposing force's hospital is griefing and an exploit.
Stalker AS can be disrupted, and therefore, is not.
Since it is NOT an exploit, there is nothing that needs fixing.

This from a guy that will never play a stalker, and the best perception any of my characters has is from Focused Senses on Bill.

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It's not the same argument. That argument is about Kheldians, this is about being unable to engage in PvP.

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Unable is NOT the same thing as unwilling. If you are unwilling to change your build for PvP, then you are unwilling to engage in PvP against Stalkers.

That said, if someone would like to post a build that has NO chance against a Stalker, I will be happy to tell you how to change it so that you can, or tell you which team mates can cover the holes that you have.

If you are unwilling to change your tactics, through teaming or build changes, you have no one to blame but yourself.

(Can you tell I'm stuck at work and bored?)

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I don't like the idea of reducing players to 1HP rather than death. It doesn't seem to fix the problem but pretending that some players don't experience a problem and dismissing their views is pointless.

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But a "problem" that isn't really a problem SHOULD be dismissed. This is the same argument we were all having with Kheldians. "But I don't WANT to take Dwarf form for mez resistance!" "I want to be a human only Khel and blast like I was in Nova form and tank like I was in Dwarf form without having to take the forms!"

Tough noogies. Suffer. Khel human form blasts are weak because you could have CHOSEN to take Nova form. Human form doesn't get mez resistance BECAUSE you have Dwarf form to use. (Yes, Light form gives some mez, but it's not perma and locks you into human powers.)

It's the same irrationality with this argument. "I don't WANT to take tactics or change my build, or move around, or run auras, or pop yellows, or get IR goggles to see through hide/stealth!"

Tough. Suffer. The tools exist to get around everything in this game. If you CHOOSE not to use the tools at your disposal, that is YOUR fault, and NOT the fault of the game.

I do so love it when the moderators come in and purge 3 pages worth of inane drivel.

Back on topic, what have we really learned?

Some folks think that their PvE builds should be fine for PvP.

Some folks think that ALL "one-shot, one-kill, drill sergeant" attacks should be removed from the game.

My simple repsonses:
Pve is NOT PvP. Nor should your PvE build, a build finely honed to deal with the AI of the game, a build finely tuned against the enemies this PvE system throws against us, and you are expecting, nay, demanding that the same build and the same tactics should be just as good against other players that have built their characters from the ground up to destroy other player characters.

This is not logical. This is not sound. This is not rational.

For those that want all one-shot kills removed from the game, it must be fair. When entering a PvP zone, NO ONE CAN ONE SHOT ANYONE OR ANYTHING. No more one shotting that -5 Hellion. No more one-shotting that Skull.

No more, means no more.

This is ALSO lacking logic. This is ALSO lacking rationality.

Circuit_Boy said:
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It's not a "Trick Question" as much as it is a "Red Herring" to distract away from the issue of the easy Stalker one-shot kill.


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And YOU are ignoring the many OTHER power setups that can lead to one-shot kills.

They've been covered by myself and others in this thread.

C'mon folks, drop it. There are MANY ATs that can manage the circumstances of a one-shot kill. There are MANY ways to screw up a Stalker's AS.

Deal with it. The possible downsides to getting what you folks want FAR outweigh the benefits.

Stating that your PvE build should be good enough to hang in PvP is the same as saying my 4- 6 slotted movement power, 6 slotted brawl, sprint, and rest build should be good enough to solo on invincible.

It's a standpoint that is lacking in logic.

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If players are required to build for PvP, then all you will ever see is a small population of hardcore PvPers. This is a good way of killing off PvP for the majority of CoX players.


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And nerfing every single one-shot possibility in the game will turn PvP into a tacticless button smashing snoozefest. Much akin to fighting an AV.

Just to note, I don't play stalkers OR /dev blasters. Matter of fact, the only possibility any of my characters have of one shotting a squishie is my brute, with a full fury bar, buildup and energy transfer.

Should fury, ET and buildup be nerfed?

Nope, must continue to disagree. I like that Stalkers exist and can one shot me. It'll keep me on my toes in PvP zones.

