zretchen

Is there any particular reason no one has mentioned traps? Acid mortar provides very good stacking -res and you get it early. Poison Gas Trap completely neuters regen which synergizes very very well with -res on AVs. Force Field Generator provides very good defense for the entire team as well as mez protection. Those three powers are available very early to a defender, work very well with sonic's inherent -res, and are largely "fire and forget" in that you lay down a couple of traps and then start blasting without having to refresh anything mid fight. It allows for very good "uptime" on your sonic -res debuffs.

Solo it can be a bit frustrating as mobs seem to like to run away from you (don't know if it's Acid Mortar's debuff or your near capped defense from FFG or what), but on teams...you really feel like you're making an impact. Things just seem to go much smoother.

Try Willpower. Very endurance light toggles, extra recovery, layered defenses.

I've been going through these same gyrations myself with defenders recently. I'll put my vote in for /Sonic as a secondary, however.

The -Res innate in /Sonic is higher for defenders, to the point that it actually ends up doing more damage than the same power in a Sonic/ corruptor (without scourge) given the defender solo buff. It has a rank 1 power that, because it also applies a 20% resist debuff, is worth being forced to take and makes the basis of a very early attack chain. Once you get the first 3 powers in /Sonic, you really don't *need* any more attacks from the primary, which frees up a ton of slots for doing anything you want with your build. /Sonic also works well for teams where you lose the solo buff, but the stacking -resist debuff is still applied, and Howl is very nice for slapping lots of mobs with -20% resist.

As for the primary, I looked at Time, Traps, and Cold as well. I primarily focused on Time and Traps, because they're the two sets with major defense buffs that can also self buff while still providing debuffs to help survivability and kill speed.

Some things I paid attention to:
AoE vs Single Target: Both traps and time had good AoE coverage on debuffs. Time's debuff is a toggle where traps is a long recharge ground spawn. Traps can debuff resists early, unlike time which speeds up killing at lower levels, once you have the recharge to lay down an acid mortar on each spawn.

Recharge: Time buffs recharge and has fewer recharge intensive powers (more toggles and longer duration buffs). Traps doesn't buff recharge and has multiple debuffs with the same 90 second recharge, making them a pain at low levels. SO's really help traps as 3 recharge SO's in Acid Mortar, Poison Gas Trap, and Seeker Drones can allow you to use them at least once per spawn and for larger spawns twice (overlapping Acid Mortar).

Self Preservation: Force Field Generator is traps major self protection, and you get that pretty early. Time has a mix of a heal, a -to hit toggle, and eventually Far Sight (which you get at 18 rather than at 8 for FFG).

Status Protection: Traps has it, Time doesn't, which led me to take traps.

Healing: Time has it, Traps doesn't. The defender ATIO proc does have a self heal that, at the higher levels of defense given by a SO'ed FFG, keeps you topped up and safe easily enough. Don't forget to refresh FFG.

Self buffs vs team buffs: Time has one buff that can't be cast on yourself and can be skipped. Every skill in traps can benefit a solo defender.

Late bloomer vs Fast starter: Both traps and time seemed to start off fairly quickly (not Rad quickly, but still, not as late as Kinetics). They're kind of odd. Traps gives you all of your really nice powers by level 18, but you don't have enough slots / skills / access to good enhancements until later to get the recharge down on them. Time doesn't give you your good defense buff until 18 and your good resist debuff until 26, but it's not like it's a crap set before those two skills. I'd say they're both pretty equal as far as that goes. Time feels sturdier to start with, but doesn't get your "premium skills" until 18 and 26. Traps feels a bit more klunky to start with (lots of high recharge powers), but Acid Mortar and Force Field Generator come at such a low level they give you a good idea of what's to come every couple of spawns and keep you pushing to level up.

Thanks for all the feedback! I've built too many scrapper and brute builds, so slotting +regen is a hard habit to break.

Quick question....

Given a very high defense build (iTrial capped or very near for S/L/E), soft capped to everything else, would you prefer the self heal in Time or the Hold protection in Traps for DA content?

As a scrapper I didn't have to worry all that much about it, but how prevalent is hold and how often does it break through defense in DA missions?

Hello all. I've never built a defender before, so I'm not sure what the general "best slotting practices" are. I put together a build that focuses on soft cap to all positionals, and then to recharge. Slot levels were placed randomly as I was focusing on building up defenses first, so it's not very exemplar friendly.

Will this allow me to do a Shreak -> Scream rotation or will I have to do the Shreak -> Scream -> Shreak -> Howl? Will I run into endurance issues? Anything obvious I missed?

I intentionally left out purple sets, but I could likely replace the Decimation in Scream with Apocylipse and the Posi Blast in Howl for Ragnarok for extra recharge eventually.

