Wintry

I see, it seems I read too far and with that read too many replies which lost focus of the thread's intention quickly.
In that event... the times:

STF has been done in 22:38 before. This was with temps, but it was also in i19, so if incarnate powers can more or less offset shivans/chem/bio then that sub 25 should definitely be possible.
Whether or not it's been done yet I'm not sure.

I haven't seen any recent numbers appear of exactly what you're asking for, MO versions of those TFs with full teams, that is.
But there have been a few times floating about that can be compared to these to give an idea of how good/bad it is.

MoITF was done in 18:28 "recently" as said in that post when it was 30-04. If at that time it was "recently" it was at just about the time the patch came that made our reactives do silly things. It's highly likely such reactives were not involved in that time in which case I'd think your MoITF time could still be improved a bit.

There was apparently a Tin Mage also before crazy reactives that was done in 13:something.
Granted, people may have died, but for comparison sake that's irrelevant. Temps weren't used which is all that matters, if people died that just means they could've saved more time by not dying and having to run back. Any time you were to put into improving your MO Tin Mage time would most likely not be wasted.


Another interesting thing to take note of is it seems that the more incarnate powers everyone has the less each individual person still matters.
Ofcourse you still need a minimum number of people to make it work, but on an incarnate team any additional people beyond that won't cut the time down by as much as on a non-incarnate team anymore.

Example:
You've done MoITF in 17:58. I'll assume that was with a full team.
If so, I've done an MoITF 153 seconds slower... with 6 people less...

The same people that ran the before-mentioned MoITF also did an MoKhan in 19:44 (have you done any MoKhan btw?).
Here the difference is a bit bigger, but still small enough to illustrate my point: duo MoKhan took 25:50.

That should give a few ideas to put your times in perspective.
For the exact runs you asked about I'll nudge the usual suspects that may've run them recently in-game in case they haven't seen this thread yet.

Word for word what I would've told you until a good month ago. Litterally, precisely.
You won't know if you won't try and obviously you don't have to try, but... you know, just leaving my advice.

If you would've suggested to me what I just suggested to you before i20 or even when it was just out I would've told you to go bug someone else with rediculous ideas, but now I'm having more fun than I've had ever since i8 and all the time I missed out on that was because I thought what you just said applied to myself just as much.
All I changed was I started ignoring 50 content, bar the odd duo run I only do because it's fun thanks to a fun duo partner.

Take it or leave it, but yeah... that's my advice.

Dunno what mobs you fight or what toons you play but even on +4 just about the only thing that doesn't seem to immediately drop dead when I look at it is Rularuu.

So you invest all that time in making all your toons full incarnates and then pay your sub just so you can spend another month of repeating 10 minute BAF/Lambda runs?
Well, that's cool if that's your thing, I guess.

In theory you're right, in practice it makes no sense at all.


@OP

Agreed, we've become massively OP. i20 drove me off 50s in no time.

But... it's not necessarily a bad thing. Simply not logging on those 50s, but rather playing lowbies again can be really fun. Maybe you don't find it fun, maybe you do... hard to tell - one thing is sure though: you can bring back that challenge in the game.
Moreover, you can still do those TFs. Even in crazy ways you shouldn't even be trying.

For instance: duo ITF on +0x4 by 2 lvl 39s (SK'd by TF to 49 - thus an effective rep of +1x4) using nothing but SOs for enhancements.



Whether or not you find it fun will differ per person, but it sure worked for me. Give it a go I'd say. Find someone who likes to play the same way and at the same pace as yourself and roll lowbies together. Old school gameplay - especially now with the incarnate mess - cannot be beaten.
Plus I bet for most people there are still some story arcs out there they've never run yet.

Well, we've done this now and yup... reactives cut the time down by another good 5 minutes.

New Power Icons - I17/Ultra Mode friendly!

Ty. I'm fairly sure we should be able to shave a couple more minutes off it now actually so I'm considering another go...
This run I posted about here was done before Paragon Studios *cough* 'fixed Reactive'...
As you can see in the screenshot I was using Diamagnetic anyway, but Sky had reactive and he's fire/cold. Thanks to this supposed 'fix' reactive DoT now procs on every tick of both his Sleet and RoF, which is a definite timesaver...

About the same with the exception of when I'm sipping my coffee with the coffee glass in my right hand which I normally use the mouse with.
In that case in a distant past I used to sometimes touch the Q and E keys to steer my toon as I was autorunning somewhere.
Nowadays I need everything I can find near WSAD to bind the overload of powers to so when this situation presents itself I somewhat awkwardly fiddle with the WSAD keys and the mouse with one hand.

Still, the coffee takes priority.

You notice these things?
It all looks familiar to me as I'm reading this, but I never stopped to think about it myself, I just smash...

Tbh the not putting weapons away and not having to redraw thing is something I'd like to see used much more widely, not just when it comes to these sets.
I'd find for instance a set like Icy Assault a whole lot more interesting if you could hit something with Ice Sword, then fire an Ice Bolt with one hand while keeping the ice sword in the other and then follow up with Ice Sword Circle again without having to redraw (or in this case 'reconstruct'?) the ice sword.

Especially since (I haven't played with sound for quite some time anymore, but iirc this used to be the case...) the ice sword makes its own chilly sound for as long as it's out. I personally find it a bit of a disturbing factor if you have such an effect going before and after, but it has to vanish and leave some emptiness for no particular reason while you're using a different power.

Source: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=258874

AppData is hidden by default.
Even if you don't know where to or can't set hidden files and folders to be shown you can still get there.
At the top of an explorer window where it shows your current location if you click behind the last folder name it turns into a normal 'address bar' sort of thing so you get to see and can change the path.
Entering "C:\Users\[username]\AppData" there will take you there.

It does. I'm on a solo LGTF atm, clearing mitos at the moment so I can't make a screenie to show you right this second, but the whole 3 clockwork that accompanied clockwork king for instance and the no less than 4 whole rikti that guarded most of these pylons don't agree with you.

1 boss, 1 lieut and 2 minions to keep Infernia under control before I freed her... all spawns throughout the TF really are tiny on x1 while the minimum player required to start is 8.

VERY nice - grats.

For reference though, did you use the police drones?

We weren't very lucky on our defense rolls in the first bit where you need to clear the 3 hotspots which caused too many trips from hospital and we spent probably the most time of everything on all those Warwalker EBs.

Indeed, I would've already gone for duo BAF if not for this, but I'm on a low pop server which makes it tricky.
I'll still get to it soon I guess, but first I'm gonna work on getting that MoITF time down some more, because it's still far from optimal judging from the previous runs.

No, fixed spawns like for instance the romans on 4th mission of ITF on the towers and in front of rommy are all consistent in size since they're all individually placed to get them neatly lined up like that in a formation, but the vast majority of mobs is spawned like any other mobs outside of TFs afaik (though with a higher LT to minion and boss to LT ratio) and take into account difficulty settings.
On non-incarnate TFs that means generally all difficulty settings are taken into account (except for instance the inner circle and LR himself etc on STF which are forced 54s as well) and on Apex the + modifier won't have an effect, but x still does.

At least... I didn't test that for Apex specifically, but I presumed so going by the fact I know that's the case in many other TFs.

What only lasts seconds?
1 mob? Level offset? Multiplier?
Cause I could be wrong, but I'd think doms, even fire doms, would be rather slow on the killing side of things...

FYI, I believe if the BAF cutscene is made substantially longer to accommodate your bath people will be slightly unhappy.
Just saying!