ArchLight

Does anyoen have any information on COV accolades like the COH ones and when they might be included? Is this and I8 thing ??

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GadgetDon wrote:

Why?

(1) Those who spent hours testing I4 and I5, carefully seeing what the problems were, where things got cut too far, etc. wouldn't feel slapped in the face as they are told "Guess what? What you were testing wasn't really what we were looking at."

(2) Some of the changes like recharge rates that were hard to swallow even without ED could have been argued for what they did to the real game going forward

(3) There would have been more than a couple weeks of testing the concept of ED and would have been more time to address things like powers that only take one type of enhancement (by, say, adding extra effects) or whose secondary effects are so minimal it's not worth slotting (by, say, making knockback or disorient enhancements increase the chance of the effect instead of "should this effect happen once per blue moon it happens longer")

(4) It would have been honest. We wouldn't have been told, for example, that Instant Healing can be active almost half the time with six-slotted recharge and permahasten.

As I've said elsewhere, I approve of ED conceptually. But ED on top of the nerfs in I4 and I5 make harsh nerfs even worse, and ED needs some tweaking to actually give us a reason to diversify instead of just punishing us for using the only effective enhancements.

With this stealth issue, I think it's clear that as players from our perspective, we see things that the devs don't see from their perspective. Same with the AV to elite boss for small teams (not just solo). It's there game, they have to make the tough decisions. But by talking about things with us, we can provide them with another perspective that sometimes can help them make better ones.

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This is one of the best and most rational post-ED posts I have read.

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Yes it echoes a lot of my thoughts. I think the combo of I5 and ED were very hard to take. Especially the way the introduced ED or should i say trued to slip it past us.

Sorry but i have to do this.

Yeah its Lasagna but they took out the Meat and replaced it with Spinach and Kale.

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With so much of the insanity that explodes across these boards everytime the developers make a change or a mistake is made, it's not suprising they only talked about the here and the now with what the players knew. Why discuss changes that might not be needed and therefore not be released? In the end they decided they were needed after all and implemented them. It doesn't seem to matter how they handle things though, there turns out to be a spectacle regardless. They tried to play it cautiously and it blew up in their face anyway. Seems to be no matter what they do they lose.

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Why?

(1) Those who spent hours testing I4 and I5, carefully seeing what the problems were, where things got cut too far, etc. wouldn't feel slapped in the face as they are told "Guess what? What you were testing wasn't really what we were looking at."

(2) Some of the changes like recharge rates that were hard to swallow even without ED could have been argued for what they did to the real game going forward

(3) There would have been more than a couple weeks of testing the concept of ED and would have been more time to address things like powers that only take one type of enhancement (by, say, adding extra effects) or whose secondary effects are so minimal it's not worth slotting (by, say, making knockback or disorient enhancements increase the chance of the effect instead of "should this effect happen once per blue moon it happens longer")

(4) It would have been honest. We wouldn't have been told, for example, that Instant Healing can be active almost half the time with six-slotted recharge and permahasten.

As I've said elsewhere, I approve of ED conceptually. But ED on top of the nerfs in I4 and I5 make harsh nerfs even worse, and ED needs some tweaking to actually give us a reason to diversify instead of just punishing us for using the only effective enhancements.

With this stealth issue, I think it's clear that as players from our perspective, we see things that the devs don't see from their perspective. Same with the AV to elite boss for small teams (not just solo). It's there game, they have to make the tough decisions. But by talking about things with us, we can provide them with another perspective that sometimes can help them make better ones.

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Well said congrats nice to see a cool clear head hear rather than the Fanboyz and anti Fanboyz rantings and flames.

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There was no 'might be' about it.

Sure there was but it happened and that's all that matters.

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All playtests, QA checks, difficulty adjustments and balances have been done with Enhancement Diversification in mind since March 2005.

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It was planned and implemented (ED) and led to a huge explosion here on the boards

The boards just want to explode. It is their purpose. It is so on any internet gaming forum.

My how history gets a bit twisted with the passage of time.

Statesman himself said that ED wasn't a done deal at the time of I5. Your quote doesn't actually disprove this fact. It does prove that they've had the system in place for quite some time and could have possibly pushed it out much earlier if they saw it as needed immediately.

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Here's the issue.

All developer playtests, QA checks, difficulty adjustments and balances have been done with Enhancement Diversification in mind since 2005.

But all player testing, player feedback, player comments prior to the announcement of ED was done without Enhancement Diversification. There had been NOTHING to suggest that it was going to be changed. And many of the complaints for players (particularly in terms of recharge times) were answered by rednames pointing out the effect of the change with permahasten and six slotting.

ED may not have been a "done deal" but if we are to trust the first statement it was pretty clearly something they were considering. They knew we were evaluating I4 and I5 without ED in mind.

