I prefer follow-up. But as I mention below, it's been a long time, so it may be worth double checking the current numbers and information.
Placate does nothing for you, unless you expect fights to last long enough for build-up to recharge. Unless something has changed, placate's animation time and NW's bonus damage is such that just hitting the target again does just as much damage over time of the 2 attacks vs Placate and 1 attack. I'd have to double check all the math to be sure, but that's how it was long ago, and I've never rechecked or used placate since then. (Placate and Bonus Damage for NW was NOT the same as Placate and Bonus Damage for Stalkers)
You can easily reslot mind link to perma even with cast time, that's entirely your choice. Set bonuses or 4 Def/Rech IOs or 3 Def/Rech Hami.
With your recharge level you'll need Eviscerate. If you swap in Follow-up, you may be able to drop Eviscerate.
The second slot in TT:A only gains you 0.03 eps
The second slot in Pool:A only gains you 0.06 eps
You could swap in Kismet +tohit in CTD
I prefer Shatter Armor and (Cardiac or Ageless+Recovery) for the 1.2x Offensive Boost on hard targets. Musculature Core Paragon is only a 1.12x boost by comparison, but does apply to AoEs as well. Also, with the addition of shatter armor you absolutely don't need Eviscerate, unless you plan on Glad Proccing Eviscerate.
Edit: Since you can't have APP's, CP is out, that Means Cardiac or Ageless.
(With Accolades) It looks like you may not need Cardiac or Ageless. It's all about preferences, I don't know what your preference is for what I call burn-time. I find I like 120+ with 160 being comfortable and needing only the occasional blue. Pylon Soloers need closer to 300. Your burn time is about 75 seconds.
Edit: I always forget you can't get APP's, Especially when I'm looking at someone elses build and trying to modify it as little as possible.
-------
Revision 3 - Shatter Armor
Code:
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Doesnt shatter armor cause redraw? Wouldn't that hurt DPS a little bit? I was thinking between strike, swipe, lunge, and slash i'll have a pretty decent single target chain, with evis and spin being used for AoE..
I could swap out placate for hasten, and then definitely have perma mind link, and help out with my attack chain even more..
A note about the builds above: VEATs have no access to APP pools other than the Patron pools. So Body Mastery is out.
Shatter Armor will cause mace redraw, but if you open the fight with it to reduce resistance, you can go right into your claw attack chain and use the -res effectively.
yeah.. i didnt realize mids was bugged out, so i redid it here.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.93
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Night Widow Ceridwen: Level 50 Natural Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Night Widow Training
Secondary Power Set: Widow Teamwork
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Leaping
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Swipe -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(43), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 1: Combat Training: Defensive -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(5)
Level 2: Combat Training: Offensive -- Acc-I(A)
Level 4: Strike -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 6: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(7), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(7), RedFtn-Def(13), RedFtn-EndRdx(15)
Level 8: Build Up -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(9), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(9), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(11), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(11), GSFC-Build%(13)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(15), TtmC'tng-ResDam(17), TtmC'tng-EndRdx(19)
Level 12: Lunge -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(40), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Mako-Dam%(50)
Level 14: Spin -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(19), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(23), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Oblit-%Dam(34)
Level 16: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(17)
Level 18: Slash -- Hectmb-Dmg(A), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(48), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(50), Hectmb-Dam%(50)
Level 20: Mask Presence -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(21), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(21), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(23)
Level 22: Mental Training -- Run-I(A)
Level 24: Foresight -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(25), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(25), RedFtn-Def(29), RedFtn-EndRdx(46)
Level 26: Mind Link -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(27), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(27), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(29)
Level 28: Eviscerate -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(37), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), Sciroc-Dam%(39)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 32: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(33), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(33), RedFtn-Def(33), RedFtn-EndRdx(34)
Level 35: Tactical Training: Leadership -- AdjTgt-ToHit(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(36), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(36), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(36), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx(37)
Level 38: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(39)
Level 41: Tactical Training: Vengeance -- GftotA-Run+(A), GftotA-Def/Rchg(42)
Level 44: Smoke Grenade -- DampS-ToHitDeb/Rchg(A), DampS-ToHitDeb(45), DampS-ToHitDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(45), DampS-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(45)
Level 47: Elude -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(48), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 0: High Pain Threshold
Level 0: Invader
Level 0: Born In Battle
Level 0: Marshal
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Conditioning
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(5)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(3), P'Shift-EndMod(3)
------------
Let me know what you think...
Smoke is pretty useless.
Neither Hasten, Nor Eviscerate are required.
I do, however, prefer to have hasten.
Assuming:
- You prefer Build up over follow up, and you apparently really want Eviscerate. (I prefer follow up)
- You prefer to have Eviscerate. (I don't)
- You prefer to have Smoke for the 1.8 endurance bonus. (I'd rather have the extra 20 seconds recharge in Elude)
- Replacing the Recharge Bonus in TT:L with a Similar Bonus in Eviserate, while Sacrificing an AoE Bonus.
- Filling out and Proccing all Attacks. You're going to have to use them all, except maybe - Eviscerate. Making sure they are slotted and procced is important.
- You won't need kismet, nor need the slotting for to-hit in ML. TT:L and the base +tohit in ML with general slotting for 60acc and bonuses is enough to cap your to-hit vs +4 targets even when exemplared due to the Purple bonus. When not exemplared you'll be well above the to-hit cap.
- I would still build a little different, and slot ML differently with Exemplaring in mind. Steal 1 or 2 slots so you can up the recharge on ML, then you could Exemplar down to at least 30. Shuffle some things around and you could make that mid 20s without really losing any major performance.
- I also prefer to have Aid Self.
I'd go something more like this: Revision 3
Code:
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While smoke is pretty useless, i have uses for it on my dual pistol/device blaster, so i figure i can have uses for it on a night widow. Eviserate is used as another AOE (its either that, or the dart cone, and i like being in melee more then ranged)
I'm not too concerned about exemplaring, especially with the incarnate stuff not working below level 45. I play my characters on SOs until level 47, then IO them out, filling in the spots as they level up to 50.
