Sell Super-Pack items a la carte but for more
By
Basilisk,
Posted on: 2012-08-05 15:25 in Suggestions and Ideas
Here we go again.
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While this is somewhat of a dead-horse subject... the OP really does have a point.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Here we go again.
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I have to agree with him/her.
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This isn't going to happen for the same reason you can't just 'buy' HBO from a cable company.|
Originally Posted by Garble
So I propose letting people buy the individual items that are currently available through Super-Packs, *and* continuing to make them "prizes" available in the Super-Packs. And to keep the allure of the Super-Packs for those who enjoy them, have the individual items be prices in such a way so that the Super-Packs are a greater savings than the items purchased individually.
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If Paragon thought selling stuff ala carte would net them a greater profit, that's what they'd do. It isn't, so they won't.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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And that's part of why television show piracy is so rampant.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
This isn't going to happen for the same reason you can't just 'buy' HBO from a cable company.
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"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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Actually, I *can* buy a bundle that I know includes HBO.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
This isn't going to happen for the same reason you can't just 'buy' HBO from a cable company.
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What they *don't* do is offer me a bundle of 5 random channels that *could* be HBO, HBO 2, HBO Comedy, HBO Family & HBO Signature but will *likely* be The Weather Channel in 5 languages.
Realistic all-natural character: Every time a NPC shoots me with a gun I run to the nearest hospital and don't play that character for about a week.
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It's rampant because it's easy.|
Originally Posted by DarkGob
And that's part of why television show piracy is so rampant.
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It wouldn't be any less rampant if they offered up channels ala carte, unless they also figured out a way to stuff the filesharing genie back in its bottle.
The make more money selling bundles, so that's what they do.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Great.|
Originally Posted by Garble
Actually, I *can* buy a bundle that I know includes HBO.
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Can you just go the store and buy HBO because you only want HBO?
No, you can't.
That's what this discussion is about.
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| What they *don't* do is offer me a bundle of 5 random channels that *could* be HBO, HBO 2, HBO Comedy, HBO Family & HBO Signature but will *likely* be The Weather Channel in 5 languages. |
But kudos for being the first to push a casually useful metaphor past its breaking point.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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I did say it was part of the reason, not the entire reason. And if cable companies would pull their heads out of...let's say "the sand" and look at what online music stores have done, they'd realize there IS money to be made in a la carte sales.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
It's rampant because it's easy.
It wouldn't be any less rampant if they offered up channels ala carte, unless they also figured out a way to stuff the filesharing genie back in its bottle. The make more money selling bundles, so that's what they do. |
You're right, the filesharing genie isn't going back into its bottle. Instead, companies must learn to leverage the technology behind it while giving consumers what they want instead of shoving what they think consumers should have down their throats. This is already happening, but way too slowly in my opinion.
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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Online music sales have been a disaster for everyone on the business end other than the new de facto middleman, Apple. On the consumer end it's been terrific, but for labels and most artists it's been apocalyptic. They decided taking a nickle on the dollar was the better than getting nothing, so they made the deal. |
Originally Posted by DarkGob
I did say it was part of the reason, not the entire reason. And if cable companies would pull their heads out of...let's say "the sand" and look at what online music stores have done, they'd realize there IS money to be made in a la carte sales.
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The cable companies aren't in that position, mainly I'd guess because their product makes a much bigger file and is harder to encode- sharing video isn't as frictionless as sharing music.
Anyway, for whatever reason they can still (mostly) enforce their business model and so it's bundles all 'round. Eventually it's all going to be streaming and clouds and whatnot (I've been using Roku for all my broadcast entertainment needs for going on 3 years now) but for the moment they're still fighting the future with reasonable success.
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| You're right, the filesharing genie isn't going back into its bottle. Instead, companies must learn to leverage the technology behind it while giving consumers what they want instead of shoving what they think consumers should have down their throats. This is already happening, but way too slowly in my opinion. |
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Just anticipating the discussion getting rehashed again for the umpteenth time while the popcorn gets popped. Not sayin the OP is wrong, or right.
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Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
While this is somewhat of a dead-horse subject... the OP really does have a point.
I have to agree with him/her. |
I opened 239 Set #1 Super Packs before I got the Black Wolf pet. I know some people got it in their first pack and I know other people have opened 500 or more and have not gotten it yet. I'm just stating this to make sure we all remember that "random is random" and that is the way it's supposed to work.
While I don't strictly like the idea of being able to cherry pick things out of -current- Super Pack sets I could be in favor of allowing people to buy things like the Black Wolf directly from the market a long time after Super Pack Set #1 has been replaced by future sets. This would let people eventually catch up with obsolete sets but still preserve the current card-collecting/gambling environment for the latest set. If people had to wait like a year before they could buy these special things that would be plenty of time for them to be "exclusive" to those who care about that sort of thing.
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--{=====> Virtue ♀
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As noted previously, the moment they sell either the costume bits or the 'rare special' from one of these packs *poof* there go the bulk of their future pack sales.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
While I don't strictly like the idea of being able to cherry pick things out of -current- Super Pack sets I could be in favor of allowing people to buy things like the Black Wolf directly from the market a long time after Super Pack Set #1 has been replaced by future sets. This would let people eventually catch up with obsolete sets but still preserve the current card-collecting/gambling environment for the latest set. If people had to wait like a year before they could buy these special things that would be plenty of time for them to be "exclusive" to those who care about that sort of thing.
