Archon099

/everything he said

I also agree with what others said: The bonus xp, faster rate of killing, and improved odds of survival that come with teaming certainly act as an adequate incentive to me.

Yeah, the only cases for magnitude that I truly stand behind are in the event that they always happen, like some fire melee attacks. They always take place, so affecting the chance wouldn't work. You'd have to just make the duration of the DoT linger or the power of the DoT greater.

I will admit, Gauntlet's current effect has shown some purpose. I mean, if I have Snowstorm and Shiver and who knows what other recharge debuffs, Brawl/Mutagen/Apprentice Charm/etc. still grab that last runner when other moves are recharging still. Minimal damage, but they get that quick taunt. I just feel it's a small benefit to cling to when you could be soloing better or tanking better in general.

Fancy adequately tickled. *thumbs up*

Definitely. I get so annoyed when I exemp and find out that I took powers at dumb times when I respec'd, lol. We need two major options when respec'ing: Respec from lvl 1, or Reverse Respec. The reverse respec option could be to step back one level at a time, alternating slots and powers as necessary, until you get to the point you want, then add them back in the new order you want. This would keep your respec from screwing up your functionality when you exemp down to a low level.

I was expecting Primary/Secondary respecs too, but I kinda like this idea. The only possible hiccup I can see is if you wanted to get those other moves at different points in time (like picking your pool powers at a different level), you would have to move your other powers and thus need a full respec.

Something I've been annoyed with: Making a new character and deciding to change the idea partway through their design, only to find out that you forgot to change their origin after all that, and you have to delete and go back through. Like making a Tech Suit guy who was originally going to be a wizard, then you have a magic origin in a tech suit and think, "well now what?" I do like that you can fix that during character design, but after you finish if you forgot ONE thing, it's back to the drawing board (unless you save your character design every time you make one).

Would it be possible to include things like Origin in these Freeform Respecs?

I see your point, defenders have a lot of functionality that varies so much from one primary set to the next that there is no one particular bonus you could give them that would truly help them all equally, so they settled with an end discount. I personally think the end discount is lame for two reasons: it's only usable when teaming, not solo, and it's of greater benefit to some primary sets than others. For example, it makes Empathy insanely cheap (discount when teammate's HP is low, and no one heals when they are all at full health anyway) and makes Forcefielders expensive (you keep them from getting hurt much in the first place and don't often get much of a discount, especially if a healer of some sort is also on the team). I won't lie, it's always cheaper than NOT having it, lol, but still, something else would be better, but the key issue is... WHAT? What else is there for them. I think you pretty much covered all bases in your post.

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On that note, what about Guantlet? I keep hearing from people that it's broken, and I would really like some elaboration on that because when I hit someone, they turn and face me, end of story. Seems to be working to me. The problem is, with adequate Threat Value numbers, this would be duplicated in an already implemented game statistic. Just make the tank have more threat (which they did) and you don't need Gauntlet.

Gauntlet does nothing to help while soloing, only teaming. Blaster Defiance was changed for a balanced potential when solo and when teaming. Gauntlet could use some of this balancing.

My suggestion is to make tankers have a bar much like Brute Fury, but instead of a damage buff, a bonus to secondary effects of your attacks (either duration or chance, that would depend). Gauntlet, by definition, (besides being armored gloves, which I doubt is the definition used here) is an assault from all directions. To "run the gauntlet" is to make a dash through an angry mob or something of the like. It's to face attacks from all directions and press on anyway. With my suggestion for Gauntlet, when the tank keeps getting struck and keeps fighting back, he builds up a Gauntlet bonus that lets his War Mace stun more, or his Battle Axe knock things over more, or his Fiery Melee to catch them on fire for even more damage. That way a tank would be able to put in that last ditch effort as the fight wears on, without making him overpowered or making his inherent power useless when solo.

