Arbegla
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/BruisingOriginally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Yeah, Bruising is nice on a team and solo. Kind of wish we had had it on that all Tanker LGTF about 6 months ago where Honoree took forever when he started firing his Tier 9, would have made it a little easier, even if he would have only had one application on him.
Its resistable, so with things like unstoppable, and other cheating NPC's T9 giving upwards fo 100% resistances, im not sure exactly how bruising would help out
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Quote:Originally Posted by Justaris
Not impossible in the least and potentially quite a powerhouse. EM doesn't have a lot of AOE outside of Foot Stomp, however, so it may not be as good for farming as a secondary that is more AOE-centric such as Elec. I can't speak to PvP as I don't do that, but I can say with certainly that the endurance issues are more than manageable and that you can tank very well indeed with Dark Armor.
Pretty sure you meant whirling hands. Dark offers a damage aura, and the stun aura, which would stack with the stuns from EM, and make PvE pretty easy.
To the OP:
PvP on the other hands, got changed around ALOT, and neither of those sets offer a whole lot, due to the way things stack up now. DR hurts, and travel suppression means melee has a hard time getting hits in, even with hard hitting attacks like total focus, and energy transfer. Plus, awhile ago Energy transfer had its animation time nearly tripled, and i'm not sure if you left before that happened.
All in all, i think it'll be a nice combo, but as PvP is a different animal now, if i were you, i'd look up the changes and go from there. -
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE be issue 19! i can haz inherent fitness nao?
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gloom has pretty high DPS, and claws redraw is pretty quick to, I'm pretty sure that if focus isn't up, gloom is about the second best thing you can use at range. If your closing into melee, claws has much better tricks to use i think.. (spin, evis, etc)
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Fury, solo, in normal conditions, caps at around 75-80. On large teams, with lots of AoEs, and lots of tohit rolls being made agaisnt you (cuz its not being hit, its getting hit at that builds fury) You can hit levels of 100 fury. Plus the frenzy power, for being a full fledge villain i think caps your fury at 100.
Fury decays at a much slower rate then it used to. And it builds alot faster now. Attacking with your attacks, and being attacked at builds fury. If you find yourself low on fury, go run into a mob. Even if you dont throw a single attack, your fury will build pretty quickly. -
I'll give you the long recharge on inferno, but how does it require good support from the rest of the team to use? pop a blue, consume, end of story. Mobs that didn't die to inferno, will die from defiance fueled inferno, and consume, and the blaster has topped off his end bar.
Bosses can be taken down just as quickly on a blaster as on a scrapper, blasters just have to use different methods other then face pounding to do it.
electric melee's other two AoEs are jacobs ladder, a small melee cone, and thunderstrike, which is about the smallest PBAoE possible at 7ft. Blasters /elec thunderstrike has a bigger radius, and hits much harder.
My point remains, once you factor in team mates, and survivial becomes a none issue, blasters will be able to out damage anything else out there, due to access to bigger AoEs, harder hitting melee attacks, and a better variety of AoEs available. -
yeah, but it really rips up some attack chains. Kinetic normally wouldnt use Quick Strike, but a tanker needs it. I've been wondering if anyone would be able to redo all the attack chains for all the sets, using the new bruising inherent, so tankers now have a totally different chain then scrappers or brutes..
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Quote:Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Short reply, blasters may be fun, but they are increasingly underpowered relative to other ATs.
A_F, I've think i've listed plenty of ways where blasters are not underpowered relative to other ATs, so whats your reasoning behind it? Especially when you've agreed with my listing of things.
Blasters are more AoEs then any other class or combination, thus allowing them to dish out more overall damage then any other class or combination due to the sheer numbers of attacks available to them.
All the blasters primary, and secondary powersets add damage in one form or another, where as other ATs primary and secondary powersets may or may not mesh together to equate to solid damaging attacks. (/shield adds damage via AAO, and shield charge but BU/aim equates to about what AAO provides, and shield charge is only 1 attack, where /fire on a blaster adds 6 solid AoE attacks, 2 of which are damage toggles.)
