Archon099

When I heard a Time power set was being added, defender primary was my first thought, since when I hear "time", I think slow, fast, stop, rewind, alter. Those all sound like buffs and debuffs, except for "stop", but several defender primaries get a single-target hold or stun of some kind, so it still fit.

Regardless, it got me thinking about a controller set to match it, lol. I do like your idea, but some of the moves need some tweaking. Controller AoE mez powers deal little to no damage, so your AoE hold and stun having moderate damage would be out-of-sync with the rest of the control sets, making it way more powerful. The cone fear + damage made sense to me because Mind Control already has something similar. Plus, with all that damage while still having lots of solid control and AoE control powers, multiple pets seemed to be the last nail in the "overpowered" nameplate, heh. If the set keeps so many hard-control effects, you need to pick between the damage or the multiple pets. It would get out of hand too easily if the set got both.

When I was reading the description of your confuse power, the first thing that came to mind was "Targeted AoE -acc -perception" like Fire Control/Smoke and Trick Arrows/Flash Arrow. I saw it breaking his perception of reality around him, being unable to tell one dimension from the dozens of others he was seeing. To me, that would simply prevent picking a target rather than making him shoot the wrong ones. This would also give the set a little more soft control, like the slow down bubble that I find absolutely genius and epic, lol. In between the big AoE mez powers, having another soft control move to mess the enemies up during the cooldown would make the set flow a little better I think. Less waiting and more doing. The Fear, slow bubble, and a -acc -perception move would really help fill that role.

That being said, I think it's a great set idea, and I would love to see them build it to go along with the time manipulation set. Even kinetics would be fun with this. Then you'd have both time AND the laws of physics on your side, lol.

I submitted an Earth Defense power set (Defender primary, Controller/Corruptor/MM secondary) to a new power thread once. Let me see if I can remember the suggestions:

1) Essence of Earth: Location AoE heal over time (you cause the earth to empower any allies who stand on the location you cast this ability, healing them over time as long as they remain on the ground. It would last maybe 10 seconds and have a similar cooldown when enhanced (so you could have one, maybe a second up at a time, but it's your only real heal, and it has no burst, so the healing would be supplementary to the defenses offered in the other powers). Think of it sort of like a Rain of Fire, but providing heals instead (not as rapidly, more like every half second or so).

2) Pyroclastic Armor: You create a shield of rock and magma around a teammate, providing defense to smashing and lethal, and resistance to fire (and some to cold). Basically, I merged brimstone and rock armor (leaving the armors all separate would completely eat up all the power options for the set and it would get boring easily).

3) Rockstorm: You create a whirling storm of rocks around a teammate (toggle). These rocks deal minor DoT and can knock enemies off their feet (knockdown). I considered making this power seismic waves pulsing from the target ally, but it wouldn't make much sense if they left the ground, so I went with rocks orbiting them.

4) Obsidian Crystals: Armor cast on a teammate, offering defense against Psionic, Energy, and Neg. Energy damage (obsidian armor and crystal armor combined).

5) Terra-Embrace: An Earth's Embrace power castable on teammates.

6) Sandstorm: You cause a sandstorm at the target location, damaging enemy accuracy, perception, and speed, while ripping at their defenses.

7) Seismic Pulse: (Toggle) You send out periodic pulses of seismic waves to detect the positioning of enemies and teammates. You use this to locate invisible enemies nearby, increasing perception of yourself and any allies in range. The rhythmic pulses also help the team coordinate and focus, providing protection to many status effects (didn't decide which, but that'll be up to the devs when balancing and stuff).

8) Might of Antaeus: You empower a teammate with the might of the Greek god Antaeus, who drew his power from the earth. You increase their damage by 30% and accuracy by 15%. If they are touching the ground, this bonus is increased to 50% and 25% respectively and the additional effect of increased recovery rate is applied. (I figured this name meshes with the underlying Greek mythology in the game, while staying true to the power set and concept). This lasts for about 30 seconds, and recharges in about 4.