Had it been presented as something to consider during testing, as something they are testing internally and may happen, at the very least the feedback would have been different.

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With so much of the insanity that explodes across these boards everytime the developers make a change or a mistake is made, it's not suprising they only talked about the here and the now with what the players knew. Why discuss changes that might not be needed and therefore not be released? In the end they decided they were needed after all and implemented them. It doesn't seem to matter how they handle things though, there turns out to be a spectacle regardless. They tried to play it cautiously and it blew up in their face anyway. Seems to be no matter what they do they lose.

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Yeah play it cautious and sneak it in. When was it offically anounce to the COH crowd and why.

It wasnt till the COV beta noticed and brought it over and then we had what a week to test it.

I think we would have been better off with I6 ED than most of I5 to get the desired effects they wanted but why the heack not nerf everything and let the Dev's sort it out later.

ED with the AOE restrictions and the Aggro limits would have reduced the tankers a lot. Plus hitting stamina and hasten.

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thats a falacy, yes their are other people on line but answer me this, in the real world when you are say commuting to work in your car you consider that a team activity when your the only one in the car?

No man is an island. Even if you are alone in your car there are other people on the road who could slow you down or in a worst case scenario an accident might occur which would cause a traffic slowdown for everyone. Like it or not your actions do not occur in a vaccuum.

i want you to provide in C++ the code scrip to account for gravity and groud collision. GO

I'll make you a deal. I'll try this if you can manage to make a typo free post?

Um actually since ED doesnt ADD anything it cant BREAK anything by remving it except leting folks 6 slot powers again.

Removing it breaks inter-AT balance between CoH and CoV. Removing it would also break defenders once more because players would be hitting their caps. Altering the caps in anyway would unbalance us versus the environment.

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Oh the precious Defenders will not be wanted again oh what will we do???? I was never not wanted i always got a team and 80% of my friends list were + level tankers. I love my defenders and ED cut my damage output in addition to changing the specialty of my builds. Besides only the best builds come close to self capping and as far as i can see not that many have that good of a build. You do see them but my exp has been most people are not Min Max experts.

I think ED had more to do with PVP, COV character inherent damage bonuses getting out of hand and clamping down on Protective powers, Hasten and Stamina than anything else.

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How does this coincide with Statesman's comment that at higher levels, three +3 minions (normal invincible spawn) = 1 hero?

It means Invincible needs to spawn higher cons, or (as some have suggested in the past) needs to promote mobs up a rank (spawning LTs instead of Minions, and so on), or in some other way be more difficult than it currently is.

The highest difficulty setting shouldn't just mean "yay, more XP!"

AFAIK, moving the line in the post SO game to three +2 or +3 Minions instead of +0s was a concession on the devs' part because the amount of nerfing needed to restore balance to the intended level was seen as prohibitive. I5 and I6 were clearly intended to push the game's balance back in the direction of the intended level, if not all the way back to it, and players should not be surprised if such efforts continue.

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Then people should not be surprised when the less Uberleet such as myslef stop playing certain AT/powersets because they are not very much fun. Or that people quit and play something else.

I do not find the game to be too easy in its current incarnation and frankly I measure the game not buy the number but buy how much fun I am having. Post I5 it has not been as much fun as prior and post I6 almost all my characters feel less exciting. I am still having fun (but it seems i can only really put 3 fun SO' in my excitement power now days) but the excitement and my most memorable moments (except for one recent COV dream team) come from the Pre I5 days.
I feel they ave traded excitement for frantic to me there is a difference.

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Then we repeal the hated stealth nerf.

The 'hated' stealth nerf? What of the 'hated' I5 and ED nerfs?

'Many well reasoned arguments?' What of thousands of well presented arguments against ED and I5 nerfs (especially against tankers)?

Is this just a spin opportunity to show how the dev team can 'listen' to the playing masses? If so, it is not very genuine or believable. I am very insulted by Statesman telling me when and how i should 'have fun' playing this game.

If the devs really listen to the paying playing masses, then go back through the past several months and hundreds of thousands of posts. Repeal or fix ED. Stop proclaiming these changes to COH are not aimed at 'balancing' PVP. Give us back the game we originally signed up for.

Sorry for the rant, but this spin doctoring is just an additional insult.

Waiting for the DC or Marvel MMOG.....

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Hey my tankers would love to have I5 tanker nerf done away with and live with just ED but no that is not going to happen its the affect of both that got me where it counts.

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Stamina is not any less necessary. It is still required for the vast majority of builds.

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It is only "necessary" if you wish to play a certain way. It is much less "necessary" than it was before. You see it as such because you wish to play that way. The game only assumes that you will spend at least part of your character on endurance management. Most choose stamina because it is the easy way out. Personally I also happen to like the perks offered by Swift, Hurdle and Health and so Stamina is absolutely no loss to me.

