Arbegla

I also have a demon/thermal, but you apparently didn't read that. I have zero problems playing any MM combination, be it bot/traps, or demon/thermal, or merc/pain, or heck even ninja/poison (more on that later)

Zombies recharge just the same as every other MM set, and their unique power actually allows you to create another pet from a dead zombie, which depending on the pet you 'resurrect' it could be just as power as the living version.

We've already been over the AI. Its not limited to masterminds, and if you can't deal with it, then maybe MMs just aren't for you. Plenty of people have not just dealt with the screwy AI, but also thrived off it, and managed to do things that other ATs can't do.

Ok, so you told your zombies to attack an AV, and they all died right away. Well, was the AV debuffed? Did the brute have aggro? Did you actually use your secondary?

I'm guessing you didn't, as your zombies managed to pull aggro off the AV, and proceed to be one shotted. Let me tell you something. ANY PET WILL DIE TO AN AV THAT IS NOT DEBUFFED. Heck, my stone/rads Animate Stone gets 2 shotted all the time and animated stone have double the resistances that MM pets have. You either learn to deal with it, or you adjust your play style to match.

And by adjusting your playstyle i mean actually using your secondary, allow more durable characters to hold aggro so that your squishy pets can actually deal damage, and not just sending them to their doom, which is exactly what you described yourself doing.

Pets have a higher threat modifier then MMs do, heck, they have just as high a threat modifier that brutes and tankers have (4.0) meaning they are designed to be renewable meat shields. If your pets are taking damage, that means your allies aren't, and your team as a whole is better because of it. You mentioned a corruptor on the team, what if he took all that damage your pets did. Yea, your pets would be alive, but i'm pretty sure that corruptor has higher debuff numbers, and better buffs then you do, so he's probably much more valuable then your pets are. Stop being selfish and learn to adapt to the situation at hand.

That is still my favorite back of deathly hollows.

I just want to point that, that in the stalkers vs scrapper debates, in a team environment, stalkers have been shown to pull ahead on overall damage, due to increase crit rates. While the scrapper has higher base damage, the stalker has nearly triple the crit chance, pushing them much higher in the grand scheme of things.

Thats also assuming the stalker can survive the same things the scrapper can, and sometimes that not possible.

Actually, if you chain it right, you can get all those powers to chain back and hit the same target its already affected.

I've personally seen Chain induction hit the same target twice (it went full circle to do it though, and that last hit did like 1/6 the damage of the first hit) And i'm pretty sure jolting chains has hit the same target twice, the problem being you'll never see it due to the target already being KB'ed.

While i would love to have the one shot code put in on the pets, i can see a problem with it.

Bodyguard mode. An AoE hits (say, nova fist) and deals massive damage to the pets and the masterminds. currently, the pets die, due to combined damage from the AoE and bodyguard mode. Even with the one shot cold, bodyguard mode would then proceed to kill them again, due to the pets doing at 1 HP and then soaking damage from the mastermind.

I'm entitled to my opinion, just as much as you, so kindly prove your math or get out. Seriously, people have come in here with prove showing your wrong, and your only responds is 'Well, not with that primary!'

Masterminds have been out since issue 6, and if you have been beta like you say, then its been much longer then 2 years. Good to know your concept of time is as skewed as your concept of this AT.

If you actually paid attention to that video, you'll see that it was made during the i12 beta, and those 2 ATs were able to accomplish things that people, at that point in time, said was impossible to do. Masterminds are more then their primary, and if you refuse to see that, then there really is no hope for you. Secondaries are designed to help out the primary, and once you talk about the AT, you have to talk about everything available to it, primary, secondary, and even epic/patron power sets. If you don't want to, then by all means, stop.

You pets already benefit from Supremacy, giving them +25% damage, and +10% tohit, just being near you. They also benefit from any pet IOs auras you slot, which can give them up to 20% resistance and 10% defense.
Your boss pet is already your level, they actually con a level higher (yellow) then you, as they are considered a 'boss' pet. Your LT pets are 1 level lower then you, yet con white as they are LT pets, and your minion pets are 2 levels lower then you, but con blue due to them being minion level pets.

