Both the Public Test Server (aka Training Room) and Beta Server are VIP-only perks.
Whether we as players think they should be available to all or not doesn't matter, the devs have decided otherwise.
@Roderick
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You really don't want to hear my answer to that.
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Originally Posted by BViking78
Ok I feel dumb to ask this, also 'cause I already looked in the forum, but as far as I know the Beta Server are reserved to VIPs right?
But shouldn't the Training Room be open to everyone? So why when I log in all the slots are locked with "Unlockable for vips"?  |
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
The Test and Beta servers are restricted because all the content is unrestricted, and the devs are not about to let non subscribers exploit the Test and Beta servers to get access to content they aren't willing to pay for on the live servers.
Also by restricting access to VIP's the devs can perform server wipes whenever they like and not worry about listening to the howls of rage from deadbeats when they log in to find everything erased because they were using the Test/Beta servers as their home server.
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The second reason sounds a little weak, at least personally I always took for granted that, being a test server, things could be wiped anytime.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
The Test and Beta servers are restricted because all the content is unrestricted, and the devs are not about to let non subscribers exploit the Test and Beta servers to get access to content they aren't willing to pay for on the live servers.
Also by restricting access to VIP's the devs can perform server wipes whenever they like and not worry about listening to the howls of rage from deadbeats when they log in to find everything erased because they were using the Test/Beta servers as their home server. |
I never understood that even way back when CoX wasn't Freedom, but I suppose that since you had to pay to play they didn't care where you played it lol.
I think they should simply wipe Test and Beta every week/month, that and adding an easy way to mess around with your toon (changing level, etc.) would be the real purpose of a test server not making your home, if you're dumb to do that well it's your fault no?
Whining anyway won't do any good obviously, tho I find this greed pretty pathetic.
Since when I got back I've spent money on CoX, at least to unlock the invention system (wasn't really nice already to get back and find my empath/healer with all the IOs and sets locked, since it was stuff I obtained while paying but whatever), until I reached enough PR to have it unlocked forever and such, but how they expect someone to spend money on an unknown powerset without giving it a try is kinda mysterious!
The only thing I don't really get now is why having two separate servers with all the "new stuff first ends up on the Beta, then Test, then live" if both Beta and Test are for VIPs anyway.
They will sometimes push a fix for a particular issue to the Test server with it running basically the same code as the Live server in order to get the best test scenario.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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Originally Posted by BViking78
Whining anyway won't do any good obviously, tho I find this greed pretty pathetic.
Since when I got back I've spent money on CoX, at least to unlock the invention system (wasn't really nice already to get back and find my empath/healer with all the IOs and sets locked, since it was stuff I obtained while paying but whatever), until I reached enough PR to have it unlocked forever and such, but how they expect someone to spend money on an unknown powerset without giving it a try is kinda mysterious! The only thing I don't really get now is why having two separate servers with all the "new stuff first ends up on the Beta, then Test, then live" if both Beta and Test are for VIPs anyway. |
Ah yes, it's been a couple of years since I saw this particular sense of entitlement argument being made. Player access to the Test/Beta servers when the devs weren't using them has always been a courtesy granted by the devs out of the kindness of their hearts.
And as to how they expect someone to spend money on an unknown power set. Well that's exactly how the game worked for the past 8 years. Customers have ALWAYS had to pay a subscription if they wanted a sneak peak on the test server during an open beta.
I have a Mac, and I'm trying to figure out how to transfer my characters to the test server. Please help. Thank you
It doesn't matter if you have a Mac, PC or Linux, you use the Character Copy Tool (Live to Training Room) to transfer characters to Beta or Test.
Note that the tool only works for the account you are currently logged into the forums with. If you have multiple accounts, and want to transfer characters from a different account, you have to log into the forums on that account (and may need to create a forum account for that game account) to do so.
@Roderick
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True that, but that's because it was a monthly sub to access the whole environment.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Ah yes, it's been a couple of years since I saw this particular sense of entitlement argument being made. Player access to the Test/Beta servers when the devs weren't using them has always been a courtesy granted by the devs out of the kindness of their hearts.
And as to how they expect someone to spend money on an unknown power set. Well that's exactly how the game worked for the past 8 years. Customers have ALWAYS had to pay a subscription if they wanted a sneak peak on the test server during an open beta. |
I think you're just looking at the matter from a wrong point of view.
If you were interested about CoH, you had fourteen days of free trial (the longest trial of any MMORPGs at that time) before deciding to pay for it or not. And as far as I remember very few things were locked down for obvious reasons, like tells to avoid spam and epic ats since they were a reward for reaching level fifty, etc.
Now instead you cannot try anything without paying for it before hand, make it paying a month to try out everything or buying the single thing you want.
