Thanks for talking to us, Paragon.
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-07-27 10:40 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
What might be a nice idea is if Paragon could work with someone like Eurogamer.net who regularly host Cosplay and Fan meet and greets in the EU, maybe throw a few bundles of goodies over the pond and maybe run a direct live feed from the summits so we can put some ideas across and maybe ask a few questions to devs also. Timezone differences wouldn't be an issue for me as would be prepared to lose some sleep to get some interaction with the devs on various issues. Also I believe a strong incentive at a meet and greet like this would encourage more of us to turn up for them (Re:Brighton of past).
Too many 50's to list here's a few you may know.
Slazenger, Area51, Area53, Area54, Erruption, Mind Plague, Thresher, Sheath, Broadside, Debt
Quote:
Again, without Paragon creating an EU division in the first place you'd have no pleasant experience to lament the passing of.|
Originally Posted by Slazenger
The question was asked to thank Paragon, I do not feel it is acceptable for me to do so and explained why, that was all. |
I'm clearly not going to change your mind, I just felt like pointing out your feeling of resentment have no real foundation. Someone did something you enjoyed, they weren't able to keep doing it, so now you dislike them?
That's no sort of philosophy to live by.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Paragon Studios didn't create the EU division. They ended it.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Again, without Paragon creating an EU division in the first place you'd have no pleasant experience to lament the passing of.
I'm clearly not going to change your mind, I just felt like pointing out your feeling of resentment have no real foundation. Someone did something you enjoyed, they weren't able to keep doing it, so now you dislike them? That's no sort of philosophy to live by. |
Too many 50's to list here's a few you may know.
Slazenger, Area51, Area53, Area54, Erruption, Mind Plague, Thresher, Sheath, Broadside, Debt
Quote:
So you think it just sprang from the forehead of Zeus, or something?|
Originally Posted by Slazenger
Paragon Studios didn't create the EU division. They ended it.
|
Interesting.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quote:
Nope, but I believe Cryptic studios created the EU division.
|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
So you think it just sprang from the forehead of Zeus, or something?
Interesting. |
Too many 50's to list here's a few you may know.
Slazenger, Area51, Area53, Area54, Erruption, Mind Plague, Thresher, Sheath, Broadside, Debt
Quote:
The original post expressed gratitude for Paragon's communication. The community team here has nothing to do with past business decisions. In fact, Paragon as a whole studio has very little to do with NCSoft's decision to cut the EU offices/servers/whatever. Paragon might have recommended one thing or another, but at the end of the day it wasn't their decision to make. When Cryptic sold City of Heroes, Paragon took over (to use your phrase) the development and day-to-day management of the game; Paragon did not take over ownership of it.|
Originally Posted by Slazenger
The original question posed was how thankful they were for paragon, the person I replied to requested that all mmo's should follow suit, I then stated 'no' as my experience has not been a good one since Paragon has taken over
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You're entitled to feel however you like, but do understand the facts here.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
 |
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Okay, now I see.|
Originally Posted by Slazenger
Nope, but I believe Cryptic studios created the EU division.
|
This is one of those pointless hair-splitting semantic arguments.
Enjoy nursing your grudge, it always works out so well for people.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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I stated that on the one time I felt the need to communicate with Paragon over a matter that I had a grievance with has still been unanswered (checks e-mails) a little over 10 months later.
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Originally Posted by Obitus
The original post expressed gratitude for Paragon's communication. The community team here has nothing to do with past business decisions. In fact, Paragon as a whole studio has very little to do with NCSoft's decision to cut the EU offices/servers/whatever. Paragon might have recommended one thing or another, but at the end of the day it wasn't their decision to make. When Cryptic sold City of Heroes, Paragon took over (to use your phrase) the development and day-to-day management of the game; Paragon did not take over ownership of it.
You're entitled to feel however you like, but do understand the facts here. |
Too many 50's to list here's a few you may know.