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Since we can only 3 slot Stamina now, it doesn't even let us break even to where we were before.

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FYI you can still six slot stamina.

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Instead of a certain play style you can choose the little old lady play style. Or the Over 40 over wieght long distance runner. Gasp Gasp gasp ok gotta rest.....

It is not required but why would you not want it such a super hero type thing to be fit and have boundless energy? Agreed i like swift and health a lott to. If your a Kinetic or a regen maybe your not taking it or if you have seriosuly slotted for end red then you need it less. Most of us having slogged through the low levels running out of end all the time are glad to see L20 come around.

My COV Brute still has serious END issues and i have to restock INSP before every mission. Yeah down time for the win. Even with 1 END red in every active power and 2 in a the higher end cost ones plus stamina 3 slotted i am gasping for breath. Popping around 5-6 Blues and taking a knee a couple times a mission depending on mission size. This character needs more stamina but its not availble to me.

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Don't agree. I think it defines a mentality. You don't have to be "unkillable" to subscribe to this philosophy.

Whether or not a particular build or power set can successfully pull it off (i.e. survive) is a question of design and skill.

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When i started this game i never wanted to be unkillable playing my tank. I did wanted to be damn tough though. I loved my tankers through I3 and 4. My prime a INV/SS never capped Eng/Ele untill around L41-42 when i heard about the coming nerfs and made a mad run to get to 50 before I5. I wanted to see what maxed resists were like and would never be again.
In my run through the 30's i had around 70-75% Eng/Ele tanking and had some of the most fun i have ever had in this game.

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Feel free to add Controller + Scrapper + Blaster + Blaster

PS: I tend to focus on Defenders because since I stopped playing my Tank my Defender has become my Main and he out performs by Tank by a significant margin IMO.

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This thread is depressing.

Just do the all defender team and see the power.

I'm about ready to give up on all of my tankers. As a casual player I have none that are 50 yet and will never get there it seems. I agree with Jagged in that my Defender is my best option and most fun to play. Tankers are all forced into the scranker roll with out the tools to do the job.

Once the devs are done castrating the AT perhaps thay can review the "fun factor" again.

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Wow my feelings mirror yours. My defenders are a lot more fun than my tankers and actually solo Prior to I6 far faster as well. Given simialr Resists/Def my brutes are also more fun gee i wonder why?

In my post I5 playing trying to Level up my defender Psiberia. Almost all the PU teams were scrappers and defenders. For spice we might have a Controller maybe even a blaster. Occasionally there was a tank already on the team when i joined. What made for the best tank was one +2 to the mission level and everyone else.
When the one +2 tank dropped the team wanted another tank but we found a Controller first and we were just as good or better (secondary Buffs).

We needed more damage output not tank like aggro control. We needed Controler holds and Defender buffs more. Yes we did Carnie missions Train missions.

Well Tom i am lost and not sure what to do mostly the huge stock pile of INF i have and the loss of the heart of tanking has turned my role into that of an INF bank for my other characters. I have shelved her in her I4 glory and only really use her on test or to compare between test and what a I4 was like. Dont get me wrong even after I5 and I6 with no respec (on Live) i can still solo but the fun is gone for me. I can herd up helper monkeys but it breaks my concept to be a SR tanker.

When I do play its solo only. Since i built this tanker in Early December and it was my first i tried to build a classic tanker who was the first in and the last out kind. I cannot fill the role i was built for anymore I do not fit my concept anymore so the few times i play i solo. I soloed about 50% of my 47 levels on my main and thats all i do now because thats what still make me feel like i did prior to I5.

Sorry Tom I am not that up beat about my tanks anymore. But i cling to the hope that one day i will be able to come backout of the shadows. I hope someone will come up with that something that makes me want to get back and be a tank again. Which is why i keep checking back here help me see the light guys.

I took SS/Dark because i like SS and i was sick of what happened to INV that i wanted something else. The other reason for dark is that i thought it would be cool for a tanker so of course i had to try it on my Brute. I had one SS/Dark in Beta and got to 12 nicely but not as fast as i did in this last weekend. Go Brute squad.

I will also want to try a Dark/INV for fun and then a SS/INV because i have to.

Why must we be brought down to this level. I thought this was a super hero game where you get to do super hero kinds of things?

This game should be the one to break the MMOG mold and break out with super cool action powers and special effects.
Instead since the I4 movement power nerf idea there seesm to be a mentality to slow down game play and weaken the heros. I dont want the same things as another online game but with cool costumes. I want to feel like I am having a classic super fight. I did not order COH Lite. I like the way the powers had choices. Note i said had....
When i first started playing and bragging to my friends about the power choices and your ablitity to freely slot them i thought it was so cool.