I'll take a look over your build later tonight. I understand the follow-up vs build up arguements, and i could swap it out, and get another single target attack, but i'm pretty sure the 4 attacks i have now will work into a complete seemless attack chain.
Redraw does hurt dps. I'm really not a fan of any patron pool attacks for night widows at this juncture as a direct result of having tested that out. Shatter armor might work, because its debuff has a long duration, but you're trading 2 powers and an intrusive double-weapon draw to get it. Plus anything really worth using it on (ie, archvillains) will probably resist the debuff anyway (resistance resists -res innately). Musculature alpha's pretty much 'invisible' to your play, comparatively. Since my widow's my main, I've made the effort to get both a musculature and cardiac very-rare alpha, and now I'm looking at having the choice between at least a rare of ageless core, rebirth radial, and barrier core destiny buffs depending on the situation I'm in.
So far I've only been using barrier, and mainly in the incarnate trials themselves, but it's been extremely good to me. In more normal content I'd say rebirth is probably a better choice, while for pylon testing or 'pure dps' it'd be ageless + musculature all the way.
Follow up beats the pants off of build up. And then spanks it. And sends it to daddy for the belt after that. Buildup is a 20% tohit buff, 80% damage buff for widows. It lasts 10 seconds and will have a 20-25 second recharge time. Followup double-stacks to 20% tohit, 60% damage, permanently. You can also put the gaussian proc into follow-up and have the chance of it firing every time you use FU, which is more often than once every 10 seconds like you get in TT: Leadership, and unlike TT: Leadership in FU it will always fire while you're attacking and thus will benefit from it.
The best seamless, practical attack chain I've tested for widows is FU-Slash-Lunge-Strike-Swipe. Without any incarnate powers or external buffs, this was doing 222.5 DPS (6:45 kill time) in pylon testing for me while having a friend tank the pylon so I was just purely attacking (this was the same test session I just did to determine that using gloom actually would be bad...). I was running TT: assault and had +16% dam buffs from my IO build (total +31% damage, and then 60% from FU, and more from the occasional gaussian proc), and I used Recovery Serum to make end management a nonissue for the sake of the test (cardiac or ageless should cover that just fine too). Using a reactive very rare interface and musculature core paragon, I later managed to get the pylon down in 5 minutes flat with that chain.
I've been unable to make a 4-power attack chain with Slash that doesn't rely on unsustainably high +recharge buffing. I've been able to run FU-Slash-Lunge-Strike with Force of Nature or Adrenaline Boost buffing my recharge, but only briefly with an Ageless - when it's first fresh.
"Experience is the mother of good judgement. Bad judgement is the father of experience."
Well, after comparing it, i guess i'll go the FU route..
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.93
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Night Widow Ceridwen: Level 50 Natural Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Night Widow Training
Secondary Power Set: Widow Teamwork
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Leaping
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Swipe -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(43), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 1: Combat Training: Defensive -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(5)
Level 2: Combat Training: Offensive -- Acc-I(A)
Level 4: Strike -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 6: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(7), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(7), RedFtn-Def(13), RedFtn-EndRdx(15)
Level 8: Follow Up -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(9), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), GSFC-Build%(13)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(15), TtmC'tng-ResDam(17), TtmC'tng-EndRdx(19)
Level 12: Lunge -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(40), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Mako-Dam%(50)
Level 14: Spin -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(19), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(23), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Oblit-%Dam(34)
Level 16: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(17)
Level 18: Slash -- Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(48), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(50), Hectmb-Dam%(50)
Level 20: Mask Presence -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(21), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(21), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(23)
Level 22: Mental Training -- Run-I(A)
Level 24: Foresight -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(25), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(25), RedFtn-Def(29), RedFtn-EndRdx(46)
Level 26: Mind Link -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(27), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(27), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(29)
Level 28: Eviscerate -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(37), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(39), Sciroc-Dam%(39)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 32: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(33), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(33), RedFtn-Def(33), RedFtn-EndRdx(34)
Level 35: Tactical Training: Leadership -- AdjTgt-ToHit(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(36), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(36), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(36), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx(37)
Level 38: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(39)
Level 41: Tactical Training: Vengeance -- GftotA-Run+(A), GftotA-Def/Rchg(42)
Level 44: Smoke Grenade -- DampS-ToHitDeb/Rchg(A), DampS-ToHitDeb(45), DampS-ToHitDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(45), DampS-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(45)
Level 47: Elude -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(48), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 0: High Pain Threshold
Level 0: Invader
Level 0: Born In Battle
Level 0: Marshal
Level 50: Musculature Total Radial Revamp
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Conditioning
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(5)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(3), P'Shift-EndMod(3)
------------
This will allow me to run FU-slash-lunge-evis-strike when hasten is down, and fu-slash-lunge-strike-swipe when hasten is up, which should work out to be pretty nice.
I see a lot of things in your build I like, but also things I'd change.
First and foremost is that CT: Offensive is a waste, you've got TT: Leadership and followup. CT offensive is just throwing a power away for a widow compared to the effectiveness of tohit buffing.
Eviscerate is a cool power, and it's nice to have a second melee aoe for packed crowds to work with spin, but it's not a viable single target attack for us because of its slow animation. FU-lunge-strike-swipe when you can't FU-slash-lunge-strike-swipe. You can probably drop it without any trouble if there's anything else you want to have.
Smoke grenade is a questionable pick as well, IMO. You don't really need it for yourself (mask presence and a stealth proc grant you full invisibility) and the debuff is too minor to matter to a team. And at the higher end of performance teams demolish spawns or all have individual stealth capability, and don't need you to lay smokescreens for them.