Mastermind pets already have their own different Con/level system, and they are balanced around the purple patch. Especially when you consider Supremacy.
There is already a system in place that have the pets prefer melee or range. The problem is with the AI of the entire pet system, which isn't just limited to mastermind pets. This is about the only fix i can get behind, due to it being a game wide problem.
You may want to look this over a little bit, as the range is already a 60ft sphere. Its limited by line of sight, but 150-200ft range of 25% damage and 10% tohit, plus the ability to enable bodyguard mode at that range would be beyond overpowered. No other AT as access to that kind of built in power.
Pets already benefit from heal sets, tohit debuff sets, etc. Take a look over here and here which clearly shows that you can slot healing IO sets into demons, and tohit debuff IO sets into the lich.

No other AT has the abilities that an MM has. No other AT as such a powerful inherent. +25% damage and +10% tohit to each of their pets that are within range is extremely powerful, how would allowing set bonuses help out any? Should pets be able to softcap via set bonuses? What about run speed? or +rech? or even Debt protection? The Invention system was designed to affect the players, not the mobs, and for all intents and purposes, the Mastermind Pets are mobs. They deal with different tables then players do, and follow different rules. If you give them access to set bonuses as well, then they don't follow the same rules mobs do, and you have to rework the entire system to make up for it.
So, if i did the same with a mercs or ninjas would it change your mind? Noone has said that those primaries don't need work, its just that most of the fixes for those primaries just mean fixing the AI. Once that is done, just about all the other problems will be resolved.

To be fair, FF offers more pure defense then /traps does, and /dark and /storm offers similar defenses from +def, and -tohit values. So its not the most survivable pet combo ever. But thanx for playing.

Thing is, why should your pets work like another player? Why can't you move them yourself? They are YOUR pets? Unless you tell your pets to stay inside a burn patch, they will move. Mine do, and i don't touch stay, or goto at all. Bots, demons, heck even mercs will get out of burn patches. What hurts is bodyguard mode compounding the damage, and spreading it around much more quickly. Its not the burn patch themselves.
Blasters protection shields get suppressed when they are mez'ed, but a mastermind (assuming they are in BG mode) still maintain their protection. No other AT gets to keep their main form of protection while under the affects of mez.

OK, lets see here:
http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...bie.Resistance
Yep, zombies get protection to sleep, terrorize, and some stun protection, same for death knights, and the lich, as well as all the robots. Lets work on the living primaries.

http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...nin.Resistance
Looks like ninjas get protection to confuse, and taunt

http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...dic.Resistance
Soldiers get protection to confuse and placate, and the commando gets protection to fear

http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...oss.Resistance
Looks like thugs don't have any inherent mez protection, except for the bruiser, who has fear, placate, and confuse protection. Granted, thugs provide leadership buffs, which stack on themselves, and leadership from the mastermind, allowing for layered buffs.

http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/power...nce.Resistance
And to round it out, demons get protection to placate, confuse and stun, with the prince getting some sleep protection as well.

Now, lets look at the secondaries.

/traps offers FFG, which is hold/stun/immobilize protection.

/FF offers dispersion bubble, which does the same thing.

/Pain, /poison and /thermal both offer a clear mind clone that covers all the main mez, plus some of the other ones as well.

/storm offers protection to stun, as well as confuse

Only /dark and /TA offers zero status protection (/dark offers some resistance to fear) to either the MM or their pets. Again, nice try and thanx for playing.

Again, your comparing masterminds to blasters, when the ATs aren't are all close to each other. Can a blaster select /pain domination, or even /trick arrow as a secondary? No? Then you need to stop comparing them to masterminds. You have 6 different pets, and multiple ways to play them out, just because you haven't figured out how to control the pets seperately and maintain a balance between 'protection' and 'aggression' doesn't mean it isn't already possible. To help you out on that course, i recommend this guide on mastermind binds.
That is an AI problem with every single pet in the game, its not just limited to masterminds. Its something that is known issue, and hopefully it will be resolved (hopefully) soon.

