Another_Fan
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Posts
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Quote:Was that meant to be relevant ? Or is the best you can do is misconstrue something to make an off topic claim ?Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
I wish I'd had the foresight to save A_F's post on the old forums about how a team of 8 tanks is the most overpowered team in the game. Whenever I see A_F talking about something now, I think back to that post, and it provides a helpful context for evaluating his ideas. -
Quote:Shouldn't have let that go before but its not applicable. All it shows is you haven't hit a level of proficiency with the new interface.Originally Posted by UberGuy
We had a piece of software. It did certain things. It now does those things using more keystrokes, more mouse motions. It's very basic for people who have a working software interface to be dissatisfied with changes to that interface that reduce their operational efficiency.
Lets take common tasks for most players
1. I have a recipe drop that I would like to realize a profit on
Old interface
1. Drop the recipe into the market see where the last 5 prices are
2. Go over to the crafted enhances and try to find where the crafted version of my recipe is usually involved first figuring out if the name was arranged the same way on the crafted version as the recipe. Scroll through the non alphabetized lists of every enhancement to find it. If I had an off level version turn on all get the price history
3. If I liked the price, check the list of salvage needed for the recipe,
3 A. Write down the list of salvage
3 B. Search for each piece of salvage
3 C. check the total
New Interface
1. Drop recipe onto market check last five price
2. hit find, hit search for salvage, get list of all the salvage needed with their last 5 prices
3. Check the cost of crafted, hit crafted hit subtree for particular enhancement have everything there with highlighting for active types.
Buying insps/crafted enhancements
You can now do this 10 at a time versus one at a time.
Persistent price entry is fantastic when you are selling more than one of anything or buying more than one of anything.
Your claims about the old versus the new interface are only valid for people who haven't gotten past the minimal learning curve for the new interface.
As much as I feel the Devs will stick to their positions even when wrong, I really don't feel they decided to redo the entire market system just to frustrate the player base. The new market is very much smoother for common tasks. Its especially improved if you aren't specializing in particular items and want to use the market to craft your drops and sell them or buy enhancements for a build.Quote:Originally Posted by UberGuy
I might buy this argument if there was any indication that most of the market changes were actually requested. During beta there was a lot of discussion about how most of the actual user interface changes (as opposed to the functional changes, like deferring search results until the search was entered) were not known to be asked for. As far as we can tell, the interface was redesigned with new widgets from the ground up, and no one doing the redesign actually looked into the use cases in play for existing users.
Its pretty clear that the devs did have a segment of the game population in mind when they did what may have been a mandatory redesign.
The point here is that because they improved it in response to user feedback it proves that they didn't have an idea of what they were doing ?Quote:In short, there's no clear indication that the changes "broadened the appeal" except for the cases where the old interface actually made it impossible to use. The changes to the interface go well beyond that change, and most of the complaints revolve around those additional changes. (It should be noted that, in beta, the original version of the new market interface did not allow you to disable autocomplete, and this feature was added back in based on player feedback.)
Yes it was but if you were struggling with the old interface, either because it was crashing your system or because it just wasn't intuitive to you that was one more hurdle to overcome.Quote:That thread was talking about learning about prices, what to sell, when and so forth. It was about how easy it is to make money off of other people on the market, no small number of whom are in no way being fleeced - they pay high prices willingly to have what they want as fast as possible.
They are not separate things. You can't interact with the market without using the interface.Quote:Interacting with the market is the process of finding a good price to buy or sell at, or a way to make money from other players. Interacting with the market interface is a sequence of keystrokes and mouse movements required to execute a given functional activity, like "sell 7 silver salvage" or "buy level 20 Miracle:+Recovery". You have to interact with the market interface to get at the market.
That is your opinion one which is contradicted by posts in this thread, given how the forum treats dissentingQuote:The people who were complaining in those threads did not want to or could not understand how to interact with the market. That is wholly separate and distinct from changes to the functional interface for using the market. Those of us who are annoyed are annoyed because we consider the interface has become less effective.
That's like saying anyone who didn't like spreadsheets because they used T-Maker on a CP/M system would still not like spreadsheets when they have the opportunity to use Wing-Z on a Mac.Quote:Anyone who didn't like the market before still will not like it now.
Its false on the face. -
Quote:All the crafted enhancements are now alphabetized and available from the tree menu. So if you have a crushing impact acc/dam recipe and you want to know how much its going for for you just select the crushing impact acc/dam subtree from the item tree.
