Gah! I thought I answered this hours ago, but I didn't finish. Looks like 86% in Blinding Feint (6.47 seconds), 71% in Sweeping Strike (6.47 seconds) and 52% in Vengeful Slice (5.28 seconds). I suspect you can do better than the Gaussian proc if you have a spare slot in Blinding Feint. Also, it's nice to have a full Gaussian set.
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Sorry I can't help you with your question but was wondering about this. Have you checked to see if the proc really stacks using a Power Analyser or whatever?|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
In case you're wondering, I have an Achille's proc in Ablating Strike too, and yes, they DO stack with each other. Figured I'd mention that, since I don't recall seeing anyone post about a Dual Blades tank using the proc (since Dual Blades is the only tanker set that can slot it anywhere that I know of)
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I was under the impression that it couldn't even stack from different casters, since the way it works (or I think it works) is that when it goes off, the critter casts the -res on themselves. Which is why you get the full -20% res even on AVs.
Maybe I'm wrong about that though, so have you tested it?
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No, what I meant was the Achilles' Heel proc stacks with the bruising effect that is now a tanker inherent. |
Originally Posted by Silas
Sorry I can't help you with your question but was wondering about this. Have you checked to see if the proc really stacks using a Power Analyser or whatever?
I was under the impression that it couldn't even stack from different casters, since the way it works (or I think it works) is that when it goes off, the critter casts the -res on themselves. Which is why you get the full -20% res even on AVs. Maybe I'm wrong about that though, so have you tested it? |
Tanker tier 1 attacks have an automatic 20% resistance debuff, that they were given to help them solo easier (especially at low levels), it is THAT effect the Achilles' proc will stack with.
I've confirmed it just by watching the damage the powers are doing. Both Nimble Slash and Ablating Strike's damage comes in 2 equal chunks, and the -resistance takes effect on the first hit. If you pay attention, you'll notice that when the proc goes off, the second tick of damage will be higher. Now, with Nimble Slash, it happens every time, because it's a 100% chance. Occasionally, you will see the second tick of Ablating Strike be a higher number as well, which indicates the proc has gone off.
Since I only have the two attacks at the level I'm currently at, I'm in a position to see if the Achilles' proc will go off immediately after the bruising effect debuffs them, and I've come to the conclusion that it will indeed stack.
Thanks for answering my question Werner, I appreciate it. I don't need the full Gaussian's set, I'm softcapped with one in range of Invincibility without it.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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OMG WTF BBQ? Do I need to get back to work on leveling my DPS tank? Why am I playing all these stupid Scrappers? If you need me, I'll be on the Tanker forum! |
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Tanker tier 1 attacks have an automatic 20% resistance debuff
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(Seriously, that's pretty awesome. That's what I get for not paying attention to game changes, particularly for other ATs.)
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
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And then, of course, does the Fury of the Gladiator -resist proc stack on top of this. Guessing yes they would and do but having no access to a FotG proc currently ... .
If the AH proc stacks with bruising, I think its safe to assume the Gladiators proc will as well though I have not tested this. The possiblity of stacking -60% res on a ST is pretty tempting though! hmmm, I'm thinking of starting my own DB tanker now...
Anyone know if the DoT caused by the attack vitals combo is effected by -res?
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EVERYTHING should be affected by the -resistance. It doesn't matter what the source of the damage is unless they've added some weird flags to it. That seems highly unlikely. It should just be straight -resistance.
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Originally Posted by doomrider
Anyone know if the DoT caused by the attack vitals combo is effected by -res?
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"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
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Am I read this thread correctly? Does a tank with dual blades have the ability to not only have bruising for -20% DR, but to stack on it the Achilles' Heel CFDRD in Ablating Strike AND the Fury of the Gladiator CFDRD in Sweeping Strike?
All while doing NS, BF, AttackVitals Combo?
daaaaaaaamn O.O
Be well, people of CoH.
Yep, least that's the thinking.