So I'm sorry but I'll stick to my "greed" point of view and honestly to me it's very stupid too.
Or do you buy every single game out there only 'cause the devs tell you that it's the best game ever without even trying it? :P
P.s.
By the way even being subscribed to this thread I don't get any mail when someone posts anything, but hey I'm not a VIP I don't deserve even that! LOL
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Except for:|
Originally Posted by BViking78
Now instead you cannot try anything without paying for it before hand
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Access at least 8 Archetypes (Blaster, Brute, Corruptor, Defender, Dominator, Scrapper, Stalker and Tanker)
At least two Global Character Slot Tokens across all servers (details on the Global Character Slot page)
Create costumes from billions of combinations
Play as a Hero or Villain up to Level 50
105 Power Sets
Join Supergroups
Edit Supergroup Bases
Play in 45 different game zones
Access to Local, Team, Help, Pets, Friends, League, Arena, Leveling Pact, Looking for Group, Emote, and Architect Communication Channels
Reward drops including small Inspirations, Training (TO), Dual-Origin (DO), Single-Origin (SO) and Special Enhancements
Receiving email (not sending)
Inf cap of 25 million inf per character
Limited inventory
Ability to buy anything from the Paragon Market
Read the Official Forums
Support by Knowledge Base and email
HOLY CRAP LOOK AT ALL THAT NOTHING
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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LOL. I was obviously referring to things that are locked, I'm pretty sure that most of the people got that! |
Originally Posted by DarkGob
Except for:
Access at least 8 Archetypes (Blaster, Brute, Corruptor, Defender, Dominator, Scrapper, Stalker and Tanker) At least two Global Character Slot Tokens across all servers (details on the Global Character Slot page) Create costumes from billions of combinations Play as a Hero or Villain up to Level 50 105 Power Sets Join Supergroups Edit Supergroup Bases Play in 45 different game zones Access to Local, Team, Help, Pets, Friends, League, Arena, Leveling Pact, Looking for Group, Emote, and Architect Communication Channels Reward drops including small Inspirations, Training (TO), Dual-Origin (DO), Single-Origin (SO) and Special Enhancements Receiving email (not sending) Inf cap of 25 million inf per character Limited inventory Ability to buy anything from the Paragon Market Read the Official Forums Support by Knowledge Base and email HOLY CRAP LOOK AT ALL THAT NOTHING |
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Then maybe you should have said that because that is not even remotely close to what you actually said and it changes the meaning substantially.|
Originally Posted by BViking78
LOL. I was obviously referring to things that are locked, I'm pretty sure that most of the people got that!
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The point is, pretty much no matter how you slice it, you get more now than you did before. And what else could the devs do, exactly? There's really no way to temporarily "unlock" a powerset to try it out in any meaningful way. Let you level it up to 10? You're not going to learn anything about how it plays in 10 levels. Level 15 maybe? Level 20? Where do you draw the line? Eventually it gets to the point where the devs are giving that away for free too. And access to the Beta/Test servers? If they let just anyone on the servers will be flooded with people who have no intention of actually testing anything, most will just want a sneak peek at what's coming up (which is what already happens). Or simply play stuff for free on Test that they would otherwise have to pay for on Live, which defeats the purpose of having to pay for it.
The reason we're getting all this cool stuff (and at a much faster pace than before, I'll remind you) is because of the new business model.
Things costs money.
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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Originally Posted by BViking78
If you were interested about CoH, you had fourteen days of free trial (the longest trial of any MMORPGs at that time) before deciding to pay for it or not. And as far as I remember very few things were locked down for obvious reasons, like tells to avoid spam and epic ats since they were a reward for reaching level fifty, etc.
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Trial accounts had the following restrictions.
- Could not email other players
- Could not level past 14
- Limited to 50,000 inf
- Could not join global channels
- Chatting restricted to /local, /hc (the Help channel), and /team
- Could not invite players to team(but could join other players' teams)
- Could not join SuperGroups
- Could not create Mission Architect arcs
- Could not interact with Architect Entertainment Stations (but could be invited onto a team that was running MA missions)
And as if my memory serves I don't think they had access to the test/beta servers either back then.
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Originally Posted by DarkGob
Then maybe you should have said that because that is not even remotely close to what you actually said and it changes the meaning substantially.
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Actually, I think I 'got' the same thing as Forbin did......|
Originally Posted by BViking78
LOL. I was obviously referring to things that are locked, I'm pretty sure that most of the people got that!
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Ah yes, it's been a couple of years since I saw this particular sense of entitlement argument being made.
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
I'm with DarkGob, Forbin and Ironblade on this.
I got the same interpretation that they did.