Slazenger, Area51, Area53, Area54, Erruption, Mind Plague, Thresher, Sheath, Broadside, Debt
Quote:
They did a live stream of the last player summit and when it came time for the players to vote on things like costume themes the live stream's chat channel was also counted. So even if you can't go to the summit you can still partially participate.
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Originally Posted by Slazenger
Meet and greets are big part of community relation's and cannot be dismissed, especially now when costume parts are being chosen at these events
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I absolutely agree, which is why we still support them in whatever way we are able too. For example, we've paid for the use of the net cafe for the past two events and provided pizza (I believe) and we are currently doing our level best to work with the organizers to support the meet up in some way this year. |
Originally Posted by Slazenger
We used to have Eu community mods that used to hold meet and greets and summits within the EU, since the likes of Bridger and Rockjaw have gone, the only meet and greets with the Eu are player organised only.
Meet and greets are big part of community relation's and cannot be dismissed, especially now when costume parts are being chosen at these events, I speak for myself when I feel excluded and bit distant from the community (hence why I tend to stick to my own server and not venture out) when this sort of thing happens. Having the choice later on at what you want them to look like is a bit of a P-Take when you haven't been allowed to determine what you want in the first place. |
While we don't have a Community team in Brighton anymore, the folks who work Brand (Marketing) put whatever resources they are able to towards supporting CoH Community events.
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| Also I have made various grievance reports regarding the global name change, and was clearly subjected to act of childishness to which since Freedom went live, I am still waiting for a response (I'm not holding my breath any longer). |
Having managed global Communities in the past, I recognize that there are many challenges to take into account. Most of them are things we can overcome, such as time zone differences, however some are much more difficult (international travel, etc.)
Trust me when I tell you that I would love to take a trip over to the U.K. to spend time with the E.U. Community. Each time I've been there it's been nothing but an amazing experience and I can only imagine how friendly and fun it would be to hang out with you all. That and you just can't get a good English Breakfast here in the states.
Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios
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Incorrect.|
Originally Posted by Slazenger
Nope, but I believe Cryptic studios created the EU division.
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That was NCSoft.
As in NCSoft Europe which is what they called that division if I remember correctly.
Much like they referred to the Seattle location as NCSoft West.
Much like they originally referred to Paragon Studios as NCSoft NorCal (NCNC or NC²).
That division was deemed by NCSoft to be unprofitable so it was closed.
The game studio now known as Paragon Studios had nothing to do with the decision to close the NCSoft Europe division.
That decision was made by NCSoft's corporate offices.
Much like the decisions for how to handle naming collisions was made by the NCSoft database administrators, not the Paragon Studios game designers or OCR team.
Your blame is misplaced.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
Quote:
As has been previously noted, we do live stream the Player Summits. During each panel, the moderators make certain to take input from the chat channel from those watching along at home. |
Originally Posted by Slazenger
What might be a nice idea is if Paragon could work with someone like Eurogamer.net who regularly host Cosplay and Fan meet and greets in the EU, maybe throw a few bundles of goodies over the pond and maybe run a direct live feed from the summits so we can put some ideas across and maybe ask a few questions to devs also. Timezone differences wouldn't be an issue for me as would be prepared to lose some sleep to get some interaction with the devs on various issues. Also I believe a strong incentive at a meet and greet like this would encourage more of us to turn up for them (Re:Brighton of past).
|
Thank you for the additional suggestions. I'm always looking for ways to improve upon the presentation and am very hopeful that with the next Summit we'll find even more ways to integrate participation from our Twitch viewers.
Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios
Quote:
Was this an issue having to do with something the CS team was handling? |
Originally Posted by Slazenger
I stated that on the one time I felt the need to communicate with Paragon over a matter that I had a grievance with has still been unanswered (checks e-mails) a little over 10 months later.
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Something the Accounts or Billing team was handling?
Something the Tech Support team was handling?
Guess what all of those teams have in common?