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So, yeah....don't hold yer collective breaths.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Maybe, but it really boils down to how much "gambling" you're willing to do. |
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
As noted previously, the moment they sell either the costume bits or the 'rare special' from one of these packs *poof* there go the bulk of their future pack sales.
So, yeah....don't hold yer collective breaths. |
Would you be willing to buy some packs now for a CHANCE to get the Black Wolf or would you be willing to pay like $20 for it directly a year from now? I suspect there would still be plenty of people willing to gamble for it today who either don't want to wait a year or who don't like the idea of paying $20 directly for anything much less a vanity pet.
Also by the time a year comes around most people will probably be buying packs from Set #3 or #4 by then. Effectivelly no one will still be buying packs from Set #1 once there are newer sets to be had.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
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I'd say that depends on the buyers motives for buying packs. I haven't been buying packs for the costumes. When I get them it's because I want to sell the ATO's on the market for quick half billion inf that I can use on whatever project I'm working on.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
Also by the time a year comes around most people will probably be buying packs from Set #3 or #4 by then. Effectivelly no one will still be buying packs from Set #1 once there are newer sets to be had.
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As long as ATO's are selling for tens and hundreds of millions of inf, I will always be willing to burn a few Paragon Rewards on Super Packs. Why waste time grinding mindless farms when I can get what I want for 30 seconds of buying and selling the stuff from the packs.
Besides my paragon rewards are just sitting there accumulating and gathering virtual dust between releases of Tier 9 costumes. Other than the packs there's nothing else I'm willing to spend my rewards on.
And that's not counting all the stuff I can get with the reward merits the packs give out.
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I like this idea.
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Originally Posted by Garble
Selling of items through Super-Packs wildly flies against the rest of COH's a la carte system.
It hides which items are more popular and makes you buy several things you may not want in the hopes of getting what you're really after. It also makes it nearly impossible for those of us who are probability-challenged to obtain the items we would gladly pay good money for, if given the chance. BUT I get that some people like the current card-collecting/gambling system for getting stuff. So I propose letting people buy the individual items that are currently available through Super-Packs, *and* continuing to make them "prizes" available in the Super-Packs. And to keep the allure of the Super-Packs for those who enjoy them, have the individual items be prices in such a way so that the Super-Packs are a greater savings than the items purchased individually. |
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard.  Never change, E_L! |
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That depends on the SP#1 being withdrawn, which really makes little sense. It isn't as though Paragon are paying to have packs of cards printed and shipped to stores. As long as each SP has unique content (like the costume pieces and ATOs), then there's a reason for someone to want to buy one pack type rather than another, and no reason to pull a pack from the store.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
While I don't strictly like the idea of being able to cherry pick things out of -current- Super Pack sets I could be in favor of allowing people to buy things like the Black Wolf directly from the market a long time after Super Pack Set #1 has been replaced by future sets.
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Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
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It boils down to people paying a premium for an item in a lottery system and them having it sold for a 'flat rate' some time later.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
Maybe, but it really boils down to how much "gambling" you're willing to do.
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Someone who bought 100 or 200 packs to get the Uber Rare Whatsit isn't going to be happy with that and will sit out the next lottery, knowing they can get the Uber Rare Whatsit at a massive discount later on.
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| Would you be willing to buy some packs now for a CHANCE to get the Black Wolf or would you be willing to pay like $20 for it directly a year from now? I suspect there would still be plenty of people willing to gamble for it today who either don't want to wait a year or who don't like the idea of paying $20 directly for anything much less a vanity pet. |
Or rather, I'd buy packs until I got the stuff I did want, and if a wolf appeared during that span, cool.
But I wouldn't chase it, and I wouldn't buy it in the store.
I'm not the audience for that sort of perk.
For round one I bought a few stray packs to see what the deal was, then picked up the 24 pack to fill out the costume set. Got a bunch of other cool stuff too, but I wouldn't have kept buying without the costume- that's the draw for me.
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| Also by the time a year comes around most people will probably be buying packs from Set #3 or #4 by then. Effectivelly no one will still be buying packs from Set #1 once there are newer sets to be had. |
Will the costume set be any less desirable just because there are newer ones?
Will people interested in ultra rare vanity pets be any less interested because there are other ultra rare trinkets available?
No to both.
Super Pack 1 will sell as long as the game keeps attracting new players who don't already have 'everything'. If it works at all, which I think even its most ardent detractors would admit it does, then there's no reason it won't keep working for as long as they want to keep selling it.
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Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
That depends on the SP#1 being withdrawn, which really makes little sense. It isn't as though Paragon are paying to have packs of cards printed and shipped to stores. As long as each SP has unique content (like the costume pieces and ATOs), then there's a reason for someone to want to buy one pack type rather than another, and no reason to pull a pack from the store.
