Marketing by Dummies (A 30 Day Marketing Challenge)
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2012-08-03 24:13 in The Market and Inventions
Quote:
... I tend to roll my HMs at level 30 and 35. They seem to do a lot better than even 32 or 33 .
| I decided to gamble a little and rolled 30-34 with my Hero Merit |
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Quote:
I have been busy with RL and not marketing too much, but I did hop on and craft/list around 50 items in my favorites niches, at stupidly high pricepoints, just to be sure there was stuff available to soak up the demand.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
never pull ANYTHING before a 2xp weekend.
|
I'm altruistic!
Day 9: Friday July 27, 2012
Only sold one Efficacy Adaptor: End Mod/Rech for 20 mill...
No idea what Im doing wrong thats keeping ALL of my stuff from filling, Im posting things for more/less than the last few trying to get things on the low, but nothing wants to work...
Sold the Decimation for 20 mill, bought a Luck of the Gambler: +7.5% Global Recharge, crafted and listed, my current plan is to get enough cash to buy a cheap purple, craft, convert, and sell, and hopefully that treats me better than the rest of all this has so far.
Ran some stuff, got level 32.
(As a side note, this is just about the low-point of my experience so far, I was feeling very discouraged that nothing I seemed to try was working out, even though, in some cases, I was doing exactly what others had done.
If I had to make a guess at what was going wrong, I'd say I wasn't making good use of Enhancement Storage in my base. Most of my market slots were filled all the time, but I wasn't building up storage of good things to sell on weekends, and I was clogging up what slots I had on items that weren't fast sellers.
In the end, I don't think this particular blunder is going to cost me much in results, just in efficiency to get to those results.)
Quote:
Never underestimate the idiocy of buyers <grin>|
Originally Posted by Skifer Tomme
Day 9: Friday July 27, 2012
Only sold one Efficacy Adaptor: End Mod/Rech for 20 mill... No idea what I’m doing wrong that’s keeping ALL of my stuff from filling, I’m posting things for more/less than the last few trying to get things on the low, but nothing wants to work... |
What's likely happening is that other people are listing stuff lower (possibly far lower) than you, but buyers are only looking at the last 5 prices and not bid creeping, thus keeping the last 5 far higher than the minimum listed prices.
It's also possible that it's not a niche that moves fast, but is one that's consistent.
Add up your crafting costs, salvage costs and recipe costs, add 10%, then decide what minumum profit margin is acceptable to you, add that to the total and list at that price. If stuff still isn't shifting at that price, then you're going to have to employ the marketeers secret weapon - Patience.
Unfortunately, as you're on a self imposed time restriction,then patience may not be an option.
Anyway, good luck with this, hopefully some of the above drivel is of some use.
Warning:
The above post may contain Cynicism, sarcasm and/or pessimism. If you object to the quantities contained, then tough.
Quote:
As I noted earlier, the way to get fast sell-through is price ridiculously low- like, cost + a million or two. Certainly less than 1/2 the "going rate".|
Originally Posted by Skifer Tomme
Day 9: Friday July 27, 2012
Only sold one Efficacy Adaptor: End Mod/Rech for 20 mill... No idea what Im doing wrong thats keeping ALL of my stuff from filling, Im posting things for more/less than the last few trying to get things on the low, but nothing wants to work... Sold the Decimation for 20 mill, bought a Luck of the Gambler: +7.5% Global Recharge, crafted and listed, my current plan is to get enough cash to buy a cheap purple, craft, convert, and sell, and hopefully that treats me better than the rest of all this has so far. |
10m, 20m, that's chump change for the people who buy crafted IOs.
Players who care about spending a few tens of millions aren't your customers- those guys are buying recipes and crafting their own for 1 1/0th the cost. Buying crafted IOs is a pure luxury niche.
So, if the last five is a solid wall of 10 millions or 15 millions, list at 5.
Or heck, try one at 3 and see what happens.
There are always bottom feeders bidding a couple million hoping for a score, or flippers with lowball bids, so you can't just dump stuff for cost because you'll probably get burned. But cost plus a little bit will usually net you whatever the 'going rate' is.