Using your build as a guide for your budget, I came up with this:
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.93
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Natural Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Night Widow Training
Secondary Power Set: Widow Teamwork
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Leadership
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Swipe -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(3), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Mako-Dam%(42)
Level 1: Combat Training: Defensive -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 2: Strike -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(7), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Mako-Dam%(43)
Level 4: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-Def(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(37), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(37), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(39), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(15), RechRdx-I(17)
Level 8: Follow Up -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(9), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11), GSFC-Build%(13)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 12: Lunge -- Hectmb-Dam%(A), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(21), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(23), Mako-Dam%(45)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 16: Spin -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(17), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(19), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Oblit-%Dam(37)
Level 18: Slash -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(29), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(29), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 20: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 22: Foresight -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(33), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(33)
Level 24: Mind Link -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(25), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(25), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(27), RedFtn-Def(27)
Level 26: Mental Training -- Run-I(A)
Level 28: Tactical Training: Leadership -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(48), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(48), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(48), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(50)
Level 30: Mask Presence -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Poison Dart -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(34), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34)
Level 35: Dart Burst -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(36), Posi-Dam%(36), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46)
Level 38: Aid Other -- Heal-I(A)
Level 41: Aid Self -- IntRdx-I(A), Numna-Heal(42), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(42), Numna-Heal/Rchg(50), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 44: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Elude -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 50: Cardiac Core Boost
Level 0: Born In Battle
Level 0: High Pain Threshold
Level 0: Invader
Level 0: Marshal
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- ULeap-Stlth(A)
Level 1: Conditioning
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Heal(43), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(45), Numna-Heal(46), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(46)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(39), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(39), P'Shift-Acc/Rchg(40), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(40), P'Shift-End%(40)
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Code:
If money's not an object for you, here's a copy of the build I've been working on refining lately in order to polish my own widow's spec until it's shiny and reflective:| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1440;688;1376;HEX;| |78DA6593D973D25014C66F20886529D00DBAD07D618D65F4BDD3A955A9749B56EBF| |8821122A4ADC0049CEA9B7F835BDD66DC5A976775F49F727977C1C3F96E0B0E1998| |DFCD9773BF7CE72459BE7DD623C4DD39A1F42CECEAD56A76DED273C552B99ADD32F| |3E53DE78A5EBB65E9BBC22984986029BB69E966C92C15B415B350AC65FF17839B86| |7E73AF6CED685297A78174A9685846A9A61D2D5C6BE5F2AEB651318CBC87971943A| |F9083974F968DBC99334B86EFE852DEB0AA45B3D2BD583173DABC95AB99B9ECB25E| |AD19D69D10658BD3FF257582A3EE10370833C256008A0CD504B619D11DC6828BA0F| |02E217A699112AF3C522123A5619412270A4091E131199DDB8CD80E63918CEC3052| |ED9D6C34E902DC8C690F23E6658CD3481DB889CD11871FE007DE500A27E7A83B9CD| |7583A6900D719AE1C9047A60FB606CE518A0ED94E479016617148466ED98E3BCE55| |5D3146CF0C1061F4451909B4D347F9BCD2C88BB91C90914F1AF97E71B1FF37FCFE3| |086FF0275C6A4B037F09C7605E4AE00B2F6A18F211D403BC3682781D906E9F6DDD8| |25BA232CA55D78408D89F522D1680FE06764A820289F4010A30F61F4218C7E00A31| |FC0D3B948E5FDB2C3FE24DFE2024983D261F080BB387508BC05DE3152EF194B541E| |960E61247A41DD8E20B73AB2CF6FD8E863C6D813E029F08CF19ACAC765F9F847CE3| |0F109F80C7C6524BF30C23495293995A9499646488A4887C8204BD14B1C25BACE48| |6D0019C6798A1C9791E3635CDE450E9A943448AB54352BEF338BC686D4E3AF8B7E7| |488589B32DBA6A4DA94D36DCA993625A3B67C93761EF56A53AAAFA9C7DFA750F0B1| |74F845E36DE3CBDF28BC22772B78AE3F9A92AA2C298DC9C7D28CC465EE2E8991253| |1B2EFAD0E78F97E362587728F234DDF071E30661E028F807DC61CBDC229997A9D1C| |EA72CDC7568B70A5657DB565FD0F7EC4EAE9| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.93
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Natural Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Night Widow Training
Secondary Power Set: Widow Teamwork
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Leadership
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Swipe -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(3), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Mako-Dam%(42)
Level 1: Combat Training: Defensive -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 2: Strike -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(7), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Mako-Dam%(43)
Level 4: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-Def(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(34), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(37), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(37), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(15), RechRdx-I(19)
Level 8: Follow Up -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(9), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(9), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11), GSFC-Build%(13)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GA-3defTpProc(45)
Level 12: Lunge -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(21), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), Mako-Dam%(45)
Level 14: Fly -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
Level 16: Spin -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(17), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(17), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Oblit-%Dam(37)
Level 18: Slash -- Hectmb-Dam%(A), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(23), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(29), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(31), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(45)