I think what he meant is "Damage over time" vs. "Instant full damage effect" (or straight damage) on a DPS class. DPS means damage per second, but is often used to just refer to a class or power set that is meant to hurt stuff. Every single class in the game deals some sort of DPS, but as you know we don't call them DPS classes. It's not their "job", so to speak.

To say that damage over time is worse is just plain wrong. Anyone who has played WoW will attest to the insane damage of Warlocks. The thing is, they are given methods of survivability that blasters don't often get. That being said, for a damage over time build to be more effective than a straight damage build, there would need to be survival methods, which is why I would rather suggest a DoT attack set to scrappers. With the ability to last during that melting HP would be of great benefit to the scrapper. Also, when DoTs are used in games, they are always better in overall damage than burst/instant damage attacks BECAUSE you have to wait for them.

FYI, fire is not a DoT build. It is as strong as all the other blast sets on the first hit, then has a chance of more damage over time. To call Fire Blast a DoT set just because it has a chance of DoTs is like calling War Mace a controller set because it has a chance of stun.

As much as I'd love for a blaster with this kind of set, I can't see a way they could survive quite as long as would be necessary for the set to show it's true power. For a scrapper/brute/tanker, maybe I could see it working. Possibly even a defender, granted they'd probably need a team. On that note, teaming would make this power set incredibly powerful, potentially too much so. Why would the blaster need the survival ability of a Warlock when he has a team's support? Even so, it can't "only" be balanced for teams, which is why I suggest a melee class getting something like this.

That being said, I would love to see some actual powers listed for a set like this. Perhaps a corrosive acid blast set or a bleeding damage set for melee that deals little to no initial damage but leeches HP for an extended duration. More elaboration might get the ball rolling.

I never said the stealth power was broken. If you read all of my posts and made any sense in your assumptions about me and had any grasp on reality, you would have noticed that I said that I LIKE stealth powers, I have no issue with how the melee stealth powers work, I have no arguments against people wanting stealth powers on tanks or brutes or scrappers, and I even went as far as proposing an idea that would give you YOUR choice while not forcing others who don't share your opinion to adhere to it.

The thread is about Problem and or Strange Powers. I felt that in a set with such a sweeping theme as Trick Arrows, having one power that stands out so completely different is strange or potentially a problem. I again didn't say it was broken, but simply off-key when viewed from a sweeping perspective of the entire power set. No one is claiming any of the powers mentioned in this thread are broken. It's not called "Broken Powers", it's called "Problem/Strange Powers".

I love Back Alley Brawler, and he happens to be one of my favorite devs. In the thread I was talking about, he said all the ways that, by the previous game mechanics, it would require a complete overhaul of the power system. He went into a lot of detail on what would have to be done to make power customization work. He didn't say it couldn't be done, but Statesman had in the past. BAB instead outlined what it would entail, and ultimately they felt that because it was such a hot issue and was so unanimously requested, it was worth their time and effort. He hadn't lied and I never accused him of such.

I didn't say a scrapper should be more stealthy than a blaster, but that a melee class like scrappers, brutes, or tankers have obviously be given stealth that does not suppress, so by current game mechanics and current dev intentions, it would be ok for their version of the pool power Stealth to have this benefit. It's not about self-buffs, so defenders/controllers wouldn't get the stealth suppression modifier; it's a matter of what the devs have decided is acceptable for melee classes (in that they already incorporated it into DA: CoD and EA: EC), and a matter you have firmly defended thus far. I find it odd that you think I'm not on your side here simply because I happen to want everyone happy and not just you. My idea is to give melee classes what they ALREADY have but not limit them to that option if they don't want it.

Exactly, it was an oversight that was fixed. Power proliferation caused a lot of oversight issues, and they have had to make changes to a few power sets to accommodate it, most of which were armor sets. Stalker: Dark Armor, Tanker/Scrapper: Electric Armor, heck, even Brute: Energy Aura had an improvement made to it, and it wasn't even a part of proliferation. Obviously they felt it wasn't performing well enough, and not because of an epic conserve power move like Electric Armor.