Here's how I shop for crafted IOs:
last 5:
10m
10m
7m
10m
15m
If I'm feeling playful I'll throw up a 2m bid just to see if I can catch someone out. Sometimes it works, most of the time it doesn't.
Then I'll bid the 'going rate' plus a bit- 11m, or more likely 11,111,111 because I'm too lazy to use more than one key on the numberpad.
If that doesn't get it, I'm going up to 20m because I'm tired of re-typing bids.
Point being, people with massive piles of disposable inf are your customers for crafted IOs. And they are, for the most part, not going to quibble about paying between 5-20m for a crafted IO.
Just remember, the last 5 tells you nothing except what people have paid.
Your goal is to list for the lowest price you can justify so that next 10m or whatever sale goes to you instead of some 'craft to sell' operator who's making the IO for 1m, listing it at 3.5 and selling it for 10.
For super high end stuff the rules are different- when you convert that purple, list it for more or less what you want to sell it for.
But for cheap stuff (cheap = anything 20m and below), list it for as low a price as you can live with. Turnover, turnover, turnover.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quote:
This.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Turnover, turnover, turnover.
|
My approach is that I try to be Wal-Mart rather than Tiffany's.
Leader of Legion of Valor/Fallen Legion (Victory server)
http://legionofvalor.guildportal.com / http://fallenlegion.guildportal.com
StainedGlassScarlet - L50 Spines/Inv Scrapper | Badges: 1,396
Avatar detail taken from full-size piece by Douglas Shuler here
Quote:
I think being a genuine Eeeebil Marketeer takes a shift in thinking. |
Originally Posted by Eric Nelson
This.
My approach is that I try to be Wal-Mart rather than Tiffany's. |
Like, a 'regular player' looks at a 10m IO and thinks EXPENSIVE!, whereas I look at one and think "geez, how many of those would I have to schlep to market to equal one converted Purple sale? Ugh!"
The best way to make a gigantic gang-pile of play money is to realize it's play money and treat it accordingly.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quote:
2xp weekend is a great time to earn Field Crafter. By the time you carry salvage from AE to the university and then IOs to the auction house, your last batch has sold and it's time for another lap.
|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
never pull ANYTHING before a 2xp weekend.
You're about to see a flood of demand that will sweep away every overpriced bit of junk the market has to offer. I have a bet with myself on whether my field crafter will be able to empty out three base storage bins of leve 20 damages & endmods for over 1m each. =P |
I figure at ten days in it would be a good time to reiterate that what's being posted now is from 16 days ago, but feel free to post any suggestions that you have, I'll probably end up using them in the future.
Day 10: Saturday July 28, 2012
Poked around in Mids some more, decided to do a crazy build with lots of purples:
http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/downl...A9F17F0350F05F
Don't really expect to have the cash to make it, but I haven't had any happiness building something without, so I figured why not?
Finally sold that first Achilles Heel Proc for 40 million and the Unspeakable Terror Acc/Fear/Rech for 20 million and a few Generic IOs for .1 million to .5 million. Priced to move, not to sell for maximum.
Bought another Luck of the Gambler +7.5 and crafted/listed it, even though the first one hasnt sold yet, I'm listing them highish, expecting things to go eventually, mostly because I don't want to get caught-out selling something worth large for little.
Finally had a bulk purchase go though, a 10 stack of Efficacy Adaptor recipes, though I dont know if theyre really good ones or not. Picked up the recipes for like 31k, and the enhancement sells for 4-5 mill, so good profit, though I'm not sure how fast the turn over is, I'll just have to wait and see.
Also hit 33, which I suppose is important information.
Day 11: Sunday July 29, 2012
Pay dirt!
Sold the Sciroccos Dervish Acc/Dam/End for 15 million, and both the Luck of the Gamblers for 104 and 85 million respectively. Both of those points were fairly conservative listings on my point, at or around where the last 5 had sold, basically I was maximizing my return, not my rate of turnover.
The real point is I finally have the funds to start playing the converter game, if I can get my hands on some 150 million purple recipes. So I put some lowball (142 million) bids on 2 different purple recipes, since thats all the cash I have, and since none instant filled for 150 million. Hopefully something moves while Im doing stuffs today to give me a little more buffer.
