*peers through the dust and embers*

Nothing to see here. Move along. Don't mind the crime tape and chalk drawn body outlines. Move along. Move along. There we go....

I know, right? I hear there were nukes and bans and stuff, and I friggin' missed it? Are you KIDDING me? Oh well, at least I saw the part where I was called a cult leader. That made my day.

Put the knife down and let the virgins go!

I am SO getting a volcano.

and where's this freakin' comet you promised??? I don't see it!!!

But I haven't even finished sacrificing the goat yet!

You can sacrifice the goat, but I'm pretty keen on those virgins.

Why?


Virgins dont know nothin. Give me some experienced chicks.

I've gotta be honest, I stopped reading that thread once it derailed into a discussion about religion.


To be fair, I think Codewalker was the only one that actually answered him. Everyone else attempted to deflect the questions with "humourous" or belittling replies, or with (like, I think you did) "They don't".

I do accept that just because you take an active role in what goes on over at Titan, you're not immediately a governing member, nor are you directly responsible or answerable to every activity by every member, if someone asks (albeit it ad nauseum) what they feel to be a legitimate and direct question, why does it take 3 pages of hyperbole and insults for them to get a direct answer?

/this...but I'm willing to forgive him for that "turning into the Hulk" remark. Hall of Flame stuff right there...

I'll have the goat then.

What? I grew up on a farm. Herbivores is all I know.

Tightness. And it's just plain better to be the First Man in Unexplored Territory.

My particular lack of interest in the list of questions was due to a couple of things. #1. At least two others had answered it already. #2. Based on the poster's analysis of what TonyV said, I fully expected my answers to get twisted into an equally-distorted state.

Tony said more or less this, about a possible post Nov 30 sale: This is just a rumor. I'm not holding my breath, and I'm once again warning you, this is only a rumor. And that was criticized as irresponsible and exploitative. How many more times would he have had to say "This is just a rumor" before it was no longer considered an attempt to string people along?

Too late. It's dead. Or is that OK too?

You might want to clean them up first. They have to drink the goat blood. Otherwise the comet won't come.

*looks at the virgin goats*

...

You sure about what you sain?

I don't think that the bit I highlighted is true.
It gave us a place for all of our voices to be heard. At the time, we didn't know when the forums would be shut down or what was going on at all, really.
It gave this entire community a single place to move to and to know we had no matter what NCSoft did. It gave us a single place to collect and represent ourselves - every single aspect of the same community that exists here, should they so choose.
It was never, to my knowledge, about giving us a single voice.
Now, most people tend to flock that way. Not I and not many many people that are amongst us in both communities, but it is true that the majority of people basically fall into being led (oh, how the English language makes puns all by itself).

And it can be detrimental. I saw it being detrimental in a different way. While there were certainly other people besides Tony heading efforts to stir up support, publicize our concerns and reach out to NCSoft, most people only took action if Tony told them to (this is not a knock on Tony whatsoever! I'd even seen him trying to get people to understand this and move away from thinking like that). It just made things a bit slower, because until Tony pointed the way, a lot of people wouldn't go ahead with something that someone else had already put together (and it also hurt when people may not have gone ahead with starting something, because they didn't realize that... they can do it without waiting for "official" approval).

Anyway, my point is not to criticize anything to do with the SaveCoH movement (nothing is perfect and I believe much good was [and still is being] created by us all gathering under the banner that the Titan Network helped us to create and maintain). My point is to criticize those that continuously lump SaveCoH/Titan as this hive-minded clan.
It is no more so than any and every group that has existed.
We have a ton of individuals over there (just like here) with a bunch of different opinions, ideas and ways of doing things and I imagine it will stay that way (and maybe even increase once the game goes down).
It's not supposed to be anything besides what we have here... except that we're all there to take actual efforts in bending and shaping reality into what we'd prefer, no matter the opposing force's powers to bend and shape it to their will.
That's tough stuff... and that's why the incessant negativity is so annoying... it's debilitating, honestly. When you're trying to actually, you know, do things... all of the why bother? Give it up! Not gonna happen! is just a complete waste of time and energy. And that is the only thing that has ever been universally dismissed under the SaveCoH banner.
Anything else is fair game for discussion (within reason, of course, haha).
And that ties into another aspect of what you've said here...
Some people talk as though their ideas were not respected and there's no room for them there... If that is the case at all... it was more a matter of the majority of people disagreed with that "dismissed" argument.
That minority can't dominate a majority with their views and opinions.

