Electric Blast suggestion


ClawsandEffect

 

Posted

One of the biggest complaints about Electric Blast is that it has no third single target blast. Most of the proposed fixes involve removing Voltaic Sentinel or Zapp to make room for one, or other similar cottage rule breaking ideas.

Instead of trying to make drastic changes, why not just tweak one of the existing powers?

Boost the damage on Tesla Cage, to be similar to other third blasts.

Of course, things like endurance and recharge would likely have to be adjusted to keep it balanced, but since the Powers guys are working on blast sets right now, it's the perfect time to get an extra adjustment thrown in.


@Roderick

 

Posted

I think it may be getting better. I've heard it rumored at least for Defenders you will be able to fire very quick snipes (if you have enough +to hit) and that Nukes are going to become crashless.

If both of these are right then, the Snipe could move into the chain and help drastically to improve Electric.


 

Posted

The snipe can only be fired instantly if your ToHit is 22% or higher. That's impossible to maintain solo for any Blaster except /Devices, which means the snipe can't be worked into the attack chain for anything other than /Devices (for Blasters).

On top of that, the Snipe's endurance cost isn't changing, so firing the Snipe frequently will create endurance issues for all but the most optimized builds.

And every blast set (except those without Snipes) will be getting the same benefit added, so Electric will still be left behind.


@Roderick

 

Posted

It was mentioned that Voltaic Sentinel is being tweaked to make it more like a tier 3 blast.

What exactly that is going to entail was not mentioned.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
It was mentioned that Voltaic Sentinel is being tweaked to make it more like a tier 3 blast.

What exactly that is going to entail was not mentioned.
Really hope that isn't the case. Not a big fan of VS purely from a conceptual basis and making into Electrics T3 essentially makes it unskippable. Rather than updating VS into something that makes it a T3 blast, I'd rather we just have a proper T3 blast and do away with VS altogether. Make it something like a single target attack that has a 25% chance to jump to other nearby mobs (maximum of 4) for 50% additional damage. (numbers pulled from a hat, no idea at all whether this is over powered or not, literally just an idea)

Better thematically and sufficiently different from other blast T3s.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelRat View Post
Really hope that isn't the case. Not a big fan of VS purely from a conceptual basis and making into Electrics T3 essentially makes it unskippable. Rather than updating VS into something that makes it a T3 blast, I'd rather we just have a proper T3 blast and do away with VS altogether. Make it something like a single target attack that has a 25% chance to jump to other nearby mobs (maximum of 4) for 50% additional damage. (numbers pulled from a hat, no idea at all whether this is over powered or not, literally just an idea)

Better thematically and sufficiently different from other blast T3s.
And what do you tell the people who LIKE Voltaic Sentinel?

"Too bad. I don't like it, so you can't have it"?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Opinion / suggestion. Not a demand. Know the difference


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelRat View Post
Really hope that isn't the case. Not a big fan of VS purely from a conceptual basis and making into Electrics T3 essentially makes it unskippable. Rather than updating VS into something that makes it a T3 blast, I'd rather we just have a proper T3 blast and do away with VS altogether. Make it something like a single target attack that has a 25% chance to jump to other nearby mobs (maximum of 4) for 50% additional damage. (numbers pulled from a hat, no idea at all whether this is over powered or not, literally just an idea)

Better thematically and sufficiently different from other blast T3s.
Improving VS would be a good option, but I don't see them replacing VS with a boring T3 blast.

CoH is plagued with a ton of powersets that have very little difference from one powerset to the next. Battle Axe and War Mace were near carbon copies.

VS is a signature power for Electric Blast, even if a lot of people don't like it. Its a hard power to compute in an attack chain. It does its damage over a long period of time and often enemies maybe defeated. The animation time is also a little long.

That said VS is a different power from other attack sets. I want the power to stay. I would just like for the Devs to up the damage output for Electric Blast because in almost all normal situations, the Endurance Drain is a not an actual mitigation device and Electric Blast pays a good price in damage for that extra level of mitigation that really doesn't practically exist.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelRat View Post
Opinion / suggestion. Not a demand. Know the difference
I would suggest that if they implement your suggestion, it would negatively affect people who like VS. You should expect some level of displeasure to accompany a suggest to remove an exist power.