Please let me know if I'm missing something or could do something better! Thanks!

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.958
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Traps
Secondary Power Set: Sonic Attack
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Dark Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Caltrops -- TmpRdns-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(A), TmpRdns-Dmg/Slow(7)
Level 1: Shriek -- SDefendersB-Acc/Dmg(A), SDefendersB-Dmg/Rchg(3), SDefendersB-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(3), SDefendersB-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), SDefendersB-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SDefendersB-Rchg/Heal%(7)
Level 2: Scream -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(21), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(27), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(27), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29)
Level 4: Howl -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(29), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(33), Posi-Dmg/Rng(33), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33)
Level 6: Acid Mortar -- ShldBrk-%Dam(A), ShldBrk-Acc/DefDeb(11), ShldBrk-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(13), ShldBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(17), ShldBrk-DefDeb(17), ShldBrk-Acc/Rchg(19)
Level 8: Force Field Generator -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(9), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(9), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(21)
Level 10: Recall Friend -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-ResKB(11), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(19)
Level 12: Poison Trap -- BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(A), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(13), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(37)
Level 14: Teleport -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(15), Zephyr-ResKB(15)
Level 16: Web Grenade -- Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob/Rchg(A), DblAc-Acc/Immob/Rchg(34), RtngG-Acc/Immob/Rchg(36)
Level 18: Seeker Drones -- DarkWD-ToHitDeb(A), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/Rchg(36), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(36), DarkWD-Rchg/EndRdx(37)
Level 20: Amplify -- Rec'dRet-ToHit(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(37)
Level 22: Team Teleport -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-ResKB(23), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(23)
Level 24: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(25), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(25)
Level 26: Trip Mine -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(39), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Oblit-%Dam(48)
Level 28: Tactics -- Rec'dRet-ToHit(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(40), EndRdx-I(42)
Level 30: Hover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Zephyr-Travel(31), Zephyr-ResKB(31), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(31)
Level 32: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(34), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 35: Oppressive Gloom -- Acc-I(A)
Level 38: Dark Consumption -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Dreadful Wail -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Oblit-%Dam(42), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(43), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(43), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43)
Level 44: Dark Embrace -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GA-3defTpProc(45), RctvArm-ResDam(45), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(45)
Level 47: Soul Drain -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 49: Triage Beacon -- Numna-Heal/Rchg(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(50), Numna-Heal(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- RgnTis-Regen+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(48), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(48)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(46), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(46), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(46)
------------

It's not a haste, it's a flat number. It seems like without momentum, attacks animate in the 2-2.5 second range. With momentum, they're closer to 1 second consistently.

I actually very much enjoy the mechanic. It brings a smile to my face because it's almost like a "dance of death": and...a.......1....2....3....4...everything is dead. It reminds me a little bit of a stalker packing with Assassin's strike as your opener and then a few quick attacks and the boss is down, though Assassin's strike is a MUCH slower animation from hide. All in all it's a very "rhythmic" style of play. If you're used to buzz saw builds, then this is a radical departure. Honestly I don't find myself "chasing momentum" like I chase fury on a brute because you're always just one swing away from having momentum back. It does make missing a bit more aggravating, but not as aggravating as missing your big hits on a stalker! (I swear to God I miss more on Assassin's Strike than I do on every other power, even though I'm way overcapped on its accuracy.)

The main reason I really like the set, though is because its AoE hits hard and has a good range. I can blow up a pack of 6 pretty easily with its 120 degree cones where I can struggle to get more than 2 into the cones from a set like Street Justice.

I'll let someone else answer then. Given that you want survivability at the cost of damage, I'm assuming that you want to be able to fulfill the tank role in a group. I don't group much in CoH, but I've tanked enough in other games to know that it's not always about your mitigation. You also have to take into account your ability to take and hold agro, control the spawn, and perform some type of positioning so that your group's AoEs can be most effective.

I would guess that you're going to be looking at some of the older sets like Invul or Granite which had to make due with only SO's for slotting since the game began. ElA looks like a solid set as well, and is more self sufficient when you find you have an excess of DPS and not a support class to be found. I'm just not sure how ElA is for surviving an alpha with a +MaxHP power. I don't think brutes start off with tank level HPs, but they do have tank HP caps.

Anyway, best of luck!

What kind of leveling up will you be doing?

If you're doing large packs of minions, Willpower or Invul have those nice "get harder to kill the more things are around you" toggles. Not so helpful when you're alone vs a AV or EB and you'll too low a level to have a god-mode power.

Will you be solo leveling in AE missions? Then you can pull some shenanigans like taking a /Fire brute and tailoring minions that only do fire damage. By the time you hit level 20, you can pretty much cap yourself to fire resists with only DO's.

Will you be grouping where you're just trying stay alive when you get agro? The clickies in Regen might be very helpful.