Bought the Stalker ATO Acc/Dam/End/Rech for my standing 4.1 mill, also picked up the Acc/Dam for the same price. It's taken a while to get them, about a week or so, but for fairly cheap. Also by only having one or two bids up at a time I didn't tie up too many slots/cash waiting for them to fill.
Messed up my tips from the night before, so only did 2 to bring me back to 5s and hit 35
Did a Numinas since I couldnt get in on a Manticore (the weekly) or ITF (which is just awesome xp).
None of my bids had filled yet, so I cancel a purple one and start hunting for an instant buy. Got one! This is my first ever crafted purple enhancement, an Absolute Amazement: Stun/Rech. I check its price, see it's going for lots, so rather than converting, I just list it. I guess I get to wait and see what happens... Hope it's something good! Otherwise I just lost 12.5 mill on the listing fee...
Bought another Luck of the Gambler +7.5, and dont even have the money to get the crafting mats, yar, cutting things close.
Quote:
Purples at the low end have dried up, partly due to people noticing how much inf you can make converting them, partly due to 2xp weekend inspiring most folks to play lower level guys & eroding supply.|
Originally Posted by Skifer Tomme
The real point is I finally have the funds to start playing the converter game, if I can get my hands on some 150 million purple recipes. So I put some lowball (142 million) bids on 2 different purple recipes, since thats all the cash I have, and since none instant filled for 150 million. Hopefully something moves while Im doing stuffs today to give me a little more buffer.
|
If you don't want to wait around for things to normalize, I'd suggest either combining those two bids into one higher bid more likely to fill in a timely manner, or switch over to PvP IOs. The margins tend to be smaller, but you can reliably get recipes for around 90m instead of 150-160. The good ones do go for purple prices (300m), the okay ones go for 150 or so. After dabbling a bit I switched back to purples- lower turnover = fewer converters needed, and bankroll isn't a problem for me.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Day 12: Monday July 30, 2012
Ive spent a total of 46 hours on patrol so far, which seems like a really small number to me. Of course what I always think of is the hundreds of hours it used to take to get the 50, which it most definitely doesn't take anymore. (Change for the so much better!)
Managed to run an ITF and the weekly, Manticore, and hit 41, flying towards 50, not so much towards my goal of Marketing riches.
Ran SSA1.1, trying to get it at just after the reset, seems I was off on the thought of when I last ran it since it took me several times to get it done. Not a big deal though, doesn't take long, and even at it's worst gives me 5 Merits.
Also took down the Absolute Amazement: Stun/Rech since it hadn't moved yet. I'm still forgetting that I'm focusing on speed not efficiency. Took four converters to convert it to a damage one, an Armageddon Dam/Rech/Acc, and relisted for more.
OMG! Was doing some last minute Summer Events on various chars and ran across War Maid, alt of Organica! (Or so I think according to her signature on the forums) Her threads are obviously my reason to do this! Cool beans!
So, I'm coming close to the end (on day 27 right now) so I figured I might as well speed up the posting, since I'll probably start to lose interest if I'm not playing this character every day.
Day 13: Tuesday July 31, 2012
I think Ive finally worked out the build I want:
http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/downl...A8FE0355BF0A62
Or maybe this...
http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/downl...CCF85F52081557
Man, finally found a framework I like and now Im just tweaking like crazy!
Ran an ITF, which was the weekly, which got me to 43. With an ITF Weekly I should be able to get a bunch of those to level up.
My money making theory is changing to flipping ATOs, because purple just isnt working for me, I think Im pushing the margins too much, but I dont really have the experience to know that.
Gonna start using Hero Merits to fill out my build (went with the first one), gonna roll some randoms for the first few days, then get specifics. Hope I can get lucky.
Quote:
Yay, I'm famous!|
Originally Posted by Skifer Tomme
OMG! Was doing some last minute Summer Events on various chars and ran across War Maid, alt of Organica! (Or so I think according to her signature on the forums) Her threads are obviously my reason to do this! Cool beans!
|
I dug up This thread to try and pin down the point where I decided to be a serious marketeer... it was July 2009, about three years ago. At that point I could claim a few hundred million to my name, didn't know a lot of what I know now, and had only one (partially) IO'd character, but I was over 2 billion 6 weeks later.