I'll give you the AI issues, but as i've already pointed out, all but 2 of the MM secondaries offer some form of status protection, and I've never had any problems getting my pets out of patches of fire, or anything else for that matter. It takes some getting used to, but for the most part, outside of running into melee for really no reason, the AI isn't all that bad.

So again, why do MMs need a buff? OH, because you can't play them correctly and aren't aware of the things they can do. Got it. Can I get a buff too? on MY MMs? please?

Its fine. For the record, i think auto-executing Healing aura deserves a /kick unless its in a situation where its the only way to execute said power (i/e, lag areas, like mothership raids, and dog piling Marauder)

Forting 1 person would just replace 1 attack, but keeping an entire team Forted, is 6 or more, plus throwing CM, and AB and RAs around.

And, its not quite base. At base, Defenders do about (.65 defender ranged damage scale vs 1.125 blaster ranged damage scale = .57 damage of a blaster at range, and .55 defender melee damage scale vs 1.00 blaster melee damage scale = .55 damage of a blaster) so on average, defenders do about 55% the damage of a blaster on a full team (so no benefit from vigilance.

Now, blasters also have a higher damage cap then defenders, so when you factor in buffs, blasters will do much higher then just 45%. Depending on slotting, and buffs on the team, i can see a defender doing less then 1/3 the damage of a blaster pretty easily.

That is only true if the defender is doing more then 31.25% of the damage of the blaster. If they aren't, then the fortitude buff is providing more overall damage then the defenders blasts would.

Your misreading. I never said i NEVER use my attacks, just that they are low priority. The green machine (which i know of) works because they sustain the buffs as well as damage. They buff each other, then streamroll, and keep the buffs up as they go. Without said buffs, they wouldn't be half as impressive as they are.

Thats what i do. I buff first, blast later. Never said to not use your attacks, just that buffs should take priority over them, as the buffs will contribute more then your blasts will.

I stand corrected, my emp's attacks are as follows:

Mental blast: 79.73
TK Blast: 130.75
Subdue: 105.24
Will dom: 156.27

All four of them are slotted with 4 thunder strikes, which gives 88.07% dam, 68.90% acc, 42.40 end reduct, and 42.40 recharge. I can form a complete attack chain by just spamming those four powers over and over again.

Now, lets look at my weakest blaster, my DP/Dev:

Pistols: 141.37
Dual Wield: 186.6
Executioner's Shot: 299.7

All of those attacks are slotted exactly the same, with 6 thunder strikes, giving them 101.47% dam, 68.9% acc/rech/end reduction.

That's before counting Vigilance Or defiance. Which is more valuable? the Defender's damage numbers, or the blasters? This is also not counting fortitude, or any other buffs that blaster may get, that obviously my emp would not.

That's my point. Defender damage is so low, its really not going to make much of a different, especially when a blaster literally out damages the highest damaging attack a defender has, with its t2 blast that it can use while mez'ed.

Its not worth skimping out on my buffs to use my attacks when the AT next to me is dishing out double my damage in the same time frame. I might as well boost their damage more, and keep them alive, instead of trying to deal damage.

I don't know about you, but even when i buff i don't stay in the back. I have leadership going, which basically requires me to stay with the team, and while there isn't anything that requires constant casting of buffs, there are plenty of things that can get hairy when buffs drop, LGTF for a blaster for example. You use those aggressive auras like damage auras, hot feet, world of confusion when mez'ed, and as CM only lasts 90 seconds, if someone isn't keeping an eye on it, you can very easily lose your aggressive auras and thus a high source of your damage, or mitigation. Same can be said for a /rad debuffer. If they get mez'ed, the entire team starts getting hit more often, for more damage, and is dealing less damage to the enemies.