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Its now much easier for people to find how much the crafted version of their recipe is going for
Quote:Originally Posted by Mandur12
Without getting in the way of whatever point you're trying to make, can you or someone else elaborate here? -
Quote:You have a piece of software it appeals to a particular segment and not at all to other segments. You change it to try and broaden its appeal and the traditional userbase dislikes it ? Shocking I say.Originally Posted by UberGuy
You can try to lump them together all you want. I'll happily point out that doing so is moronic.
We had a piece of software. It did certain things. It now does those things using more keystrokes, more mouse motions. It's very basic for people who have a working software interface to be dissatisfied with changes to that interface that reduce their operational efficiency. This happens with all sorts of software, from loan origination applications to word processing to incident management. Those are applications where people get a certain level of productivity per time, and reducing that productivity potentially reduces their reward. Now that's a real world scenario where you're talking money. But in this game, the market and playtime itself is also something that has a measurable return on time spent. The market changes reduce that. Of course the most prolific and productive users of the market don't like that.
You can try to dress that as some sort of entitlement to suit your own arguments all you want. It's painfully obvious that it's a twisting of the reality of the situation to pretty much everyone else.
As to twisting reality, Not long ago there was a delightful little thread about how easy the market and how if you couldn't deal with it you just weren't putting out effort and should be ashamed of yourself. Its funny how many people that pontificated in that thread are now whining that they can't handle it. Perhaps if you want the shiny, you should be able to make the effort. Me I find myself making a few hundred mil a day either way -
Quote:Well if I couldn't open the market without crashing my game, I might, just might nothing 100% certain but yes I think I just might be biased against it.Originally Posted by UberGuy
Very specific, quantitative descriptions have been given of how it now takes longer to perform the same activities. That is a degradation in performance. It unquestionably came with some benefits, but when those benefits did not apply to the users now degraded they are experienced as a pure degradation.
For example, I never had problems opening the old interface. There were people who did, and now they have a working interface. That's awesome, but it doesn't change the fact that the new interface is slower to use than the old one. Both I and the people who could never use the interface before would benefit (further) from the new interface being further improved to reduce the increased need for scrolling and clicking .
Being able to bid on a 10 stack of enhancements or inspirations is nice, but of far less regular utility to me than being able to see what I'm doing as I bid on salvage and sell IOs without having to constantly twiddle my scroll bars. The old market didn't need a window divider, but the new one does, and it moves to the bottom of the window every 3rd time or so I revisit the market. That's not an improvement.
As to taking longer to do things ? Well some things yes, others no. Its now much easier for people to find how much the crafted version of their recipe is going for and just how much it will cost to craft it. Before the new market there was no easy way to compile the costs to craft. Nothing was alphabetized which made crafted enhancements a true pain to find. The ability to resize the window to make maximum use of the available screen area is a positive pleasure.
What I see on this thread are people complaining that their ox is being gored.
Once again you get the two together as a package. Some people may dislike the abstract idea of a market others may dislike the particular implementation that we had.Quote:I didn't address the breakdown, so while this point is true, I don't see the relevance.
I really never cared why in particular. This is a game, if people didn't like using the market to get their shiny at a reasonable rate that was enough. Now your "Haves" are complaining that it is harder for them to have, seems they have something of a sense of entitlement going.Quote:Which has nothing to do with the price of tea in china. Again, you're lumping together people who don't like either the idea of the market or the current status quo between the "haves" and "have nots" with people who either like the market or at least don't mind it as a means to an end, but who dislike the changes to the new interface. -
Quote:It hasn't been degraded, its been changed. There are things that are much easier to do with the new interface and other things that can be done that were completely impossible.Originally Posted by UberGuy
What an incredibly self-serving argument. How convenient for you it is to lump people who don't like crafting or playing "City of Day Traders" with people who actually like doing those things but are unhappy because there's a new interface for doing so that has new issues.
People in the former category don't want to play because they somehow feel they have to use the market but often claim they can't (and don't want advice on how to). People in the latter category know how to use the market and consider doing so a big part of their play, and are depressed because it's been degraded.
I'm not sure if you need to wake up and smell the coffee, or if someone shouldn't just pour some on you.
And once again neither of us has hard data on the breakdown on why people that didn't like the market in the game didn't. What I had said was their position was just as valid as the people who liked it.
From someone who refers to people that disagree with him as having a sense of entitlement, I'll take that for what its worth.Quote:Originally Posted by SwellGuy
He's never really demonstrated critical thinking which is how he ends up on so many ignore lists. -
Quote:Originally Posted by UberGuy
It amuses me that you're so scrapper-locked on this campaign of yours that you see it everywhere, even when it's wildly inapplicable.
