SO Only Q: Most survivable build?

Because there are so very many ways to trick out a toon in the late game and nearly anything can be stacked (+res harder than +def to be sure) to at least some degree, I want to focus on survivability during leveling with only SOs. Given the following, what Primary/Secondary/Pools/Power selections would you advise?

1) Brute (obviously, given the forum)
2) Not considering anything other than T/D/S-Os at this point (No temps, insps)
3) Main consideration is Survivability with Damage being secondary
4) Especially focused on the Mid-game (lvls 25 - 40)

If you don't mind, I'd like to hear the "why?" as much as the "what?".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha ...I have the patience of a coffee-fueled flea...

Have you purchased any sets off the market? I ask because staff has a lot to offer on an so-only build.

1. The forms provide some control over damage vs. endurance vs. recharge, depending on your needs in the leveling curve.

2. Guarded spin grants relatively hefty melee/lethal defense early on.

3. Pairs well with just about all your choices (no sd of course) so little limitation there.

As for the secondary, I only would avoid dark (can be done on SOs but so much more fun on inventions).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville ...[I]t would be more proper to say this game is slooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooowly dying.

What kind of leveling up will you be doing?

If you're doing large packs of minions, Willpower or Invul have those nice "get harder to kill the more things are around you" toggles. Not so helpful when you're alone vs a AV or EB and you'll too low a level to have a god-mode power.

Will you be solo leveling in AE missions? Then you can pull some shenanigans like taking a /Fire brute and tailoring minions that only do fire damage. By the time you hit level 20, you can pretty much cap yourself to fire resists with only DO's.

Will you be grouping where you're just trying stay alive when you get agro? The clickies in Regen might be very helpful.

Will you be fighting primarily melee mobs? If so, SR + Guarded Spin (or Defensive Sweep in TW) would be hard for mobs to break through, though AoE might be a problem for a while.

Sorry I don't have a definitive answer for you, I've thought about this question myself and never did come up with a good "one combo fits all" scenario.

I have had good success, however, with the DM primary. DM/WP for larger packs works well with the -to hit from the attacks in addition to the -to hit and regen from RttC. Basically you focus your fear and ST attacks on the toughest threat and between Siphon Power and RttC, the minions actually can add positive health regen to you while you take down their big brothers. Not so helpful if you get more than one boss, but you can still fear one and hit the other with ST attacks, so not that bad either.

I've also done DM/SR which starts ramping up nicely once you get Siphon Life slotted up. The single target fear in DM can basically turn a boss into a non-issue, which helps survivability tremendously for soloing story arcs. I'd guess DM/Regen would be similar to DM/WP, you're using the -to hit of DM to mitigate damage and the regen / heals to patch up any hits that get through.

I'll let someone else answer then. Given that you want survivability at the cost of damage, I'm assuming that you want to be able to fulfill the tank role in a group. I don't group much in CoH, but I've tanked enough in other games to know that it's not always about your mitigation. You also have to take into account your ability to take and hold agro, control the spawn, and perform some type of positioning so that your group's AoEs can be most effective.

I would guess that you're going to be looking at some of the older sets like Invul or Granite which had to make due with only SO's for slotting since the game began. ElA looks like a solid set as well, and is more self sufficient when you find you have an excess of DPS and not a support class to be found. I'm just not sure how ElA is for surviving an alpha with a +MaxHP power. I don't think brutes start off with tank level HPs, but they do have tank HP caps.

Anyway, best of luck!

I took a ElM/Invuln brute to 50 without sets or uniques. It gives you a little bit of everything and since you're more in the 25-40 range of focus, you really only have trouble with carnies or arachnos (Psi is bad against pretty much any Invuln since you have to build from 0 to get it). I really loved the AoE of ElM, so he's still among my favorites to play, while Invuln is plenty sturdy even now for me to bust him out and tank a good bit (though he is a much sturdier IOed build now). I started him just before going rogue dropped so for a good portion of my playing it was only other brutes that could potentially be there holding aggro. He was never +4/x8 on SOs, but he handled himself just fine and could play in any content. I even soloed a few carnie missions, leaning heavily on DP and insps, but it works. With the prevalence of S/L damage at all levels of the game and the mid lvl resists to everything else, I feel like Invuln is still a great set to really play from 1-50 just out of the box.

SOs Only, I would say honestly 3 sets seem like the best fit for very "tanky" brute...

Invulnerable...it is what it is and it is very good at S/L and pretty good against everything else...

Regen...while it benefits from set bonuses...on SOs Regen is hard to beat...you can still get good resists and defense numbers through pool powers and your regen numbers can still be amazing...

SR...Super reflexes WILL softcap on SOs...add in tough and a few other things from pools and you will get to where you need to be to survive.

What to pair with them?

DM is excellent as it has a built in heal (which is also an EXCELLENT attack) and built in end recovery (which is a PBAoE attack, also) and Soul Drain (also a PBAoE attack) which is a pretty nasty self buff and it's up pretty often. This power goes ridiculously well with SR because it has what SR doesn't...also goes well with Invuln too...I have a DM/INV brute that's 50+3...he's a beast all IO'd out with incarnates...probably one of the toughest toons I ever built.