9) Diamond Armor: You coat a teammate in diamond, increasing resistance and defense to all damage for a short time. This is similar to Moment of Glory castable only on teammates, and with a weaker buff, since you already provide other armors long-term. It would last about 10 seconds and recharge in about 3.

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I have a feeling the set would give varied utility, buffs, debuffs, steady healing, and short-burst defensive and offensive buffs. It doesn't focus on one area, but can pretty much make any teammate more effective in one way or another.

Good to know. And yet it gives me a possible solution to the problem: why do a hit check? If the attack needs a hit check to damage you anyway, then make it always reflect and always hit the return damage. Make return damage weaker, either proportional or flat amounts, but that way if they miss, no return damage, if they hit, they get hurt a little. This would require reflection to be a guaranteed occurrence with only partial return damage though.

I understand they probably were asking about damage reflection on the scale of a full reversal of the damage onto someone else and not hurting the original target. If that's the case, then yes, it might have to be a hit chance type thing both ways (not to mention if two people have return damage sets and bounce a bullet back and forth for a while, lol). A possible solution though would be to make the chance of reflection much like defense. If they hit, it rolls the reflection chance. If the reflect is successful, it does guaranteed to hit return damage. That way you only have one check more than normal. It's still doubling the calculations, but at least it isn't too bad...

And that gave me yet another idea: make damage reflection a temporary click protection move like Moment of Glory. Five seconds of guaranteed reflection of damage. The only hit check would be the first made by the enemy. If they hit, guaranteed reflect back. Make it short-lived and guaranteed and you solve all the problems it would pose.

Just some ideas.

Yeah, the only name ideas I could come up with on the fly for the power set were "Oration" and "Politics", LOL, but "Charisma" might sum it up better.

This is what I was talking about, a quick, low (or zero) damage PBAoE knockback. Just for breathing room.

Yeah, Transference is the end draining one. Blasters have in their manipulation sets so far a +recovery/+regen move (Psychic Manip), a -End Cost power (Energy Manip), and 2 endurance heal AoEs (Fire/Electric Manip). They are getting Dark Manipulation, which is expected (no confirmation yet) to include Dark Consumption. So a blaster having a way to maintain endurance isn't out of the question. So giving Kinetic Manipulation a single-target, user-only endurance heal would be perfectly acceptable. I would love a set like this, lol.

The problem I see with the Power Siphon port from kinetic melee is that it only affects Kinetic Melee powers (for example, a kinetic melee scrapper who has Fighting:Boxing will not gain a buff from using Boxing). I could see a retooled version of it that possibly boosts the inherent bonus the blaster gets from his other attacks through Defiance maybe. Since blasters already have this +damage on hit thing, it just seems redundant though.

I think a typical Siphon Power move like the kinetics version but only for yourself might keep a steady stream of damage going rather than the sudden burst, making the set feel more original. I don't think the buff would have to be weaker than the defender version since it only benefits you, and it would need to be better than normal Defiance buffs to make up for time spent not attacking when you activate it. 30% damage on it wouldn't really be unreasonable, making it sorta like the "Follow Up" of blaster sets. Just add in a small ToHit buff and you're all set.

Also, another idea for the +damage move of the set: why not just make a passive that increases your Defiance damage buff amount from each attack by a flat % (like adding 5% to all of them)? You would climb to higher numbers faster and maintain consistently stronger damage. Not sure how easy that would be to program though. Nothing to activate, but you'd have some "warming up" to do first. Call it Defiant Siphon or something.

As for a small radius force bubble, I think a single click PBAoE pulse that pushes enemies away would be neat. Not a toggle like Repel, or a slow push like force bubble, but a fast cooldown, fast activation click move that gives you some breathing room. It couldn't be an starting power or it would outshine Power Thrust, but maybe 4-6 tier range.

