Planning for I24: Ar/dev or ar/energy?

DarkBlaster_NA · 07-27-2012 12:22 PM

Hey, I've been mostly a melee or a control player with some corruptors, so i don't really have any experience with anything that isn't dark fire or DP,

I know that boost range and AR's cones can be good for murdering packs, But i am interested with devices and it's easy to obtain instant-snipe and field operative.

Which would have better synergy? I'm really interested in both combos

Moonlighter · 07-27-2012 01:07 PM

When in doubt I end up playing both.

Moonlighter

50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD

First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563

DarkBlaster_NA · 07-27-2012 03:19 PM

I have a thing where i can't stand to play the same primary or secondary unless it's on a different AT, So i only want to go with one. The only exception was really i went from a fire/kin to a fire time, But fire is a pretty basic set with not much gimmicks outside of "KILL UNTIL IT DIES", so it's easier to get used to.

Lets just settle on a comparison then.

plainguy · 07-27-2012 07:04 PM

I'm a bit confused with what Energy is going to get. So I'm shy to say anything in that direction.

BUT

From what I understand about Device, Cloaking device get a buff which only helps. I use Cloaking Device suppressed to obtain range defense cap. Slotting Target Drone and putting in some slot enhancers into it makes snipe perma only limited to the recharge of the snipe attack. Which is 3.5 seconds I think.

I just respeced my AR Device for expected upcoming changes. End result regardless my build is much better then it was regardless. The new changes will make it much more fun.

Though I am NOT dismissing Energy. From my lack of knowledge about Energy ATM I see it as a more clicky power set to obtain perma snipe. Where as Device it is always on.

Anyone want to post some Energy changes expected ?

1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives

Micro_Huge · 07-27-2012 07:21 PM

According to Mids builder sniper rifle does an additional 30ish dmg per hit with targeting drone active.

266.2 base dmg no drone
299.7 base dmg drone

Another_Fan · 07-27-2012 08:39 PM

Ar/En hands down.

You get the permanent snipe.
You get buildup.
You get boost range so you don't have to worry about short cones.
You have power boost so if you build for defense its very easy to do it well.
You get the endurance discount which will let you run the best AR chains which devices won't

If you like taking time and laying mine fields though /dev is for you.

plainguy · 07-28-2012 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another_Fan

Ar/En hands down.

You get the permanent snipe.
You get buildup.
You get boost range so you don't have to worry about short cones.
You have power boost so if you build for defense its very easy to do it well.
You get the endurance discount which will let you run the best AR chains which devices won't

If you like taking time and laying mine fields though /dev is for you.

Do you know what exactly is changing in Energy to make those comments.

Your saying Perma snipe but is that based on a click method or always on ?

Power boost atm does boost your defenses for 7 seconds I think. Is that what your saying or is there something different coming for it ?

Admittedly I do not have test installed on my Mac and am a bit hesitant to install it.

1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives

Another_Fan · 07-28-2012 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plainguy

Do you know what exactly is changing in Energy to make those comments.

Why do you assume that I24 changes are needed for those comments to be valid ? Energy currently does things that Devices does not this is still true in I24.

Quote:

Your saying Perma snipe but is that based on a click method or always on ?

Click Method

Quote:

Power boost atm does boost your defenses for 7 seconds I think. Is that what your saying or is there something different coming for it ?

15 seconds per click

Moonlighter · 07-28-2012 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plainguy

Do you know what exactly is changing in Energy to make those comments.

Your saying Perma snipe but is that based on a click method or always on ?

Power boost atm does boost your defenses for 7 seconds I think. Is that what your saying or is there something different coming for it ?

Admittedly I do not have test installed on my Mac and am a bit hesitant to install it.

You can make Power Boost permanent.

This not only boosts your defense and stuns, but come the next issue (assuming nothing changes - a BIG assumption) you get 22.6 ToHit from Tactics + Karma ToHit + Power Boost to use fast snipe.

Moonlighter

50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD

First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563

Nethergoat · 07-28-2012 01:42 PM

as a longtime ar/dev player I'm happy with the upcoming changes.

that said, I don't see them being enough by themselves to bring /dev up to par.
it's still an old set with a couple of really good powers and a bunch of crummy ones.

They need to massively improve Time Bomb & re-think Trip Mines, plus Taser & Gun Drone could both do with some buffing. The instant casting time makes Drone worth taking now, but it's still a 'meh' power.

The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

plainguy · 07-29-2012 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another_Fan

Why do you assume that I24 changes are needed for those comments to be valid ?

Whoa killer, you took that the totally wrong way and it reflects in the rest of your post.

If I'm gonna attack your statement(s), trust me I won't be so subtle it. If anything you should know by now I don't beat around the bush.

I was hoping to get some info on energy changes in i24. But I went back and gathered some info together from various threads from the coffee talks and such.