Nothing can out AoE a blaster, due to limitations on recharge. Yes, LR + SC on a elec/shield may wipe that whole mob, but best case, you'll have to wait 25 seconds to do it again. on a fire/fire Fireball + firesword circle does the same thing, and you have combustion plus fire breath to wipe another group, then Inferno + consume for the third group, all within the same recharge, with little to no waiting in between. -
First step (shuffle?) in the Mechwarrior genre of robotic, mobile death machines. I can't wait.
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Another issue i've discovered is PvP sets giving both bonuses while in PvE mode. This could confuse alot of people (i was wondering why my attacks are higher range, when i didn't slot any range in them, then say a PvP set i had slotted that boosted range)
Looks like the PvP only flag was turned off/disabled. -
I'm liking the support for the swap ammo, but I'm running into an issue with the inherent fitness. Stamina seems to work just just fine, but on builds i've work on with the unofficial fitness inherent update seems a little wonky.
I know its not officially supported, so i should prolly just work with older builds, but I wanted to explain the issue i'm having. Stamina has somehow overwrote brawl, so it says 'stamina' where brawl is, and is keeping the sets slotted in it, even though in the information window, it says brawl. and swift/hurdle and health aren't being displayed, even though the slots i had in health are accounted for. Its just not displaying it.. -
I think i worded that wrong. I meant the mines are good for stealth stacked with -perception situations while solo, or teamed (toss a smoke grenade, then toe bomb), and the gun drone is good single target damage all around
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Also, stay out of melee. Your a ranged corruptor, and travel suppression means you can slow them down ALOT more then they can slow you down, (infridge slows em, + suppression means they are basically crawling in your general direction) then benumb, and goto town. Don't let them hit you, and you'll be able to trash em on an ice/cold corr.. oh, and get hibernate, cuz your PvPing.. and well, yeah.
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learn to benumb better.
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Thats because mid's averages the chances out, equally, and doesn't factor in the .95 at the end.
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Dieing.
I actually think dark armory offers endurance drain resistance, so carnies and malta shouldn't be much of an issue, so outside of the occasional death, you basically have unlimited endurance
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Quote:I wouldn't go that far. Using the information i found out, it basically shows that blasters get about 30% damage for just being their class, another 13.75% for having aim, and 22% for having build up, plus 39% for being sonic blast.
I appreciate the effort you put in the above, but it only highlights the problems with the at. At this point we are talking about extremely aertificial teams for the blaster to be a competitive choice. We still haven't considered the benefits that other ATs bring to the picture Aggro control (brutes/tanks), (comparable/damage and aggro management brutes/scrappers), (comparable damage + control doms/controllers (containment)) etc
Which, accounting for their 1.125 damage scale, and access to more AoEs means that it'll be hard pressed to out damage a AoE geared blasters. Even the least AoE centric blast powerset (psionic Blast) still has 2 AoEs, one being targeted, with a above normal radius (20ft) and psionic wail, which has a mag 3 stun attached to it. Yes, the old school end crashes are annoying, but as previously explained there are plenty of ways to mitigate them.
Where blasters start to really shine is in AoE heavy environments (large teams) where survivability is a non issue, due to controlled aggro (tanker/brute), increased survival (defenders/corruptors), or hard controls (dominators/controllers).
In a solo environment, on the default setting, blasters have no issue doing what they do best, damage. Once you start increasing that difficulty setting, and adding more mobs to the fray, things like specific powersets, and Invention Origins needs to be factored in, but as already been said in this thread, the game isn't balanced around those, and it'll get really complicated to factor in everything against each high end IO build.
Do blasters really need help? No. Are they as easy to play as a scrapper/brute? No. Can they deal out more damage, in more situations? Yes. Do they need outside help to do it? Probably, but thats what teams are for. Once you take survivability out of the equation, blasters can open up their arsenal, and goto town. They have access to the most AoEs when compared to other damage dealing classes, and have higher target caps on said AoEs when compared to other damage dealing classes.
While some specific AoEs are the same across various ATs (ice blast comes to mind) the blaster will have a secondary that will add pure amounts of damage, be it single target hits, or more AoEs. The secondaries that don't add AoE damage, add various forms of mitigation, which can not be unaccounted for.