I have no idea if people see me as a member of SaveCoH, a leader in it or some fringe outsider or whatever! I honestly have no clue. I don't really have any strong ties with anyone on either "sides".
I know where my heart and mind lies and I stick to being me.
And if something goes down that I don't like, I let it be known.
And if I have ideas, I share 'em.
I don't need any credit and I don't care about any criticisms.
I recognize that it'll contribute to the whole in whatever way it organically comes about.


This is the part that I've seen repeated and 1) I honestly don't know what tactical shifts took place that they're referring to and 2) don't know that we'd all agree what was wrong or right.

I didn't see any tactical shifts, really.
I saw a pretty reasonable gameplan suggested in the beginning. And I'd say it went pretty well.
We acted as respectful as a large online game community can be.
We reached out, we demonstrated and our efforts and demeanor were recognized in the gaming community/media.

However, NCSoft remained silent.
That's cool... Things continued...
People criticized the SaveCoH movement as being too polite and friendly and nothing would ever get done that way.
When things were lining up to get worse for what we wanted, Tony made the move to release personal emails of NCsoft top execs...
Other people criticized this as being too aggressive and unfriendly.

That actually got a response from NCSoft. Seemed like the right move and as good of results as we could realistically hope for under the circumstances.

People continued brainstorming different ideas for now and the possible futures.
People kept up the heat, mostly with polite public displays of love for the developers and the game and the community.

A minority of vocal naysayers and all that continued to criticize.

We got NCSoft's "final" response.
Blah blah blah... here we are.

You and I can disagree on what is or isn't appropriate conduct, but who are either of us to tell anyone that?

Save CoH is a group of people with different ideas amongst themselves.
Most of the strictly following Tony died down some time after the "final response" and others took some initiatives in continuing exposure and avenues to sway things in favor of CoH returning.
Not that Tony's efforts have stopped at all either. Just saying that the initial phase of waiting only for Tony seemed to lessen (a good thing... again, not because Tony is bad, haha, he's not... I think he's been great help beyond acknowledgment! It's just that I found people finally started doing more on their own... which I believe is a great thing as well).

Titan Networks is simply a place for CoH Fans to gather in hopes that we will be able to play it (or something like it) again and that we may keep the community together.

It's up to every single individual as to whether they want their aspect of the community to continue.
And if they want to be a vocal dissenter among the majority of differently-minded people... they can go on and be that way, but don't run back here crying that they were unfair to you. You were just a tiny voice that wasn't praised. That's life.

I didn't take part in any mob of attacks on anyone and I pretty much avoid the ridiculous threads around here (other than to maybe pop in and post some humor now and then... or maybe to defend someone that I just happen to see being treated unfairly).
No idea who might consider me a part of what, but that's on them.
I'm me and I tell it like I see it...
And your last comment there about prolific minorities and all that just comes off as bitter resentment towards some aspect of this community that I really don't know about.
I can;t imagine I am considered a part of any such thing... as I may post a lot, but I rarely am replied to and I generally only reply to respectful, good and/or funny posts... while the rest of a thread is centered around replying to the most aggressive chains of replies.

Again, that is just part of human nature it seems.
I've been tempted to post two threads of the same ideas, but one worded hatefully and toxic... and the other kind and respectfully... and show everyone the vast difference in the number of replies (no doubt, in favor of the negative one).

The Electric-Knight ______ Malfaz _____ Zox'Oculox

@Zethustra

"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan

www.pauldamonthomas.com - Original Music

... it wasn't? Wasn't he the one who started that since-deleted thread by outright calling the Titan folks idiots and racists?

Other than that, Electric Knight summed things up adequately.

You're not following... It's simple, you see...
Saying such negative things about a large group of people is okay when you're a minority that calls some other majority a minority in order to belittle them in hopes that their own minority will be praised as the majority, or at least seen as the martyred souls that were tortured by the majority that is the minority of people you don't like.

It's easier than finding out who's on first.

The Electric-Knight ______ Malfaz _____ Zox'Oculox

@Zethustra

"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan

www.pauldamonthomas.com - Original Music

But "They don't" was a completely reasonable answer to his loaded questions. He wasn't asking why Titan does certain things. He was asking why they endorse certain things.

And, well, they don't. Like Electric Knight said above, Titan is a large group of people with a bunch of different views. They don't endorse anything.


Codewalker just managed to stretch "They don't" into a full sentence.

I even included "they don't" as an optional short answer on one before going into a more detailed explanation of the reasoning behind that.

I was also hoping that since I'm one of 3 admins there besides TonyV and Sekoia and pretty close to the "inner circle", it might make those answers a little more official. But since I don't go around loudly proclaiming that, I think the point was lost.

Also... for amusement value only:

The Electric-Knight ______ Malfaz _____ Zox'Oculox

@Zethustra

"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan

www.pauldamonthomas.com - Original Music

Welcome to the dark side.