^ THIS! lol

With a set like Earth Blast, you'd be easily able to have two sets of animation, one more like Propel and the other like Hurl Boulder. Just make the animation times the same and make them costume editor options like the Martial Arts punch/kick alternatives. That way you could be an earth mage or just a strong guy, lol

Well, the thing with Dom Assault sets is that they combine Blast sets with Manip/Melee Sets to offer a range of single-target ranged and melee attacks, usually getting an AoE somewhere. Much like giving blasters psychic blast and psychic manipulation, the melee components went to the manip set, and the ranged components went to the blast set, including some that weren't a part of the defender version.

Basically, my idea is to expand the ranged moves from that set to cover a full blast set, and move the melee and some control abilities to a manipulation set, and you'd have a cool blaster idea.

I suggested one too, but I tried to give it more variety in the blasts than just rocks, like a sand blasting move that would tear at enemy defenses, the stalagmites attack with earth assault where you punch the ground and spikes come out under them, the rock shooting out of the ground idea you had is great as well (I think I had a location AoE similar to that, but it hit on the rise and the drop after). I also had a PBAoE toggle in the manipulation set that had a chance of knockdown for nearby enemies, causing seismic waves to pulse from you.

Sure it takes more work than a normal proliferation, but every other elemental control set seems to have a matching blast, melee, and manip set. :-/ Just a shame Earth doesn't.

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OH! On that note, an Earth-based defender primary set would be great too, but that's an idea for the "new powers" thread, lol. Put some rock armors in it, an Earth's Embrace style power to cast on teammates, a sandstorm PBAoE toggle, an AoE heal over time for anyone on the ground near a target location, so many possibilities, lol

YES!

This is a really great idea and definitely needs made. They have powers that would be great for it on so many NPCs that the set practically designs itself. Flash bangs, sleep gas, tear gas, all of that already exists on half the PPD cops. The set could also be called Non-Lethal Takedown (to avoid the confusion of naming it crowd control, after a common term for MMO mez mechanics). And the dog pets idea is brilliant!

I also have been asking for a more scientific defender set, similar to poisons, but not so "spitting goo" and more "mixing beakers and tossing vials". Obviously a vanishing potion would be great, a vial you toss at someone's feet to cause them to placate for a few seconds, getting bonus damage on their next attack and ending the stealth. You could also include a super elixir to grant a teammate a huge durability or damage buff. A location AoE heal over time spell where you toss a vial of medicine on the ground and it shatters, causing the vapor to rise up and heal anyone in the area as long as they stay there.

I hear they are working on a "street fighting" blaster secondary to fill in this role with martial arts/super strength style moves. Hopefully they add a dagger set too for a blaster secondary. I want my medieval archer to draw a short sword when people get too close, lol Single and Dual Blade ports over to blaster secondaries would be great as well. Natural origin isn't represented well enough in blaster power sets (or controller/defender, which is why I recently submitted an "Oration" defender primary set idea to the new powers thread, lol).

Just out of curiosity, because I have wondered this without ever testing it: If a brute gains fury based on attacking and being attacked, if you or your enemy miss, do you still get fury? That being said, if you don't get fury for the enemy missing, why include +defense and -acc sets like Dark Melee and Super Reflexes/Energy Aura?

In the event that fury does build normally on attack "attempts" rather than successes, I do see -recharge being an issue, but the -speed component could still be viable. Plus, with the massive number of AoEs involved in spines, Brutes could be easily overpowered with the set, so I could see the -recharge staying if for no other reason than to balance with all the damage they will be throwing around regardless of their fury. Trust me, having a Spines/Dark scrapper, I know the kind of massive aggro and number of hits you can take as Spines despite the -recharge effect, lol. I think reduced recharge from the venom would prevent the set from overpowering the existing brute attack sets.