Level 20: Poison Dart -- Apoc-Dmg(A), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(43), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(50), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 22: Foresight -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(33), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(33)
Level 24: Mind Link -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(25), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(25), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(27), RedFtn-Def(27)
Level 26: Mental Training -- Run-I(A)
Level 28: Tactical Training: Leadership -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(42), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(42), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(48), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(48)
Level 30: Aid Other -- HO:Golgi(A)
Level 32: Aid Self -- IntRdx-I(A), HO:Golgi(33), HO:Golgi(34)
Level 35: Dart Burst -- Ragnrk-Dmg(A), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(36), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(36), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(46)
Level 38: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 41: Elude -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 44: Mask Presence -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 47: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), EndRdx-I(48)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 0: Born In Battle
Level 0: High Pain Threshold
Level 0: Invader
Level 0: Marshal
Level 50: Cardiac Core Boost
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- ULeap-Stlth(A)
Level 1: Conditioning
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(34), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(43), Mrcl-Heal(46), Panac-Heal/+End(46)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(39), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(39), P'Shift-Acc/Rchg(40), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(40), P'Shift-End%(40)
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Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1434;681;1362;HEX;| |78DA6593595313511085EF24132259202181002186B0661D1240CB378A421090CD1| |2C5F2258EC9484662424D62A16FFE06D717ABDCC0E5C7B9BCBB604F9F2B8995A9A4| |BE9E736F9FE99EBEB3F9E8B24F88270B42092F55F546A3B868E9A54AADDE28EE99E| |5FA917B4B6F3EB4F4AA700B21C6592AEE5ABA59336BFBDA96B95F6916FF1723BB86| |FEE0A86E1D685297B7C1B55AC5B08C5A53FB177876EAF5AA76FDD030CA5E0E57AAB| |69F9FE34DA36C96CC9AD1CB771B865E36AC46C53C0C2D1F9A256DD12A35CD527153| |6F340DEBF1209596A6FF5B6A04D7A94BDC231484631FA8305413B8CF481D30963C0| |485B384E8576CE99D4F2A64A4C0A80B465D30F2C1A8074669182D93911346AAB387| |8D121EC68417F031A6FC8C317AA32E6C77B832F003FA800F54855B38B80AF71D96C| |EE9C05D86A7049451D317878D15AAA21BB64A77848298C8CE3AED9513F2F3CAAEBC| |F0EB331861F885E13700BF2CBAF252997E64097F948D8EC9A8571AF5FEE4A7067E0| |1BF19E7FF00A78C09C159AF292B28B382195E1998668C248114B2D28C2C5A7D4359| |2164A9A12CAFA4738C8206CC0079C69A0733B45F6A3F86391A06028C0DDA1091438| |A603A8398CE20A6338CE90C63805769FB903C1C4339AE6895A4A874881EF353539F| |814F8C9913E02323E6B6470087D82582EA1471D2E2D01CF128BB8ECAA584E47BEA7| |B4CF63D36CB4EE373C03C708191BBC8B842454DCA3A2713ECB84D52523E388957B1| |4E5246EECA400A52299A3C2E1AA419E4F7D14A5E6ECE431A51CF3E30FAD125D21D4| |ABE43297428731DCA7C87B2A1B67D964E6E72BB259DEEA8679FA85038A13B20EC83| |C6AB5FA95145695FFDDE5254659D826991B8C1EDA66F32726B2CE6127C58BF7518F| |C68292EE529D733F50C78CE987E01BC045E31AE79EC178BA2F6DAE25B6DF1EDB678| |81CE7A41C67F01483AEB0E| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
"Experience is the mother of good judgement. Bad judgement is the father of experience."
I'm slightly confused as to why CC : Maneuvers is seen as as must-take for the defense it gives to the entire team but Smoke Grenade (which is flagged as unresistable) is seen as questionable. It's basically granting the team 3/4s of the bonus of Maneuvers (and can be stacked on your team with Maneuvers and Mind Link)
Quote:
I'm actually not sure. I checked out smoke grenade for /Devices, and it doesn't say non-resistable, so it may actually be un-resistable -tohit. I just took it as a throw away power to get an extra 2% damage (from the set bonus) and to have another form of extra defense (-tohit affects the equation the same way +def does) plus, it i remember correctly, between smoke grenade and masked presences, i can sneak past things, and it'll make getting the weapon caches, and containment chambers in Lambda a lot easier (as the mobs won't even notice me beating up the caches)|
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
I'm slightly confused as to why CC : Maneuvers is seen as as must-take for the defense it gives to the entire team but Smoke Grenade (which is flagged as unresistable) is seen as questionable. It's basically granting the team 3/4s of the bonus of Maneuvers (and can be stacked on your team with Maneuvers and Mind Link)
|
I know evis as a pretty long animation time, but its DPA (damage per activation) is still higher then swipe, so even with the longer animation time it'll do more damage over time.
The only downer is that followup won't double stack on the entire attack chain if i'm right, it'll double stack up to the second lunge (So, FU-slash-lunge-evis-strike-fu-slash-lunge(first FU drops here)-evis-strike)
but thats without hasten, the hasten chain of FU-slash-lunge-strike-swipe should have perma-double stacked followup throughout, and that may make up the lower DPA of swipe.
Smoke grenade isn't always on passively, and in most teams actually using it is highly optional: a 3.75% to 5.5% -tohit on most spawns isn't that important and wouldn't matter to any of the teams I've been on lately. Especially because they're probably splitting up to take on 2-4 different spawns at once. That may or may hold true for everyone. But at the level of build I think we're talking here, it's optional to the point of 'maybe replacing it with assault to get a smidge more DPS will work better in practice.'
The -tohit is indeed tagged as unresistable ingame in the power description, which is interesting. I think I'll be checking that out on test to how it affects AVs, where that might matter. If unresistable also makes it ignore the purple patch, that could make it into a power I'd be more inclined to advocate taking as a valid option for incarnate trials. Adding some tohit and smoke to your arsenal on top of decent defenses would make 'incarnate softcapping' a little easier, and give you a tool that helps the squishies not get squished in the lambda temp power phase. I'm not going to assume any of this though... it's just something I'll spec a copy of my character into on test and check out with a power analyzer sometime soon.
As for eviscerate... its DPA is lower than swipe unless you assume it hits multiple targets. Base DPA in ingame numbers is 55.39 for eviscerate and 69.68 for swipe. Arcanatime numbers from Mids would be 54.74 for swipe and 53.31 for eviscerate. So swipe's significantly better if you take the ingame numbers, and just very slightly better if you take the out-of-game numbers. I'd say the tradeoff is end cost vs hitting multiple targets there. Your choice entirely. Personally I'd use swipe, it's rare for my widow to need to pull aoe duty on a team, and judgements are just going to make that rarer and rarer.
"Experience is the mother of good judgement. Bad judgement is the father of experience."
thats in game numbers. Look at the actual math here.
Eviserate does 133.72 damage, in 2.508 seconds, for a total of 53.31 DPA
Swipe does 57.83 damage, in 1.058 seconds, for a total of 54.66 DPA
Thats at base, now if you look at my build, and how i slotted things up.