Will you be fighting primarily melee mobs? If so, SR + Guarded Spin (or Defensive Sweep in TW) would be hard for mobs to break through, though AoE might be a problem for a while.

Sorry I don't have a definitive answer for you, I've thought about this question myself and never did come up with a good "one combo fits all" scenario.

I have had good success, however, with the DM primary. DM/WP for larger packs works well with the -to hit from the attacks in addition to the -to hit and regen from RttC. Basically you focus your fear and ST attacks on the toughest threat and between Siphon Power and RttC, the minions actually can add positive health regen to you while you take down their big brothers. Not so helpful if you get more than one boss, but you can still fear one and hit the other with ST attacks, so not that bad either.

I've also done DM/SR which starts ramping up nicely once you get Siphon Life slotted up. The single target fear in DM can basically turn a boss into a non-issue, which helps survivability tremendously for soloing story arcs. I'd guess DM/Regen would be similar to DM/WP, you're using the -to hit of DM to mitigate damage and the regen / heals to patch up any hits that get through.

Thanks! I was thinking that Build Up was overslotted, I totally missed the Rectified Reticle set! I'm assuming Hover could be taken in the place of combat jumping. I've gotten very fond of the movement flexibility it gives, though without a fly speed, it might be more annoying that it's worth.

I assume that the Ragnarok set can be aquired from the merit vendor, or do I need to scan the Black Market for that? Also, where does the Superior Stalker's Guile set come from? I saw the non-Superior one on the merit vendor.

Sorry for the questions, I just returned to the game after a bit more than a year and trying to catch up with the changes.

Thanks, I'm liking your version of the build far better, if just for the fact that most of the powers are slotted better for their standard bonuses while still retaining very good set bonuses.

Gah, I missed the thread....

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=286973

Sorry about that. From reading the other thread about OG and CoF, it seems to have more to do with the fact that the mobs are still debuffed when you auto-hide from placate than the fact that it "ticks" while you are hidden. I wonder if that's the problem with chilling embrace. Because it's auto-hit, persistent, and doesn't prevent return attacks (unlike a fear or disorient), any mob debuffed by it will still be attacking you when placate fires. The 50/50 chance might just be the additional defense from unsuppressed hide causing the mobs to miss and not interrupt you.

I've had situations were I didn't wait "quite" long enough before charging into the next pack and while the status showed me as hidden, the mob was turning as though they knew I was there. I probably have a better than 50/50 chance to channel through an AS even if something is swinging at me just due to defense.

Only level 27 now, so it's a lot of theory. After CU, I shouldn't need to worry about bothering to use AS out of hide ever again.

Hello all. I'm trying to make a fun-to-play stalker with a focus on layered defense, ability to survive scrapping against multiple foes, and enough damage to take down elite bosses without much difficulty. I'm primarily soloing mission arcs rather than farming, so I'd like the build to be fairly cost effective. Suggestions?


Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.957
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Stalker
Primary Power Set: Street Justice
Secondary Power Set: Dark Armor
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Initial Strike

• (A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
• (3) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
• (5) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
• (17) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Level 1: Hide

• (A) Kismet - Accuracy +6%
• (37) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed

Level 2: Sweeping Cross

• (A) Obliteration - Damage
• (3) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
• (5) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
• (17) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (36) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• (36) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage

Level 4: Dark Embrace

• (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
• (23) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
• (25) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
• (25) Reactive Armor - Resistance
• (48) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%

Level 6: Assassin's Strike

• (A) Stalker's Guile - Accuracy/Damage
• (7) Stalker's Guile - Damage/Recharge
• (7) Stalker's Guile - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (11) Stalker's Guile - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• (11) Stalker's Guile - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• (31) Stalker's Guile - Recharge/Chance to Hide

Level 8: Build Up

• (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff
• (9) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge
• (9) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance
• (39) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance
• (39) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance
• (50) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up

Level 10: Shadow Dweller

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed

Level 12: Murky Cloud

• (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
• (37) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
• (39) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
• (40) Reactive Armor - Resistance

Level 14: Hover

• (A) Flight Speed IO
• (15) Flight Speed IO

Level 16: Obsidian Shield

• (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
• (40) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
• (40) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
• (42) Reactive Armor - Resistance

Level 18: Spinning Strike

• (A) Detonation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• (19) Detonation - Damage/Endurance/Range
• (19) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• (31) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage
• (37) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy)

Level 20: Dark Regeneration

• (A) Theft of Essence - Chance for +Endurance
• (21) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
• (21) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
• (23) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Endurance/Heal/HitPoints/Regeneration
• (31) Touch of the Nictus - Heal/HitPoints/Regeneration/Recharge
• (36) Touch of the Nictus - Healing