As for other people's complaints about the idea of tanks using spines, I still see no issue with it. A PBAoE toggle damage move is nice, but not game-changing in terms of damage. Obviously the devs have no problem with a tank having multiple taunt aura toggles, considering Ice Armor I know for a fact has two by itself, plus a click PBAoE with a taunt effect that's on cooldown. Also, the devs have no issue with allowing two damaging toggle auras on a character, even a damage dealer (Spines/Dark scrapper). That combination is immensely powerful, don't get me wrong, but you forget that damage toggles are more than twice as draining as the average armor toggle. So sure, a Spines/Fiery Aura tank would have lots of AoE damage, but he'd pay for it fast with endurance that could otherwise be spent on actual click attack powers that deal more.

And in terms of the complaint that says tanks shouldn't be allowed to have much damage, they were originally the first and only class with Super Strength, which had the best damage buff click in the game: Rage. Shield Defense came along and now tanks could have their own mini-fulcrum-shift... as a toggle... not to mention Shield Charge. Try playing an electric melee/shield defense tank and tell me he isn't powerful, lol, or SS/Shield for that matter. Those builds' damage outputs are absolutely incredible, and you aren't a damage class. Some scrapper builds would be hard-pressed to keep up with your damage output. Spines isn't overpowered in comparison really.

This seemed to point out the main problem with such a set: "scrapper or blaster". The set lends itself to too many different types of heroes... but not to fear! There is a way to include power sets that don't apply to only one class: pool powers! A cable set with yanks, ranged attacks, and crowd control using chains and cables would be great. One could yank the enemy to you, another could pull you to them, one could tie/grapple/chain them up, stuff like that.

If you ask me, pools need to be expanded on much like the epic pools now have more than 4 moves. For example, they should add another attack move to each transport set, like "Warp Slam" for teleport, which teleports you in for a quick melee attack then warps you back to your spot. Speed could have "Blurred Strike" which blasts you past the target a set distance, damaging them on the way, or as a location cast like Shield charge, but hurting in a straight line toward the destination instead of an AoE at the end. Flight could have a move that drags the enemy up into the air and slams them down to the ground with you holding them the whole way. Leadership could have a click buff that offers something like attack rate or recovery for a little while. There's so much room for improvement with those sets, and room to add more sets that aren't represented like a Cable/Chain pool.

Well, water graphics scale with your graphics settings already. Why not water powers? Give it the non-ultra water ripple graphics for people who can't use ultra mode, and then people who do have water graphics turned up can see it in all its glory.

I have to agree. Delete and remake. Unless you want to keep those badges they have (and don't have the badges on any other characters), delete them and remake them. Save the costume first, then delete, then make a new one, then load the costume, and all is right in the world, lol.

I've had to delete characters who were level 20 something before, and I still have multiple lvl 50s, over 60 characters, and I'm not planning on changing my character's to such an extent. If I have a gravity/kin controller but I want to try gravity/thermal, guess what I do? I find a server with room and make a gravity/thermal. Don't even have to delete the old one.

If I make a character and a few levels later decide I don't like the powers or even just the origin, I remake him too. Losing an hour or so isn't too bad compared to asking the company to put in massive amounts of man-hours to accomplish a type of respec the game isn't designed for.

LOL! Sneaky sneaky

I don't see why you would limit what someone could keep after a respec. Once you put your enhancements in your character, they are there forever... until you respec. Then you get paid back a ton of money for the ones you didn't keep. They are already giving us a huge refund if we DON'T keep them... why would it be any different to keep a few more? Especially with the addition of invention origin enhancements. If I happen to have the +Stealth run enhancement, but I respec into Flight or Super Jumping, I have to get a whole new one, so what am I supposed to do with it? They obviously don't have a problem with us getting paid back for our old pre-respec enhancements, so would it be so bad to return that +Stealth IO to Wentworths and get paid back for the enhancement I no longer need? (Oh, on a side note, how much are you compensated for IOs when you don't keep them after a respec?)

I don't know, but the way I see it, if they already reward us for NOT keeping them, how is keeping them and THEN getting a reward (or perhaps no reward just giving it to a friend) such a bad thing? Limiting enhancements you can keep after a respec is like limiting the amount of dessert you can eat at a buffet. "You can eat all the food you want... except that table of desserts... I know we let you eat all the meat and vegetables and drink all the drinks you want, but absolutely not desserts... Enjoy!"