/Ice offers Ice patch, Chilling embrace and shiver which allow a blaster to not just save themselves, but to benefit a team as well.
/Elec offers a damage aura, and ability to drain endurance, plus hard hitting melee attacks, which can definitely help out in just about any situation.
/Dev offers stealth which allows the blasters to get the first hit off in most cases, soft controls in the form of caltrops and smoke grenade (fear component and -perception) Extra AoE and single target damage from the mines, and gun drone, which can be used in the thick of combat, when used in conjunction with a team, or the combination of stealth and -perception
/Fire we've already touched on, but it just offers extreme amounts of extra damage, via 2 damage auras (one with soft control, in the form of the afraid mechanic), the ability to refill your end bar every 90ish seconds, and just burn things up in a rather quick setting
/energy offers the least amount of AoE but adds some of the hardest hitting melee attacks, as well as abilities to enhance what the blaster needs at the time, be it range, endurance management, or needing to lock down mobs effectively. It can also stack a large amounts of stuns, which prevents the enemy from hitting either a teammate, or the blaster itself.
/mental offers the only ranged AoE in all the secondarys, as well as a perma-able -regen, and -recovery, which boosts the regen and recovery of the blaster, allowing them to shrug off some of the largest hits, due to sheer regeneration. It also gets a damage aura of sorts, which offers hard control (confuse) and can allow the blaster to sit in melee, and attack freely, without worry of being hit back. -
While i have yet to discover a way to actually tell if a teammate is mez, i did create a macro that pretty much said via team 'If your mez'ed say 'ZZZ' and i'll fix you!' And i usually keep the anti-mez on ATs i know have no inherent mez protection (like fellow corruptors, some dominators, and masterminds, but not the pets, as its a waste of time) Blasters, defenders, and controllers are also in that mix, as well as Peacebringers, and warshades, but i'm sure even now some of those are hard to find V side.
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Ok, so lets break down the -res, and +dam available to defenders, corruptors, and blasters, and see (without adding in outside buffs) how they all stack together.
For the sake of powers like FS, I'm going to limit it to 1 application, at 1 target, but note how much +dam it gives for each additional target and assume the recharge (and available mobs) to keep it perma. I'm going to assume, in most cases FS will be used instead of siphon power, as it’s more bang for the buck per say.
Blasters, due to defiance, can sustain about a 30% damage increase by merely using their primary and secondary attacks. This may go higher, but 30% is a good average with SO slotting, and constantly attacking. Damage scale of 1.125 range, 1.000 melee
Defenders, while solo get 30% damage increase post level 20, which drops off the more teammates you have, at 10% per teammate (so a defender on a duo only has 20%, on a trio 10%, and anything higher 0%) Damage scale of .65
Corruptors, get a chance to Scourge (double damage) on any enemy below 50% hit points, scaling up to 100% chance when the enemy has 10% or less hit points. Which scales to about 2.5% chance for double damage every % the enemy is below 50%. So, the math to figure out how much Scourge actually adds is dependant on the mobs hit points, but in most bases its only factorable in regards to boss or higher rank mobs. Anything lower, and scourge is generally just wasted extra damage. On boss or higher ranking mobs, Scourge supplies corruptors with enough extra damage to sustain a .95 damage scale, but only for the last 50% of said mobs base hit points. So while mob hit points > 50% corruptors’ damage scale is .75. When mob hit points
Now, let’s take a look at the different blast sets. 'B' is available to blasters, 'C' is available to corruptors, and 'D' is available to defenders.
Archery -> B, C, D Aim
Assault rifle -> B, C, D
Dark Blast -> C, D
Dual Pistols -> B, C, D
Elect Blast -> B, C, D Aim
Energy Blast -> B, C, D Aim
Fire Blast -> B, C Aim
Ice Blast -> B, C, D Aim
Psi Blast -> B, D Aim (blaster only)
Rad Blast -> B, C, D Aim
Sonic Blast -> B, C, D Aim
Aim, with 3 recharge slotted equates to about a 13.75% damage increase on blasters, a 11% damage increase on Defenders, and a 9.35% damage increase on Corruptors.
5 out of 6 of the secondary’s on blaster has Build up, which with 3 recharge slotted equates to about a 22% damage increase.