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The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Sure there might be some willing to wait for these things for that entire YEAR as I suggested. But I still suspect some would not want to wait that long and try gambling for the rares regardless. Just to be completely clear I would only be in favor of the Devs selling (at an extreme premium) the unique items from these Super Packs long after they are effectively obsolete. A period of one year would satisfy that for me at least.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
It boils down to people paying a premium for an item in a lottery system and them having it sold for a 'flat rate' some time later.
Someone who bought 100 or 200 packs to get the Uber Rare Whatsit isn't going to be happy with that and will sit out the next lottery, knowing they can get the Uber Rare Whatsit at a massive discount later on. |
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Will the costume set be any less desirable just because there are newer ones?
Will people interested in ultra rare vanity pets be any less interested because there are other ultra rare trinkets available? No to both. Super Pack 1 will sell as long as the game keeps attracting new players who don't already have 'everything'. If it works at all, which I think even its most ardent detractors would admit it does, then there's no reason it won't keep working for as long as they want to keep selling it. |
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Originally Posted by Grouchybeast
That depends on the SP#1 being withdrawn, which really makes little sense. It isn't as though Paragon are paying to have packs of cards printed and shipped to stores. As long as each SP has unique content (like the costume pieces and ATOs), then there's a reason for someone to want to buy one pack type rather than another, and no reason to pull a pack from the store.
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--{=====> Virtue ♀
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I've waited a year to create a character so I could start with a toga because I wasn't willing to level up to 35+ and run an ITF before getting appropriate costume pieces.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
Sure there might be some willing to wait for these things for that entire YEAR as I suggested.
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| When you compare what we already know is going to be in Super Pack set #2 there is a huge amount of overlap with what was already in set #1. It seems like it would actually be relatively easy for the Devs to eventually sell -everything- that makes a specific set unique in the Market long after it is considered "old" and replaced by whatever the latest set is.. |
Just pointing that out.
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And when they burn 30 or 50 packs and haven't gotten it, do they keep going because that is the only way to get Teh Shiny, or do they say "the heck with this!" and wait for the eventual store release?|
Originally Posted by Lothic
Sure there might be some willing to wait for these things for that entire YEAR as I suggested. But I still suspect some would not want to wait that long and try gambling for the rares regardless.
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If you're being honest, you know the answer to that.
The UBER RAREZ are a way to get a certain type of player to buy a large number of super packs. You can certainly complain about the percieved fairness of doing it at all, but there's simply no argument to be made in favor of short-circuiting that (very effective, judging by the success of SP 1) process by eventually just dumping those shinys on the market.
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| Just to be completely clear I would only be in favor of the Devs selling (at an extreme premium) the unique items from these Super Packs long after they are effectively obsolete. A period of one year would satisfy that for me at least. |
For players who care about such things, that wolf will be every bit as enticing 5 years from now as it is today.
Offering the things that make people want superpacks in the first place through the store defeats the whole purpose of the system.
You want a deterministic way to get the shiny, which is understandable.
Your mistake is attempting to argue that's a good idea for Paragon Studios.
It would undermine player support for what has been an extremely profitable endeavor, and that would be bad for the bottom line.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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? You don't unlock the toga through the ITF, it's part of the Valentine's Day event.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I've waited a year to create a character so I could start with a toga because I wasn't willing to level up to 35+ and run an ITF before getting appropriate costume pieces.
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"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
Pretty sure it boils down to "lotteries and other forms of gambling are wrong and bad; I'll pay extra, just let me buy them directly rather than gating them behind a random, immoral and/or dishonest scheme."
Did I cover all the usual points?
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
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"I just want the costume parts and don't give two hoots about ATOs".|
Originally Posted by Megajoule
Pretty sure it boils down to "lotteries and other forms of gambling are wrong and bad; I'll pay extra, just let me buy them directly rather than gating them behind a random, immoral and/or dishonest scheme."
Did I cover all the usual points? |
I gave up on a separate release for the costume packs and used some tokens to buy multipacks. I'll do the same when the second one comes round since I don't find the other repeatables worth tokens.
OPs suggestion is nice; never gonna happen.
Tyger (50), Mutation-Controller Mind/FF - oldest Mind/FF on Union
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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That's my point Dark.|
Originally Posted by DarkGob
? You don't unlock the toga through the ITF, it's part of the Valentine's Day event.
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When they added the Roman costume pieces, I couldn't get the toga, sandals, and victory laural I needed for the basic costume until the following February.
That's why I waited a year to create the character.
Selling of items through Super-Packs wildly flies against the rest of COH's a la carte system.
It hides which items are more popular and makes you buy several things you may not want in the hopes of getting what you're really after. It also makes it nearly impossible for those of us who are probability-challenged to obtain the items we would gladly pay good money for, if given the chance.
BUT
I get that some people like the current card-collecting/gambling system for getting stuff.
So I propose letting people buy the individual items that are currently available through Super-Packs, *and* continuing to make them "prizes" available in the Super-Packs. And to keep the allure of the Super-Packs for those who enjoy them, have the individual items be prices in such a way so that the Super-Packs are a greater savings than the items purchased individually.
Realistic all-natural character: Every time a NPC shoots me with a gun I run to the nearest hospital and don't play that character for about a week.