Eviserate does 326.65 damage, in 2.508 seconds, for a total of 130.24 DPA
Swipe does 130.93 damage, in 1.058 seconds, for a total of 123.75 DPA
So for my slotting, eviserate is going to pull more damage then swipe, plus it has a chance to hit more then 1 thing, thus increasing its DPA even more.
I look at soloplay just as much as i look at team play, and while smoke grenade may not add much to a team, i don't feel my build is losing much to get it (as i really don't want the medicine power pool.. between the med-pack temp power, and inspirations, i don't need to waste a power pick on a heal) and it'll help me hit the incarnate softcap a little easier against certain mobs as i already have 62% melee (above the 59% incarnate softcap, smoke grenade makes it 67.907%) 51.4% range (smoke grenade adds 5.907% -tohit giving me 57.307%) and 50.8% AoE, (smoke grenade making that 56.707%)
Plus my build already has double stacked assault, double maneuvers, and widow tactics, with CT-O to help out with -tohit debuff (acc bonuses actually increase the 'floor' you can debuffed to, its kinda weird, but thats how it is) and to let me hit +4s a lot easier, which i see as being needed especially with the incarnate content throwing +4s at us every chance it gets.
I am aware of how accuracy works. However, IO builds give you a bunch of bonus accuracy as a side effect of slotting other useful bonuses, and slotting attacks with IO sets tends to put 30-60% accuracy into them to start with. That's the equivalent of 1-2 extra SO's of accuracy enhancement to all powers and is 3 to 6 times the effect of CT:O, just as a side effect of your build. That's without even counting your +tohit buffing. Plus, I haven't been hit with enough tohit debuffing in PVE to make a huge difference to my accuracy rate in ages. With 20% +tohit from stacked follow up, and another +20% from TT: Leadership and Mind Link, even without tohit debuff resistance it would take more than a fully-slotted radiation infection or darkest night to bring my +tohit down to 0. And then that just makes me "only as accurate as anyone who doesn't have my buffs."
I suppose if I end up standing in multiple hurricanes or chill of the nights at some point, and am also immobilized so I can't reposition myself, and I don't have yellow (or convertible-to-yellow) insps, and force of nature is down, and I don't have anyone else with tohit buffs on my team, my lack of CT:O for tohit debuff resistance might be a problem. 
I can't match your numbers for eviscerate, at least, not when using my builds. Swipe's always better for me, if slightly. It's probably a slotting difference, likely related to the fact that your build has Swipe 4-slotted with no damage procs, and Eviscerate is 5-slotted, with a damage proc. 6-slotting both, Swipe with Mako's Bite and Eviscerate with Obliteration, has swipe coming out slightly ahead, for me.
"Experience is the mother of good judgement. Bad judgement is the father of experience."
Eh, your also forgetting +def. +def scales a lot faster then -tohit does, especially on mobs with defense shields, or purple patch scaling (like +4s)
I actually didnt even know it gave -tohit resistance, but the fact it does is just a bonus. I realize its only adding about 14% acc (so about 0.14 acc bonus) but thats about worth 2 set bonuses, and its a freebie throw away power. I could easily drop that, and smoke grenade and get aid other/aid self, but like i said already i really don't have a use for them. There is so many different ways to heal yourself, that i really don't need a way that will just cause redraw and is interruptable.
I know i slotted my attacks differently, and i didn't load up on damage procs, which is something i may actually look into, especially with the musclature alpha boost adding so much pure damage to the mix, having the damage proc thrown in may work out better then not having it.
Looking over your build, it seems like you having lower defense values then mine does, though not by a whole lot, and your self heal (in aid self) should balance that out you also have slightly higher recharge, and you'll be burning less endurance then me, but only in the ballpark of .2EPS, while i can slot the musculature bonus, and have more raw damage then your build, while probably still maintaining about the same endurance usuage. Also, your AoE is limited to dart burst and spin, which while nice, eviserate does about double the damage dart burst does, for only .508 more second animation time. my build also has just more overall damage, between higher +dam from sets, and the musc alpha boost, i think my build will be able to out damage yours.
I do like this discussion though, and i'd love to hear what else you have to say, getting extra imput is very nice, and its getting my brain working in different ways
Quote:
I basically agree with all of this.|
Originally Posted by Flux_Vector
Redraw does hurt dps. I'm really not a fan of any patron pool attacks for night widows at this juncture as a direct result of having tested that out. Shatter armor might work, because its debuff has a long duration, but you're trading 2 powers and an intrusive double-weapon draw to get it. Plus anything really worth using it on (ie, archvillains) will probably resist the debuff anyway (resistance resists -res innately). Musculature alpha's pretty much 'invisible' to your play, comparatively. Since my widow's my main, I've made the effort to get both a musculature and cardiac very-rare alpha, and now I'm looking at having the choice between at least a rare of ageless core, rebirth radial, and barrier core destiny buffs depending on the situation I'm in.
So far I've only been using barrier, and mainly in the incarnate trials themselves, but it's been extremely good to me. In more normal content I'd say rebirth is probably a better choice, while for pylon testing or 'pure dps' it'd be ageless + musculature all the way. Follow up beats the pants off of build up. And then spanks it. And sends it to daddy for the belt after that. Buildup is a 20% tohit buff, 80% damage buff for widows. It lasts 10 seconds and will have a 20-25 second recharge time. Followup double-stacks to 20% tohit, 60% damage, permanently. You can also put the gaussian proc into follow-up and have the chance of it firing every time you use FU, which is more often than once every 10 seconds like you get in TT: Leadership, and unlike TT: Leadership in FU it will always fire while you're attacking and thus will benefit from it. The best seamless, practical attack chain I've tested for widows is FU-Slash-Lunge-Strike-Swipe. Without any incarnate powers or external buffs, this was doing 222.5 DPS (6:45 kill time) in pylon testing for me while having a friend tank the pylon so I was just purely attacking (this was the same test session I just did to determine that using gloom actually would be bad...). I was running TT: assault and had +16% dam buffs from my IO build (total +31% damage, and then 60% from FU, and more from the occasional gaussian proc), and I used Recovery Serum to make end management a nonissue for the sake of the test (cardiac or ageless should cover that just fine too). Using a reactive very rare interface and musculature core paragon, I later managed to get the pylon down in 5 minutes flat with that chain. I've been unable to make a 4-power attack chain with Slash that doesn't rely on unsustainably high +recharge buffing. I've been able to run FU-Slash-Lunge-Strike with Force of Nature or Adrenaline Boost buffing my recharge, but only briefly with an Ageless - when it's first fresh. |
Redraw was supposed to be fixed to not effect dps as much with most sets. However, my own testing also shows this does not appear to be the case for NW and Forts with Shatter Armor. You gain some, and you lose some simultaneously. Use sparringly. My attack chain is right at 5 seconds, so every 4'th chain I use Shatter Armor. This gives me a net gain.