They also have the Cottage Rule to protect people from having a power removed right out from under them. So I don't expect them to implement your suggestion.

You're entitled to your opinions and suggestions, but know that others are also entitled to tell you they dislike your opinion or suggestion and also to shoot holes in your suggestion/opinion, so that the best solutions rise to the top.


 

Posted

I've always wanted an aoe (Static Discharge, Ball Lightning or Lighting Field) for Voltaic Sentinel. At they very east Short Circuit when VS finally crashed.

I'll take any buffs VS can get. Right now, I'm using VS as a minor build up for the Defiance +20 percent damage.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rejolt View Post
I've always wanted an aoe (Static Discharge, Ball Lightning or Lighting Field) for Voltaic Sentinel. At they very east Short Circuit when VS finally crashed.

I'll take any buffs VS can get. Right now, I'm using VS as a minor build up for the Defiance +20 percent damage.
I like the idea, but maybe put the Short Circuit when the VS is formed (Thematically the its pulling Electricity out of the Environment to make the VS). VS already has so much front loaded damage. Electric could use more damage AoE or Single Target.

Short Circuit isn't a ton of damage anyway (and it wouldn't have to be a full damage SC), but with the high recharge of VS, its not a power that could be used in a damage chain anyway.


 

Posted

Quote:
Most of the proposed fixes involve removing Voltaic Sentinel or Zapp to make room for one, or other similar cottage rule breaking ideas
My suggestion came largely from this. I've never liked VS and I usually just skip it. Honestly, no big deal. Given this though, I figured that if "most of the ideas to fix EB were to remove VS I'm obviously not the only one that doesn't like it, so I'd support that plan rather than giving Tesla Cage more damage.

I don't have a problem with people saying "I don't like your idea because....". I do have a problem with "what about the people that like it". They like it. I and others don't. On that basis alone, neither party is "right", and that's what this FEEDBACK forum is for. If most of the people provide feedback say they like VS but would like it tweaked, then I and my other VS-hating pals will have to lump it. If, however, there's a sufficiently large number of people that say "Actually, VS is a bit naff, can we have something else instead", then surely that provides feedback for the devs that it might need a different approach when evaluating the set as a whole.

Frankly, I can't believe I have to explain this to people.

If I'm completely honest, my biggest problem with VS is the look of the thing. It's just a Ball Lightning graphic used as a pet. Lame. Lazy. At least give me something that looks vaguely sentient. A mini version of a storm elemental for example would look miles better. Even an electrified Fluffy (Dark Servant from Dark Miasma) or Rock Golem from Earth Control. Anything would be better than a flying asterisk.


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Posted

I don't take VS because I find it nearly useless. It has to be summoned too frequently, and at BEST can fire 10 shots of my T1 blast. But I don't want it replaced. I want it fixed, so that it's useful. I know asking for a Gun Drone is too much, because it's a much lower level power, but I want it to be something better than a the Clockwork Connection power Penny Yin gives you.

I think buffing Tesla Cage is a fair place for improvement - look at Ice Blast. It gets the standard T1 and T2 blasts, a strong third ST blast (Bitter Ice Blast), a ST hold roughly equal to Tesla Cage (Freeze Ray) AND a ST hold roughly equal to what I'm suggesting Tesla Cage gets changed to (Bitter Freeze Ray).

So, why not buff BOTH Voltaic Sentinel AND Tesla Cage - two powers that aren't taken that often (in my experience, at least)? But I didn't make this thread about VS - I made it about TC, because I think that this change would be enough to push Electric Blast above the "doesn't suck" threshold.


@Roderick

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talionis View Post
I like the idea, but maybe put the Short Circuit when the VS is formed (Thematically the its pulling Electricity out of the Environment to make the VS). VS already has so much front loaded damage. Electric could use more damage AoE or Single Target.
I like VS, but I could go for this.