They aren't part of Paragon Studios.
They are part of NCSoft and are, to the best of my knowledge, still handled out of the NCSoft offices in Austin, TX.
Since you mentioned checking your email for a response it seems more like something those departments handle. The OCR team usually replies by PM from my experiece over the past 8 plus years.
Was it something to do with how the forums work? That's the Seattle web team that handles the configurations and management of the forum software.
Was it something to do with the CoH website? Again, that's the Seattle web team.
Was it something to do with forum moderation? The OCR team handles that. I have yet to ask about a forum moderation issue and not get some type of response. Even when no response was required I've gotten an acknowledgement of my PM.
Was it something to do with game design and/or implementation? That's the Dev team and they don't always answer every PM they get. They'd have no time to work on the game if they did.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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I think the contests which are limited to North America also annoy people in the EU. Generally not the Community Team's fault, but when has that mattered?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Out of curiosity, what current Community Team policies favor the North American playerbase over the EU? Meet and Greets not withstanding.
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Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie
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Zwillinger, I appreciate the live feed's they are excellent way to keep us somewhat involved, but what I would prefer is a live feed to the EU via a summit of our own. I pretty much enjoy the company of others when breaking news happens and would rather watch a big game with others rather than sit at home and watch it by myself, if you get my drift. New issue news surrounded by friends with a good atmosphere can't be beat.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
As has been previously noted, we do live stream the Player Summits. During each panel, the moderators make certain to take input from the chat channel from those watching along at home.
Thank you for the additional suggestions. I'm always looking for ways to improve upon the presentation and am very hopeful that with the next Summit we'll find even more ways to integrate participation from our Twitch viewers. |
Too many 50's to list here's a few you may know.
Slazenger, Area51, Area53, Area54, Erruption, Mind Plague, Thresher, Sheath, Broadside, Debt
Quote:
Sometimes Zwillinger, I can get things wrong and start blaming people when it's others fault, but I get frustrated when things seem obvious to me and nothing get's done about it, as I got no response from support I tend to fire off at the Community Reps because I at least get a response from you guys, so I apologise for that.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
While I can certainly understand how this would cause frustration, unfortunately it's not something that's within the influence of the Community Relations team.
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Too many 50's to list here's a few you may know.
Slazenger, Area51, Area53, Area54, Erruption, Mind Plague, Thresher, Sheath, Broadside, Debt
Quote:
So you want a live feed just to the EU? Something that would shut out the other players? Very nice of you. As it is, ANYONE with internet access can view the live feeds from the Players Summit and submit questions or comments.|
Originally Posted by Slazenger
Zwillinger, I appreciate the live feed's they are excellent way to keep us somewhat involved, but what I would prefer is a live feed to the EU via a summit of our own. I pretty much enjoy the company of others when breaking news happens and would rather watch a big game with others rather than sit at home and watch it by myself, if you get my drift. New issue news surrounded by friends with a good atmosphere can't be beat.
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But you want to have something going as an EU Summit so that other players are there? Then organize an EU event when there is a Player Summit planned. Have computers and monitors set up so that people can interact with the Player Summit while surrounded by friends.
If you contact Paragon Studios and let them know you are organizing something along that line I'm pretty sure they'll find a way to participate and may even find some schwag to ship over.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
Quote:
I never said I was excluding others from live feed's, but I put my neck on the line from a potential torrent of abuse, others had the chance to chip in and say I agree or what not and that they would like that sort of thing in their area too, but no-one did. I based my argument on my own personal preferences.|
Originally Posted by Texas Justice
So you want a live feed just to the EU? Something that would shut out the other players? Very nice of you. As it is, ANYONE with internet access can view the live feeds from the Players Summit and submit questions or comments.
But you want to have something going as an EU Summit so that other players are there? Then organize an EU event when there is a Player Summit planned. Have computers and monitors set up so that people can interact with the Player Summit while surrounded by friends. If you contact Paragon Studios and let them know you are organizing something along that line I'm pretty sure they'll find a way to participate and may even find some schwag to ship over. |
So what I should have done is included everyone else in my argument without even asking their permission?