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
Day 14: Wednesday August 1, 2012
Sold the Obliteration Acc/Dam/Rech for small, and finally sold the Armageddon Dam/Rech/Acc for 300 mill. Now thats more like it! Lets get this train moving along!
Also bought a bunch of Corruptor ATOs for 22 mill and going to re-list them for more.
No instant buy Purples, again, left some bids up.
Later that day I finally got an instant purple purchase, used 2 Converters to change it into a Ragnarok Dam/Rech/Acc and promptly posted it.
Most of my slots are full with selling things, which I seem to be doing a lot better flipping Corruptor ATOs (random ones) than anything else Ive tried.
Also ran my Tips, Converted Hero Merit, and rolled random (and got nothing, literally nothing of worth) and sold random small things (like sub 20mill, wow, kinda weird that that is now what counts as small.)
Got a second purple! Squee!
Buy-Craft-Convert (and that convert is a sure step, I need things that move fast for okay money, not eventually for good money)
And one converter later I have an Armageddon Rech/Acc! (Still 8 more converters, never purchased any, only gotten from drops, so far.)
Managed to hit 44.
Just checked right before bed, and in about an hour 3 more ATOs sold (for about 2x what I bought them) and the Armageddon Rech/Acc sold! Time to take my fresh funds and buy some more ATOs!
Put in bids on stacks of 5 for 22 mill, insta-bought one, flipped it back around for sale. All my cash is once again tied up, and most of my slots, but things are starting to move, so I'm feeling happier about the whole project.
I managed to make 1bil in 8 days of SUPER casual playing. I had no idea it was this easy to make money.... My first bil took 2 months. My second 8 days.... I wonder how much I can really make.
Question! What the heck do you do with inf? Right now I have a ton of inf, + junk on the market. How do I do this multi-bil stuff? I have only a single marketing char.
-------
Hew in drag baby
Quote:
Ummmm, I don't have even a single billion in influence right now, let along multi-billions of influence. I would imagine that I'd either be doing more of the same stuff I've been doing, or I'd end up stockpiling stuff in my base, or I'd just slow down on the marketing and start concentrating on other things.|
Originally Posted by OneFrigidWitch
Question! What the heck do you do with inf? Right now I have a ton of inf, + junk on the market. How do I do this multi-bil stuff? I have only a single marketing char.
|
All of my planning and scheming has been focused on the 30 day window I made for myself, so I don't really have long term plans yet.
Day 15: Thursday August 2, 2012
Halfway in, 60 hours spent
Couple Corruptor ATOs bought, re-listed for them for sale this morning.
I sold the Decimation Acc/End/Rech I had hanging around for 30 million, and some more Corruptor ATOs, as well as buying a ton of them at the 22 million price point (which was about the going rate)! (Like 15 O_o So 300+ million in ATOs...)
Got on an ITF while doing Tips, really milking this task Force being the weekly for all I can, but gotta remember to finish my Tips! (Unlike the last time where I forgot...) The Task Force was smooth, nothing interesting to report.
Finished my Tips and bought a Miracle +Recovery for my build, take that endurance issues!
Also hit 46!
Quote:
See this thread for one solution. People store influence in the market by placing bids of up to 1,999,999,999 on something that (they assume) will never actually be for sale -- level 53 IOs, for an example. But please note that this takes up a marketing slot (the person in that thread has 53 slots though).|
Originally Posted by OneFrigidWitch
Question! What the heck do you do with inf? Right now I have a ton of inf, + junk on the market. How do I do this multi-bil stuff? I have only a single marketing char.
|
I just use multiple marketeers, and buy stuff to store in my base.
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
Day 16: Friday August 3, 2012
Sold an Obliteration Acc/Dam/Rech and another Corruptor ATO, hoping the weekend brings more movement on the ATO front, since I have a bunch clogging my slots.
No instant Purple this morning... Makes me sad that I can't spend 160 million influence instantly...