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PVP requires no skill now if all a person has to do is make sure their victim has no perception powers/defense and one shot them. This becomes even easier when your victim is preoccupied with another opponent.

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DOesn't that also qualify as being without awareness?

A person without perception or defense or battle-awareness and readiness might want to consider coming back to PvP after they've selected some PvP-oriented attributes, such as perception and defense, battle-awareness and readiness. That, or they can come to terms with the fact that they are going to be facing opponents that are harder to fight than mission AI, who might have built their powers around PvP-oriented combat and actually prepared for this type of battle. Then, defeat won't hurt the pride so much that you run screaming to the forums looking for nerfs.

Heroes can and do thwart my assassination attempts - why can't you? Has it occurred to you that perhaps the problem is not in the design, but in your tactics and playstyle not being anywhere near where it needs to be to compete with people who actually built their characters for PvP, and practice it solo and with teams nightly?

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Have to agree with this. We have 12 slots. There is absolutely NO reason why you can't build different characters for PvE and PvP. If you take a character into a PvP zone without building in the tools to keep yourself from getting one-shotted (death without retaliation allowed,) then that is YOUR fault.

It is NOT the fault of the design, it is NOT the fault of the stalker, or the TPfoe-ing /dev trip mine laying nasty.

If you want to be able to PvP, as a defender, you need to either build with the tactics of others in mind, or you need to strap yourself to a teammate that CAN defend against others' tactics.

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Well an interesting note on this point. In my last email exchange with Statesman where we were running numbers, he explicitly told me that something like this was in the works, that he could not elaborate more, but that for purposes of Accuracy in the calculations we should assume that all mobs were minions.

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Wait... what? So Lts and bosses and AVs would all have a base 50% (adjusted for level) and not scale for the defense based sets? But how would that really help us against +2s, common in 8-man groups? Mind you, a +2 minion trying to hit me currently has a far harder time than a +2 boss.

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Streak Breaker (I just talked to Poz about it
If you miss three times in a row, then your next attack will always hit.

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Sweet! So now we KNOW that the streakbreaker is broken any and every time that we have 4 or more misses in a row.

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Over the 4 day weekend, I left my computer running with Eviscerate on Autoattack. (Both my target and my character were set to not take damage so there was no worry about killing each other.)

I attacked a total of 38917 times.
I hit 29275 times.
I missed 9642 times.

That is a 75.22% overall to hit chance against an even level critter with no defense powers.

There is no "Accuracy Wrap Around" -- otherwise Blasters with Targetting Drone + Aim + Build Up would never, ever hit, which is not the case.

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As always, I appreciate the testing you've done, but as per my last post, we aren't looking for base accuracy versus even con minions.

We are wondering if changes have been made to either the streak breaker or the purple patch numbers.

Since you have access to said numbers, can we please have posted the Base ToHit values currently on the live servers for:

Hero vs.
+1 Minion
+1 Lt
+1 Boss
+2 Minion
+2 Lt
+2 Boss
+3 Minion
+3 Lt
+3 Boss

etc.. up to maybe +5?

And did the purple patch effect get put into place for lower than hero level?

Can we get numbers for -1s, -2s, -3s, etc?

With the proper ON LIVE NOW numbers, we could all get to some serious testing to determine if something is just flat out broken.

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This morning, I had PMs in my box saying the Accuracy of Dark Melee, Energy Melee and Claws seem to be wrong. I've gotten similar PMs about Ninja Blade as well.

We've tons of data here which all support that accuracy is working as intended and players still have a base 75% to hit even level critters.

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We've already proven for ourselves that base accuracy wasn't changed for a player against an even level enemy.

Was the streak breaker altered in any way? Many are complaining of longs streaks of hits and misses.

Was the purple patch altered in any way? Many are complaining of GREAT difficulty as enemies go up in level. (And doubly odd, more difficulty hitting as level of enemy DECREASES.)
Were the values for base accuracy against +1, +2 etc changed? And were these values then accidentally applied to -1, -2, etc?

Ummm, is the defense debuff resistance EVER going live?

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Correction here. The 1hp threshhold is only one of the ideas being considered. We've still not determined exactly how we are going to deal with 'One Shot Kills' (and the final decision will almost certainly apply to both PVE and PVP -- so no more AV insta-kills.)