Overall I've been playing around with some of my energy secondary builds. The best I think that can be done is get Range defense cap because much of everything else will be needed to get power boost perma.

1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives

Issen · 07-29-2012 02:54 AM

If you ask me? AR/Dev. Targeting Drone is great for other things besides just the +22%, and Dev itself gets a number of nice toys to play with. Caltrops is an AMAZING mitigation tool, and the upcoming Field Operative look good.

Not to say Energy isn't amazing either, but I feel AR benefits more from Devices.

Sir Hextor · 07-29-2012 04:53 AM

My planned AR/EM Blaster (waiting until the final changes before getting him rolling). Depending on the chages, I may pull slots out of Power Thrust and put into Conserve Power (the new Energize). The near perma Power Boost (.88 seconds downtime with Agility, 2.29 seconds without) goes on auto, the rest will be click as they come up. Basically, it's busier managing each click but I'm quite excited to give him a go.

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.96
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Natural Blaster
Primary Power Set: Assault Rifle
Secondary Power Set: Energy Manipulation
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Burst -- Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(3), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), Thundr-Acc/Dmg(15)
Level 1: Power Thrust -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 2: Buckshot -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(9), Posi-Dmg/Rng(9), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11), Posi-Dam%(11)
Level 4: Slug -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(13), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5)
Level 6: M30 Grenade -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(17), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(17), Posi-Dmg/Rng(19), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19)
Level 8: Build Up -- AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(27), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(29), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx(29), AdjTgt-Rchg(33)
Level 10: Bone Smasher -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(33)
Level 12: Sniper Rifle -- Mantic-Dam%(A), Mantic-Acc/Dmg(15), Mantic-Dmg/EndRdx(21), Mantic-Dmg/ActRdx/Rchg(34), Mantic-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(36)
Level 16: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(21)
Level 18: Flamethrower -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/Rng(36), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(37), Posi-Dam%(37), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23)
Level 20: Tactics -- Rec'dRet-ToHit(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(23), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx(25), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 22: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25)
Level 24: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Ksmt-ToHit+(34), Krma-ResKB(48)
Level 26: Ignite -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/Rng(40), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(40), Posi-Dam%(42), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42)
Level 28: Power Boost -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 30: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Full Auto -- SBlastersW-Rchg/Dmg%(A), SBlastersW-Dmg/Rchg(33), SBlastersW-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), SBlastersW-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), SBlastersW-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36)
Level 35: Boost Range -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 38: Total Focus -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(39), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(40), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46)
Level 41: Scorpion Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(43), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(45), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 44: Summon Spiderlings -- C'Arms-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(A), C'Arms-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), C'Arms-Acc/Rchg(45), C'Arms-Acc/Dmg(46)
Level 47: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(50), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(48), RctvArm-EndRdx(48)
Level 49: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(50), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(27), EndMod-I(39)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Defiance
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clrty-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
Level 0: Marshal
Level 0: High Pain Threshold
Level 0: Invader
------------

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Granite Agent · 07-29-2012 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Hextor

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Add an immob for ignite. Slot the - KB IO into buckshot or M30.

More procs in cones.

fewer melee attacks?

plainguy · 07-29-2012 12:31 PM

@Sir Hextor

Pretty cool

I do agree it will be clicky because your going to have to click hasten every time it is up. Unless you reverse it and just go hasten and click boost before the snipe. Unfortunately flipping back and forth in my comments I can see without Power boost on perma your defenses drop down.

But there is one sort of big issue I see. I don't know if slot enhancers will help out. That issue is your Endurance recovery. Your below the 2 point value. I know on my AR Device at one point I was at 1.87 and it was a SUPER pain in the BUTT. I was a blue junkie. Cardiac Alpha was my total and complete Savior. I would have tossed my toon in the garbage if it wasn't for Cardiac.

Your at 1.96, I honestly don't know if that is good or bad or okay. But I thought I would bring it up. I guess Energize will help out here. Lets see what happens. EDIT - I noticed you already have slot enhancers in Stamina. I would guess Energize will be your Savior here.

Personally I'm not a fan of this whole click to perma. But it is, what it is. I have a Archery EM and a Beam EM so I will eventually have to suck it up and do it myself.

I am considering Range cap instead of S/L as I would try to hover blast keeping out of melee as much as possible. I also am considering perma range cap and s/l cap with power boost. Power Boost will not be perma though with about 5 seconds of down time. But with aim and build up insta snipe will be available when needed.