Most of the complaints here are by people who do like the market. What we don't like is the loss of efficiency or functionality in the new interface to the market. Complaining about the things in the new interface that are inferior to the old one has nothing to do with "just not liking the market".
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I'd suggest actually reading the thread. When people start talking about leaving the game because they don't like how they have to interact with the market, that constitutes disliking the market system in the game.
People liked/disliked the old market as a package. People like dislike the new one as a package. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people that disliked the market before start trickling into this forum to brag about their market victories now. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Fulmens
Basically, I play my Fire Blasters like I have six seconds to live. Fireball, firebreath, Blaze, dive for a corner if I'm still alive and there's more than a couple guys moving. Maybe throw a fire blast while I'm in the air. I don't have time for six minute 1970's guitar solos and I don't have time for Rain of Fire.
Never seen anyone boast about being a 6 second man before -
Rain of arrows properly slotted with aim and build up has the ability to kill all the minions in the spawn in a pre emptive strike. That action will reduce the expected killing power of a spawn to 1/4 or less what it was before the rain of arrows. You can usually take out the lieutenants with it as well or take them all out with a follow up aoe.
So look at how your fight evolves, two strikes from archery and you are left just fighting bosses. Two strikes from a stalker set you are still fighting the boss and everything else as well
EDIT: Other blast sets will perform similarly. AR, and fire can deliver comparable aoe damage, energy can disable most of a spawn with kb. -
Quote:The game is balanced ?Originally Posted by RabidBrian
I just read a quote by castle and ghost falcon regarding powerset balance where their response was "is it fun." It came from the late april Q&A I am pretty sure. This solidifies the sets (EM) imbalance -by their own terms- to me...
I suppose in the way a bag of golf clubs could be said to be balanced for a particular course -
Quote:The above,Originally Posted by PumBumbler
Other than a few glaring bugs I'm not hot or cold on the new UI yet. Both have/had their pluses and minuses.
The big thing is to get used to the new UI so you can evaluate it on its own merits but some people don't want to (or shouldn't have to) change.
But re reading the thread has amused the heck out of me. So many people that vehemently resented the idea that many people in the game might just not like the market, whining so loudly that they dislike it now -
Quote:Scrappers are actually pretty good for most tfs especially those with missions that have many objectives. They are very survivable and usually cut down the amount of buff you need. Just a suspicion but I think they will be getting the bums rush for brutes when GR comes out. Just a no brainer there if you have a choice of ats, that are the same except one has more hitpoints and does more damage on average which way would you go ?Originally Posted by Nitra
The whole idea of any Master run is, it forces you to have to work as a team. It forces you to be at the top of your game, and I know, even if you are weird things are always going to happen be it lag, insp not going off or whatever... and yes it can be frustrating but, when you do get it, it's great feeling that you all worked as a team to get it done.
As for certain AT's not being able to do it... I don't know, I have heard some interesting stories, someone here did it with 3 scrapper... I was like "really"? -
Quote:All kinds of can't in programming. Matter of fact its one of the few things where you have provably can'tOriginally Posted by Aggelakis
It's not "can't" at all - there is no "can't" in programming that can't be overcome with enough time/resources/people - it's more "won't" (possibly to do with the time/resources/people involvement). Although the end result is still the same: no merged server lists.
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Quote:They also have a somewhat higher percentage chance of dropping recipes in general.Originally Posted by Larcen3
Forgetting about xp and inf* (also forget about the larger inspirations they can drop)....is there any advantage to fighting bosses? Is there a special recipe pool that only bosses can drop?
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Quote:Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
For the record, Boss level enemies are worth 3 times the XP of a LT.
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Experience
They also have three times the hitpoints making them impossible to remove quickly. In general they are a bad bargain. Op was wrong about the numbers but absolutely correct in the conclusion -
Whats your secondary ?
If it is something Mental, it comes in really nice after you hit drain psyche/psychic shockwave. if you are /EM not so much, if you are /ice you can have all kinds of fun trapping the spawn between an ice patch and a rain.
Bottom line is you get a couple seconds of the spawn trying to run away from the rain of fire. -
Quote:Originally Posted by RemianenI
First, I don't think exploiters are necessarily smarter than the devs, just like I don't think the above is a myth.
Yes because 35 years of people pushing ever more annoying copy protection schemes that have lifetimes measured in minutes has proved nothing. /snark -
Quote:Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails
However, players being able to create unlimited content for each other is the Holy Grail of online gaming. It's something that needs to be figured out. Who doesn't want a generation of games with infinite slushpile content to come out?
fixed -
Quote:Originally Posted by Fury Flechette
Heh, I'm seeing the prices of these things go steadily down. I think the PvP IO farming "industry" in this game has made this process boiler plate.