I'm not suggesting to take away it's stealth. Have you even read my ideas or do you just inherently decide to trash them? Reread it: I am suggesting to MOVE the functionality of that particular survivability tool to a spot where it better belongs so that a tool for a second functionality could be included. YOU would STILL get your stealth move. It would still do the same thing if my suggestion were carried out... You would instead have a SECOND survival method put into the set in place of the one that was moved, should you decide you want it, just like stealth is in the pools, should you decide you want it. For the last time, I never said to take anything away. In fact, you could even choose BOTH! God forbid. Learn to not just read, but comprehend. This has quite literally been 4 or 5 posts now in which you don't understand at all what I said in the previous posts. Keep your cake, just let the rest of us have our pie if we don't want your cake.

Ok, then let's take Willpower's set-it-and-forget-it style and go with Regeneration. Just like DA has to watch health and enemies and monitor the situation for changes to know when to pop off its heal, Regen has to do the same, but without the resistances or defenses of the other set. Regen, despite that downside, survives better. Back in the old days of the 5 difficulty settings instead of the new difficulty system, Regen were notorious for soloing Unyielding to Invincible, whereas Dark Armor was lucky to get to Rugged without dying at least once per mission. Regardless of skill, DA has a notable frailty compared to the other sets. Also, way to contradict yourself: "a WP tank outlasts a DA. Big woop" followed shortly by "a DA tank has comparable survivability". Which is it? Can't be both, and most people agree WP, Regen, SR, etc. mop the floor with DA. Even you agreed. Or did you? You changed your mind two sentences later. I didn't say DA can't tank, just that they are not as capable of it.

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I have a suggestion. Since this is a thread to post ideas for potential improvements to powers that either don't make much sense or don't serve as much of a purpose as they should for their intended classes, you start posting some ideas, and I'll keep posting my ideas, and this whole dissecting of posts in an attempt to discredit or stain the opinions of others can stop. I am not shooting down your ideas on what powers are inappropriate (yet I haven't really seen a post from you about that yet), and all I have asked for is the same level of respect. Call me altruistic, but I like to consider "respect" to be a default position. In every event that I had made a mistake, I had even thanked you for the correction, and immediately modified my suggestion to better mesh with it.

No more post dissecting and nitpicking. Either come up with some real ideas or leave. If you want to nitpick, go be a republican senator; they seem to be all over that these days.

Oh, absolutely. Repulsion moves are horribly inefficient.

I can't seem to find the post, but someone had mentioned Sonic Resonance: Sonic Repulsion. As if Repulse/Repel/Repulsion Field weren't limited in cost vs. benefit to begin with, making a version that you can't even use unless it's anchored to a teammate is just ridiculous, lol.

Force Bubble doesn't cost as much and pushes enemies back more reliably, but I still feel it suffers from a lot of the issues these moves do. Great for cramming into corners, but as a final power... meh, I could take it or leave it. I consider pretty much every other lvl 32 defender primary move to be better. That's not to say my Plant/FF controller won't get it someday, just that if they offered a tier 9 move that was on par with other defender final moves, I'd probably take it in a heartbeat, even if it meant leaving Force Bubble out. (Personally I've suggested replacing it with a click buff that creates a shield around a teammate that must be destroyed before they can take damage, or essentially a +HP move castable on teammates, but that's just me, lol.)

I did check it. It means exactly what I said it meant. Thank you for the numbers that prove my point. Tankers get a 5% bonus, whereas Scrappers get a 3.75% bonus, and Blasters get a 3.5% bonus (all base values, no enhancing). My point was that in the end different classes get different benefits based on what the devs wanted them to get in order to maintain balance.... *points above at your numbers* Are you not also seeing the damage dealers having less defenses from pool powers than the Tanker/Defender/Controller values? I'm looking at YOUR statistics here. The devs chose to make it so that DPS classes didn't benefit as much from armor. You have statistical proof of it right up there in your numbers. Yes the power has a base effect that disregards class, but that effect is ALTERED depending on what class chooses it, and you think it's weird that I'm asking for another alteration on a different pool power in order to make more people satisfied? You're acting like if gay marriage was legalized it would mean you would have to marry a man, lol. This is giving both sides what they want without taking anything away from either. Your personal opinion isn't the ONLY opinion on melee stealth, and shouldn't be the ONLY way to go.