Nothing sold today, got on an ITF right as I logged in, pushing for 50!
Hit 47 on the ITF, nothing much else happenning, and sold a few Corruptor ATOs. I got kinda greedy with one of the Purples, listed it for 301 mill, and highest its sold as Ive seen is 300, I hope it sells...
While I completed Tips a bunch more Corruptor ATOs sold.
Bought and crafted my Numinas Unique, with Hero Merits, still having endurance issues, but I'm not surprised considering how fast all my attacks feel.
Did an Admiral Sutter that was weird, we had to repeat the second mission, but once we did it worked. Good group overall, had a bubbler so I was way passed Def soft capped. Gave me a sense of how things would feel once my build was more filled-out, and it felt gooooood.
We did finish, eventually, took 2 hours though, but almost hit 48!
Also got my 9th Vet Token while playing tonight.
Day 17: Saturday August 4, 2012
Trying to hit 50, hard. Ran a Penny Yin, ran Sara Moore (should have run Citadel, since that would have gotten me TF commander), which was long, and painful, and ended with just four of us from the starting eight...
Got a Citadel in the evening which got me 50 and TF Commander!
"76 hours on patrol", wow that's fast from what I remember!
So I angle to unlock my Alpha and Honoree is, as usual, a huge pain, probably because my build is lacking on the defensive side right now. Racked up 124k in debt, but then that doesnt matter any more, except for badges.
Unlocked my Alpha, did Tips, spent a Hero Merit on a roll which didnt get me any of the recipes I wanted for my build. Going to have to change my focus to buy them one at a time with Hero Merits, or buy them off the market, this rolling thing just hasn't worked out for me yet...
Realised my build has a wasted power in Tactics, well at least wasted for me, gonna have to do something about that, havent figured out what yet.
Did a bunch today, called it a night.
So I've got a question to you readers, since today is the last day (calendar wise) of my 30 day challenge, would you rather I continue to release a day or two at a time, or dump everything quickly?
I've already decided not to do things like this if I do it again. My notes are totally inadequate to write details about what's happened on a day two weeks ago, which means either better notes, or posting day-of kind of things.
Day 18: Sunday August 5, 2012
Now that the little bit of hitting 50 is out of the way, I can get on with filling out the build and hoarding influence!
Nothings selling, so instead I run around and get the Atlas Medallion! Yay more endurance!
Instant bought a Coercive Persuasion Confuse for 160 million, not quite the preference of 150 million, which breaks down in to almost two recipes for each sale, but the margin is still better for the time investment.
Converted it to an Unbreakable Constraint Hold/Rech
Which converted to a Fortunata Hypnosis Sleep/End
Which converted to a Gravitational Anchor Chance to Hold
Which converted to an Unbreakable Constraint Hold/Rech
Which converted to an Armageddon Dam/Rech/Acc
Why couldnt it have done that the first time it was an Unbreakable Constraint? :P I posted it for 276 million, and I have a low-ball bid on another purple up for 140 mill, and 206 liquid, and about 12 other things selling, lots (for me) tied up in inventory right now, but it feels like I'm getting into a marketing groove.
Purchased the Crushing Impacts for my build, crafted and slotted. Gotta start with something right? Decided to roll some randoms from the Merit Vendor, just because random rolls have to work out sometimes, and got:
Numinas Convalescence: Heal/Rech
Obliteration: Chance for Smashing
Numinas Convalescence: End/Heal/Rech
Performance Shifter: Rech/Acc
Stupefy: Acc/Stun/Rech
Celerity: +Stealth
Obliteration: Acc/Dam/Rech/End
Performance Shifter: Rech/Acc
Positrons Blast: Dam/Acc/End
Makos Bite: Dam/Rech
Makos Bite: Chance for Leathal
Nothing really fits my build, though the Stupefy would have worked if I hadnt already gotten one of them.
I dont really want to tie up slots just on bids for my own build, since Im no where close to the amount I need to finish it, but I really do need some more holes filled, especially on the defensive side.
Since I spent all my merits, Ive gone back to soloing all the story arcs through Ouro in order, except for the one with all the Preatorean AVs, did that one to get closer to Portal Jockey, just two more AVs on that now! My reading skill bites me on one mission where I stealth to the objective, only to find out its a Defeat All, wont fall for that again this story arc! (No promises about the next arc though...)