Elec Melee is excellent if you want AoE, because it has it in spades...not so much ST damage, but you could pick up gloom for that...and it would go well with Invuln or Regen

Also, you can always go Super Strength...if you did, I would likely recommend it with Regen, though you could go invuln or SR with it, you would have to pick up some epic pool end recovery powers to compensate for it's endurance cost or slot heavily for end redux...where as regen has End Mod in spades already.

Elecrtical Armor as your secondary gives you a lot to work with. Is it the best secondary? No, I am not saying that. But I feel it should be strongly considered as one of the best as the powerset gives you an incredible bag of tools to work with.

You get high resists, virtual immunity to energy attacks and endurance draining, the equivalent of a Recharge SO in all your powers, an endurance recovery/drain power, a heal/max hp power which lowers the cost of all your powers for a period of time.

I went Dark Melee with my signature brute and am very happy with his ability to wade into a crowd, deal massive damage, survive the attacks, and come out with full health and endurance while using only SOs so far.

Survivability as your primary goal. I fail to see how Stone isn't the first answer. Invul would be my second choice.

The why...

Well, Stone has much better Res numbers than anything, and has a lot of def, and has other tools to help survive, too. And it has no completely weak areas like most sets. It *does* pay for that survivability, in a way no other set does, but it really does get what it paid for.

DM/EA

+Def, +End, +Heal, +HP.

A very solid combo, even if just on SO's. DM helps to overcome the slow starts of pre-SO Defense Sets, and the retools to EA make the Swiss-Army Knife of your primary not only faster but still affordable.

I'd need to practice with EA quite a bit, I think. I've started a few EA toons but they seemed like glass houses to me. Not sure if I've tried one since the changes, though, so that might be my problem.

DM seems nice on paper, but every time I play it I feel like I have pillows strapped to my fists. The sound FX are just too fluffy to me. The -ToHit and the Touch are massively nice, though, which is why I keep going back to it hoping to be able to deal with the sounds.

I have a Stone/DM tank at 47. He's been at 47 for about two years now. I just can't deal with the combination of uber-wimpy movement and damage and those sounds. I think I'll stay away from Stone and DM for this Brute.

I rolled a Staff/Regen and have gotten her up to 20. She's pretty sharp so far but without even SOs she's felt light.

I'm going to try out that /EA, I think, and maybe bring it up along side the Staff/Regen to see how they compare. Not sure what to use for a primary yet.

I really appreciate all the advice and tips you folks have been passing to me. Very helpful and instructive.

Oh, by the way, I'm not going to be trying to play the tank-card with this toon. I just want the survivability because I tend to get a bit rambunctious and need a solid toon to keep me off the floor when I'm not paying as much attention to my green bar as I should be. Regen needs a lot of attention.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha ...I have the patience of a coffee-fueled flea...

Staff/WP is likely the most well rounded toon you'll find at SO level investment.

Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

I ran my staff/elec brute to 40 with SOs, a few basic IOs, usually end reducers. At 40 no real reason not to slot the Kinetic Combat and Reactive Armour sets, still some SOs and basic IOs thru the mid 40s. By 50 fully slotted with all the sets I was going to use and replaced any SO with a basic IO, like power sink having basic IO recharge.

You aren't going to find, IMO, a more flexible combination than Staff/Ela. TONS of good tools in both sets to accomplish whatever you are looking to do at the moment. Easy on the blue bar with excellent survivability and great AoE, which is LOTS of fun in team content.

On a Brute, I like Ela over Ea, because if the higher resist cap on brutes. I know you are looking at mid-lvl content, but still, you can slot for +def a LOT easier than +resist, so even at 35-40 you can have pretty solid layered mitigation.

Primary: Dark Melee, Katana, Staff Fighting
Secondary: Willpower, Invulnerability

I imagine Titan Weapons would work as well, but I've never played with that primary.

/WP. Have three toons that were soloed against MOBS of +4s and +5 all day long. One is the Brawl only Brute. The others were a SS/WP brute and a Claws/WP scrapper. Although, I admit, in the later stages of the Brawler's build, I went IO because Brawl simply wasn't hitting hard enough. He could stand there all day long, but it took forever to take things down.

The other two were maulers with SOs. The heals, status, and defense of the WP set is pretty good stuff.

I will have to try the DM/EA build. Always wanted to.

/Mr PlaySkool says WM/EA is strong and pretty.
//Then there's the CEBR, which I hear is a monster, and want to try too.

I would throw my vote in for Staff/EA. I've got a level 37ish one right now, very light on IO's but really easy to soft cap your defenses, plus endurance management like crazy, a good heal and the ability to change your form for what you need. I'm loving it and finding it to be a smooth ride so far, as long as I jump quick on psi blasters.

IMO

1) TW/Stone/Soul
2) Dm/Invu/Mul- If you cant handle the stoner debuff then go with DM/invul. I dont like Dm with stone because a lot of Dm powers already have a long recharge. Go with MU for AEs since DM lacks low recharge AE.
3) TW/Elec/soul-
4) SS/Invul/soul- Never discount the Damage mitigation of Footstomp.
5) DM/WP/soul- Very good combo. I like both my 50 Dm/invul and DM/Wp. The Invul is tougher though.

If you are going SOs like you said, I would get burnout with invul/Elec. Nice to have back to back unstoppable/power surge. Burnout is also a nice bonus on DM with long recharge of DC and SD.