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Issue_18
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While Bruising does not stack with itself, it does stack with other -resist powers. So yes, you read that right. | New Inherent: Bruising -- When a Tanker uses a Secondary Tier 1 power, a Bruising effect occurs which is a 20% resistible damage resistance debuff which lasts for 10 seconds. Note: only one application of this effect on a given target is possible at a time. |
The downside to the Bruising is that it is single target only. High Single target damage sets like Super Strength or Energy Melee, as well as Fire Melee's DoT components, really benefit from the change.
Plus Fiery Embrace and Blazing Aura.....
Be well, people of CoH.
yeah, but it really rips up some attack chains. Kinetic normally wouldnt use Quick Strike, but a tanker needs it. I've been wondering if anyone would be able to redo all the attack chains for all the sets, using the new bruising inherent, so tankers now have a totally different chain then scrappers or brutes..
Yeah, Bruising is nice on a team and solo. Kind of wish we had had it on that all Tanker LGTF about 6 months ago where Honoree took forever when he started firing his Tier 9, would have made it a little easier, even if he would have only had one application on him.
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http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Bruising|
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Yeah, Bruising is nice on a team and solo. Kind of wish we had had it on that all Tanker LGTF about 6 months ago where Honoree took forever when he started firing his Tier 9, would have made it a little easier, even if he would have only had one application on him.
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Its resistable, so with things like unstoppable, and other cheating NPC's T9 giving upwards fo 100% resistances, im not sure exactly how bruising would help out
My understanding is that resistance debuffs are resisted by resistance. The net effect is that a 20% debuff is always a 20% buff to damage, unless there are additional ways to resist the debuffs. AV purple triangles don't do it. I wouldn't think NPC tier 9s would either.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
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See what happens when Claws thinks outside the box?
I just spawned a bunch of /Dual Blades tanks didn't I? 
In answer to another question posed: We've already established that the Achilles proc and the FotG proc will stack with each other, so since I've confirmed that the Achilles proc will indeed stack with Bruising, yes it should be possible to occasionally achieve a -60% resistance debuff on a single target while running NS-BF-AV.
Added bonus: That attack chain doesn't require a whole lot of recharge, so you can focus your slotting on survivability (my Invuln/DB tank's prospective build is pretty sick )
Edit: You can thank Johnny Butane for this in a way.....he pissed me off with his "WAAAAAHHHHH, scrappers can solo AVs and tanks can't!" whining, so I decided to prove him wrong and throw it in his face, which led me to the idea of stacking -resist with a Dual Blades tank.
My Invuln/Dual Blades should make short work of the heavily S/L using AVs like Marauder, Siege, Bobcat, Battle Maiden, Chimera, and so on. He'll have trouble with Infernal because his Fire resistance and defense aren't that great, and obviously Malaise and Mother Mayhem will annihilate him like any other Invuln, but that's still a few AVs that he should destroy with relative ease.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
You're certainly about to spawn at least one. I'd wanted to try DB for a while. So, Claws, do you have a primary suggestion for a Dual Blades DPS tank? The old standby, Shields, doesn't work, so... what does?
Personally, I'm thinking about Elec/DB. LR gives 20% recharge to help with that NS/BF/Attack Vitals chain, endurance problems are a non-issue, and there's Psi resist in the status toggle. No defense, though... not sure how that'll stack up.
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Well, mine is Invuln/Dual Blades, and I have it on good authority that Bill Z has started a Fiery Aura/Dual Blades (presumably to leverage the extra damage Fiery Embrace will add) |
Originally Posted by AnElfCalledMack
You're certainly about to spawn at least one. I'd wanted to try DB for a while. So, Claws, do you have a primary suggestion for a Dual Blades DPS tank? The old standby, Shields, doesn't work, so... what does?
Personally, I'm thinking about Elec/DB. LR gives 20% recharge to help with that NS/BF/Attack Vitals chain, endurance problems are a non-issue, and there's Psi resist in the status toggle. No defense, though... not sure how that'll stack up. |
I also considered a Dark Armor/Dual Blades, the only reason I didn't is that I already have a DA tank and I dislike leveling 2 of the same powerset simultaneously.