Level 22: Fly

• (A) Flight Speed IO

Level 24: Boxing

• (A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
• (46) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
• (46) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
• (48) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Level 26: Shin Breaker

• (A) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage
• (27) Mako's Bite - Damage/Endurance
• (27) Mako's Bite - Damage/Recharge
• (29) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
• (29) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• (34) Mako's Bite - Chance of Damage(Lethal)

Level 28: Tough

• (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
• (43) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
• (43) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
• (45) Reactive Armor - Resistance

Level 30: Weave

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
• (48) Karma - Knockback Protection

Level 32: Crushing Uppercut

• (A) Mako's Bite - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
• (33) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage
• (33) Mako's Bite - Damage/Endurance
• (33) Mako's Bite - Damage/Recharge
• (34) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
• (34) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Level 35: Oppressive Gloom

• (A) Razzle Dazzle - Chance of Immobilize

Level 38: Placate

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 41: Superior Conditioning

• (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
• (42) Performance Shifter - EndMod
• (42) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Recharge
• (43) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy

Level 44: Physical Perfection

• (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
• (45) Regenerative Tissue - +Regeneration
• (45) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Recharge
• (46) Performance Shifter - EndMod

Level 47: Maneuvers

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed

Level 49: Hasten

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO
• (50) Recharge Reduction IO
• (50) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 1: Assassination
Level 1: Brawl

• (A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Dash

• (A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Slide

• (A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Quick

• (A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Rush

• (A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Surge

• (A) Empty

Level 1: Sprint

• (A) Empty

Level 2: Rest

• (A) Empty

Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift

• (A) Flight Speed IO

Level 2: Health

• (A) Miracle - +Recovery

Level 2: Hurdle

• (A) Jumping IO

Level 2: Stamina

• (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
• (13) Performance Shifter - EndMod
• (13) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Recharge
• (15) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy

Level 1: Combo Level 1
Level 1: Combo Level 2
Level 1: Combo Level 3
------------

Bots/Storm was my first and only character to 50. I found it to be very fun to play. I liked the way the powers worked together to slow down incoming attacks. It was a lower-stress playstyle. I tended not to over-use the knockback powers. Gale was only really used to keep bosses flopping (if they're flying through the air, they're not attacking), hurricane was used only after the AoE alpha strikes from my pets were already launched and I needed to floor everything's to-hit. I'd also use it to keep stuff away from me or to try to push stuff towards my pets while also neutering them.

/Dark is a great secondary, but it never really got traction with me personally. (My Nin/Dark stalled out at 22, my Demon/Dark at 32). I guess my point is, Storm is a great set, knockback is anything but a set breaking mechanic, and there are certain players that it appeals to more than the others. Give it a try and see when it starts getting boring.

Could it be the few second lag after you've hit the follow button to when the pets start engaging? Or do they stand there stupidly for a lot longer than 5 seconds or so?

Perfect! Thanks for the response.

I'm confused about the Freezing Rain power. Does the resistance and defense debuff only stay in effect while the target is on the "patch"? The power information says that the defense and resist debuff is a 30 second debuff, the patch only lasts 15 seconds, and anyone who crosses the patch in those 15 seconds gets a blue "mist" around them. Is that the defense / resist debuff, or is that just the slow debuff which is also a 30 second debuff? I never have seen the traditional downward red / purple shields like you get when something is in a tar patch for freezing rain, and I believe with tar patch the debuff is only in effect while they're in the patch and wears off quickly once they step out of it.

So the question is, when something is hit by an active freezing rain patch, does the resist / damage debuff hit them for 30 seconds even if they run out of the patch?

If you're willing to accept the shields that the protector bots produce in lieu of secondary shields (protector bot shields are pretty good at ~10% defense slotted and they double stack on your low level bots as well as your assault bot), then I think you want to take a strong look at Dark or Storm. Both sets are AoE debuffing sets that give you something to do every single fight. Tar Pit and Freezing Rain (the resistance debuffers) start out being used once every other fight, but when you get 3 recharge SOs in them, you can use them every fight. The anchored debuff (to hit for Dark and Slow for Storm) can be used every fight. Hurricane moves with you and has a scary good to hit debuff along with a range debuff and it synergizes very well with a ranged set as it keeps things out of melee range. Twilight Grasp is a crazy good AoE team heal. Both of those secondaries are very active, allow you to debuff entire groups from the start (unlike Poison) and go very well with bots in general as to hit debuffs play nice with defensive bubbles and AoE debuffs play nice with the AoE damage in the bots final upgrade.

Something to think about, and the nice thing is that they get a lot of their fun powers (Snow Storm / Freezing Rain or Twilight Grasp / Darkest Night / Tar Pit) very early on so you can get a good feel for how they play without having to invest 30+ levels.