I was also excited about COV but if this si the way thigns are going to be then why bother if its going to be lame from the start. Between I4 (movement nerf which was somewhat repealed) to I5 smacking of my tanker to this i can only see a downward spiral.

I used to be excited to read the boards to see what everyone was doing how they were building to catch an AAR etc. Now i read teh boards a fraction of the time i used to becasue it makes me frustrated to see a game i loved so much changing into something i dont like anymore.

Totally the way I have been trying to play my offender Psiberia. Granted I am only L34 and just got FS I am still learnign how to best slot and have two respecs to test out on the test server before live changes.
Right now I think I have it dialed up to 10 or 11 and working on 12. Is it just me or do you feel the need for speed that is my Kinetics build motto.
I have dieded a more due to hold etc lately but as you said I do not stay in debt long. My blasters take for ever to get out but my Offender on team it takes not very long.

T

Pychic Crush
Website: none
Leaders: Psiberia
Preferred Method of Contact: Forum PM
Guild Description: After getting to L32 with no SG invites I decied to make my own (this is the first SG i have built). This is a new SG and its only me right now I am not in a hurry to build it. But if it interests anyone please contact me in game @ArchLight or via the forum here.

The concept is Psychic powers either Controllers or Defenders with Psi powers. This includes Defenders and controllers that have pychic powers from the EPP.

Otherwise I like the fact that above my head it says Psychic Crush. Heck that just sounds cool which is why I finally did it.

I was going to limit it further but it seems like a fairly small draw already. As you can see in my sig Psiberia is L34 now.

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so the changes to unstoppable in issue 3 were because of pvp?

pvp is the new thing to blame, since pvp is being tested now every change is because of pvp.

ss and sj get a 50% accuracy debuff, just like flight has had. hell flight still isnt up to par with its speed and end cost.

moment of glory and elude get timer increased, just like unstoppable. seems consistant to me

people are always gonna find a reason to gripe i guess, wether it is warranted or not

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I agree that there will always be complainers. But saying Flight is not going to be up to par whats it going to take? If you make speed, end costs to be the same as SS or SJ then why ever take a vertically challenged power? There has to be some benifit. Fly is the best tactical movement type power there is full 3d movement already and no vertical limits.

I do not see why fly needs an -ACC since it is slower and cost more end.

If this goes through I see little reason to take SJ or more so SS. Fly has it all 3 D movement range control you can cross danger areas safer. Yeah it has higher end but thats does not off set the tactical advantages it has. You can also choose to hover if need to.

In fact I see no reason the have -ACC on any movement power.

If this goes through do SS at least get to run up the sides of buildings now? To compensate for some lack of vertical? That would look cool but might be to tough to do.

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Well, aparently both the ice tankers got together and managed to tank something, so the Devs felt it was time for a nerf.

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I did not think that both the Ice tankers were on the same server. They must have gotten together on test.

I just made L32 and have had rage since L30 and love it granted the down time was hard to live with in the beginning. I watch my END much closer now and toggle hasten to help get it back sooner. I never use Hasten and Rage at the same time for fear of END drop at the same time. But I do stagger the start time o hasten. Since I fight +4-5 level targets all the time loosing my toggles would be bad.

I have learned how to best use it and while not perma I click it as soon as its back.

At 32 I got Unstoppable and the drop in Rage does not compare to the Drop in Unstoppable. I have yet to figure out how to make it work without outside help.

Arch Light INV/SS Mutant



She was once a special agent for Dept 56 and worked as a field agent when she encountered a crash site the radiation from the crash site trigger dormant mutant powers and abilities. When the department found out she was a mutant she was release and given a civilian job. But the radiation had already started a change and her dormant Powers to become active and she trained and became the hero known as Soul Catcher till she reached Security level 47 when the Rikti attacked she fought valiantly but eventually she fell in the battle with horrible injuries. When she recovered she found that she was imprisoned in a secret lab (Faction unknown even to this date).



They experimented on her for years eventually loosing most of her powers or the memory of how to use them. Another effect of the year of imprisonment was the near continual mind wipes to keep her from remembering has made her somewhat vulnerable to Psionic attacks now.



One day the experiment went to far and she was exposed to radiation similar to her first exposure. This briefly activated her powers in their former glory and she escaped. In this way she approached Paragon City again this time working up from security level 1, new powers learning the ropes once again with new memories and a new name. She one day hopes to be able to fly again but so far the damage seems to keep that power from working and the best she can manage is smallish jumps not quite up to Super Jump standards.



Her years of treatment and torture have turned her into quite the resilient tanker and she seems nearly invulnerable. While classed as a Super Strong tanker her strength is still no where near where it was at its peak. Nor does it ever look like it will return.

I like the look of my Female character better especially if what you see is from behind most of the time. I have my Male characters and I like them too but the look is not as cool as some of my Fem.