Sonic blast, while available to all three ATs, gives different values for it's -res. Assuming each AT can keep at lest 3 blasts up at all times, a blaster would have an additional 39% +dam (-res and +dam are basically interchangeable), a defender would have +60%, and a corruptor would have +45%
Now onto the buff/debuff sets. Again, D is for defender, C is for corruptor.
Rad -> D, C -> D gets +25% damage, -30% res, C gets +20% dam, -22.5% res
Dark -> D, C -> D gets -60% res (2 tar patches max); C gets -60% res (2 tar patches max)
Sonic -> D, C -> D gets -30% res while solo, -60% when grouped (-30% from sonic siphon, -30% from Disruption field), C gets -22.5% res while solo, -45% res when grouped (-22.5% from Sonic siphon, -22.5% from disruption field)
Storm -> D, C -> D gets -35% res, C gets -30% res
Traps -> D, C -> D gets -53.2% res (2 acid mortars max), C gets -40% res (2 acid mortars max)
Cold -> D, C -> D gets -30% res, C gets -30% res
Kinetic -> D, C -> D gets +75% damage first target, +25% each additional , C gets +60% damage first target, +20% each additional
Force Field -> D -> No -res, or +dam present within the power set
Empathy -> D -> +31.3% damage to ally (unable to cast on self)
Pain -> C -> +25% damage (self only after using Share pain), +30% damage on self for 60secs, -30% damage for 30secs afterwards after using Conduit of Pain, 16% damage in PBAoE, -22.5% res in PBAoE, +50% damage to ally (unable to cast on self)
Thermal -> C -> +40% damage to ally (unable to cast on self), -22.5% res
I'm pretty sure that breaks down all the -res, and +dam available to Blasters, Defenders, and Corruptors. Using the above numbers, it should be much easier to figure out an accurate way to combine different primary and secondary powers to best illustrate how a blaster may be able to better boost a team. -
Quote:I'm not just meaning you'll be immune to mez's, because yes, force field, and traps have built in mez protection, but you'll still have to be within melee range to use some of traps tricks, Seekers for example, explode, so once they pull aggro, it falls back onto the Mastermind. Your going to take damage as a mastermind, unless you stay completely out of combat, in which case your not using a whole lot of your secondary.Originally Posted by Another_FanI am sorry here masterminds aren't the most survivable AT in the game because of body guard mode. Its a nice trick but it really pales in comparison to not being where combat is. At villain hamidon raids you can see masterminds hiding behind a rock (playing cards or dice ?) while they send an endless stream of henchmen to antagonize the Hamidon. Not even stone tanks backed up by teams of defenders are that safe.
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Quote:Again, the problem with that statement doesn't take into consideration that fact that some debuffs on a mastermind have shorter ranges, and some even require melee in order to execute.Originally Posted by Another_Fan
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| Pets | enemy | * Mastermind | | pets | enemy | | *mastermind Or in glorious ascii cinema | | M P E | | | | | M P E | | | | | M P E | ^ Mastermind is making an executive decision to investigate his workforce's progress and see if his workers comp premium is going up.
/dark has a PBAoE heal, which is pretty darn useless to use unless its affecting your pets, which may be in melee range. Darkest Night can pull aggro onto the mastermind, so even at range, they will be taking hits. Shadow fall is PBAoE, and again is only useful to the mastermind if its benefiting his pets.
/traps has various short range attacks that work best within melee range, Seeker drones being about the only actual range debuff available.
/pain has World of Pain, a PBAoE buff, which while you can cast before combat, is best used during combat. Anguishing Cry is a PBAoE debuff, which you'll definitely need to be in melee range to pull off, and may also pull aggro on top of you.
/poison is basically all range debuffs, but can still have aggro thrown back onto the mastermind due to the strength of the debuffs.
/storm has Steamy mist, which would only benefit the pets if they are within range of it.
/thermal is a PBAoE heal, which doesn't do the pets much good if they are out of range of it, and melt armor can definitely pull aggro onto the mastermind due to the AoE nature of it.
/trick arrow is again, pretty much all range, and it has enough tools at its disposal to avoid closing in on the enemy entirely.