Electric should work nicely for it. The only primary that probably won't work so well would be Stone (and the obvious Shield since you can't make one)
I wasn't concerned about extra recharge, since Werner confirmed what I already susected, which is that NS-BF-AV can be achieved just using the slotting of the powers themselves (no global recharge is necessary to reach the recharge requirements). I wanted a combo where survival was all but guaranteed, so I went with Invuln because I don't have an Invuln anything yet.
Willpower will probably be a very nice fit, with the fact that endurance will be a non-issue for running the chain. In that regard, Electric will probably be a good choice as well, but Power Sink may interrupt your DPS slightly.
The only reason I posted this here instead of the tanker forums is that I know the hardcore number-crunchers tend to congregate here, and I needed hard numbers information to confirm my suspicions. I have the ability to do the math myself, but I lack the inclination, so I asked the people who enjoy that kind of thing.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Well, I hve multiple Elecs going, and I have neither a DA nor an Invuln...
Dammit, I want to go DA, but it's going to be painful until I19. Soft-capped DA tank with an attack chain like that?
Yeah, I'm gonna have to get used to the sound of toggles dropping, aren't I?
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Not necessarily. My wife has a DA/Fire tank that is softcapped to S/L/E/N, and she has no endurance issues to speak of. (and this is currently, it's only going to get better after i19)|
Originally Posted by AnElfCalledMack
Well, I hve multiple Elecs going, and I have neither a DA nor an Invuln...
Dammit, I want to go DA, but it's going to be painful until I19. Soft-capped DA tank with an attack chain like that? Yeah, I'm gonna have to get used to the sound of toggles dropping, aren't I? |
The main issue you'll encounter is the end consumption of Dark Regen, which you'll be using a lot until you get softcapped. The easiest fix for that is a Theft of Essence: Chance for +End in Dark Regen, but it's kind of expensive. (I got 2 on random rolls, I kept one for my BS/DA scrapper and gave the other to my wife for her tank)
If money is no object you can have a DA tank softcapped to S/L/E/N by level 34 or so. It's done utilizing Kinetic Combat and Eradication, which cap at level 35 and level 30 respectively. DA/DB could be a beastly combination if you're willing to sink the time and money into it. I'd say go for it, and you should be quite happy with it.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Well, money's not quite no object, but I can spring for one or two procs that'll make real quality-of-life improvements. Soft-capping can wait for a bit - I don't think I can manage Kinetic Combat, Eradication and Reactive Armor at the same time on my budgets. Thanks for all the advice.
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Eradication is actually pretty cheap. The only ones in the set that are expensive are the 4 piece and the proc. |
Originally Posted by AnElfCalledMack
Well, money's not quite no object, but I can spring for one or two procs that'll make real quality-of-life improvements. Soft-capping can wait for a bit - I don't think I can manage Kinetic Combat, Eradication and Reactive Armor at the same time on my budgets. Thanks for all the advice.
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Kinetic Combat isn't too crazy, the 3 piece and Dam/End are pricey, but the rest of it is reasonable.
Reactive Armor can be gotten relatively inexpensively if you buy the recipe and craft it yourself. In fact all of them can be gotten cheaper by crafting yourself.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
We forgot to add in another 9.75% DR debuff from Melt Armor.
Be well, people of CoH.
As the title says.
How much recharge would I need to run a chain of Nimble Slash-Blinding Feint-Attack Vitals?
Yes, I am aware that Nimble Slash is a subpar power for scrappers, I'm asking about it for my Invuln/Dual Blades tank. The automatic -20% resistance when the tier 1 lands is too nice to not put it in my chain. I also figured that adding it to the chain would reduce the recharge needed to run the chain, hope I'm correct on that.
In case you're wondering, I have an Achille's proc in Ablating Strike too, and yes, they DO stack with each other. Figured I'd mention that, since I don't recall seeing anyone post about a Dual Blades tank using the proc (since Dual Blades is the only tanker set that can slot it anywhere that I know of)
Also, since I have a couple spare slots, would Gaussian's Chance for Build Up work nicely in Blinding Feint? Or would I be better off putting it in a toggle? I ask because I should be hitting Blinding Feint at LEAST every ten seconds, so it should be a wash as far as where I'd get more benefit from it in.
Thanks to anyone that can answer these questions.
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.