1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives

Granite Agent · 07-29-2012 12:51 PM

Questions I have on AR/EM (and I mothballed my 50 a while back) are:

1) Softcap (S/L or Ranged) or go Fire APP for Bonfire (with KD proc)?
2) Mez protect ... worth it? Have to pick up Acro.
3) AOEs: Take all 3 - Buckshot, M30, Flamethrower? -KB proc in M30? (if no Bonfire above) ... if not, what to skip?
4) Ignite ... really only useful with an immob ... and then only on hard targest ...is it worth it? Pick up an APP immob?
5) Skip Burst or Slug? (one slots -RES achilles but I heard that's getting nerfed in i24 to only fire rarely, so prob not worth it. .. looks like the two attacks have equivalent DPS?).
4) Manuevers or Assault to unlock Tactics -- both seem pretty low on a Blaster

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I mothballed my guy because even with Full Auto up every 16 seconds, he just didn't feel "strong" -- my other toons seemed to put out better AOE and/or single-target damage. Open to suggestions.

Olliande · 07-30-2012 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Hextor

My planned AR/EM Blaster (waiting until the final changes before getting him rolling). Depending on the chages, I may pull slots out of Power Thrust and put into Conserve Power (the new Energize). The near perma Power Boost (.88 seconds downtime with Agility, 2.29 seconds without) goes on auto, the rest will be click as they come up. Basically, it's busier managing each click but I'm quite excited to give him a go.

Question from a noob: the recharge time of a power begin A) when i click the power or B) when the power is on (after the activation time).

Exemple:
A) I click power boost at time 0. Recharge time of 15.88s begin. After 1.17s Power boost is ON for 15s. At 15,88 s i relaunch Power boost at 16.17 ancient Power Boost is Off. At 17.05 Power Boost is On.
Power Boost is Off during 0.88 s

B) I click Power Boost. Power Boost is On after 1.17s ( Time 0).After 15s Power Boost is Off. After 15.88s, i relaunch Power Boost. At 17.05 POwer Boost is On.
Power Boost is Off during 2.05s

I ask it for the def bonus.

Sir Hextor · 07-30-2012 10:09 AM

A click every ~2 mins isn't too bad for me. I already do it on my Fire/Shield Scrapper because Mez prot on auto is more important. OF course, I would love if we could auto multiple powers, but it is what it is. You're of course right about the end usage vs. recovery. I'm not super thrilled with it as it is, but I'm holding out to see what happens with Energize before I make any changes to the build.

Adeon Hawkwood · 07-30-2012 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olliande

Question from a noob: the recharge time of a power begin A) when i click the power or B) when the power is on (after the activation time).

The power starts recharging on the server tick after power activation completes. This means that you need to increase the activation time to the ArcanaTime value:
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/ArcanaTime

Granite Agent · 07-30-2012 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Granite Agent

Questions I have on AR/EM (and I mothballed my 50 a while back) are:

1) Softcap (S/L or Ranged) or go Fire APP for Bonfire (with KD proc)?
2) Mez protect ... worth it? Have to pick up Acro.
3) AOEs: Take all 3 - Buckshot, M30, Flamethrower? -KB proc in M30? (if no Bonfire above) ... if not, what to skip?
4) Ignite ... really only useful with an immob ... and then only on hard targest ...is it worth it? Pick up an APP immob?
5) Skip Burst or Slug? (one slots -RES achilles but I heard that's getting nerfed in i24 to only fire rarely, so prob not worth it. .. looks like the two attacks have equivalent DPS?).
4) Manuevers or Assault to unlock Tactics -- both seem pretty low on a Blaster

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I mothballed my guy because even with Full Auto up every 16 seconds, he just didn't feel "strong" -- my other toons seemed to put out better AOE and/or single-target damage. Open to suggestions.

Wow I got buried under recharge questions. Any thoughts on the above?

DarkBlaster_NA · 07-30-2012 05:49 PM

Suppose while this thread is still kicking that i might add my AR/dev build from my other thread.

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Olliande · 07-31-2012 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Granite Agent

Wow I got buried under recharge questions. Any thoughts on the above?

Recharge question are important : Power boost is Off 2,05s for a cycle of 17,05 s : your def is 12% of the time less than desired.

Granite Agent · 07-31-2012 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olliande

Recharge question are important : Power boost is Off 2,05s for a cycle of 17,05 s : your def is 12% of the time less than desired.

The build i posted soft-caps S/L without powerboost.

ChaosAngelGeno · 07-31-2012 12:06 PM

What do we know about Energize for /Nrg Blasters? Does it heal? Is it enhanceable?

Arcanaville · 07-31-2012 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaosAngelGeno

What do we know about Energize for /Nrg Blasters? Does it heal? Is it enhanceable?

1. It will have a shorter recharge than conserve power does now, and probably similar to or possibly shorter than melee Energize.

2. It will most likely have a higher +regen than melee Energize. This +regen will be perma-able and almost certainly not stackable.

3. It will most likely have a lower heal than melee Energize.

4. It will have an endurance discount comparable to melee Energize.

5. As with most +regen in blaster sustain powers, it will likely be half-enhanceable.

6. Its unclear whether the heal will be fully or half enhanceable, although my bet is that it will end up being half-enhanceable also.

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