Alternately - and something I've suggested before - is to "backport" what almost every other electric set has, chaining, into 1-2 powers. VS is one possibility, Tesla cage another (think those kitschy "plasma balls," but holding a shuddering, twitching enemy inside.) The hold wouldn't chain, but it would cause damage to anything around it.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderick View Post
I don't take VS because I find it nearly useless. It has to be summoned too frequently, and at BEST can fire 10 shots of my T1 blast. But I don't want it replaced. I want it fixed, so that it's useful. I know asking for a Gun Drone is too much, because it's a much lower level power, but I want it to be something better than a the Clockwork Connection power Penny Yin gives you.

I think buffing Tesla Cage is a fair place for improvement - look at Ice Blast. It gets the standard T1 and T2 blasts, a strong third ST blast (Bitter Ice Blast), a ST hold roughly equal to Tesla Cage (Freeze Ray) AND a ST hold roughly equal to what I'm suggesting Tesla Cage gets changed to (Bitter Freeze Ray).

So, why not buff BOTH Voltaic Sentinel AND Tesla Cage - two powers that aren't taken that often (in my experience, at least)? But I didn't make this thread about VS - I made it about TC, because I think that this change would be enough to push Electric Blast above the "doesn't suck" threshold.
Power tier isn't really that much of a determining factor for performance/balance. If it were then Freezing Rain (Tier5 in Storm) wouldn't be slightly better than Sleet (Tier8 in Cold). Powers are balanced primarily on a set by set basis, rather than power vs power.

Feel free to ask for an "Electric Gun Drone" if you feel the set needs it. If the Devs likewise came to feel that it was needed, Gun Drone being a tier9 and VS being a Tier8 would be irrelevant. (Additional note: VS is also a Tier9 power for /Electric Assault Doms... and Electric Assault needs almost as much help as Electric Blast.)


Personally, I've always been in favor of just making Tesla Cage a 3rd blast a la Cosmic Burst. That may change depending on what all the Devs do with Electric Blast come beta, but until then I still support the idea.


@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
The hold wouldn't chain, but it would cause damage to anything around it.
Not very good idea. Then it wakes up all sleepers around it. 2 areas are good for elec but only really problematic power is voltaic sentinel.


Prunejuice is warriors drink.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by zachary_EU View Post
Not very good idea. Then it wakes up all sleepers around it. 2 areas are good for elec but only really problematic power is voltaic sentinel.
... so does ball lightning. And any other AOE. So what?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderick View Post
One of the biggest complaints about Electric Blast is that it has no third single target blast. Most of the proposed fixes involve removing Voltaic Sentinel or Zapp to make room for one, or other similar cottage rule breaking ideas.
I understand why some people think that Electric Blast not having a third single target blast is a "problem" that needs to be fixed. I'm certainly not going to sit here and try to claim that it's the "best" Blaster primary, at least from a DPS point of view.

But I've been playing with an Electric Blaster (without VS) for over seven years now and have had good fun with it regardless. Again I realize that on paper there are plenty of other Blaster powersets that can deliver a better DPS than my Electric alt can - I myself have other Blaster alts that can do that. But somehow regardless of the pure numbers it still hasn't ruined the basic FUN I've had with my Electric Blaster. *shrugs*

I have nothing against suggestions like this. I'm just pointing out that some people don't always need to have fully min/maxed characters to still have fun. Besides the changes that are coming in I24 (crashless nukes and faster snipes) are going to more than make up for any concerns I currently have with the Blaster AT in general and even Electric in particular.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelRat View Post
I don't have a problem with people saying "I don't like your idea because....". I do have a problem with "what about the people that like it". They like it. I and others don't. On that basis alone, neither party is "right", and that's what this FEEDBACK forum is for.
Sure, both are right. Saying 'I like it' is only wrong if you're lying when you really don't or saying you don't when you really do.

What's 'wrong' is when, just because one doesn't like it, they feel others should go out of their way to change it. Why make a suggestion that deprives others of something they enjoy? It'd be different if there was absolutely no alternative, but you'd be misleading if you say that in this situation.