Shatter armor is a (20% - redraw) damage boost, even when resisted. The resistance is porportional to the resistance. The sum result is you still do (20% more damage minus the redraw delay). I don't have a number for what (20% - redraw) equals, but I'd put it in the 15% range.
Musculature with Ageless is also a 15% to 20% damage boost. No reason to not do both as well as Shatter Armor. Then keep other Alpha/Destiny Options open as well. I'm working on Cardiac/Rebirth (Defensive) and Musculature/Ageless (Offensive). My jury is still out on Cardiac/Barrier. I already have Demonic, and while another 30 seconds is nice, Typically I think the lingering effect of +regen sways me in favor of Rebirth over Barrier.
I can't get a seamless 4 power chain, I always have a small gap.
Aid self will indeed completely flat-line your offense. Regardless, I prefer to be alive. Maybe I just get in over my head too often.
Eviscerate vs ... You understand it's one of your weaker attacks, even if it's 1 point higher than the competition. It also has a longer duration. That means your entire chain, as a whole is lower. It's only a benefit if you can consistently hit 2 or more targets. Proc it, use it in groups, but as a ST attack, use something else. If it's Eviscerate vs Dart Burst, I'd probably go with Eviscerate, but I'd have to look at both builds as a whole.
The whole chain approach is also why I'd slot all those attacks better. a couple of attacks under-slotted hurts the whole. I calculate whole chains, not individual powers. It's a pain, takes longer, but you get better end results.
My personal build is: Night Widow - Isabella - Melee - Rev 0a [i19]
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- I took Eviscerate, Shatter Armor, (Web Prereq).
- He Took Poison Dart, Dart Burst, Fly, and more purples.
- I like my Elude slotting better. Not that it matters, 2 recharge gets the job done. Mine is overkill. I should really find somewhere else to put some of those, or use a different set.
- I think my build will Exemplar better, if it matters, and that's really just opinion since I haven't checked the numbers on both. I know I built with Exemplaring in mind, even If I don't do it often. With a large chunk of his defense in the upper levels, I'd be concerned about exemplared defense.
Overall, I see differences in preferences and flavors. I wouldn't do it his way, he likely wouldn't do it mine. But both of us appear to be consternated by your method.
Thing is, even with my 4 slots, im meeting, or exceeding both builds, when using Musculature (as my endurance will be under control already, i won't have a need for cardiac) Now, both of the builds are running cardiac, and i think if they were to swap they would out damage mine, but im not sure they would be as endurance sustainable in the process..
I also have higher acc bonuses, which may or may not matter in the long run, depending on what your fighting, and i'm slightly resistant to tohit debuffs, so things like CoT ghosts won't hurt me as much.
My build also meets higher defense levels with masked presence suppressed, and smoke grenade (if it is indeed unresistable) will put me even higher.
I see a middle ground between Flux's build and Linea's build in mine, i have about the same damage, using the musculature alpha, with about the same endurance capabilities, and i have slightly higher recharge then Linea's. Now, shatter armor may help out Linea's DPS more, but i despise redraw with a passion, so I'm not sure if I'd like it very much. I don't have a self heal, which can be dangerous, but usually in situations where you'd need aid self, your taking so much incoming damage that you can't get it fire (at least all the times i've had it) so chances are your dead anyways. Inspirations should work just fine in that regard.
I calculate a 90 second Burn Time with your build above*. IE, you can fight 90 seconds non-stop before you bottom out. I aim for a minimum 120, and prefer more. That means you're not entirely self-sufficient. You still need rest, blues, recovery temps, external buffs, or ageless. In-game you may be fine, after all it's not hard to come by external buffs and temps. I've run characters with a 90 second burn time and been ok. Experience tells me, I prefer the 120, and despise 60. If you're happy with 90, it does give you the widest options for Alpha/Destiny Combinations. I see 90 and I'm somewhat anxious. (Before IOs, 90 was a really good number)
Optimal Musculature Radial Paragon Slotting would be for around 90% damage, with the rest bypassing ED.
Optimal Musculature Core Paragon Slotting would be for around 85% damage, with the rest bypassing ED.
Procs can be a significant boost to your damage output.
*I didn't calculate your exact build, That'd take me an hour, I used a similar build profile with your endurance recovery and usage numbers.
Just a quickie cause I'm spectating the incarnate rewards trainwreck in the dev corner and wanting to get ingame...
I use cardiac for easier sustainability. Higher DPS at a higher burn rate actually results in less damage per end bar. I judged that doing 10% more damage per second (which is about what I got out of using Musculature Core Paragon) wasn't worth literally halving my "time to empty" on end.
By going cardiac I get nearly double the damage output before I have to chomp blues, hit elude or FON, or so on. It's a tradeoff, but it's one I think favors cardiac in practical play. If things are dying super fast such that end isn't an issue, then a little more dps isn't an issue either. If they aren't, then end is an issue, and a little more dps isn't helping.
As for the defenses, I don't aim to incarnate softcap on my own. Anything about 45% is debuff padding in standard content and if I start cascading, I have elude for that. Because I've got aidself I can run with the Barrier destiny buff for extra defense and resistance, instead of probably wanting a rebirth radial for regeneration and a burst headl. So I get my incarnate-tier survivability from that and aidself.