Had DarkGob not responded with such a full list I was prepared to start a similar response.
One of the things he did leave off was the limited ability to post on the forums. Under the initial plan that was presented before Freedom launched free and premium accounts would have had 0 posting priveleges.
You can thank the forum regulars for speaking up and pointing out specific forum sections that would be extremely beneficial for free players to post in such as Gameplay / Technical Issues & Bugs and this one (Player Questions).
I know that I saw posts from DarkGob, Forbin and Ironblade supporting the idea of allowing limited posting priveleges and I know I supported the idea as well, so we are 4 of the people that you can thank for helping change Paragon Studios plans in that regard.
So yes, while you may not get email notifications about a thread while you are premium you can at least say so on this forum section. If forum posters hadn't fought to get that access for you we'd only hear about your complaints in game, and then only depending on your level of access to various chat channels.
There are times I wonder if we made a mistake in getting them to change their plans, but most times I think we did a good thing.
EDIT: And you may or may not notice that I'm still not putting my answer to your original question in my posts. You still really don't want to hear my answer.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
Sorry, the economy class passenger doesn't get access to the First Class lounge at the airport while waiting for their flight. It's a reward for their achieving a certain level of brand loyalty.
In the case with the beta of Issue 24, it's being a subscriber. At least that's a clearly defined status where earlier beta invites required years of being a subscriber. Here you could subscribe for a month tomorrow and be in the beta immediately (or the next day). Or you could wait until it's officially released and then decide if you want to spend any money on this game.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Also looking at things from the companies point of view, they are far more likely to get useful feedback from paying customers that participate on the beta/test servers than non subscribers who are only there to play restricted content without paying for access.
And the above comment is not directed at former VIP's that were helpful betatesters who have unsubbed for various reasons. It's just an acknowledgment that they are not the majority of non subscribers.
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I didn't mean to slight old school players who are now premium whose reward token total has nothing to do with buying beaucoup Paragon Points. But it wouldn't be VIP if VIPs didn't get something and an early look at the next issue is analogous to donors getting to see a full dress rehearsal of a Broadway show before it's open to the general public.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
And the above comment is not directed at former VIP's that were helpful betatesters who have unsubbed for various reasons. It's just an acknowledgment that they are not the majority of non subscribers.
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Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Quote:
I'm sincerely sorry Father Xmas, I should have been more clear. |
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
I didn't mean to slight old school players who are now premium whose reward token total has nothing to do with buying beaucoup Paragon Points. But it wouldn't be VIP if VIPs didn't get something and an early look at the next issue is analogous to donors getting to see a full dress rehearsal of a Broadway show before it's open to the general public.
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I wasn't referring to anything you said, I was referring my own statement about the likelihood of getting useful beta testing feedback from VIP's vs non subscribers. I simply wanted to make it clear that I wasn't intending any slight towards the helpful beta testers who've dropped to premium status.
Again my apologies for my confusing statement.
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LOL I dunno why I should make an example with things you can try before paying for them and things that are already unlocked and free but whatever.|
Originally Posted by DarkGob
Then maybe you should have said that because that is not even remotely close to what you actually said and it changes the meaning substantially.
There's really no way to temporarily "unlock" a powerset to try it out in any meaningful way. Let you level it up to 10? You're not going to learn anything about how it plays in 10 levels. Level 15 maybe? Level 20? Where do you draw the line? Eventually it gets to the point where the devs are giving that away for free too. And access to the Beta/Test servers? If they let just anyone on the servers will be flooded with people who have no intention of actually testing anything, most will just want a sneak peek at what's coming up (which is what already happens). Or simply play stuff for free on Test that they would otherwise have to pay for on Live, which defeats the purpose of having to pay for it. The reason we're getting all this cool stuff (and at a much faster pace than before, I'll remind you) is because of the new business model. Things costs money. |
I agree that I get more than when I was a subscriber, I'm not complaining about that but it seems that you guys are just focusing on this lol, what I'm merely asking is the ability to try something before buying it.
I already made a "mistake" with Dual Pistols, while it was cool with Street Justice, I honestly hate them (personal tastes so nothing to talk about).
If I had the chance to test them before buying maybe I could have bought something else.
I agree that you cannot really judge a powerset till the end, but I'm also pretty sure that you didn't need to take every single powerset to 50 before liking it or not no?
Reaching 10 wouldn't be that bad, since also as a high level toon the first three attacks chain is those you're gonna use more (scrapper wise especially).
From the bottom of my heart guys if you wanna eat all the ***** that they throw at your and call it lobsters be my guests, but I'm honest enough to notice that while they're doing some things good they're doing others in pretty lame way.