You are right that we each have the ability to play however we want, but the playstyle your mentioning isn't mine. I have a buff cycle, and i always wait until i see buffs flashing before renewing them (as they are about to expire) and i never refresh something that i just cast (unless its CM or a CM clone, as those don't last very long anyways) and even then i go in a cycle. Everyone that needs a CM gets 1, and if i have time, i'll go back around and tag everyone again, as by the time i'm done CM-ing an entire group of squishys, and first CM is flashing, especially when i use fortitude and AB.

My extra 50 points of damage isn't going to turn a tide, but my 25% def buff will. That's my point. I know that the best way i can contribute to the group isn't by spamming my attacks, its by making everyone else into demi gods and keeping the squishys from being squished. If i have time to use my attacks between buffing, then great, i'll use them. But if i don't, then i won't, as my buffs are far more valuable then my attacks are to the teams survival.

Pylons have about 20% resistance to everything, where some AVs don't have that much resistance to that many damage types. Could be whats messing up your numbers some..

The -res works, just not the DoT. the animation your seeing is the -res

What MM only problems? My bot/traps has zero issue doing things any other AT can do, and i can do quite a few things that most ATs can't do.

And buffing isn't participating and contributing? Keeping fortitude on 6 teammates, keeping CM on those that don't have built in mez protection, and ABing/RAing group isn't contributing?

I've ran plenty of times with and without an emp, and just like when i run with a FF or cold, i expect buffs first, damage second. If i wanted a damage character, i'd invite a blaster or dominator to the team. When i invite an emp (or really any buffing powerset) i expect buffs first.

Yes there is, leeching is rocking the aura, ignoring fort, RAs, ABs, etc.

Buffing is pretty much ignoring the heals (unless people take a damage spike, like nova fist, or a groups alpha) and throwing fort, RAs, ABs around like candy.

Which would you rather have? A emp that keeps buffs up all the time, keeps everyone above 80% hp (usually closer to 100%, so the one shot code kicks in and saves their life, 99.9% hits means you can be 1 shotted, especially with nova fist, or other high burst attacks) but rarely attacks, or an emp that attacks as much as the blasters but forgets to buff sometimes, letting fort drop, not hitting RAs very often, and really not paying much attention to the health bars?

And in those times i use my attacks :P they just aren't high priority. Sleep still knocks off taunt auras, damage auras, as well as toggle debuffs, and sometimes keeping those up are the only thing keeping the team from face planting, preemptive CM takes care of that. it also animates quick enough now, and lasts long enough that i can get a few psi blasts off before i have to land another buff.

Emp/psi is not a damage toon, and trying to play it like one (as in, attack > buffs) is not the best option, as there is no chance at all that your attacks will be able to pump out more damage then your buffs can provide (31.25% damage buff on fort for defenders, and unless the mob is highly resistant to the damage type of your damage dealers, there is no way at all your psi attack, even the AoEs, will be dishing out 31.25% higher damage of the damage dealers.)

I get what your saying, but there is a fine line between 'leeching' and 'buffing' and when i know my mental blast isn't going to do 1/3 the damage of that blasters fire blast, there is zero reason to use my attacks, especially when that blaster can be buffed to become a damage beast, and I'm still rocking my defender damage mods.

Eh, i don't really want to throw anymore inf into my psi/emp then i have to, so making a secondary build for her, when i feel i contribute enough already is enough for me.

Looking over her build, fortitude recharges in about 21-ish seconds, so its about stacked up to 6 times, and my fortitude will contribute a lot more damage then my single target attack chain will. I'll have to do more then 30% of a blaster/scrapper/brute DPS to have my buffs be more valuable then my attacks.

If something takes extra damage from psi, and my buff cycle has gaps (like i don't need to CM people, as the ITF really doesn't need it) then i'll attack, but on the LGTF where every single group has mez, or the iTrials, where 1 hold can literally be the death of any squishy, my buffs are just more valuable to me then my damage. (until Marauder hits unstoppable, then i laugh as i'm the only one doing noticeable damage)