Thugs/Dark vs. Thugs/Storm

Trying to decide which. /Dark is pretty much the gold standard for Thugs...but I also like Storm Summoning.

dark

I'd only take storm on a set that can't slot the other pet procs

If your only choice is dark or storm, go with dark. The heal with dark will affect more of your guys than O2 would and youll need that! Also IIRC, dark has Tar Patch, which will slow down the mobs to a crawl whilst your guys pick them off from range. Dark has some great holds too, where as storm tends to scatter the mobs too much to be effective.

Would you rather play Storm? If so then play Storm. MMs offer a great chance to really get to play Storm since you can devote your energies to your secondary, unlike the other 3 ATs with it.

Is it better than Dark? I wouldn't say it is. Is it effective enough that you can handle any mission the game gives you? Heck yeah.

storm prob become more viable when the kb to kd proc goes live. Infact, it might become super OP. I might roll one myself once that happens

If you want to play Storm then play Storm. Twilight Grasp is good, but not so good that it should prevent you from playing anything else. Besides, I'd encourage you not to rely too much on a heal anyway. I have MMs with both secondaries and they're both effective. I don't see any pressing reason to argue against /Storm here. Everyone knows how good Dark Miasma is but Storm Summoning is excellent as well, just not in the same way. Don't try to make O2 Boost into Twilight Grasp and you'll do fine. Embrace the set for what it is and enjoy, it's a wild ride.

Echoing the idea that you may wish to pick storm if you want to play storm. There's also no reason to limit yourself to just making one: make both! What better way to figure out which one you like but by playing them.

On a separate note - either secondary is amazing, and storm is certainly one of the unsung gems of the AT.

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville ...[I]t would be more proper to say this game is slooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooowly dying.

First I will start with the oblique analogies. Just because your dentist doesn't usually use a sledgehammer on a patient, it doesn't mean that sledgehammers are useless. And just because a highway construction work doesn't use a dental drill, instead of a jack hammer, doesn't devalue either tool.

Knockback and repel are both meritorious options at the storm summoner's disposal. The underlying problem is that far too many people see those aspects as never to be used; instead, the player needs to know when they SHOULD be used. Gale, tornado, hurricane, even lightning storm are a bit more complicated in implementation compared to rockin' the aura and bubbling the team.

Case in point, effectively making an alpha strike with gale and a hurricane followup CAN be useful to pile up the victims for a more effective fire bombing by the arsonist. Also remember, foes that are flying across the map, pulling themselves up off their kiester and then falling down in freezing rain like the proverbial drunk don't even get to make an accuracy check if they cannot attack.

Bots/storm, thugs/storm, even Necro/Storm are very formidable mastermind combinations.

@Psylenz: Oh definitely, I've heard for arguments about the subtle, finer uses of KB with Storm, and I don't disagree with you there. It's just, having toyed with /Dark on an MM here and there, it's very difficult to break away from what basically comes off as the best Secondary ever (for MMs)

Also the fact that Twilight's Grasp (while requiring a hit-check) is a ridiculously good heal, but for your pets AND for you.

I like Storm because it's more active. My problem with Dark, Pain, and even Traps, is outside of a few moves you use, the MM himself does nothing. Storm has plenty of things for you to do.

Of course, if I needed a self-heal that badly, there's always Medicine, which isn't a terrible option.

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Originally Posted by Justaris If you want to play Storm then play Storm. Twilight Grasp is good, but not so good that it should prevent you from playing anything else. Besides, I'd encourage you not to rely too much on a heal anyway.

Heh, it's true. I'm use to having some kind of self-heal from playing Thermal and Dark all the time. I've done a Demon/Dark, Demon/Thermal, and even Nin/Time. It's just nice to have an option for those times when you get into a pinch. But then I suppose that's what Insps are for too!

Bots/Storm was my first and only character to 50. I found it to be very fun to play. I liked the way the powers worked together to slow down incoming attacks. It was a lower-stress playstyle. I tended not to over-use the knockback powers. Gale was only really used to keep bosses flopping (if they're flying through the air, they're not attacking), hurricane was used only after the AoE alpha strikes from my pets were already launched and I needed to floor everything's to-hit. I'd also use it to keep stuff away from me or to try to push stuff towards my pets while also neutering them.

/Dark is a great secondary, but it never really got traction with me personally. (My Nin/Dark stalled out at 22, my Demon/Dark at 32). I guess my point is, Storm is a great set, knockback is anything but a set breaking mechanic, and there are certain players that it appeals to more than the others. Give it a try and see when it starts getting boring.

/Storm is fun. /Dark spoils you with that heal which is, lets all be absolutely honest here, pretty damn OP. "But it has to make an accuracy check!" .....get out. It heals for more than the largest single target heal in Pain Domination, Share Pain, (which hurts you), in an AoE. That is insane. Making an accuracy check does nothing to balance that out. Oh and it recharges in eight seconds, Share Pain takes 15. Not OP at all....oh and the target takes ToHit, regen, and damage debuffs, kthxbyeeeeee!

So, accepting that /Dark is a good set which then had a hilariously badly balanced Heal given to it (hell if anyone playing it is going to complain...), /Storm doesn't come out badly. First up, it's all about the Freezing Rain. Slot it out, hit SO's to take care of the recharge...mmmm, delicious. Everything is on its butt, when not trying to run slowly out of a patch of massive RES, DEF, and Recharge debuffing horror. And Snow Storm, drop it on whatever you figure will die last, also beautiful. All the -Recharge in Storm Summoning is the real mitigator, it utterly, hideously neuters your enemies. As players we know how God damn horrible that is.

When that Knockback to Knockdown enhancement arrives? Oh. My. God. At the moment you may not run Hurricane because it just creates uncontrollable carnage and problems...fair enough. I have /Storm paired with Beasts, all Hurricane does is make it annoying and difficult for my all-melee henchmen to get the job done. I can understand that. Put this thing in it? Now you just stand in the middle of every battle, knocking everything down, giving a massive ToHit debuff, and laugh and laugh and laugh and laugh and laugh....

There's loads of potential in /Storm. Snow Storm and Freezing Rain will ruin anyones day, you can open play safely with Tornadoes...ok it's a shame Lightning Storm sucks, but Hurricane is as nasty on you as it is on a Tsoo Sorceror, so have at it.

Obviously /Dark can't be argued as bad. In any way. Wouldn't try to do that, but there's plenty going for /Storm if you look past the possibly slightly suspect Heal that /Dark is rocking up with on top of a nice palette of abilities in the same vein as /Storm itself does.

Lightning Storm sucks?


For what it's worth, I enjoy the Storm set much more than Dark, and that's really what's most important.