I'm pretty sure that if they want to do something they can do it and your idea about unlocking wouldn't be that bad. You don't wanna flood the Test and Beta? Ok keep it a VIP thing but I would't spit on unlocking something for 24h to try it or something like that.
"Things costs money." I agree 100% on this, that's why I dunno why I should buy "a pig in a poke"!
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Trial accounts had the following restrictions.
Yeah very few things were restricted on trial accounts. They had it so much better before Freedom launched. And as if my memory serves I don't think they had access to the test/beta servers either back then. |
Except the teaming part, which I think you're wrong since I tried it with a mate and we teamed with no problems (oh and we were both using trials! I'm clarifying since some people don't get things so easily) you just have to try the damn thing, not take a toon to level fifty.
And why should you have access to the test since you were already testing things out? No offense but I think that too much CoH is damaging your brains guys lol.
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Originally Posted by Texas Justice
One of the things he did leave off was the limited ability to post on the forums. Under the initial plan that was presented before Freedom launched free and premium accounts would have had 0 posting priveleges.
There are times I wonder if we made a mistake in getting them to change their plans, but most times I think we did a good thing. |
And yet you don't think it was very lame? As far as I know email support was also only reserved to VIP players, I dunno if it's still like that tho, since DarkGob included it in that long list.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Also looking at things from the companies point of view, they are far more likely to get useful feedback from paying customers that participate on the beta/test servers than non subscribers who are only there to play restricted content without paying for access.
And the above comment is not directed at former VIP's that were helpful betatesters who have unsubbed for various reasons. It's just an acknowledgment that they are not the majority of non subscribers. |
And I agree 50% 'cause you know better than me that also back then most of the people used them to try new things before they went live, not to talk about all the bugs reported by the "helpful betatesters" that just went ignored and such, but I'm sure you know about them. And more important VIP status doesn't make you experienced about CoH at all, if you really think that they're getting more help now from people that maybe just joined the game well...
Once and for all, I'm not here to steal things or to think that the devs should give everything away for free, seems like I came here asking to open the VIP server (freedom or how the hell it's called) to everyone lol.
As I wrote in one of my previous post when I got back on here when Freedom launched all my IOs were locked down. While it pissed me off and I would have worked the whole thing in a different way, I didn't complain but I accepted it and I bought points and such until I have it unlocked for free now with the paragon rewards. But I knew how cool the numina's and such were for my empath/healer.
But I don't think that getting to try something before spending my money on it is such a ******* ABSURD idea.
I honestly don't know why it's so hard to understand for you guys really.
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When I started (pretty close to when you did, judging by join dates), there were NO restrictions on trial accounts. The restrictions were added later, but not much. They've been place at least 3 years, probably closer to 4, IIRC.|
Originally Posted by BViking78
Except the teaming part, which I think you're wrong since I tried it with a mate and we teamed with no problems (oh and we were both using trials!
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But I don't think that getting to try something before spending my money on it is such a ******* ABSURD idea. I honestly don't know why it's so hard to understand for you guys really. |
Test server does NOT exist - and never has - for you to test out builds, try new powersets, etc. That has always been an unintended side benefit to it. Test exists to test upcoming builds and patches, to make sure that as many game-breaking bugs as possible can be found before they can actually break the game. Beta exists for a similar reason, but it is intended for material that isn't even close to a release. That's why the Test forums are viewable by all, but the Beta forums are hidden from non-subscribers.
@Roderick
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Oh that's a good answer finally.|
Originally Posted by Roderick
I don't see anyone saying that it's an absurd idea. I see people saying that the system doesn't work like that. The game doesn't have a way to let you try a purchased set and then have it locked after a certain amount of time if you don't buy it. And since the store is third-party software, altering it to add that functionality CANNOT be done by the devs, and could be anywhere from non-trivial to nearly impossible to implement.
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I didn't know that, I thought that everything was made by the devs themselves (Matt and such).
Tho I'm pretty sure that ways to let people try stuff would still be possible if they wanted it.
I still remember when this kind of talking was about power customization.
It went from "impossible", to "it can be done but it's the core of the game so a lot of work" to "here come power customization yay"!
Nothing is impossible if they wanna do it! ^_^
The devs never, ever said power customization was impossible. The players inferred that from developer discussion.
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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I never said devs, I said talking.|
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
The devs never, ever said power customization was impossible. The players inferred that from developer discussion.
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But I'm glad that you agree with me on the fact that nothing is impossible if they want to do it!
Ok I feel dumb to ask this, also 'cause I already looked in the forum, but as far as I know the Beta Server are reserved to VIPs right?
But shouldn't the Training Room be open to everyone? So why when I log in all the slots are locked with "Unlockable for vips"?