You know, it never really occurred to me until you mentioned it, but yeah! Why not? We get more of every other storage space imaginable except the one that can pose the most problems. For example, having to make dozens of shopping excursions to get what we need because we fill up, not to mention the problem with crafted IOs; you can't sell them to vendors, only the auction houses, and if your auction space is full, and you fill up on IOs while waiting for those to sell, tough luck. You're stuck with them until you auction them all off or delete them.

I'm gonna call you on that suggestion and raise you five "Hell yeah!"s.

He brings up a good point regarding the speed. One thing that people learned in other MMOs like WoW is that in order to make use of crits more effectively, you want to be attacking more. The more chances you have to crit, the more total crits you will get, and the more total damage you will deal. This is why in WoW, a dual-wielding Warrior will get more total damage generally than a Warrior with a slow, strong two-handed weapon (if using the same build and gear and comparable weapon DPS).

If a scrapper is using hasten, not only will he get more damage from attacking more, but he will get more damage from the fact that he has more crit opportunities, and therefore more crits overall. Giving scrappers a set with a select few slow but hard hitting moves simply means they will be attacking less often and probably not getting as many critical hits as someone with a faster set like claws. Granted, you could still get a freakin' insane crit with Energy Transfer, again, that can be rebalanced like the stalker version so that a crit simply means no damage to yourself. You may still crit hard with Total Focus, but really, for an attack that slow that recharges once in a blue moon, you'll probably not get so many crits with it quite so often.

Not only that, but a lot of other scrapper tier 8-9 attacks have other things going for them. Some have a 15% crit chance (Eagle's Claw), some have DoTs after (Greater Fire Sword/Ripper/Throw Spines), one immobilizes and deals more overall damage (Midnight Grasp), a few are cones (Eviscerate/Ripper/Throw Spines/Shockwave), etc. Eagle's Claw for example will crit a lot more and be used a lot more frequently, meaning a nice steady stream of good damage, rather than a short burst of super-heavy damage. That in and of itself seems fairly balanced to me. At least balanced enough that they didn't feel it would be overpowered to give to Brutes and Stalkers and Tanks as well.

One final note, Scrapper damage scale being 1.125 compared to Stalkers at 1.0, that means Scrappers are only 12.5% stronger. That's only 1% more than the Leadership: Assault damage bonus for a mastermind/dominator. If you feel 12.5% damage added to a stalker would make a set overpowered, then I can only imagine your outrage at the Leadership Pool or Villain Epic ATs, hehe. If defenders with Fulcrum Shift can get Total Focus in their epic pools and Stalkers can have Leadership: Assault stack with their Total Focus/Energy Transfer, then I don't really think the devs would have issue with proliferating the set.

That being said, I'm going to have to agree that it should be ported over to Scrappers.

/signed

My guess is the only reason they haven't yet is because they simply haven't gotten to it yet.

If I was designing from scratch, I'd have made inherents better and designed the classes around them from the start. Gauntlet and Vigilance suck and are un-inspired/bland, Containment was a good call, new Defiance is a joke compared to the other inherent powers (i can replace and out-perform Defiance with one medium Red insp and one Break Free, but need 3-4 of the best Reds to surpass Fury), and scrapper critical damage inherent is basically a much worse version of the stalker inherent. Scraps get 5-10% crit chance, but stalkers get 10-34% PLUS stealth crits guaranteed PLUS 50% crit chance on held/sleeping enemies (unless they got rid of that last part, I'll have to check again).

Personally, I'd revamp inherents for heroes to be on par with villains. I'd give blasters a damage debuff to their primary target (when using AoEs it would have to only apply the debuff to the target selected for the hit) that increases as the enemy's HP decrease, so instead of a crit chance like Scourge gets, it would be a half damage chance (or perhaps just a debuff) to the ENEMY's powers. This would be beneficial teaming or solo if you ask me, would help make them more survivable, and not give a non-armor class mez protection.