Granted there is a special enhancement you can use to make up for that shortcoming, I would have to agree with you. If the stealth effect was dropped from that move and knockback protection was put in its place, I'd be thrilled too, lol. Save me the slot to make a different power better.

You act like AT modifiers are arbitrary numbers that were secretly underground deep in the core of the game and existed there forever, affecting random powers you choose.

Why do scrappers have a different modifier on their pool armor options than tanks and even defenders? Because the devs deliberately chose to make these numbers different. If you look way back through patch notes, it wasn't until well after the games release that these multipliers were incorporated, or at least made to affect pool powers. When the different archetypes were given their inherent abilities, the pool powers didn't work with all of them. This had to be altered to allow for it. I remember the patch notes when they changed it so that scrappers using melee pool powers got their crit bonus. I also remember when they changed pool attacks so that the scrapper melee damage multiplier was used instead of the base multiplier they began with because as they specifically said in those patch notes: we want to make scrappers better with pool attacks because they are a melee damage dealing class, and it would make more sense for them to be masters of melee pool attacks as well.

Those multipliers aren't just some arbitrary hidden tome on what is and ever will be. They are numbers imposed by the devs to balance classes in the event that they have access to the same type of moves. Defenders aren't just better at Leadership and Medicine than other classes just because the numbers say so; they are better because the devs gave them numbers to make them better. They pick and choose which classes get which numbers, and they have changed those numbers on several occasions. Look at the stalker changes a little while back (increased overall damage scale and HP scale at the same time as the change to their inherent power to make them crit more).

This is not faulty logic, misunderstood mechanics, or wrong numbers; it is fact. Just because my opinion on melee stealth is not your opinion doesn't make it an invalid one. I am merely asking that when querying the pool power's stats, in the event of a melee class, they could add/remove some qualities from the pool power Stealth. I'm a programmer myself and know ways of doing this in programs and have done it on several occasions. The easiest way would be to make the initial qualities/effects of Stealth contain whatever all the classes will get, then upon accessing the power, class is taken into account (as it is now) applying multipliers and adding non-suppression and an end cost reducing multiplier for melee classes. Not impossible, just different. It's easier than most of their recent changes have been.

I'm not claiming I know exactly how they implemented pool powers, but honestly, neither do you. You know that when you click certain buttons, certain things happen, but you don't have to know all the details of what's happening in the background. It's called abstraction (or information hiding) in software design. You don't know how your character's name is stored. Is it a null-terminated array of unicode characters? Is it a unicode character linked list? Is it an instance of a string class? Frankly, it doesn't matter as long as when you type chat or someone clicks on your character, the right name shows up. They could completely revamp how something is done and you will never know as long as it still implements the same way to the end user. They kept telling us that as the game was currently implemented, they could NOT change power animation to be customizable (I read Back Alley Brawler's thread on why they couldn't do it). They told us that for quite some time, even back when Statesman was still here. But because so many people wanted it they put it in. It took a while and they had to completely redesign how powers worked, but does your radiation blast act any different now that they did that? There was a huge overhaul to the old power animation system, but nothing ultimately changed in our use of that system. For all you know, every time you click a power, a leprechaun dances over and paints the power before it's animated. User's don't need to know the "how". If implementation feels exactly the same to them, they may never know the change even took place. I can guarantee that there have been changes to the game that you weren't told in patch notes simply because you would never even know they took place anyway.