Got on an ITF in hopes that I can get some shards out of it. Got 6 shards out of it, which is good, I guess, but the component isnt one for my alpha slot, so it wasnt the greatest one to run. I then participated in a Mothership Raid, and got the typical ton of Vanguard Merits, crafted a Spiritual Alpha out of the ITF Component, Vanguard Merit Componet, and 4 Shards, not exactly what I want to make, but costs less shards to get and lets me in to team incarnate content without crazy negative level shifts.
Bought a Hero Merit, and rolled random again, got:
Glimpse of the Abyss: Chance for Psionic Damage
Luck of the Gambler: Def/End/Rech
Luck of the Gambler: +7.5%
Lockdown: Chance for +2 Mag
Lockdown: Chance for +2 Mag
Which is alright, one +7.5%, but nothing else I need from the rare table.
Logged for the night.
Quote:
I always like the day-at-a-time post for things like this, but if it's going to feel like a chore for you, then dump away :-)
|
Originally Posted by Skifer Tomme
So I've got a question to you readers, since today is the last day (calendar wise) of my 30 day challenge, would you rather I continue to release a day or two at a time, or dump everything quickly?
|
Arc#314490: Zombie Ninja Pirates!
Defiant @Grouchybeast
Death is part of my attack chain.
Quote:
It's two weeks to late for this but oh well. When trying to Incarnate a new level 50 I always try to get a few BAF/Lambda trials in. In addition to iXP and other goodies you can convert Astral Merits to shards at a 1:1 ratio which makes BAF and Lambda some of the best sources of Shards for making Alpha Slot Abilities (4-5 on most runs). In general I use Thread based components for the Tier 2 alpha (because shard based uncommons are expensive and I normally have plenty of thread based uncommons) but for the Tier 1, 3 and 4 Alpha I'll just burn Astrals to Shards supplemented by any shards/components I pick up while running WSTs for my Notices.
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Originally Posted by Skifer Tomme
Got on an ITF in hopes that I can get some shards out of it. Got 6 shards out of it, which is good, I guess, but the component isn’t one for my alpha slot, so it wasn’t the greatest one to run. I then participated in a Mothership Raid, and got the typical ton of Vanguard Merits, crafted a Spiritual Alpha out of the ITF Component, Vanguard Merit Componet, and 4 Shards, not exactly what I want to make, but costs less shards to get and lets me in to team incarnate content without crazy negative level shifts.
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Day 19: Monday August 6, 2012
The weekend really slowed down the sales of Corruptor ATOs, not sure why, it just did, but its picked up again, and Ive got 3 sold this morning and by later that day sold the Armageddon Dam/Rech/Acc. The market must be doing its fluctuation thing, nothing on the purple scene instant-buys for 165 million, so instead I put some bids in to sit for a while.
Did a few Trials, LAM, BAF, TPN and capped my defence at 164.38, which is crazy... Well I'm not sure that's capped defence, but the number in the Combat Attributes window changed colours, which on damage means capped, so I'll just assume. Also unlocked my Interface slot.
Monday night, gotta run my SSA! And since Im now an Incarnate, I get to run it more for the additional things! Weeeeee!
Ran my Tips, Morality Mission, got a Hero Merit, Converted, bought a LotG 7.5 at 30.
Pretty much empty on Merits though, gonna have to run some Arcs/TFs to beef that up!
Nothing Sold/Bought while playing, 70 million in liquid, 4 bids in for 150 million each about 700 million up for sale, guess Im not doing THAT bad.
and one last tip-
never pull ANYTHING before a 2xp weekend.
You're about to see a flood of demand that will sweep away every overpriced bit of junk the market has to offer.
I have a bet with myself on whether my field crafter will be able to empty out three base storage bins of leve 20 damages & endmods for over 1m each. =P
Though I will just say, I pulled those things down two weeks ago to list them for less, and my own gut instinct would be to let things ride over a 2XP weekend, but it was still far away at that point.
And I'm just a little bit beyond that now.