"Experience is the mother of good judgement. Bad judgement is the father of experience."
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I think you may be over-valuing the marginal gain on endurance reduction, or possibly you've under-slotted your powers for end-reduction out of the gate. Most melee sets will give provide somewhere between 40 and 60% endurance reduction at level 50. Adding Cardiac Core Paragon will boost that figure by another 45%, which sounds great on paper. But the endurance reduction formula is:|
Originally Posted by Flux_Vector
I use cardiac for easier sustainability. Higher DPS at a higher burn rate actually results in less damage per end bar. I judged that doing 10% more damage per second (which is about what I got out of using Musculature Core Paragon) wasn't worth literally halving my "time to empty" on end.
By going cardiac I get nearly double the damage output before I have to chomp blues |
base / (1 + (reduction/100))
So for a power costing 20 endurance with 40% end reduction, you're saving 6.7 endurance per use from your endurance reduction slotting. If you increase your end reduction to 90%, your savings goes up to 9.2 end per use, for a marginal savings of 2.5. In other words, you got LESS benefit out of your additional 45% end reduction from cardiac than you did from the base 40% end reduction you'd see from normal set slotting.
If you're really having that much trouble running yourself out of endurance, I highly recommend going for Radial Musculature Paragon. It gives a 33% boost to recovery powers, including Stamina, and all VEATs have the conditioning inherent, that make those powers pay off more than other hero/villain types. And unlike the diminishing marginal returns of endurance reduction, marginal returns from endurance modification are linear.
I'm aware of the end reduction formula. However, Widow attacks have very high end costs and very fast animation times - they were rebalanced according to a different formula than other claws style attacks, and do not receive the claws 'bonus' of an end discount in their balance formula. This results in a very high end burn per second of continual nonstop attacking for even a well-slotted widow.
Adding the extra endurance reduction from cardiac shaves 2 end per cast off slash, 1.5 off lunge, 1.2 off followup, etc, in my build even though the attacks have 55 to 67% end reduction from slotting already. Since I'm using 5 attacks every ~6 seconds, and attacking about once every 1.2 seconds as an average guesstimate, even with 66% endred in your attacks, on the back of an envelope here it looks like using cardiac is saving me roughly a full 1.3 end per second.
By my calculations that moves me from emptying my end bar in 51 seconds to emptying it in 123 seconds.
"Experience is the mother of good judgement. Bad judgement is the father of experience."
I'll chime in here a bit.
First- CT Offensive is not worth the power pick. TT:Leadership combined with Follow up and the accuracy in your IO's will more than cover any accuracy issues you have. You can drop CT:O and pick up something else and I highly recommend doing so. It's a wonderful low level power essentially allowing you to slot for endurance reduction and damage exclusively in the low levels but once you get TT: leadership it's time to put it out to pasture.
Second, on the Evis discussion. I used evis for a long time. It does hit hard and when you can line it up right it hurts a good 5 or 6 mobs but at the end of the day you'll attack twice with 2 other powers in the time it takes you to complete a single evis attack. Once I dropped it from my attack chain my damage started to increase a great deal above what it was already. That's saying something! Now if you are taking it to have a second AoE power I'd prefer Psychic Scream. It's another long animation time yes but you have a really REALLY wide arc and good range on it. You'll be getting a lot of targets with it and it's psychic damage which is good for an almost totally lethal dmg AT. Still, when you get enough recharge spin is up almost constantly and well... Spin is just all sorts of awesome. It is enough all by itself to melt spawns.
Third, I think you took too many toggles. Your end usage even with Cardiac is going to be pretty rough. That is the Night Widows one real Achilles heel. I also get why you took those toggles and yes your defense numbers are impressive as a result. Still I truly believe you'd be better off chasing down the ranged defense numbers from set bonuses and mix in a few melee def set bonuses to get to the soft cap. My Widow sits about 65ish% ranged/melee/aoe defense stealthed and 57ish% in combat which is more than enough and I got there entirely with set bonuses.
Now there is one toggle that I DO recommend getting as it addresses a problem that NW's have which is survivability when something does get through your considerable defenses and that is Tough. 4 slots is plenty for tough and will add a great deal of survivability for when you do get hit. We're sort of glass cannons that can dodge and weave really well. Land a punch and we feel it however.
Fourth, I really think that your slots could be put to better use. Right now it looks like you are chasing every recharge bonus you can possibly get. That's fine and all but once you hit perma Mind Link it doesn't do a Widow as much good as other AT's. You'll be able to hit and run with an extremely devastating attack chain with a good bit less recharge than you have and you'll be able to slot more powers for things that they are lacking in. 6 slot attacks are so very worth it and again you'll be getting those all important defense bonuses from the sets allowing you to drop toggles and pick up other powers such as....
AID SELF!!! Again your defense is incredible as a Night Widow. But when you get hit you NEED something to keep yourself up. You ARE going to get hit and if you are facing something like Longbow or PPD Kheldians or even malta... anything that debuffs defense you are going to be hurting real quick. You need a heal even more than you need tough and green inspie's wont be enough. I cannot recommend aid self enough for your build. And hey, look at it this way - Even though I'd recommend slotting it with 2 interrupt io's you could go 5 slot Doctored wounds for a 5% recharge if you wanted to replace one you are losing somewhere else.
Lastly, it's been a long while since I wrote it but much of what is there is still true so I'd suggest taking a peruse through the guide in my Sig. I know you said money is no obstacle so you can take what I wrote there and go even further with it on slotting if you choose to.
Best of luck, and I sincerely hope that the above helps you get the most out of your experiences with your widow.
Death can be Beautiful. A Night Widow Guide on a budget
Counting combat jumping, my build runs 9 toggles, and spending 1.07EPS on them without using Cardiac.
For reference, the Flux's build runs 9 toggles and spends 1.01EPS on them but they use Cardiac, and Linea_Alba's build runs 8 toggles, and spends 1.00EPS on them, and they are also using the Cardiac alpha boost.