LOL, yeah, I take it for concept or when I am out of ideas. My kin/dark defender Deity of Chaos took it for both reasons. I was going to skip it until I planned out his build and realized I had an extra spot or two for powers and had no clue what to get. He used Siphon Speed, Inertial Reduction, and only needed the Pool power Hover to get around, so he didn't delve into pools much. He also already had a way to heal his health and endurance, so I didn't need Stamina and Health. Eventually I just had no other good options, so I use it in PvP (sometimes, rarely helps much, but it's there).

The key to your DA scrapper being so durable is his primary set Broadsword. Parry/Divine Avalanche are incredible moves that can turn a scrapper into a tank. Roughly 15% unslotted defense that can stack up to 3 times and is the strength of Gambler's Cut. My Katana/SR scrapper was able to solo the Strigga Warriors mission with Heracles in (as an Elite Boss) with +1 and +2 lvl spawns, and he only got hit once... by Heracles right before he died, lol.

When each application of Parry/Divine Avalanche is roughly like a stacking SR toggle to melee and lethal (so that means all close range, and a lot of long range, namely bullets), any armor set will become incredible. I have a BS/WP scrapper, and he can attest to being able to fully replace and outshine tankers without needing Taunt. He's hit by attacks so rarely that his regen rate from WP will send him up a good 10% health before he ever gets hit again. Alpha strikes are the only thing he doesn't handle better than a tank, but once those Parry's stack up, he's better. As Dark Armor, your Dark Regeneration move helps you recover from alpha strikes better than WP does, but I'm pretty satisfied with his current armor, lol.

My main beef with Dark Armor's survivability is when you don't have Parry/Divine Avalanche, you don't hold up quite as long as other armors. For example: Spine/DA vs. Spine/Regen or Spine/WP. I'm not saying the overall set sucks, just that it could use that tiny bit of love that Energy Aura/Electric Armor got recently with their heal effects added in. DA already has heals, but if it did even a small portion of +HP with that, it would help solidify it to be comparable.

That's why I suggested upgrading the melee class versions of Concealment: Stealth to be on par with Energy Cloak. I'm saying they should have the exact same option they do now, but their personal opinions and choices shouldn't affect others who want to tank. That way you won't have to pick Weave to rebalance your defense again. As for the taunt aura, at least you'd have the option. Did you get mad when villains were finally given Epic Pools just because "aw darn, now I have to respec out some of my moves because I have NEW ones to choose from!" Of course not, it's a benefit to have more options. That's what customization is all about. This game centers around the concept.

My point was that WP outlasts a DA in survivability, and even though dark has a different style to offer, when they are being offered to a tank, they should both give comparable (albeit different) methods of doing just that.

Also Energy Aura was given AoE +HP heal in with their end draining move, whereas Electric Armor was given a similar effect in its conserve power move with a +Regen effect as well. The patch notes said they did this to balance the durability of those two sets with other sets who already had +HP heals. I personally felt my EA characters were more durable than my DA ones, and think even the smallest amount of this would not overdo it and make Dark just as comparable. It is a balance issue, since they have done it in the past to help power sets that didn't perform quite as well even if intended to perform differently. They didn't have to change the style in order to make the sets better, and that's all I'm proposing. Let old habits and styles remain, just give a more tank-specific approach as well.

More happy people means more money for the company.

I see your point and understand how threat rating works. The only problem is that the scenario you pose only works if you are the only melee class, or if the others have non-suppressing stealth as well. Stalkers, Brutes, Scrappers, Tanks, Mastermind Pets, any melee class without that non-suppressing stealth bonus will be visible at full range to that second spawn. This the what I find issue with when a tank stealths. Are the other melee people supposed to just watch and stand next to the blasters useless, or are they supposed to go in and fight too, at which point they will receive the alpha strike of spawn 2. If your stealth DID suppress though, you'd get that second spawn, but at least your teammates wouldn't. That's a tank's job, stealth or not. I'm not saying a good tank couldn't do some damage control and mop up the situation, but without stealth there would have been no situation in the first place.

Again, not saying there isn't a place for it, just that it causes more problems than benefits to a tank (not necessarily tankER).