When you cant wander through the zones without stepping on farmers, its a given. -
Quote:I really appreciate the offer. Its always nice to see how other people do things. But I think you have undercut your point. You are describing a crafted team where you have half to three quarters particular builds. I mean the whole point was not to have a crafted master run. I mean the original point was that people were getting turned down because specific things were needed.Originally Posted by PumBumbler
The durty sekrit to smooth speed runs is to bring a cold def or bubbler. You don't even need IO builds to get it done. As you get better at running speed TFs, vengeance, shivans, nukes aren't really needed. Consider them training wheels.
If you're looking to form a speed run group, I'd recommend a fair number of trollers to start with. Generally their the easiest to play since they are jack of all trades. A tank/brute in a pinch to manage aggro, and the rest can be anything.
The easiest teams will be made of a brute/tank, scrapper, kinetic, rad, cold or FF. Sub in an ill troller or two if you don't have/want a tank. The rest of the team contributes in whatever build they decide to bring, but the core of the team is in the shields, buff and debuff. Bringing a cold and FF are easy street.
If your core aggro group is a bit unsteady bring an emp if you'd like, but generally 2-3 great players can carry an entire speed TF. For a speed mo run you probably want 4-6 experienced speed runners, so getting your core group of friends/teammates a lot of hands on is best. A lot of people use vent or teamspeak but it's not necessary if you have good teammates/leadership.
If you ever want to try it out and need any specific tips for any TF you can just pm me here or in-game (same handle).
BTW, I like the shielding defenders a but they are the cheap way to do things. If you are running with people with mid range or better builds, one good debuffer to help with the AVs (Rad is ideal) and the rest damage and you can just fly through the missions. On something like the ITF you can just have people solo 7 or 8 objectives at a pop.
Either way on this, in this thread I see two sides both saying that what the other sees happening is insignificant, and yet I have seen plenty of both. -
Quote:Originally Posted by PumBumbler
There's a different way to approach Master of _ and it's relatively easy. Just speed run the normal TFs enough and you will know exactly where the hard points are of each TF.
In addition, you will pick up team mates and friends who will become experts along with you. You'll also quickly realize that the team make up is of lesser importance than the team players, so it really doesn't matter what is standing beside you, rather who is standing beside you.
By the time you feel comfortable doing a MO run it will simply be a modified version of a speed run. Almost all of the trepidation is gone because the stakes are very low.
Contrary to what people say about the MO badges foisting division amongst us, it's pretty much a non-event and the speed runs are a good way to make friends, bond and make a ton of merits too. Of all the TFs out there only the RSF would I say needs to have any concern about team builds for a speed MoLRSF.
I don't know how your speed runs go, but the ones I participate in usually have multiple instances of vengeance being used, the trip to the hospital as a fast way to get to the contact, as many missions failed as possible, and fallout is a nice tool to deal with the AVs.
Quote:Originally Posted by Snow Globe
I've explained what I have actually witnessed. If you or people you know haven't seen those reactions, then great for you.
I'm tired of trying to explain the actions of the idiots that make getting these badges the worst part of the game. Suffice it to say that I am relating actual observed behavior and that is why I hate these badges.
I have seen the pier in IP look like a scene from on the waterfront. If you aren't up on the classics.
You can almost hear Marlon Brando, "Charley I could of been somebody, I could of been a Master Of, but now I am just a blaster, a chump"
Yep it happens. If anyone doesn't think it happens, they should listen to the recruiting for the new MO badge trials. -
Quote:Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
I don't suppose we can get a hint about what this solution will be and why it doesn't work, so we can start thinking about what to do about it?
I am sure you will get hints as soon as they have ideas. -
Quote:Oh heck I hate everybody, get real, I'm not a bigot, I'm a misanthrope.Originally Posted by ConFlict
Fine then, you are a bigot.
I don't hate *insert playstyle here* I have one as a friend. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Donna_
yea i know... but i really don't enjoy building up a character to lvl 50 with lvl 50 set bonuses and everything else just to play at a gimped level.
I would love the option to run Posi, Citadel, Numi TF's etc etc at lvl 50... any other level I avoid like the plague, don't see the point in working so hard to get to 50 only to go backwards.
baffles me tbh.
Have you thought about making builds optimized for a particular level ? The mechanics of exemplaring are convoluted but if you are willing to put in the effort you can make incredibly effective builds for a given level range. -
Quote:Looks like the OP was correctOriginally Posted by Commander
Just now, on test, Positron updated his badge list and in it was the Master of the Lady Grey TF badge!!
You can not be serious!
:O
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...85#post2871685
points to you sir