If your goal is not to deprive others of their likes (in this case, Voltaic Sentinel) but improving the Elec blast set, there are *many* avenues to do that without messing with the others in the least.

Heck, the OP has a long standing suggestion that lots of Elec Blast players agree wouldn't be obtrusive. Removing a power to replace another is like trying to knock down a wall to unlock the front door...when you could have climbed through the window, used the back door, slid down the chimney, called a locksmith or any variety of other options that get the same results *without* damaging the house some people actually like.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by zachary_EU View Post
Not very good idea. Then it wakes up all sleepers around it. 2 areas are good for elec but only really problematic power is voltaic sentinel.
I don't understand why sleepers are a problem? Electric Blast doesn't have a sleep in the set. Very few power sets that it can be paired with have a sleep ability. In that rare case you could avoid one of the powers.

Also VS is on a long timer. The long timer also keeps the extra AoE from being a part of an attack chain.

Truthfully, I'm just spit balling ideas. The real problem is that Electric is not on par with other sets for Damage Per Second for Single targets or AoE. This is the problem we'd like the Dev's to fix. The way in which they do it is less important.

The mitigation from Endurance Drain is binary (all or nothing) and because of its less valuable because by the time most enemies can be drained of endurance other sets would just have killed the enemies. So Endurance Drain is a feature that is of very small value.


 

Posted

Point:

If DPS were the only thing that made a set worth playing, only Fire blasters would ever have existed in the first place.

This may surprise some people, but many people who play and enjoy Electric Blast simply do not care at all that their power set is viewed as bad or underperforming by people on the forums.

My wife is a good example of that. Her main is an E3 blaster, and she does not care in the slightest that you think her character is weak.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
Point:

If DPS were the only thing that made a set worth playing, only Fire blasters would ever have existed in the first place.

This may surprise some people, but many people who play and enjoy Electric Blast simply do not care at all that their power set is viewed as bad or underperforming by people on the forums.

My wife is a good example of that. Her main is an E3 blaster, and she does not care in the slightest that you think her character is weak.
Let me point out that to some people this is just an utterly foreign concept. And not just with Electric blast. I was asked fairly recently if I... let me find the quote:

Quote:
Do you purposefully take powers/powersets that are weaker or have minimal uses?
The idea I took what fit a concept or what seemed fun - or just that I hadn't played before - seemed to be completely unable to be understood.


 

Posted

I'd like Tesla to be an actual attack.. though that goes for all the low damage mez effects to being actual attacks.

For VS I'd like it to decide what it wants to be..
If its a quasi pet then it needs to have its mitigation and damage potential to be drastically increased since all the argo gets dumped on the player that uses the power. This could be done in a number of ways, don't care how.

If it becomes an actual pet... then treat it like such and have it deal with its own argo as every other pet in the game does. I don't care if its like Phant Armor and invulnerable, Siggy and unhealable, or like any of the other pets.

Currently its like having the worst of both worlds. It doesn't offer mitigation, it dumps all the argo (and uncontrollable argo at that) onto the hero/villain using the power, and on top of that it does poor single target damage. It needs to decide if it wants to be a quasi pet like (tornado, rain of fire, lightning storm) or an actual pet like (siggy, stoney, fluffy).


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
Point:

If DPS were the only thing that made a set worth playing, only Fire blasters would ever have existed in the first place.

This may surprise some people, but many people who play and enjoy Electric Blast simply do not care at all that their power set is viewed as bad or underperforming by people on the forums.

My wife is a good example of that. Her main is an E3 blaster, and she does not care in the slightest that you think her character is weak.
Well I did play a Electric Blast defender and the damage was pretty miserable. I really did notice the difference, especially solo when I changed the toon to a Rad blast defender instead.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talionis View Post
Well I did play a Electric Blast defender and the damage was pretty miserable. I really did notice the difference, especially solo when I changed the toon to a Rad blast defender instead.
Funny. I, personally, can't stand Rad Blast at all. Elec is oodles more fun, and my Kin/Elec will move from broken to some new level of awesome with i24. Instasnipe to let me kill bosses easier, with S/L/E softcap and saturated Fulcrum Shift?

Me like.