Too many 50's to list here's a few you may know.
Slazenger, Area51, Area53, Area54, Erruption, Mind Plague, Thresher, Sheath, Broadside, Debt
Quote:
The thing is, we already have a live feed going on from an event they are running that is open to all players (both the event itself and the live feed), and you even acknowledged that it's a good way to keep players involved.|
Originally Posted by Slazenger
I never said I was excluding others from live feed's, but I put my neck on the line from a potential torrent of abuse, others had the chance to chip in and say I agree or what not and that they would like that sort of thing in their area too, but no-one did. I based my argument on my own personal preferences.
So what I should have done is included everyone else in my argument without even asking their permission? |
So when you ask for a live feed specifically for an EU summit it sounds as if you don't want others to be able to participate in it. Or you want something catering to your specific desires instead of the CoH community as a whole.
Many players have in the past asked for events in more areas and we've been given answers as to why that doesn't happen and isn't really likely to happen. Since nothing appears to have happened that might change those reasons it seems pointless to keep bringing it up over and over and over.
I've attended every Bay Area event that I've been able to, and will in the future, even though it's not something that is easy for me to do financially. I know others that have traveled to these events as well that have had to make difficult financial decisions in order to go. I've known of players coming in from New Zealand, Australia and even Great Britain for those events.
When NCSoft had events in Austin I attended those as it was a short 3-hour drive to get there (in Texas driving terms a 3-hour drive is a short to medium length trip). I know of others that made longer drives than that, some that came from out-of-state as well as those that were closer to or in Austin.
When NCSoft stopped having events in Austin (or at least they stopped being advertised) I didn't blame Paragon Studios since they weren't the ones making the decision.
I also don't blame any other decisions I don't agree with made by NCSoft on Paragon Studios. I prefer to put the blame where it belongs, just as I do in the rest of my life.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
Ok, I feel the need to just jump in with a couple comments about the "other game" mentioned in the first post, as I am just as much of a fan of it as I am of CoH.
1.) Their Devs are in Korea. The MMO in question is one of the most popular, if not THE most popular, MMO of it's kind in Korea. The game itself, over the past 3 years, has been changed significantly to cater to the Western market.
2.) Their "Double XP server" is just that. NCWest didn't lower the XP on the normal servers. That was from the developers on the other side of the world. The reason: when their patch 3.0 was released in North America ( a good 9 months after it was released in Korea, Russia, China, etc. ) they boosted the XP gain on all of the live NA servers to almost double.
Their goal was to allow NA players to get as close to the where the Asian players were. Since they had the game 9 months before we did, they figured the XP boost on all of the NA servers was the best way to do this. Once again, this was the call of the Developers in Korea, not the call of the Community Staff in NA (who seem to take the blame for it anyway.)
Since they decided we were "caught up", they lowered the XP gains to what they were before 3.0. So now, XP rates in NA, Korea, etc. are all alligned.
Their goal, now that another company bought the publishing rights in Europe, was to release upcoming patches for the NA version within a month of a release in Korea. Since NCsoft no longer has to translate the game into German, French, and English they only need to translate to English which is an easier step. (Look at the EU version of that game. It's been 6 months since 3.0 was released in NA. In EU, they are just now finalizing the beta test to publish 3.0 in French and German... six months later.)
Since that game was designed as a PvPvE (full world PVP) game and that many NA players left because they would like to only PVE, they created a "Fast Track" server for PVE players. This server is a Double XP boost of the pre-3.0 boosted XP rates. Which means you are earning the same XP on the "Fast Track" server as you were on the other servers after they were boosted for 3.0 content... while avoiding PVP 100%.