I'd give defenders the idea I suggested in an earlier post so that they can get a bit more damage, a bit more power in their primaries, but just in small fluid bursts.

I'd give Tankers an increasing chance, magnitude, or duration to their secondary effects of their attack powers (depending on the secondary effect of the power) as they take damage. That way a fire tank gets more powerful DoTs the longer he tanks; axe tanks would knock people over more often, mace tanks would stun more often, dual blades would get stronger combos, etc. This would help solo and teaming (unlike the solo-specific purpose of the current Gauntlet), plus it would make more sense for a power named Gauntlet to make them better at "running the gauntlet". The name implies they are going to be exposed to tons of punishment but still need to pull through.

I'd give Scrappers a better crit chance, or make their crit chance increase as their HP gets lower, since they are meant to be sturdier than blasters, so a better version of old defiance would be nice. Make the bonus start the moment they lose any health, rather than after half health like old defiance did, that way it doesn't encourage low health, just helps you in the event that the battle starts going downhill. Even half a percent per 1% HP lost. That would make for a total of 49% bonus crit chance if you were at 1 HP, but who could manage to linger there so long? Perhaps a tad smaller bonus, but something. Scrappers can handle the beating, but unlike blasters are intended to get at least a little bit of a beating, even on a team. Why not help them out a little there in addition to their 5% base?

Containment... I can't find anything wrong with it really. Guaranteed on single target moves, 50% chance on AoEs, and their damage is lame to begin with, so like brutes, it rewards them for doing their job by letting them actually get some kills in.

As for controllers having defender primaries as secondaries, I like it. That's like being mad that defenders have the same secondary as blaster primaries. Ever see a kinetics defender FS+nuke+catch a breath+transference? It will put a blaster aim+buildup+nuke to shame. Not to mention the blaster has no heals or recharge/speed buff. Granted I'm going on the basis that they are soloing and not buffed or helped by anyone but themselves in this scenario. The few controllers who can output good damage are outdone in damage by the defender equivalents, and especially by blasters. Fire/Kin can do some great damage, but it has no nuke, weaker moves, and fewer offensive powers in general, than a kin defender. I'll admit that controllers played well can replace Defenders, but my controller played well can replace a tanker, but it doesn't mean that there aren't other support classes that can't pull rank and kick ***. There are tanks that can scrap, scrappers that can tank, defenders that can control, controllers that can defend... this is normal to have a little overlap. It keeps the game dynamic so that not everyone is a carbon copy with a different color suit.

As for free-form power selection, that's what led to the first round of nerfing in Champions Online, from what I've heard. If you break out of the individual classes with generally planned roles, you are left with a few overpowered overused builds taking over the game. You'd have the Regen/Fire Blast tankers and SR/Empathy healers... it would be chaos. :-/

Personally, I've never felt the need for the pure Tank-n-spank team concept. Not every team needs a Main Tank + Healer + Damage Dealers to be successful. One of the strongest, fastest, most efficient teams I have ever been on was 3 Controllers, 1 Defender, and 4 Blasters. We had no tank, no healer, and needed no real plan. We would debuff/control to such an extent that the enemies were useless; there's no need to have a person to take the hits when the enemies aren't even attacking, lol. Villains see this even more. A team with a few buff or debuff corruptors or maybe MMs would give even non-tanking brutes tanker status, and would make everyone durable enough to practically just "group solo" the mission... take off killing and not even need to say a word or plan a fight, lol. I'm not saying planning is bad, just that a skilled team can just flow through missions like a tsunami with little effort. Even without the typical Tanker + Healer + DPS structure. It works, you just need a good balance of support. That's kinda where defenders come in anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I want to see defenders improved, but I feel controllers have a similar but less specific purpose. Defenders need a better inherent to pull them out from the pack to make them more acceptable to recruit to a team as well as more useful solo.