I've looked over Eviscerate, and i probably won't be using it in my single target chain, instead i'll be running FU-slash-swipe-lunge-strike-swipe with hasten off cooldown, and FU-slash-lunge-strike-swipe with hasten up, which will leave just a little bit of a gab on slash coming back around (like .4 - .6 seconds) which will help out on my endurance usage, especially with the +end proc. My build also runs slightly higher recovery numbers (mainly due to the musculature alpha boost i want to use) which should help out on my single target chain working out.
Eviscerate has a wider arc then Psychic Scream does, Psychic scream just has the range that eviscerate doesn't (Eviscerate is 7ft range, 90degree arc, Psychic scream is 60ft range, 30 degree arc) but eviscerate does quite abit more damage then psychic scream (about double base damage) so even though its lethal damage vs psi damage, eviscerate just does more damage up front, and i think psychic scream causes redraw of the claws. I'm not entirely sure, on that so i could be wrong.
I only have about 72.5% recharge, which is mainly through red fortunes, and LoTG +rech. I have 1 purple, which i figure is good enough, and i really didn't chase too many other +rech set bonuses. I have close to perma mind link without hasten, so hasten just makes sure it maintains the perma, so i'll never have downtime on it for very long.
While i do understand that CT-O is pretty useless for its +acc bonus, and resistance to -tohit debuff is what really sold me on it, especially when i've been in situations where my tohit has been floored (CoT ghosts come to mind, as do flash bang grenades from PPDs) and being able to resist that will be nice. Plus its a 1 slot power.
I understand defense pretty well, and i know that sooner or later it will fail, no matter how high of a defense i have, but with tough only giving 15% lethal/smash resistance base, and costing another .325EPS on its own (enhanced it'll do about 22% resistance, and cost about .2EPS) i just don't find it very worthwhile, especially when inspirations drop like candy.
Inspirations are also the reason why i feel i don't need aid self, as with all the AoE damage i'll be doing via spin and eviscerate they should drop often enough to keep me alive, and i was looking into getting the rebirth destiny with +regen, which will help out even more on keeping myself alive, and is a pretty decent middle ground on survival and damage (muscualuture alpha, rebirth destiny)
Plus, for things like PPD and malta i'll have smoke grenade, which will help them hit me less, even if they debuff my defenses (especially if the -tohit is unresistable like it says it is)
The problem I have with smoke grenade is that even slotted fully out it's only -5% to -6% to tohit. Even though it's unresistable, that value's tiny. An 87.5% resisted (AV debuff resistance level) darkest night or radiation infection is till -9-10%, ie, almost double. It'd help in av fights if you had more tohit debuffers to stack with, for the sake of your teammates, but it won't do a whole ton for you yourself, in my opinion and experience.
I guess YMMV. At the end of the day, that's the great thing about having a broad selection of powers and choices: you can pick what you want to use and skip what you don't.
As for my build, my build's meant to hit a balance on what I consider important - end use vs damage output vs defense. I like aid self a lot better than green insps on the whole, but it might not be for everyone. Any build I post I sort of post in the intent of showing ideas, not trying to convince people to adopt that exact build. But forums being what they are, I can see how it might come off as the opposite.
One thing I'll note though is that I find my musculature alpha's damage contribution is kind of eclipsed by my reactive interface proc. I don't see a need to run both, and that's why I built around cardiac and added pool assault to the build - it's basically 'half a musculature' while still coming out ahead on end expense, and it's still pretty close to musculature + reactive.
"Experience is the mother of good judgement. Bad judgement is the father of experience."
Hey guys, After playing with my incarnates a little, i decided to run my night widow around, and i fell back in love with her, so i decided to make a build, Here's what i was able to come up with. I went for high damage, almost pure melee, and enough AoE to make things melt (hopefully) Let me know what you think, and what i can improve. I know i'm at 6 9% acc bonuses, but i can't find a way to fix it, and maintain about the same recharge and defenses.
I wanted to try to get mind link perma without hasten, and according to mids, i'm pretty close, just have a gap for its cast time. Inf really isn't much of an issue, just none of the big 3 PvP IOs.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.93
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Night Widow Ceridwen: Level 50 Natural Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Night Widow Training
Secondary Power Set: Widow Teamwork
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Swipe -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(43), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 1: Combat Training: Defensive -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(5)
Level 2: Combat Training: Offensive -- Acc-I(A)
Level 4: Strike -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 6: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(7), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(7), RedFtn-Def(13), RedFtn-EndRdx(15)
Level 8: Build Up -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(9), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(9), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(11), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(11), GSFC-Build%(13)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(15), TtmC'tng-ResDam(17), TtmC'tng-EndRdx(19)
Level 12: Lunge -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(40), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Mako-Dam%(50)
Level 14: Spin -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(19), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(23), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Oblit-%Dam(34)
Level 16: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(17)
Level 18: Slash -- Hectmb-Dmg(A), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(48), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(50), Hectmb-Dam%(50)
Level 20: Mask Presence -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(21), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(21), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(23)
Level 22: Mental Training -- Run-I(A)
Level 24: Foresight -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(25), LkGmblr-Def(25), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(29)
Level 26: Mind Link -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(27), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(27), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(29)
Level 28: Eviscerate -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(37), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), Sciroc-Dam%(39)
Level 30: Placate -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 32: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(33), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(33), RedFtn-Def(33), RedFtn-EndRdx(34)
Level 35: Tactical Training: Leadership -- AdjTgt-ToHit(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(36), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(36), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(36), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx(37)
Level 38: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(39)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 44: Focused Accuracy -- AdjTgt-ToHit(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(45), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(45), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(45), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx(46)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(48), RgnTis-Regen+(48)
Level 49: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 0: High Pain Threshold
Level 0: Invader
Level 0: Born In Battle
Level 0: Marshal
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Conditioning
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(5)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(3), P'Shift-EndMod(3)
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