Now, in 3.1, the XP rates have been returned to their "international standard" (it's true because the same is going to happen with the Gameforge run EU 3.0 version of the game.) Sure, the communication could have been better between Korea and NCWest, as NCWest had no clue on the returned XP rates. But the XP rate does not change what the game is. It's just easier to be spoonfed then complain when someone takes the spoon out of your mouth and tells you that you are a big boy now and that you can feed yourself.
The biggest problem I have seen with "that game" is the lack of beta testing the NA version. Since the game is already bug-fixed in Korea due to their early release, they don't see it necessary to beta test in NA anymore. So some issues fall through the cracks like what was seen in last weeks 3.1 patch. Some switches were not turned on and NCWest had to wait a week before they were allowed to flip them on.
I believe the other game is just as good as CoH and their developers, albeit without any connection to the NA playerbase, are just as dedicated to their product as Paragon is to theirs. But it's also like comparing apples to oranges.
Personally, I feel that the Paragon Staff, coupled with an amazing playerbase, is what sets City of Heroes aside from the rest. While I like the other game and play it just as much as I do CoH, the community and the interaction of the CoH Developers and staff is what every other game should be envious of.
pohsyb: so of all people you must be most excited about the veats
Arachnos Commander: actually, I am
pohsyb: I mean you kinda were one already anyways ^_^
Arachnos Commander:
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Zwil, I believe over there they just call it "breakfast." :P|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
That and you just can't get a good English Breakfast here in the states.
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Though when I went to Germany for the Role Play Convention, I found the "American Breakfast" hilarious.
pohsyb: so of all people you must be most excited about the veats
Arachnos Commander: actually, I am
pohsyb: I mean you kinda were one already anyways ^_^
Arachnos Commander:
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NCsoft created the EU division. It was NCsoft Europe, not Cryptic Europe.|
Originally Posted by Slazenger
Nope, but I believe Cryptic studios created the EU division.
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Then NCsoft closed it.
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Sorry, but the promo page for patch 3.0 literally says "A permanent increase in XP!"|
Originally Posted by Commander
Now, in 3.1, the XP rates have been returned to their "international standard" (it's true because the same is going to happen with the Gameforge run EU 3.0 version of the game.) Sure, the communication could have been better between Korea and NCWest, as NCWest had no clue on the returned XP rates. But the XP rate does not change what the game is. It's just easier to be spoonfed then complain when someone takes the spoon out of your mouth and tells you that you are a big boy now and that you can feed yourself.
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Don't know what Korea's definition of 'permanent' is, but I can tell you right now that it's wrong.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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Agreed. All I have heard from NA, EU and former staff is that there is something always lost in the translation. While they may have said permanent and that's how it was taken, it could have been they said it was permanent from 3.0 till 3.1.|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Sorry, but the promo page for patch 3.0 literally says "A permanent increase in XP!"
Don't know what Korea's definition of 'permanent' is, but I can tell you right now that it's wrong. |
Getting the actual info is near impossible. The staff is limited as to what they can say and the only answers available are, "Hey, we're just the messengers. We just say what Korea allows us to say. We don't always get the correct info as everything is subject to change."
pohsyb: so of all people you must be most excited about the veats
Arachnos Commander: actually, I am
pohsyb: I mean you kinda were one already anyways ^_^
Arachnos Commander:
While unfortunate, I don't see what you expect them to do here.
They tried to have a self-financing EU division and it didn't work.
C'est la vie.
Rather than complain about the failure of the venture, feel fortunate you had the opportunity to belong to that community in the first place. If they hadn't made that attempt you'd have nothing to complain about.
The question was asked to thank Paragon, I do not feel it is acceptable for me to do so and explained why, that was all.
Sorry if people may find my posts a bit offensive or unforgiven but I have a annoying trait of having a memory like an elephant, and apparently it is annoying.
Too many 50's to list here's a few you may know.
Slazenger, Area51, Area53, Area54, Erruption, Mind Plague, Thresher, Sheath, Broadside, Debt