So, out of all the secondary, there's about 3 where you can avoid closing into melee more often then not, but for the other sets, having to be in combat allows you to better use all your powers available to you.
Even when not at the damage cap, blasters have higher modifiers to their 'aim' and they get 'build up' as well in most cases, which you really can't factor out. They allows them to buff their own damage much higher then a corruptor or defender would be able to do without using targeted buffs. (FS comes to mind, on a ice/ or fire/ corruptor, but that requires you to hit your target, and be in melee range of those affected be it, where a blaster can hit BU and aim, and wouldn't need any other enemies to attain that damage)Quote:I didn't want to bring this up but we have been using everything at the damage cap because it favored your side of the argument. If the best case you can make using the most favorable conditions possible is not very good then the situation becomes more pronounced as the conditions get worse.
In this case the blaster is gaining an additional 25% relative to the buff/debuff from being at the cap.
The Damage cap example allows for you to ignore defiance as a mini-fury, and ignore any other damage buffs the blaster may be able to put on themselves. Scourge requires the enemy to have 50% or less hitpoints left for it to kick in, where defiance allows a blaster to build up their self damage from just attacking. Add in the increased single target damage, and blasters can pull ahead of their corruptor counterparts, without factoring in the actual damaging powers blasters secondary allows them to have. -
so something like (ps)->QS->SB->BB->CS->SB->BB->CS would work best? though i'm not sure i can get the recharge of CS down that far without tossing a ton of purples into the mix.
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I didn't say you had to be right next to a mezzer, just that you can't stay completely out of harms way. Pets have a higher threat modifier then the mastermind, so they can keep most mobs focused on them, but assuming, as Another_Fan has, that masterminds can completely avoid combat, while still delivering massive debuffs/buffs is just not possible.
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Quote:If that Mastermind is using his secondary effectively, he can't stay completely out of harms way. The longest range debuff a Mastermind has is only 90ft, which is tar patch. Everything else varies between PBAoE (Anguishing Cry from Pain Domination) to 80 ft. Which the longest range is 90ft for some of the pet attacks (Robots) shortest being melee range (ninjas, zombies) So for that mastermind to completely avoid being in combat, they have to stand away from their pets, which could prevent from being able to buff said pets, and also be out of range of their debuffs they could be placing on the enemy.Originally Posted by Another_FanIf a mastermind says that ,you just have to tell him ,"Stop standing next to the pets".Quote:Originally Posted by BiosparkI would beg to differ strongly with the highlighted statement. Having played every "un-armored" AT many, many times, the new defiance combined with no-toggle-drop helps Blasters tremendously. I have no doubt that many Defenders/Controllers/Corruptors and even Masterminds would argue that they are in last place in that mezz-susceptable line. I KNOW my Empath will argue this one with you.
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I think you meant this threadWhich has very specific rules which require 3 melee ATs at the very least. Thus its not a very good example. Now, stating this
May be true, assuming someone else is able to throw the buff/debuffs to keep the /ice defender or ice/corruptor at said damage cap. And that Ice/ corruptor or /ice defender will only out perform a blaster that refuses to use their secondary or APP to supplement their damage. And again, once the AoEs have hit, the blaster pulls much further ahead on single target damage. Scourge is a very nice inherent, but on a team; it's not nearly as useful due to the sheer amount of AoE damage all hitting at once.Quote:The problem your argument hits is if you are adding particular builds, adding particular corruptors easily wins adding particular defenders also easily wins. /Ice defenders, and Fire, ICE corruptors do the exact same AoE damage with their rain powers that blasters do. In the case of a corruptor at the damage cap their blizzard is going to be much more than a blaster could ever hope to do because of scourge.
Stating that range is a negative due to the 5% chance to be hit, and ranged attacks following a blaster is under rating your down survivability scenario. If you have enough survivability due to buff/debuffs where that blaster can use all their AoEs, most of which are PBAoE in relative safety.
If a single one of those defenders/controllers/corruptors which are providing those buff/debuffs have a heal, then it completely negates the worry of actually being hit, as long as those hits don't one shot a PC, which there are mechanics in place to prevent that from happening.