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Will this also mean no more players one-shotting mobs? Even blue or green or grey mobs? If so, that's going to be pretty annoying.

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If it means that players can't get one-shotted by AVs anymore... I'm all for it.

Castle,
I'm currently attempting to solo Agent Arthur Bell on the middle difficulty. I've failed three times with a full boat of inps each attempt.

I popped three purples, supposedly giving me 75% def + the 2% or so from Combat Jumping. He still doesn't miss me. His repel aura apparently drops my toggles. His punches drop my toggles. His ranged attack drops my toggles.

I just lowered myself back to easy mode for this timed mission in the hopes that I may then stand a chance.

I must ask, what made you think anyone would find this enjoyable? Most players I've spoken to on the subject find that toggle dropping in PvP was a mistake in the first place. Why spread that joy to PvE?

No, this is not fun. It's nothing but annoying. When I ran into Ballista, I let the mission fail because I couldn't find a dominator to come in and lock him down.

Nope... even on the LOWEST difficulty, with SIX lucks, he's still hitting me 90% of the time. Let me say this again... WITH 150% defense, this ORANGE boss is hitting me 90% of the time.

And you want to tell us that this combat system isn't broken?

No, Castle, this isn't fun. As a 35th level Brute, it should be POSSIBLE for me to solo an elite boss. It would be if not for the toggle dropping.

EDIT: Letting the mission fail. I will NOT be FORCED to team in a game that is supposedly still solo friendly.

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But... he DID say that they were working on yet another boost (not the debuff resist, we already have that) for SR.

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hmmmmmmmmm

He's fighting as a level 30 AV. Not a giant monster that scales like Luska. That's why he's handing everyone their arses.

Thanks for the info, Statesman.

Sounds like every PUG around. Multiple ATs, several folks SKed, rough start, got better.

Sounds about right.

I'm actually considering slotting rest for the 1st time in my CoH/V career. Figure 1 rec-red and 2 int-reds should do it. I'll start with 1 int-red when I get home to see how much it helps.

That pause before the immobilized flag goes up is a killer.

In beta I went energy/dark. Just for kicks.The sounds still drive me apeshite, so no dark armor for me still.

My main in CoV is Louis Cypher. Energy/Fire for he is Lucifer, after all. The flames of hell burn brightly. And I so dig the sounds of energy punches. Up to 19.. feelin fine.

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Granted my Brute is only level 8, but currently he chomps down inspirations, has to use his self-heal every third battle or so, and in general isn't very effective in solo.

This is daunting me from playing the AT, so does it get better? All I hear about is how great Brutes are for Solo and I'm just not seeing it yet.

Discouraged and looking for answers.

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HUrrr?!?! I'm level 19 with my energy/fire brute. Have teamed up on maybe 5 missions. I die. Orange bosses hurt, but I can take em. Red bosses... DAMN THAT CALIBAN!!!.... made me ask for help because I didn't want to change zones for fear of the mission resetting on me to get insps.

But soloing normal missions? No issues. And I'm on the 2nd tier of difficulty.

Have my s/l shield 5 slotted with DOs, 3 dam-res/2end-red.
My healing flames has DOs, 3rec-red/1heal. I fire it off at half health.

I think we have a difference in opinion on the self heal and what soloable means. But even last night, I soloed about 12 whites into one group. And they were the Wyvern archers.

There is something truly beautiful about a full fury bar feeding my fiery aura. They all dropped rather quickly.

With bosses that I can't take out w/o insps, I pop 2 purples, a yelow and a red. That's all it takes.

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OK - here's the most likely outcome...

If you own both games, you get all options - the new CoV sets will be accessible for your heroes.

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That would be nice. Bill's gonna look even cooler..... while being faceplanted due to SR's complete lack of defense.

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With Enhancement Diversification comes a benefit for ALL City of Heroes powers.

Every power, across the board, is getting a 13.33% reduction in its Endurance cost.

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thanks for the end redux but you can try telling me that this is gonna help me all you want posi, but my sr scrapper is still gonna max debt with ed

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And since they cut the debt cap in half, it will only take you 1/4th the time to get there!